Bishop SC Johnson

[citizen]

Sister Perez,

After the crucifiction the Son rose again.
1) After the resurrection he referred to Himself as a brother of ours. He told Mary to go tell HIS brethren. (The Father is NOT our brother).
2) He told the sister 'do not touch me because I have not ascended to MY FATHER'
3) He told her to tell them 'I ascend to MY FATHER, your Father and MY GOD.

[warrior]

Please show the scripture that says God Wore the Body back to heaven. That is my first time ever hearing that before now. Please.

[Steve Epley]

Please show the scripture that says God Wore the Body back to heaven. That is my first time ever hearing that before now. Please.

Acts 1:9-11.

[warrior]

Elder Epley,

That scriptures mentions nothing about God wear the Jesus body to heaven. Please clarify.

[sis_perez]

# One Warrior, you never answered did God lie when he said he didnt know no other God. If you did answer you know that it would shoot your 2 God belief to pieces and make you look pretty bad.
As far as God wearing that body back, well God raised that body and I will speak in very small terms and just maybe you can catch on......he was taken up. That body that he was in, then came out of so it could die, and then in 3 days he raised it up, he glorified and that is the body that God was recieved up into heaven with.

[sis_perez]

GOD did not raise no son. The sons life ended. He shed his blood. His work was done. God raised that BODY. Why would God say there would be no God formed after him , then have another God with him. That would make God a liar.

[sis_perez]

Warrior, are not supposed to ignore any scripture. I dont know if you have a pastor or not, but you ought to know something about " rightly dividing the Word of truth." The bible say one thing over here and it says another thing over here and I have to agree with Jesus Christ who is God Almighty- that " Great is the Mystery." If you would consider the language of the Bible, you might start seeing a little different.

[sis_perez]

Just like people just cant see that if you have a husband or wife and get married to someone else while they are alive, people cannot see what the bible says about it. Now that is real plain. There is nothing too mysterious about that as is this Son of God in heaven now business.

[sis_perez]

Citizen, he went back to what he was. Are you clarifying that there are 2 Gods in heaven? Now the bible dont say " let the son of God be true and every man a Liar." . It does say let "GOD" be true and every man a liar. So was God lying when he said there would be no God formed after him? Or is there a son of God in heaven now and you are truth and the light???

[citizen]

GOD did not raise no son. The sons life ended. He shed his blood. His work was done. God raised that BODY...



1 Thess 1:10 The saints SHOULD be waiting for the Son to come back from heaven, according to Apostle Paul.
And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

Eph 1:20
Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised a HIM from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

2 Tim 2:8
Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel

Heb 13:20
Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant

1 Pet 1:3 (Our hope is that we will be raised from the dead like the man Christ Jesus was raised from the dead)
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

[warrior]

TSis. Perez, the scripture say that on the Third day The SON Was raised from the dead.

There is no belief in two Gods. I believe in one ONE God. That has already been explained several times.

Now, what scriptures do you have that say NO SON OF GOD IN HEAVEN NOW? You haven't shown any yet. I have shown you scriptures that specifically say he is on the right side of the father.

Please show me your scriptures. I beg you.

[Steve Epley]

The problem is very simple the lack of understanding concerning the Godhead, this is not meant to belittle.

When the Son was upon the earth there were NOT two Gods and now the Son is in Heaven there are NOT two Gods.

[sis_perez]

If the son is in heaven, and he is God, then where is the Father? This makes 2. God clearly says there would be no God formed after him.

[sis_perez]

Warrior, do you have that exact scripture that says that "the Son" rose? I cant find it at the moment.

[sis_perez]

So Warrior, then do you believe that Jesus Christ is God which is the same Lord that was talking in the old tesitment?
You too Steve? If the son is in heaven now, then I count two and that would not make us all on the same page. As Warrior said, and the Bible says, he is sitting on the right hand of God. So if Jesus is sittling on the right hand of God like the Bible does say, then what does the Bible call the son? And what is the father called. You just may have something here.

[sis_perez]

But Steve, like Warrior says, the bibles says that the son is sitting on the right hand of the father. Who are they? What are they called? Can you explain this?

[sis_perez]

If the son is in Heaven Now, and there is only one Lord- He is the one that did say there would be no God formed after him, then Where is the Father? Hiding? He made the world, I believe and now what...what...no.no. no.. something is not adding up. Someone needs to clear this up.

[sis_perez]

Steve, you are right, lack of understand is the Key here. Someone needs to break down in the smallest possible form, what is going on with The Lord, God Almighty, that rock that was following people around called "Christ" , Jesus the Son, the Holy One, the I am , the "I am He" the Holy Ghost, Alpha, and Omega, the First and the Last, the one " which is, the one "which was" and I certainly need to figure out who is coming. The son must have died for nothing. Great is the Mystery.

[Steve Epley]

So Warrior, then do you believe that Jesus Christ is God which is the same Lord that was talking in the old tesitment?
You too Steve? If the son is in heaven now, then I count two and that would not make us all on the same page. As Warrior said, and the Bible says, he is sitting on the right hand of God. So if Jesus is sittling on the right hand of God like the Bible does say, then what does the Bible call the son? And what is the father called. You just may have something here.

When the Son was on the earth was there Two Gods?

[warrior]

The mystery of the Godhead has already been explained several times. I guess we will continue to discuss what has already been established as truth.

[sis_perez]

Steve, so hold a minute here. You believe there is one God in Heaven now, and he is the only God, which is the son. Is this right?

[sis_perez]

TSis. Perez, the scripture say that on the Third day The SON Was raised from the dead.

There is no belief in two Gods. I believe in one ONE God. That has already been explained several times.

Now, what scriptures do you have that say NO SON OF GOD IN HEAVEN NOW? You haven't shown any yet. I have shown you scriptures that specifically say he is on the right side of the father.

Please show me your scriptures. I beg you.

Warrior, what you are saying is really confusing. You said you believe in one God, and the scripture specifically says that he is on the right side of the father. So, Jesus Christ, the son is the only God you believe in. Correct me if I am wrong. And so, then who is the Father?

[sis_perez]

God said there was no God formed before him and their would be none formed after him. How could there be 2 Gods when that was God on the Earth? He was in the world, the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. So when was the one that MADE the World IN the World?? If they knew that was God they would not have crucified him.
Everyone is looking at the flesh and not at what was everlasting that came out of that Body so that it could die......

[citizen]

God said there was no God formed before him and their would be none formed after him. How could there be 2 Gods when that was God on the Earth? He was in the world, the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. So when was the one that MADE the World IN the World?? ......

Do you believe the God that made the world - was ever in the world?



If they knew that was God they would not have crucified him......

I dont think anyone would have laid a hand on him IF they knew who it was among them.



Everyone is looking at the flesh and not at what was everlasting that came out of that Body so that it could die....

It was miraculous that the flesh that God did not allow the flesh to see corruption. David prophysied about it in the Old Testament. The flesh was crucified and lay in the grave for 3 days and was raised again. Hallelujah!
The Son was crucified and lay in the grave for 3 days and was raised again. Hallelujah!

[warrior]

Warrior, what you are saying is really confusing. You said you believe in one God, and the scripture specifically says that he is on the right side of the father. So, Jesus Christ, the son is the only God you believe in. Correct me if I am wrong. And so, then who is the Father?

I am sorry that you are confused. I am not. Please refer to all of the explanations of the Godhead to help you get a better understanding. It has been explained more than one time. Once again, I believe in one God. Not two or three, but one.

[warrior]

Do you believe the God that made the world - was ever in the world?





I dont think anyone would have laid a hand on him IF they knew who it was among them.





It was miraculous that the flesh that God did not allow the flesh to see corruption. David prophysied about it in the Old Testament. The flesh was crucified and lay in the grave for 3 days and was raised again. Hallelujah!
The Son was crucified and lay in the grave for 3 days and was raised again. Hallelujah!

