View Full Version : Church refuses to host funeral of gay man
Theresa
08-11-2007, 10:19 PM
http://news.aol.com/story/ar/_a/church-cancels-memorial-for-gay-vet/20070811110009990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001
ARLINGTON, Texas (Aug. 10) - A megachurch canceled a memorial service for a Navy veteran 24 hours before it was to start because the deceased was gay.
Officials at the nondenominational High Point Church knew that Cecil Howard Sinclair was gay when they offered to host his service, said his sister, Kathleen Wright. But after his obituary listed his life partner as one of his survivors, she said, it was called off.
"It's a slap in the face. It's like, 'Oh, we're sorry he died, but he's gay so we can't help you,"' she said Friday.
Wright said High Point offered to hold the service for Sinclair because their brother is a janitor there. Sinclair, who served in the first Gulf War, died Monday at age 46 from an infection after surgery to prepare him for a heart transplant.
The church's pastor, the Rev. Gary Simons, said no one knew Sinclair, who was not a church member, was gay until the day before the Thursday service, when staff members putting together his video tribute saw pictures of men "engaging in clear affection, kissing and embracing."
Simons said the church believes homosexuality is a sin, and it would have appeared to endorse that lifestyle if the service had been held there.
"We did decline to host the service - not based on hatred, not based on discrimination, but based on principle," Simons told The Associated Press. "Had we known it on the day they first spoke about it - yes, we would have declined then. It's not that we didn't love the family."
Simons said the decision had nothing to do with the obituary. He said the church offered to pay for another site for the service, made the video and provided food for more than 100 relatives and friends.
"Even though we could not condone that lifestyle, we went above and beyond for the family through many acts of love and kindness," Simons said.
Wright called the church's claim about the pictures "a bold-faced lie." She said she provided numerous family pictures of Sinclair, including some with his partner, but said none showed men kissing or hugging.
The 5,000-member High Point Church was founded in 2000 by Simons and his wife, April, whose brother is Joel Osteen, well-known pastor of the 38,000-member Lakewood Church in Houston. Now High Point meets in a 432,000-square-foot facility in Arlington, near Dallas.
Wright said relatives declined the church's offer to hold the service at a community center because they felt it was an inappropriate venue. It ultimately was held at a funeral home, but the cancellation still lingered in some minds, she said.
Copyright 2007 The Associated Press.
Love the sinner but hate the sin....
he was good enough to clean their toilets, but they didnt know he was gay?
so, they only do funerals of saved folks? they didnt say, but I assume they wont do the funeral of a known unsaved person either.....
Just wondered what your thoughts on the matter were...
tamor
08-11-2007, 10:31 PM
I read this article a little bit ago and wondered how long it would take to make it here.
This should prove interesting....
Do you read that as he is the janitor there or his brother is??
Sister Alvear
08-11-2007, 10:43 PM
I too wondered it it would get posted...
ChTatum
08-11-2007, 11:22 PM
Interesting to note they only host funerals for those who make it.
The church is at fault here.
Not enough checking before offering, and failure to follow through once offer was accepted.
becky123abc
08-12-2007, 06:00 AM
I think the church was wrong to go back on their word. They told the family they would host the funeral, then they decided not to at the last minute...that's just wrong.
They could have said, "those pics aren't appropriate for the slide show" or whatever...but to dump em like that...that was bad.
They did provide the family with food and paid or offered to pay for them to use some other building...but it still seems wrong to me.
Sister Alvear
08-12-2007, 06:42 AM
I personally think the church was at fault because they could have sit down with the family and explained about the slides show. After all we bury saints and sinners it is God that does the final judging. I know we must protect and stand up for right but I think the church failed by saying they would and at the last minute saying no.
I did not mention this to Brother Alvear for his opinion but I think he would have sat down with the family and settled things from the start...However I do know that things sometimes take all of us by surprize...
I agree with becky123456789 that the church should have offered to have continued with the memorial service with conditions.
If the man's family agreed that his gay orientation would not be spoken about, pictures shown, etc then they could have continued.