To add on. He rose on the third day, ascended into heaven and is now sitting on the right hand side of the father making intercession for us. As clearly stated in the scriptures.

[sis_perez]

Yes you believe in one God so you say. Everyone keeps saying the son rose. I say the son did not rise. God Raised a "BODY" or shall I say that temple. His life was taken. Maybe to get you to see my side, there is something about "what was " that is No more. He said I go to the father and ye see me no more. Yet they saw him. There is something about that body that "ROSE" that is no more. So what is it? The son was born and died. We know this right?? There is also the something we are dealing with that had no beginning of Days or End of Life. Now Didnt the son's life end? What was it about the son that said " Ye see me no more?" From the Death on the Cross to God raising that body, There was a change made.- Great is the Mystery.

[warrior]

Sis. Perez.

You have said a lot without one scipture to support any of your theories. YOU HAVE NO SCRIPTURES to prove anything.

That settles it all. The Bible said it and we repreated it. Show Bible, Sister Perez

[warrior]

I beg you to please show scriptures for any of this. Please!

[sis_perez]

If you believe there is one God, why do you keep mentioning the son? His life ended. If he is the one that is suppsed to come, and God knows all things, then he should know when he is coming and the son that is supposed to be up there sitting on the right hand and makeing these intersessions for us, does not know this.
Warrior do you believe the son was in the Beginning too?

[sis_perez]

Oh I have scripture but you only believe parts of the bible. God said Before him there was no God formed and there wouldnt be any formed after him. Now we have a son up there on the right hand. And you gave bible to support that, but why ignore the fact the God said he didnt know no other God?

[warrior]

Please show the scripture that supports your theories.

[sis_perez]

John 16:10- ...Of Righteousness, because I go to the Father and ye see me no More.
Yet They saw him again because John 20: 19-20 says Then were the Disciples glad when they seen the "LORD."

[sis_perez]

So again I ask, what was it that would be no more?

[sis_perez]

Warrior, Rev. 1:7-says, Behold HE cometh with clouds, and every eyes shall see HIM, and they which also pierced HIM: and all the kindreds of the Earth shall wail because of HIM, even so Amen. Rev 1:8 says I am Aplha and Omega, the beginning and the end, saith the LORD, which is, and which WAS, and which is to come, the Almighty!!

So that "which was" seems to be referring to something that is "no more", which goes right along with John 16:10! There was a change made. Somethng was diffenent from the death of the cross to God raising that Body. Right hand signifies Power. So what is it?

[warrior]

John 16:10- ...Of Righteousness, because I go to the Father and ye see me no More.
Yet They saw him again because John 20: 19-20 says Then were the Disciples glad when they seen the "LORD."


How does that contradict that Jesus is on the right side of the father?

[sis_perez]

Warrior, that is making 2 Gods. There is only one God Remember? If the son is up there with the father, then the father ought to know that he is up there. He said there was none else beside him. So I guess we take Jesus is on the right side of the Father and Ignore the fact that God says there is none else but he. So somewhere along the line, this "Right Side" and "Right Hand" Means something that you may not be understanding. It has something to do with Power and Authority.

[warrior]

I am not making two or three Gods. The Bible is crystal clear where the Son is. You and I both know it.

[warrior]

Besides, you have been gone a real long time. I just knew you would have come back with an answer to how that contradicts the scriptures that say that the Son is on the right side of the father.

So, let's hear it.

[sis_perez]

Wait. Dont get it twisted. Just because I was gone means nothing. I just dont have time to be on here all the time. Anyway, Is that ALL that the Bible Says? That the son is on the right side of the father? Is it? The bible does not contridict itself. Like I said before, If the son is up there with the Father- How come the father is Denying it? He said there would be no God formed before him and no God formed after him. His body of Flesh and blood that he called SON was formed right?? So I guess that means God lied. We cant take only parts of the bible. We have to take it all, but it needs to be rightly divided. There is no scripture that says, Jesus Christ is the son of God "NOW. The bible says "No man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the son of Man which is in heaven. So the only one that can be in heaven is the one that came from heaven. Did the son come from Heaven? It is funny that you still REFUSE to answer "Did God lie when he said he didnt know no other God. WHY WONT YOU ANSWER THAT? He is ALPHA- that means First, Beginning, right- he also say he is the "Which was" -Ring a bell? So how can he be alpha and the Which was- which is no more? Like I said before, there is no "Was" No "Son" of God in Heaven now. If it is then you are silently inwardly calling God a liar because he said there would be no God formed after him. And you ought to keep in mind that God calls things which be not as though they actually are. So you better see what you gonna do about God saying PLAINLY that he dont know no other God and about him saying that there would be no God formed after him. I could actually almost agree with you if God didnt say this. But he said it and I dont believe that if the son was up there with God, God would coldly deny it. The devil really Got you. Do you have a Pastor? If you do and he is teaching this it is a real shame.

[sis_perez]

I am not making two or three Gods. The Bible is crystal clear where the Son is. You and I both know it.

How do you make ONE out of Son..............................on the right hand of the Father. Sounds like to me that Father is on one side and son on the other side. How many? Dont tell me you cant add either. Who is up there? We know the son died, and yet when something dies, it is no more, and considered something that "WAS" but .........since he is up there with the father, he cant be alone, yet you say you are not making two or three. You need to clear that up. You seem to have all the power. Who is up there the Father or the Son. You said you are not making 2 or 3, but if someone is somewhere with someone, that sounds like how many? One? This seems to be your philosophy.

[warrior]

The Godhead has already been explained. The scriptures have been presented, and I am tired of talking about the obvious. What other topics would you like to discuss?

[sis_perez]

I guess you would rather change the subject rather than than to call God a liar. He said he didnt know no other God and it is a SHAME that you cant say the same thing. You cant answer. That look mighty bad. You said the son was up the WITH the father, the Father who created all things said there would be no God formed after him, he said he didnt know no other God, I told you from the Beginning that it was just one spirit operating. He is God Almighty. There is one God and he is nobodies son. God Almighty, who is Jesus Christ, who is also Alpha and Omega, who is the Lord, and the Rock, and the Father and he is the Amen, and the I am, and he is the one that is coming, the everlasting Father, he is the Prince of Peace, he is the Spirit, he is the word. he is the same one that was in the beginning, and he made all things, can I say he was "Manifested in the Flesh, shed his blood for us, then got rid of the flesh he had wrapped himself up in, glorifying that body, and then he let the devil confuse the carnal Mind.

[sis_perez]

I am not making two or three Gods. The Bible is crystal clear where the Son is. You and I both know it.

And by the way , in case you didnt know, the bible is crystal clear on where the son is. He is DEAD. He died on the Cross. That was the End of the Son. The End Everything about the son. God raised that body back up and Glorified it. The son is Gone. Now stop underestimating the Power of God.

[citizen]

And by the way , in case you didnt know, the bible is crystal clear on where the son is. He is DEAD. He died on the Cross. That was the End of the Son. The End Everything about the son. God raised that body back up and Glorified it. The son is Gone. Now stop underestimating the Power of God.

:uhoh Sis Perez, If you dont have the Son - you dont have the Father.

If Jesus was not raised - what are you getting baptizied for. And if Jesus is not sitting on the right hand of the Father or being a mediator for us - then what would make you think that you will literally be caught up to meet Jesus in the air at the end of time?

You need to have the gospel preached to you. Find a church - ANY church at this point. I think a Baptist would have a better grasp of the TRUTH of Jesus literally being raised from the dead than you do. And you say you are an apostolic. You evidently dont believe what the apostles wrote. Get rid of the label, it has not helped you.

Get to a church with a live pastor and forget picking through your list of tapes for spiritual food. You need to have the gospel preached to you in order for you to be saved.

[sis_perez]

Um excuse me.... I HAVE a live pastor. Living and breathing. Yet there is nothing wrong with tapes of Bishop Johnson. The son died and is NO MORE. So why not throw away the Bible? That man preached the truth whether you like it or not. That Garbage that you have been taught will NOT stand the Bible test. If your preacher (if you have one) is right, then why dont he certify what he preaches and prove to the world that there is a son in Heaven "NOW". Well he cant, wont , and dont back it it because he will be eaten ALIVE. You mean to tell me John looked in heaven and didnt see the Son on the right hand of the one he saw sitting on the throne? That is a laughing matter. And I dare you to tell me that the son is sitting on Gods throne.

[sis_perez]

And for your info--in case you dont know Citizen- A Body was raised. The one that raised that body was GOD ALMIGHTY. There was no blood in that body. I believe we all know that the blood was SHED. THe life of the son was in the Blood. Now that the blood is gone, "For the life of the flesh is in the blood...for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul"(Lev17:11) The son was flesh and Blood and we know that the bible says in I Corinthians 15:50 “Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.
God raised that body- Glorifying that body- making it a spiritual body- No Blood- And God is a spirit, and the spirit is nobodys son, which has no beginning of days, nor end of life, yet WE KNOW THAT THE SONS LIFE ENDED ON THE CROSS, in the beginning God said "Besides him there was no saviour" And we know the son was not back there...So who is our Savior, God or the Son of God? or did God Lie?

[sis_perez]

Jesus said, in John 2:19- destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up again. Right? Jesus said plainly right there that he would raise it.
Yet, the bible says...“God raised him up, loosing the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it” (Acts 2:24). How many raised that body? or is Jesus Christ God Almighty? And we do know in the Old testiment, in the time of Moses---when they were baptized in the clouds and in the sea...The bible says...And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 1 Cor 10:1-4 ... Was the son Back there? He is Jesus Christ right?????

[sis_perez]

"Henceforth know we no man after the flesh; yea, though we did know Christ after the flesh, yet NOW henceforth know we him NO MORE." -2 Corinthians 5:16 -- I told you before there was a change made and the son was gone. God has many titles. Rom. 4:17), "As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations, before Him Whom he believed, even God, Who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were."
You folks better figure God out real fast.

[sis_perez]

"Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for He hath visited and redeemed His people" (Luke 1:68).
Lord God of Isreal?? my, my, Now I know we have redemption through his blood and all but I really dont think the son was back there as God of Isreal. Did the son Bring the Children of Isreal out of Egypt?
I dare you to say that he did!!

[Steve Epley]

Um excuse me.... I HAVE a live pastor. Living and breathing. Yet there is nothing wrong with tapes of Bishop Johnson. The son died and is NO MORE. So why not throw away the Bible? That man preached the truth whether you like it or not. That Garbage that you have been taught will NOT stand the Bible test. If your preacher (if you have one) is right, then why dont he certify what he preaches and prove to the world that there is a son in Heaven "NOW". Well he cant, wont , and dont back it it because he will be eaten ALIVE. You mean to tell me John looked in heaven and didnt see the Son on the right hand of the one he saw sitting on the throne? That is a laughing matter. And I dare you to tell me that the son is sitting on Gods throne.

We have quoted verse after verse that teaches there is a Son of God in Heaven NOW and if hasn't meant anything to you.

[Steve Epley]

And for your info--in case you dont know Citizen- A Body was raised. The one that raised that body was GOD ALMIGHTY. There was no blood in that body. I believe we all know that the blood was SHED. THe life of the son was in the Blood. Now that the blood is gone, "For the life of the flesh is in the blood...for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul"(Lev17:11) The son was flesh and Blood and we know that the bible says in I Corinthians 15:50 “Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.
God raised that body- Glorifying that body- making it a spiritual body- No Blood- And God is a spirit, and the spirit is nobodys son, which has no beginning of days, nor end of life, yet WE KNOW THAT THE SONS LIFE ENDED ON THE CROSS, in the beginning God said "Besides him there was no saviour" And we know the son was not back there...So who is our Savior, God or the Son of God? or did God Lie?

Hebrews 4:14 says the Son passed INTO Heaven!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[citizen]

Um excuse me...The son died and is NO MORE...



Do you attend a mosque?

[warrior]

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

[warrior]

So, if the Son is truly gone and is no more, why do we baptize in the name of Jesus?

[warrior]

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

[warrior]

Acts 1:11
Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? THIS SAME JESUS which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

[citizen]

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.


The Son of Man - IS in heaven...NOT Was - in heaven?
Are you sure John taught this AFTER the Son died?.....That the "SON of MAN IS in heaven"......And the Son of Man was not left down here on earth? So the Son of Man was taken to heaven? And where might He be in heaven? So He came from the Father and He went back?...What kind of gospel were the apostles preaching back then?
And even after all these events - there is still ONE GOD?

I like it.

[warrior]

Bump for Sis. Perez.

[warrior]

Still waiting on Sis. Perez.

[Ilion]

Peace be unto you:

I am new to this post, but not to this debate.

First, a person cannot be saved until he/she believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. (1 John 3:23, 1 John 5:10-13)

However God's Word is interpreted, clearly if a person does not believe that Jesus is the Son of God, that person's salvation is in question, PERIOD! (John 3:18)

Secondly, the blind devotion to Bishop S.C. Johnson and his teachings exhibited by many of his adherents (John 5:43), in opposition to what is written in the Word of God, is extremely dangerous and unscriptural (I Cor. 3:5-10, I Cor. 4:6)

I am not a person that likes to step on people's toes, whatever they believe, but this should have been mentioned years ago. I believe that now souls are at stake. There is no time to play around with this subject.

[warrior]

Praise the name of the Lord Our God!

[sis_perez]

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
So he that came from heaven Was that the son?

[warrior]

Sister Perez, I am not sure what you are looking for or what else you want anyone to add to this, but everything has been explained and the Bible makes it clear. The word is clear that the Son was born of the virgin Mary, was crucified, rose on the third day and is now sitting on right side of the father. I can't offer you anything other than what the Bible says.

Perhaps you are looking for some type of technicality to try and trap someone into, but I can only offer you what the word of God says. I have nothing more.

[sis_perez]

Peace be unto you:

I am new to this post, but not to this debate.

First, a person cannot be saved until he/she believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. (1 John 3:23, 1 John 5:10-13)

However God's Word is interpreted, clearly if a person does not believe that Jesus is the Son of God, that person's salvation is in question, PERIOD! (John 3:18)

Secondly, the blind devotion to Bishop S.C. Johnson and his teachings exhibited by many of his adherents (John 5:43), in opposition to what is written in the Word of God, is extremely dangerous and unscriptural (I Cor. 3:5-10, I Cor. 4:6)

I am not a person that likes to step on people's toes, whatever they believe, but this should have been mentioned years ago. I believe that now souls are at stake. There is no time to play around with this subject.

Nice to meet u iion but you cant see what you just cant see. You have this qutoe above, First, a person cannot be saved until he/she believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. (1 John 3:23, 1 John 5:10-13) Those scriptures does not say what you have written. It speaks about believing on the Name. The bible says a lot of things, but where does it say after his death that he is the Son of God Now
When did the father become the son?? When? If the son is in heaven then who is he? Is he a God? God said there would be no God formed after him. God created that body that Mary birthed. Is God lying? The son died. The Father which is the eternal spirit Can't die. God is recorded as being many things including the son of God. If you can't see that Jesus Christ is God Almighty, then you must be carnal minded. Christ is nobodys son. He made a body and got in it. You cant see that. He calls himself the Son, the son of Man, he calls himself the savior. He is called many things. So who is the Savior? The Father (God) or your so called son (Jesus)? I still hold strong to Jesus Christ is God Almighty. No son came from heaven and no son rose.

[warrior]

Did you Say that " No Son Came From heaven and No Son Rose? " Are you crazy? You really need to open your Bible. It has said all of that. I am afraid for your soul, just like others have said.

You have created a doctrine totally of your own, and the Bible makes it clear that Jesus rose from the dead after he was crucified. THE BIBLE SAYS IT!