Then if the family had refused those conditions the church could have told them in a kindly way that it was not appropriate for them to host the memorial as it would include affirming a lifestyle the church believes is sin.
I do think I read that the church has been very supportive of the family even though the man did not attend the church, only a relative.
Sister Alvear
08-12-2007, 07:56 AM
dito..my friend...
Margies3
08-12-2007, 12:40 PM
I think the church was wrong to go back on their word. They told the family they would host the funeral, then they decided not to at the last minute...that's just wrong.
They could have said, "those pics aren't appropriate for the slide show" or whatever...but to dump em like that...that was bad.
They did provide the family with food and paid or offered to pay for them to use some other building...but it still seems wrong to me.
In my mind, the fact that they DID provide food and offered to pay for the use of some other building, but refused to have the funeral in their own facility is just a double standard. What's this? He was good enough to spend their money on but not good enough for them to get their hands dirty working around?
Sis A, you are a woman of wisdom. You are right - the man is already dead. Now it is up to GOD to do the judging. Reaching out to his remaining family in Christian love is not anywhere near the same as saying to them that they condoned the man's sexual orientation. They certainly did have the right to refuse to put inappropriate pictures into the slide show and to refuse to discuss his sexual orientation during the service. But you know what? When I die, I hope no one discusses MY sex life at my funeral either!!! Why would that even need to come up??????
THATS SAD!!!!
While we certainly dont condone the lifestyle...WE are suppose to be the church!
SAD INDEED!!!
The place probably would have been full of sinners and could have heard the gospel...or something!!!
Funerals are one of the few times you can get to sinners when they are willing to listen!!
DUMB MISTAKE!
Steve Epley
08-12-2007, 01:19 PM
THATS SAD!!!!
While we certainly dont condone the lifestyle...WE are suppose to be the church!
SAD INDEED!!!
The place probably would have been full of sinners and could have heard the gospel...or something!!!
Funerals are one of the few times you can get to sinners when they are willing to listen!!
DUMB MISTAKE!
Hear the gospel?????????????????????????????????????
Do they preach the gospel, the pastor's brother-in-law doesn't preach the gospel.
I may be in the minority here, but I can understand the church's decision. I will agree that maybe they should have investigated a little more first, but I think it came as a surprise to them to find out this fella was gay.
I had one of my pastors tell me that Michelle and I needed to get married legally, but then would not perform the ceremony for us, or let us use the church, because I had been married once before. It took me a long time to forgive him for doing that, but it just wasn't worth staying upset with him over.
I think the church made the right decision. What nobody here has mentioned is that the man's "life partner" was also a part of the equation.
I understood that the man's brother was a janitor at the church and if so I can very easily see how they could have got involved through that connection. Are they supposed to ask with every funeral (remember this is a very large church) if the person was gay, wants gay pics in a slide show or would they just like for the church to identify the persons "life partner" when they stand up to do a eulogy.
They got caught - but in my mind tried to do the right thing in a bad situation. They did the video, offered to pay for another facility and provided food for a reception.
Any half thinking person in the family would have asked "Will his life-partner be a problem?"
Looks like we will have to ask another question when we do a community funeral.
chosenbyone
08-12-2007, 01:50 PM
I would have to agree with Margie and NYLP that there was more than one error regarding this man's funeral. The damage to this man's family with how this whole situation was handled could very well have long reaching affects on their spiritual wellbeing. We are to love and be compassionate to others as Christ instructed and not treat others as the world would treat them.
What could have been used as an affective time to be a witness to bring comfort and salvation in a time of grief to that family was tragically spoiled by trying to save face for reasons only known by the leadership of that church.
The other tragedy was how this man was treated in death by a church that employed him. From all appearances, he died an unrepentant homosexual right in their very midst and the likelihood of his eternal state leaves little to doubt.
Very, very sad...
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."
"Well said, teacher," the man replied. "You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices."
Mark 12:30-33 NIV
I think the church made the right decision. What nobody here has mentioned is that the man's "life partner" was also a part of the equation.