You on the other hand have no scriptures for anything you have said.
I pray for your soul. In the name of Jesus!

[warrior]

Sis. Perez, Bishop Johnson himself would rebuke you.

[warrior]

MATTHEW 28:2-7
2 And behold, there was a great earthquake; for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat on it.
3 His countenance was like lightning, and his clothing as white as snow.
4 And the guards shook for fear of him, and became like dead men.
5 But the angel answered and said to the women, "Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified.
6 "He is not here; for He is risen, as He said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.
7 "And go quickly and tell His disciples that He is risen from the dead, and indeed He is going before you into Galilee; there you will see Him. Behold, I have told you."

The huge stone was moved, and the Roman seal was broken, in spite of the guards at Jesus' tomb

[warrior]

ROMANS 1:4
4 and declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead,

[warrior]

1 Corinthians 15:14 (King James Version)

14And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

[citizen]

Paul wrote this to the Romans after the resurrection -
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved Romans 10:9


The last book of the Bible makes this statement about Jesus after His resurrection -
And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; Rev 2:18

[KWSS1976]

Which brings to question why would Acts 2:38 not be quoted here apparently this audiance (sp) that Romans 10:9 is addressing is not saved....

[Ilion]

KWSS1976:

Very good point; we seem to have completely left the very basic ideas of Christianity. That scripture along with numerous others point to the fact that you MUST believe that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, was risen from the dead (Romans 8:34 and I Corinthians 15:16-23)

I believe in our quest to denounce Trinitarians, Apostolics find themselves creating their own religious dogma, and because they do not understand the Godhead (see John 1:18 and John 16:28 and I Timothy 6:14) they are caught
opposing the Word of God and blaspheming the very Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, that they claim has saved them.

Frankly, this seems to have started because of debates with Trinitarians from years ago and neglecting to read, meditate in the Word, praying for the understanding. Without a clear understanding of the mystery (Ephesians 1:9, Colossians 2:2), as to how they are one (John 17), a person ends up as an infidel and unbeliever (John 12:39), even as the Jews then could not believe that Jesus Christ was the Son of God and that He rose from the dead (see 1 John 4:1-3).

[warrior]

Bump

[KWSS1976]

If those people in Romans were already saved like I always hear then nobody would be telling them how to be saved they were already saved no need in telling them....

[sis_perez]

Paul wrote this to the Romans after the resurrection -
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved Romans 10:9


The last book of the Bible makes this statement about Jesus after His resurrection -
And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; Rev 2:18


Jesus said, in John 2:19- destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up again. Right? Jesus said plainly right there that he would raise it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------HOW MANY RAISED THAT BODY? OR DID JESUS lie?

[sis_perez]

KWSS1976:

Very good point; we seem to have completely left the very basic ideas of Christianity. That scripture along with numerous others point to the fact that you MUST believe that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, was risen from the dead (Romans 8:34 and I Corinthians 15:16-23)

I believe in our quest to denounce Trinitarians, Apostolics find themselves creating their own religious dogma, and because they do not understand the Godhead (see John 1:18 and John 16:28 and I Timothy 6:14) they are caught
opposing the Word of God and blaspheming the very Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, that they claim has saved them.

Frankly, this seems to have started because of debates with Trinitarians from years ago and neglecting to read, meditate in the Word, praying for the understanding. Without a clear understanding of the mystery (Ephesians 1:9, Colossians 2:2), as to how they are one (John 17), a person ends up as an infidel and unbeliever (John 12:39), even as the Jews then could not believe that Jesus Christ was the Son of God and that He rose from the dead (see 1 John 4:1-3).



Isaiah 43:11- I, even I, am the Lord, and beside me there is no saviour. IS THIS THE SON TALKING here , which surly was the one who died to redeem us.

[sis_perez]

KWSS1976:

Very good point; we seem to have completely left the very basic ideas of Christianity. That scripture along with numerous others point to the fact that you MUST believe that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, was risen from the dead (Romans 8:34 and I Corinthians 15:16-23)

I believe in our quest to denounce Trinitarians, Apostolics find themselves creating their own religious dogma, and because they do not understand the Godhead (see John 1:18 and John 16:28 and I Timothy 6:14) they are caught
opposing the Word of God and blaspheming the very Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, that they claim has saved them.

Frankly, this seems to have started because of debates with Trinitarians from years ago and neglecting to read, meditate in the Word, praying for the understanding. Without a clear understanding of the mystery (Ephesians 1:9, Colossians 2:2), as to how they are one (John 17), a person ends up as an infidel and unbeliever (John 12:39), even as the Jews then could not believe that Jesus Christ was the Son of God and that He rose from the dead (see 1 John 4:1-3).


He was the son, this is true. But he died. But you cant see that God glorified that body? That was not flesh and blood that went back to heaven. We all know the son was flesh and blood. The son is Just another record of what he was. You cant seem to accept the fact of the same one spirit operating.
Jesus Christ is God Almighty, the everlasting father.

[sis_perez]

Paul wrote this to the Romans after the resurrection -
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved Romans 10:9


The last book of the Bible makes this statement about Jesus after His resurrection -
And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; Rev 2:18

Rev:1:14-His head and his hairs were white like wool:as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire, 15: and his feet like unto fine brass..17: Fear not; I am the first and the last.

Which walks right along with what I been saying all along. People wake up!!
The scripture does not condemn itself.

Isaiah 44:6- I am the first and I am the last; and beside me there Is NO GOD!!

Now is this the son talking? I keep saying it is Just the same spirit operating. Jesus Christ is God Almighty. He is the Lord. He is the only wise God. We call HIM a lot of things including the Son of Man. But people cant see the deep things of God because it is hid in him. God is a spirit!!! He is not flesh and bood. Correct? The son was flesh and Blood. Correct?

[Timmy]

Yeah. Wake up, people.

:blink

[Ilion]

Correct, he was flesh and blood; and it is true that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God", according to I Corintians 15:50. However, read the entire chapter of I Corinthians 15, where Paul explains how Jesus had to ascend in the flesh (John 20:17, Ephesians 4:10) and how he will return from heaven (Acts 1:11).

[Ilion]

Sis Perez:

Just take some time and think at some of these scriptures. Don't reply immediately.

It is true that God is our Saviour, as is mentioned in the New Testament (1 Timothy 1:1; Titus 3:4; Jude 1:25).

However, both Paul and Jude, with the rest of the apostles understood HOW God was the Saviour (Romans 5:10, Titus 3:6-8)

This is how God was the Saviour:
(2 Corinthians 5:18-20)
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself BY Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

What is important is that the Son of God is acknowledged:
John 5:23-- That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
I John 4:14-- And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

Is there a contradiction between I John 4:14, John 5:23 and the other scriptures mentioning God our Saviour? No, not at all. God saved us and reconciled us back unto himself THROUGH Jesus Christ.

Jesus said in John 10:30-- "I and my Father are one." You seem to be stating that they are the same, as you stated, "Jesus Christ is God Almighty, the everlasting father." That is not entirely true: Take a look at John 1:18, then at John 13:3. Jesus never stated at any time that he was altogether, completely God Almighty (Luke 18:18), but he did say:

(John 14:10) Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Where was God when Jesus Christ came to the earth (John 6:38-40)? The answer is easy: (John 5:36-39) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Sis. Perez, it is very easy to understand. Take time to read some of the scriptures that are mentioned. Don't think about me, or Warrior, or anyone else that you have debated with on this. Meditate on the scriptures (Psalms 119:48); dare to ask the Lord to give you the understanding (Proverbs 2:3-5), if you don't have the understanding already. This close to Jesus coming back for the church, it is worth the time to be sure (I Peter 1:10).

I truly would rather that God himself give you the revelation. I just invite you to rethink what you have been taught and compare it to scripture.

Peace be,

Ilion

[sis_perez]

Ilion,
How are you? Please do not think that I am being smart or anything on that manner. But I see and understand what you are saying, but I believe that the old and new testiments go hand in hand. The bible does not contradict itself. So please do not think that I am worring about what anyone thinks about how I think. I mean the word os the Word. For example, You have in your post that "I John 4:14-- And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world." now For example- we know that the son was sent to be the savior- So we all should agree that the son that was born of mary was not talking in Isaiah 43:10 -11 where it says "I am he: before me there was no God formed and, neither shall there be after me. I even I am the Lord; and beside me there is no savior. So is Jesus of the New Testiment the savior or is the Lord of the Old testiment the Savior? The bible is telling everybody all along that there is one. People can't see it because it is hid. I Believe that Jesus Christ is God Almighty. I mean which one are we supposed to Worship?

[sis_perez]

You asked where was God when Jesus Christ came to the earth. First I dont want to alarm you,or anyone that may read this, but the Son- that flesh in blood- never came from heaven. By Gods creating Power, the son started in the womb of Mary. The son did not come from Heaven. God came from heaven and he got into that body. Thats why he said the father dwelleth in him and I and my father are one and all that. Now-- let me ask you something- Do you have God in you? I dont know if you have been endued with Power from on high or not- But when we pray, we pray to the Father- which art in Heaven- Which is the Lords prayer--If I break it down in Simpler terms- I will say that God is everywhere. Why does everyone doubt the power of God. He fill the Heavens and the Earth. In Matt 16: 17 When Jesus questioned them, and Simon Peter answered that he was " The Christ" the son of the Livning God ( which he was the son at that time) Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jo-na: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my father which is in Heaven.--Yet the father was in him too. Right??? I do believe I am. This is also where folks seem to go Wrong when they say that an apostle can teach another apostle because- Jesus taught the apostles. Not seeing that it was the "Spirit" that was in him that opened their understanding.

[sis_perez]

You mentioned about the son being acknowledged. Acknowledged for what? Yes, He was the son at one time. But he always credited the father. He always prayed to the father. The Lord God Almighty is the one who saved the world. He is the Father. His name is Jesus. He made that body that he was in. He himself was the only thing pure enough to redeem us through his blood. The bible tells us God was manifested in the Flesh. When was that? I mean when was he in the world that made the world? and the world did not know him.
Ever heard of a son being called a father before he is born?? I told you before Jesus Chirist is God Almighty. The same spirit " Christ" that was in the son was the same spirit" Christ" that followed the people that were Baptised unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 1 Cor 10:4 for they drank of the Spiritual Rock that followed them; and that Rock was Christ.

[sis_perez]

The bible says "For the Life of the flesh IS in the Blood. Levit 17:11. The blood was shed. If the son is in Heaven then something aint right with the bible stating that "flesh and "blood" cannot inherit the kingdom of God", according to I Corintians 15:50. Why cant the people see that God raised his own body?? God is a spirit. That was a Glorified body. If there was blood in it, then I would agree to a son being up there. But the Blood was shed. The son was gone. God did all of this.

[sis_perez]

1 Month and I am the last one standing. Wrong cant win against right!

[Barb]

1 Month and I am the last one standing. Wrong cant win against right!

Oh please...

[warrior]

Sister, **edited by Admin** Folks have proved you wrong so many times and so many ways. Everyone is exhausted and has decided to pursue converstations more worthy of their time.

I asked several posts ago if you would like to discuss anything else. You never responded. What can I say.

[Tina]

Oh please...

Sis, Forgive me for adding to your post... but this emoticon is the perfect addition. :ohplease











:D

[Barb]

Sis, Forgive me for adding to your post... but this emoticon is the perfect addition. :ohplease

:D

Addition gratefully accepted...:thumbsup

[sis_perez]

Funny that since I have been checking and checking and there were no responses. Now that the fighter (ME) havent been in the ring, the amateurs wanna play.
Who Stopped Warrior from moving to another subject?
If you cant stand and fight till the end then What exactly do you have???
I stood. You fell. So, then what is the Next subject "Coward?"

[sis_perez]

Many Scriptures were brought but the way they were brought was contridicting other scriptures in the bible. The scriptures must be rightly divided. So Next subject plz. I am waiting............... hum dee dum............

[Barb]

1 Month and I am the last one standing. Wrong cant win against right!

Funny that since I have been checking and checking and there were no responses. Now that the fighter (ME) havent been in the ring, the amateurs wanna play.
Who Stopped Warrior from moving to another subject?
If you cant stand and fight till the end then What exactly do you have???
I stood. You fell. So, then what is the Next subject "Coward?"

Many Scriptures were brought but the way they were brought was contridicting other scriptures in the bible. The scriptures must be rightly divided. So Next subject plz. I am waiting............... hum dee dum............

Sister Perez... *sigh*

I promised myself I wouldn't post on this thread again, but alas, your posting is like the famous line..."Just when I thought I was OUT, they pull me back in!!"

Sistergirl, sorry to disillusion you, but you are NOT the last one standing. You are just the only one still interested in roaming about the same mountain.

Could it be there have not been any new responses because they have all been given?! When words fall on deaf ears, what is the point in continuing?!

Discussion is conversation, chat, dialogue, exchange...we can't have that with you, hon, because WE are all wrong and YOU are the only one right.

Well, take it from a woman who is almost 58 years old...NONE of us are right 24/7.

NONE of us have it all the answers.

NONE of us can say we are so 'all that and a bag of chips' that we have need of nothing.

Trust that I know whereof I speak. I came to the world of forums some years ago, back on FCF to be exact, with the notion that I was right and most were lost and undone...they had left the Mothership and were headed for the hot place.

I learned first, I was wrong!! Imagine that...!! Second, I learned that a differing opinion didn't equal lost and undone. And third, I learned that because there are REAL people sitting on the other side of the my monitor, I should knock off the condescending attitude.

We can ALL learn from someone else, gaining understanding we didn't have, and in turn, give and receive respect.

Respect goes along way, Sister P...to be blunt, you are condescending in your approach, and frankly, it turns people off...you can disagree without all of that.

In one post, you said to Warrior, I think it was, that you would 'talk' slow so she could understand, and there have been other things that have just not been nice.

And now we are "amateurs." :ohplease

Not sure if you were referring to me or Tina, who responded to my post, but either way, I can assure you, neither one of us is an amateur. :foottap

The Scriptures have been given, but YOU claim they are contradicting other Scriptures...WRONG!!

Rightly divide, yes, but do not EVER assume that one verse contradicts another...can't happen...won't happen!!

Let's just put an end to this...the bottom line:

Learn to disagree without being disagreeable.

Lay your preconceived opinions down, and ask the Lord, "What are you saying to me through your Word?!"

Don't be so quick to dismiss something presented just because it goes against what you have been taught...people are not infallible...teachers and students can get it wrong.

Finally, there ARE other threads of discussion on the forum. Check them out...you might have something worthwhile to add, AND you might learn something in the process.

I'm not sure if this will be received in the spirit in which it is given, but at least I tried, girl... :thumbsup

[warrior]

Beautifully said, Barb. I also think that some apostolics are indoctrinated that their particular congregation is the only one with the whole truth. If you are not with them or have THEIR particular revelation then you are hell bound. Sometimes the spirit of the pharisees take over us without even taking note of it. This foolishness is spewed from the pulpit time and time again. Folks can't help but adopt it as their personal philosophy because that is all they hear. I'm right and you are wrong. They are a the "FALSE CHURCH". They are not saved. We have the highest thing in the land. They need to come to us. We won't be going to them. The list just goes on.

Meanwhile the people are being puffed up with false pride. They can't communicate with others who are serving God cause they want to put them in hell first.

The apostolic church is an interesting place to be.

[Lawest]

I don't understand what the problem is if the are teaching the exact same thing Bishop Johnson did.

I know for a fact the Holy Temple teaches the same thing Bishop Johnson taught in spite of what Martha uses as an excuse. You have been programmed to believe this. Honey, God is able to help you.