I understood that the man's brother was a janitor at the church and if so I can very easily see how they could have got involved through that connection. Are they supposed to ask with every funeral (remember this is a very large church) if the person was gay, wants gay pics in a slide show or would they just like for the church to identify the persons "life partner" when they stand up to do a eulogy.
They got caught - but in my mind tried to do the right thing in a bad situation. They did the video, offered to pay for another facility and provided food for a reception.
Any half thinking person in the family would have asked "Will his life-partner be a problem?"
Looks like we will have to ask another question when we do a community funeral.
You bring up an interesting point. Surely the family already knew he was gay. Why didn't they foresee that this could have been a problem for the church?
THATS SAD!!!!
While we certainly dont condone the lifestyle...WE are suppose to be the church!
SAD INDEED!!!
The place probably would have been full of sinners and could have heard the gospel...or something!!!
Funerals are one of the few times you can get to sinners when they are willing to listen!!
DUMB MISTAKE!
Do you get up and preach repentance at every funeral you host?
stmatthew
08-12-2007, 02:37 PM
I think the church made the right decision. What nobody here has mentioned is that the man's "life partner" was also a part of the equation.
I understood that the man's brother was a janitor at the church and if so I can very easily see how they could have got involved through that connection. Are they supposed to ask with every funeral (remember this is a very large church) if the person was gay, wants gay pics in a slide show or would they just like for the church to identify the persons "life partner" when they stand up to do a eulogy.
They got caught - but in my mind tried to do the right thing in a bad situation. They did the video, offered to pay for another facility and provided food for a reception.
Any half thinking person in the family would have asked "Will his life-partner be a problem?"
Looks like we will have to ask another question when we do a community funeral.
Excellent, balanced post.
Thumper
08-12-2007, 02:46 PM
This is one of the great challenges facing churches right now. The homosexual lobby is so aggresive that they will stop at nothing until they have pushed their way into every fabric of our society. The church did the right thing. They were hoodwinked but made the best of a bad situation. It seems now that when we are doing this type of thing in the community we are going to have to be much more cautious of folks we know little or nothing about.
What is going to happen eventually is that churches and pastors will end up doing funerals only for people they know personally or can check out very easily.
chosenbyone
08-12-2007, 03:04 PM
This is one of the great challenges facing churches right now. The homosexual lobby is so aggresive that they will stop at nothing until they have pushed their way into every fabric of our society. The church did the right thing. They were hoodwinked but made the best of a bad situation. It seems now that when we are doing this type of thing in the community we are going to have to be much more cautious of folks we know little or nothing about.
I don't think that the homosexual agenda (lobby) has any relevance with how this matter was handled. I viewed it as a failure of that church to not have known this man that they employed and his spiritual state. Perhaps, if someone would have gotten to know who was on their payroll, all of this could have been avoided.
What was most troubling was to see a family left bitter and angry with a negative impression of Christians. I hope that someone at that mega-church would reach out to them and not just completely toss them to the curb.
stmatthew
08-12-2007, 03:06 PM
This is one of the great challenges facing churches right now. The homosexual lobby is so aggresive that they will stop at nothing until they have pushed their way into every fabric of our society. The church did the right thing. They were hoodwinked but made the best of a bad situation. It seems now that when we are doing this type of thing in the community we are going to have to be much more cautious of folks we know little or nothing about.
What is going to happen eventually is that churches and pastors will end up doing funerals only for people they know personally or can check out very easily.
I think it will come to the place where it is a "members only" deal when a funeral is held at a church. Seems that a "christian funeral" would only be given to those that claim christianity. All others can go to the funeral home and have a civil burial.
stmatthew
08-12-2007, 03:07 PM
I don't think that the homosexual agenda (lobby) has any relevance with how this matter was handled. I viewed it as a failure of that church to not have known this man that they employed and his spiritual state. Perhaps, if someone would have gotten to know who was on their payroll, all of this could have been avoided.