These are all excuses not to pursue a pastor. These are all excues to declare everyone is wrong except for you and yours. These are all excuses!!!! God has never been that small that he would have a dead man preaching to an entire world, and only a small elite few get to hear the truth. Just think about the logic in that. God would that none perish and he would put the responsibility on a dead man to preach salvation to the millions of the world. That is why there is one body but many members to that one body.

Surely a God that can perform so many miracles can give someone other than a dead man the truth. Why do you put limits on God?

God is able to help you.I agree completely with your post, I know that Bishop S.C. Johnson was a true great man of God, But when many get to them point of saying that God has not ordained anyone else beside him, And they continue to play his tapes as a means to draw others into the body of Christ.........then that becomes the kind of worship that the Word warns us against, Worshiping the creature more than the creator.

Our late Apostle Bishop L. Hunter taught us through the Word that God has never left himself without a witness, And that the glorious light of the gospel will shine more and more unto the perfect day, And we all know (or at least we should) that that cannot happen through a man whom God has put to sleep.

Blessings!

[Lawest]

Everyone here seems to be well educated in the UPCI. I was wondering has anyone heard of Bishop SC Johnson and his apostolic teachings. He is considered one the main pioneers among apostolics in the African American community. If you know about him and his teachings, please share what you know. I am sure Bro. Sam knows about this gentleman. We have discussed him before.

Yes, he is well versed in apostolic history.Praise the Lord Warrior, As i am new to this forum and it is now 69 pages strong.........I am pretty certain the the discussion of who Bishop S.C. Johnson was is in full bloom by now.

But just to put my two cents in........to me Bishop SCJ was a man that God used to re-establish much of the original Apostles doctrine that had gradually been lost over the many centuries after the last of the former Apostles died out, And now that he has passed off the seen, God raised another man up to further the gospel by the name of Bishop Lenist Hunter, And after his death in 1991......Gode is still continuing his work through the mouth of successor Bishop Joe C. Tisdale as the glorious light of the gospel of Christ continues to shine more and more unto that perfect day of his returning.

Peace Be.

[Lawest]

Brother Strange, how could Johnson who had so much truth be filled with so much error. His one God doctrine is certainly on the money, but he was in error about so many other things. i.e. No son of God in heaven, marriage, apostolic standard of dress and many other issues. Please answer that question.

Personally, I feel like his hard heart didn't allow him to love all mankind. He was only conditioned to love those who were like him. That is problematic, because you can't get into heaven not loving your fellow man.I'm sure that Brother Strange has already answered you warrior, But I have a question of You.......how was he in error on the subject of marriage? and there is scripture to show that there is no son of God in heaven right NOW.

[BelievesJesus]

I did not know him personally but I've been to his church. I know his teachings. Though stout oneness, he believed if you were saved that you had to hear the gospel from his mouth.

Had other weird ideas too such as his ideas on marriage.
I am "under" Bishop S. C. Johnson. What weird ideas of marriage? I know his stand on it.

Hello Warrior. I see you still have your qualms about Bishop Johnson. *chuckles*

"Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind." ~ Romans 14:5 KJV

[Hoovie]

I am "under" Bishop S. C. Johnson. What weird ideas of marriage? I know his stand on it.


Hasn't Bishop S C Johnson passed away?

[BelievesJesus]

That doesn' surprise me. He was very dogmatic in his teachings. Those teachings still live on today and he's been dead some 60 years. The congregation hasn't moved beyond that yet. Those teachings include:

Women should wear cotton stockings
They should always wear a hat at all times
They are unable to relax or perm their hair
The hair must be kept in a net at all times
They can only wear blue, green, black, brown, grey and white
No long sleeves
No splits in skirts
No short sleeves
Shoes must be grey, blue and black( even on your wedding day)
Of course no pants on women
Men must wear solid color ties
Women must wear solid colored clothes

The list probably goes on, and I just don't know it.

Bishop Johnson passed away on February 22, 1961 which makes him deceased for 50 years.

Women should wear cotton stockings. Or stockings that are thick since every woman is not able to get cotton stockings. Tights are permissible. A sister in our church actually suggested the cotton stockings and not Bishop Johnson. He agreed. The cotton stockings today are not as thick as they use to be but still many wear them. There now other stockings thicker than the cotton stockings.

They should always wear a hat at all times. Not true. Hats (or headcoverings) are to be worn when the females pray and/or prophesy.

They are unable to relax or perm their hair. True. Wash, dry, style your hair simply and go on. No straightening of your hair like flat ironing/pressing either.

The hair must be kept in a net at all times. Not true. Females do not have to wear hairnets but some do.

They can only wear blue, green, black, brown, grey and white. The colors worn are black, white, any shade of gray, dark green, dark blue and dark brown. There are many variations of those colors too where one have many choices.

No long sleeves. No we are to wear long sleeves. We can roll our sleeves up if one is cleaning and whatnot. Sleeves do not have to be all the way down to your wrist. I believe 2-3" off is permissible.

No splits in skirts. No long splits. Most women suits have splits and many sisters wore suits.

Shoes must be grey, blue and black ( even on your wedding day). Not true. Black or brown leather shoes. Some job professions, one may have to wear white shoes. This is allowed and one must keep their shoes clean. I wore black shoes on my wedding day. I also know of a sinner who wore black shoes on her wedding day. She got married last month actually. What was the meaning of mentioning about wedding day?

Of course no pants on women. True nor shorts.

Males must wear solid color ties and females must wear solid colored clothes. True about the ties. Males AND females must wear solid colors.

I don't know why these "statues" for lack of better word so to speak bothers you. Warrior you complain about this on Good News and you brought it on over here. Alright, you don't believe what Bishop Johnson preached, move on. Why does his preachings irks you so? I don't let what others believe get to me, why do you? I just respond to this to clear a few things up. I am not going to "debate" over what Bishop Johnson preached and what was going on in his time or what's going on now. You go ahead and do your thing and leave those of Bishop Johnson alone. I am not starting anything about your beliefs. I am leaving you be.

[johnny44]

Were you also under Bishop Shelton?

[warrior]

BelievesJesus,

I'm going to say that is certainly not the truth. People of your fold are always challenging the beliefs of others all the time. They (including Bishop Johnson) call names quite frequently. They call people liars, false prophets, satan, demons and call their churches false churces.

I like the way you look like you are being attacked and your church members are so innocent.

I know the victim mentality gets a lot of attention, but not here. So, your beliefs are what they are. That is fine, but please don't act like you all don't go around talking about what others believe and practice. That would be a total untruth!!!!

Also, this is a public forum to discuss topics that are relevant to the apostolic church and movement. Feel free to discuss or keep moving.

[ThePastorsCoach]

This is addressed to BelievesJesus:
I have visited the church in Philadelphia (while preaching in the area) several times and noticed women coming in and draping something white that looked like a net or a table cloth over them and sitting there under it for a long time. What is that about?

It was announced that the Bishop (not sure what his name was) was resting in (I think they said the Upper Room) because he had been on a long trip and was just getting in. I think he spoke from another place to them one time I was there.
The building seats 5000, is it every full? There was less than 100 people there on the Sunday's I was there. Massive building - very few people.
I heard Bishop Shelton say one time on radio "I am going to make a special dispensation, put your hands on your head, bring me my golden slippers, bring me my golden slippers!" What was that all about? He also addressed his "sons" as Prince 1 or Prince 2 I think. How many of those Son's or Princes did he have?

[TGBTG]

This is addressed to BelievesJesus:
I have visited the church in Philadelphia (while preaching in the area) several times and noticed women coming in and draping something white that looked like a net or a table cloth over them and sitting there under it for a long time. What is that about?

It was announced that the Bishop (not sure what his name was) was resting in (I think they said the Upper Room) because he had been on a long trip and was just getting in. I think he spoke from another place to them one time I was there.
The building seats 5000, is it every full? There was less than 100 people there on the Sunday's I was there. Massive building - very few people.
I heard Bishop Shelton say one time on radio "I am going to make a special dispensation, put your hands on your head, bring me my golden slippers, bring me my golden slippers!" What was that all about? He also addressed his "sons" as Prince 1 or Prince 2 I think. How many of those Son's or Princes did he have?

Now that is funny................:spit

[johnny44]

I visited the church in Philadelpia also. It was packed out.I believe that's a covering for when they pray.I think the first Apostles use to hang out in the upper room too.Paul had sons in the Gospel.if I remember correctly.All Kings have princes hanging around them don't they?

[Apprehended]

I greatly love the dear old Bishop. I did not know him personally but would listen to him on the radio in New Orleans when I lived there in the 1950s. Shortly after he died in Jamaica, I attended the church just after Bishop S. McDowel Shelton assumed the headship of the church. It was packed to overflowing. While I was there I bought some tapes which I still have.

Did I say that I loved the old Bishop? I did. Why? Because of his stand on the Acts 2:38 New Birth experience and the very clear understanding of the godhead and who Jesus is. Standing for those things, he had a backbone as strong and stout as an Oak saw-log.

Did I say that I loved the old Bishop? Yes, I did. Soon, I am going to see him in glory. His neck will be one of the most beautiful that I shall hope to hug and tell him "Thank you, Bishop. You helped me to love it too."

[Hoovie]

Golden slippers!!! Bring me my Golden Slippers!!!!

Sorry folks, that's really funny!

[johnny44]

Golden slippers!!! Bring me my Golden Slippers!!!!

Sorry folks, that's really funny!Mine are blue.

[Sam]

...Did I say that I loved the old Bishop? I did. Why? Because of his stand on the Acts 2:38 New Birth experience and the very clear understanding of the godhead and who Jesus is. Standing for those things, he had a backbone as strong and stout as an Oak saw-log. ...



His understanding of the godhead and who Jesus is??

Didn't the Bishop teach

Jesus was born human
after His baptism, God entered into Him
on the cross God left Him
3 days later God came back into Him

so He wasn't God until the age of 30
and He wasn't God during the 3 days in the grave

[johnny44]

His understanding of the godhead and who Jesus is??

Didn't the Bishop teach

Jesus was born human
after His baptism, God entered into Him
on the cross God left Him
3 days later God came back into Him

so He wasn't God until the age of 30
and He wasn't God during the 3 days in the graveI never heard anything like that on the tapes I heard.But you might check with Anthony Magnum,he said that his Dad would listen to him all the time is what I understood him to say.

[Scott Hutchinson]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFD4p0MZYdA&feature=related

[Scott Hutchinson]

http://www.apostolic-ministries.net/isjesus_son_now.htm

[warrior]

No Son of God in Heaven Now, clearly demonstrates his idea of the Godhead.

:beatdeadhorse

[warrior]

http://www.apostolic-ministries.net/isjesus_son_now.htm

Brother Hutchinson, do you believe this teaching to be accurate according to scripture?

[Danville]

Bishop S.C Johnson did preach some truth. Some things he preached were simply untrue like: It is wrong for saints to go funerals,It is a sin to watch televison,it is a sin to celebrate Christmas and the list goes on. He did cite some scriptures that he thought supported these doctrines,but most of them were out of context, The word of God has to be rightly divided.

[Danville]

There are a lot of things that God has said that we do not understand! We know that God is one,but God has told us to wait for his son from heaven. If God said to wait for his son from heaven then the Son is in heaven! God said that the Son of God passed into the heavens,so He is in heaven! God will never explain everything to us! Again, God is one,but God also has said his son is in heaven. To deny that is to call God a liar! Can we explain an infinite God? Impossible!

[Danville]

Again, The scriptures have to be RIGHTLY divided! Isaiah 44:4--8 God says there is no God with me! He is contrasting Himself the true a living God with the false graven images! Yes,God is one ,BUT God has a Son NOW! We can not deny that because God has said so! Can we explain it? NO! We just take what God has said!

[johnny44]

Again, The scriptures have to be RIGHTLY divided! Isaiah 44:4--8 God says there is no God with me! He is contrasting Himself the true a living God with the false graven images! Yes,God is one ,BUT God has a Son NOW! We can not deny that because God has said so! Can we explain it? NO! We just take what God has said! Are you a member of the church from 22nd and Bainbridge?

[Danville]

Does anyone have any copies of the debate that Bishop S.C Johnson had with Don Rudd in Houston,Texas?

[Steve Epley]

Does anyone have any copies of the debate that Bishop S.C Johnson had with Don Rudd in Houston,Texas?

I do.

[MarieA27]

Do anyone have the debate of Bishop S.C. Johnson vs. Dr. Eckerson (sp?), Cherry, or Elder Mischaw (sp?)?

[Michael The Disciple]

I may have asked this already in this thread but dont want to go back over 600 posts to check. Did not Bishop Johnson teach soul sleep?

[MarieA27]

I may have asked this already in this thread but dont want to go back over 600 posts to check. Did not Bishop Johnson teach soul sleep?

Explain soul sleep exactly. If you are referring to how no one is in heaven (except Jesus and his angels) or hell (no matter if they have been dead 20, 100, 2000+ years) or going to heaven or hell until after the resurrection, or that everyone who dies is in the dust (not alive or conscious) till the time of the resurrection, then yes, maybe. But if there is anything in the Soul sleep doctrine other than that added to this then, maybe not.

[Michael The Disciple]

Explain soul sleep exactly. If you are referring to how no one is in heaven (except Jesus and his angels) or hell (no matter if they have been dead 20, 100, 2000+ years) or going to heaven or hell until after the resurrection, or that everyone who dies is in the dust (not alive or conscious) till the time of the resurrection, then yes, maybe. But if there is anything in the Soul sleep doctrine other than that added to this then, maybe not.

Yes thats what I mean. "Soul Sleep" is a term used to decribe that death is like sleep. I wish I could just use "resurrection" but nowadays people wont relate to its true meaning.

They think their soul is immortal and the resurrection speaks only of the dead body coming back to be united again with its disembodied soul. They dont realize the gospel or "good news" is promarily concerning that dead folks can live again with Christ.

So do the groups that can from Bishop Johnson uniformly teach this?

[MarieA27]

Yes thats what I mean. "Soul Sleep" is a term used to decribe that death is like sleep. I wish I could just use "resurrection" but nowadays people wont relate to its true meaning.

They think their soul is immortal and the resurrection speaks only of the dead body coming back to be united again with its disembodied soul. They dont realize the gospel or "good news" is promarily concerning that dead folks can live again with Christ.

So do the groups that can from Bishop Johnson uniformly teach this?

Sorry another question, what is annihilation? And do you believe in an actual hell, lower hell (everlasting torment, fire and brimstone)?

[Michael The Disciple]

Can you answer my question first?

[johnny44]

I may have asked this already in this thread but dont want to go back over 600 posts to check. Did not Bishop Johnson teach soul sleep?Yes

[johnny44]

Again, The scriptures have to be RIGHTLY divided! Isaiah 44:4--8 God says there is no God with me! He is contrasting Himself the true a living God with the false graven images! Yes,God is one ,BUT God has a Son NOW! We can not deny that because God has said so! Can we explain it? NO! We just take what God has said!At 22nd and Bainbridge they teach that there are 2 on the throne. Thats why I ask if you were amember of this Org.

[MarieA27]

At 22nd and Bainbridge they teach that there are 2 on the throne. Thats why I ask if you were amember of this Org.

Are you talking about what Bishop SC Johnson taught, or what they're teaching there now under Shelton's sons etc.,?

[johnny44]

Are you talking about what Bishop SC Johnson taught, or what they're teaching there now under Shelton's sons etc.,?

now

[TGBTG]

Yes thats what I mean. "Soul Sleep" is a term used to decribe that death is like sleep. I wish I could just use "resurrection" but nowadays people wont relate to its true meaning.

They think their soul is immortal and the resurrection speaks only of the dead body coming back to be united again with its disembodied soul. They dont realize the gospel or "good news" is promarily concerning that dead folks can live again with Christ.

So do the groups that can from Bishop Johnson uniformly teach this?

So aren't unbelievers also going to live again? hmmm...

[Michael The Disciple]

So aren't unbelievers also going to live again? hmmm...

Oh you dont know? Well yes the dead will all be raised some to life some to eternal destruction.

[MarieA27]

How long are the people going to burn in hell...?

[TGBTG]

Oh you dont know? Well yes the dead will all be raised some to life some to eternal destruction.

So if unbelievers will be RESURRECTED, how can you be teaching that the good news is resurrection from the dead as if only Christians will be raised from the dead?

[Danville]

You are right. I have heard many of Bishop Johnson's messages. Although he had great faith in God, many of his messages were legalistic and the tradiions of men. Come on,during his debates wasn't he just rude and downright nasty to his opponents?

[Lawest]

Praise the Lord. Are you sure that you are not equating nastiness with straight forward honest based off of the Word?

A few things that he taught may have been to the extreme ( but not major doctrine ) that Bishop Hunter came behind and clarified, but what did he teach that was really "man-made"?

[johnny44]

Praise the Lord. Are you sure that you are not equating nastiness with straight forward honest based off of the Word?

A few things that he taught may have been to the extreme ( but not major doctrine ) that Bishop Hunter came behind and clarified, but what did he teach that was really "man-made"?Is Bishop Hunter from the Chicago area?

[Lawest]

Not at all, he was born and raised here in South Carolina before moving to Philadelphia later in his life, he preached under Bishop Johnson for sometime before God moved him back to Hartsville, SC where his ministry was established.

http://thechurchin.org/bishophunter.aspx

[Lawest]

So if unbelievers will be RESURRECTED, how can you be teaching that the good news is resurrection from the dead as if only Christians will be raised from the dead? He may have been referring to the two different resurrections, the 1st where only the dead in Christ will arise along with those of us who will be alive and remain, and then the 2nd resurrection in the day of judgement.

[Lawest]

Praise the Lord. Are you sure that you are not equating nastiness with straight forward honest based off of the Word?

A few things that he taught may have been to the extreme ( but not major doctrine ) that Bishop Hunter came behind and clarified, but what did he teach that was really "man-made"? I should re-state that as 'Bishop Hunter later came behind him and correctly RE-DEFINED'.

[Lawest]

lord of lords and king of kings.

[Lawest]

testing.

[Pleasant1]

I always find it interesting when people don't quite understand something, they say things like "the bible speaks of things, not as though they were." It is even more interesting when someone rather believe the teachings of a man, a flawed man, and the bible states that we are all flawed, except Christ, than believe what is written in God's word. As many gave the scriptures more than once, Jesus Christ IS in heaven right now, and the scriptures say so. As someone said, they did not give any interpretation but only stated the scripture and yet because a man said ain't no son of God in heaven, they'd rather go with the flawed man. Or that man stated, I know the scripture says Is the Son of God, but it meant WAS the Son of God, it's laughable. It's really troubling. To understand the God head is to understand a deep thing. To state there is a son of God in heaven, does not in Any way, shape or form mean that there is more than one God. However, it does mean that you do not DENY God's witness that He said would remain at his right hand side until His enemies be made his footstool, and the last enemy is death, and we all know that death is still very much apart of life, therefore, since that last enemy has not been made Christ's footstool yet, then He must remain, even now at the right hand side of the Father, like it said He would, until death is defeated, being His last enemy.

All of that conversation and still like the poster said no scripture for the belief that there is no Son of God now. I know this is a little deep, but look up when Jesus hands all over to THE LORD, that THEY may be ALL in ALL.

To argue that there is no Son of God now, or no Son of God in heaven is to be arguing in complete and utter ignorance. You just don't know because your worship and your admiration of a man who was wrong on this issue, outweighs your worship of God who said the complete opposite in His word! Whew, been holding that in for A WHILE!

[Ferd]

I always find it interesting when people don't quite understand something, they say things like "the bible speaks of things, not as though they were." It is even more interesting when someone rather believe the teachings of a man, a flawed man, and the bible states that we are all flawed, except Christ, than believe what is written in God's word. As many gave the scriptures more than once, Jesus Christ IS in heaven right now, and the scriptures say so. As someone said, they did not give any interpretation but only stated the scripture and yet because a man said ain't no son of God in heaven, they'd rather go with the flawed man. Or that man stated, I know the scripture says Is the Son of God, but it meant WAS the Son of God, it's laughable. It's really troubling. To understand the God head is to understand a deep thing. To state there is a son of God in heaven, does not in Any way, shape or form mean that there is more than one God. However, it does mean that you do not DENY God's witness that He said would remain at his right hand side until His enemies be made his footstool, and the last enemy is death, and we all know that death is still very much apart of life, therefore, since that last enemy has not been made Christ's footstool yet, then He must remain, even now at the right hand side of the Father, like it said He would, until death is defeated, being His last enemy.

All of that conversation and still like the poster said no scripture for the belief that there is no Son of God now. I know this is a little deep, but look up when Jesus hands all over to THE LORD, that THEY may be ALL in ALL.

To argue that there is no Son of God now, or no Son of God in heaven is to be arguing in complete and utter ignorance. You just don't know because your worship and your admiration of a man who was wrong on this issue, outweighs your worship of God who said the complete opposite in His word! Whew, been holding that in for A WHILE!

you know what I wonder about? I wonder about people who pop up and raise an old thread from the dead by making some odd point or other as though they are continuing a discussion...

i dont get it.

[Esaias]

you know what I wonder about? I wonder about people who pop up and raise an old thread from the dead by making some odd point or other as though they are continuing a discussion...

i dont get it.

http://www.flamewarriorsguide.com/warriorshtm/necromancer.htm

[Pleasant1]

you know what I wonder about? I wonder about people who pop up and raise an old thread from the dead by making some odd point or other as though they are continuing a discussion...

i dont get it.

I tried to post this in 2009 and had a problem with the admins making me a registered user. Not that I really owe an explanation. But thanks for your comment.

[Pleasant1]

And what is odd about the point? The last 20 pages were about the very subject I posted about, albeit years ago. But, God Bless you!

Meanwhile, is there something wrong with the meat of what I posted? I didn't think so.

[Ferd]

And what is odd about the point? The last 20 pages were about the very subject I posted about, albeit years ago. But, God Bless you!

Meanwhile, is there something wrong with the meat of what I posted? I didn't think so.

hey its just the cantanerous Ferd or AFF... but seriously i cant remember what I was thinking about yesterday. Youve been wanting to post this about this for 6 years????? wow....


your all fired up about letting us know how awful some dead guy is/was? seems odd....


as to your point, I honestly do not for the life of me understand what you are saying.

[Pleasant1]

All I did was read the thread. One of the posters couldn't admit there was a Son of God in heaven. Saying this somehow meant there is another God. All I did was read the thread and comment. I mean it is 65 pages long and the comments do exist.

[Ferd]

Like I said, im cantankerous sometimes.

but for the record. there is one God. You will see one God when you get there...

[navygoat1998]

Like I said, im cantankerous sometimes.

but for the record. there is one God. You will see one God when you get there...

If you do something stupid we blame the Lortab! :happydance

[Pleasant1]

Like I said, im cantankerous sometimes.

but for the record. there is one God. You will see one God when you get there...

Gotcha. Of course there is one God. The Son of God being in heaven now doesn't mean there isn't One God. That's what the poster somehow wasn't getting. I think the posters name was Mz Perez or something like that.

[Ferd]

If you do something stupid we blame the Lortab! :happydance

Thank you!

[robogreg_2000]

WHAT!!!!!!! ALL Trinitarians are going to Hell????? Isn't that for God alone to decide? Only God has the right to determine a person's eternal destiny. We must remember all of us are hell-deserving ! We are saved ONLY because of God's mercy and Jesus' shed BLOOD!