What was most troubling was to see a family left bitter and angry with a negative impression of Christians. I hope that someone at that mega-church would reach out to them and not just completely toss them to the curb.
Chosen,
unless I am misunderstanding, it was the homosexual persons relative (brother) that was the janitor, and not him.
"The church's pastor, the Rev. Gary Simons"
The 5,000-member High Point Church was founded in 2000 by Simons and his wife, April, whose brother is Joel Osteen, well-known pastor of the 38,000-member Lakewood Church in Houston. Now High Point meets in a 432,000-square-foot facility in Arlington, near Dallas.
Wonder if Joel Osteen would condone this type of thing.
This was a huge mistake and cast a bad light on their ministry. Very sad...
I don't think that the homosexual agenda (lobby) has any relevance with how this matter was handled. I viewed it as a failure of that church to not have known this man that they employed and his spiritual state. Perhaps, if someone would have gotten to know who was on their payroll, all of this could have been avoided.
What was most troubling was to see a family left bitter and angry with a negative impression of Christians. I hope that someone at that mega-church would reach out to them and not just completely toss them to the curb.
The person who died was not the church employee. He was the brother of the church employee.
chosenbyone
08-12-2007, 03:15 PM
Chosen,
unless I am misunderstanding, it was the homosexual persons relative (brother) that was the janitor, and not him.
Thanks, stmatthew...I totally missed that this morning when I read the article.
Margies3
08-12-2007, 03:25 PM
What is going to happen eventually is that churches and pastors will end up doing funerals only for people they know personally or can check out very easily.
Our pastor already refuses to do weddings for anyone who is not - BEFORE te wedding - an active, committed Christian, preferably attending our church. If they are members of another church he will marry them only if their church is a long distance away and they want to be married in their hometown (and usually this would have been their home church in the past).
His stand is that marriage is a very sacred vow made before God and it INCLUDES God. If someone gets up there and makes that vow (including God in the equation) but doesn't really know the Lord, then they are making a mockery of something that we take very seriously.
retsambeW
08-12-2007, 03:29 PM
Maybe I don't remember correctly, but I believe the article did say there were pics of the man and his....well, whatever you call it, that were supposed to be in the funeral. I would have refused also. Now, if they did not insist on those pics, I would have had the service. I would not have considering the pics because it would have indicated I condoned the lifestyle. I most definitely do not.
I do not believe this will hurt the church at all.
Hoovie
08-12-2007, 03:40 PM
Maybe I don't remember correctly, but I believe the article did say there were pics of the man and his....well, whatever you call it, that were supposed to be in the funeral. I would have refused also. Now, if they did not insist on those pics, I would have had the service. I would not have considering the pics because it would have indicated I condoned the lifestyle. I most definitely do not.
I do not believe this will hurt the church at all.
I would have canceled also, or agreed to continue with very strict conditions. absolutely no photos of the homosexual partner and no reference to him anywhere - whatsoever.
retsambeW
08-12-2007, 03:41 PM
I would have canceled also, or agreed to continue with very strict conditions. absolutely no photos of the homosexual partner and no reference to him anywhere - whatsoever.
Agreed.
Sarah
08-12-2007, 03:41 PM
The leaders of this church was caught between a rock and a hard place. Like others have said, if the slides weren't shown, and the "partner" wasn't mentioned, they probably would have been better off going ahead with the service.
But after reading on this forum about R and D washing the feet of gay pastors in a church setting, I have to admit to read of this happening is rather refreshing......gives me a little hope that the religious world hasn't gone completely crazy.
retsambeW
08-12-2007, 03:42 PM
The leaders of this church was caught between a rock and a hard place. Like others have said, if the slides weren't shown, and the "partner" wasn't mentioned, they probably would have been better off going ahead with the service.
But after reading on this forum about R and D washing the feet of gay pastors in a church setting, I have to admit to read of this happening is rather refreshing......gives me a little hope that the religious world hasn't gone completely crazy.
Indeed, it is about time somebody stood up for the right.
I think it will come to the place where it is a "members only" deal when a funeral is held at a church. Seems that a "christian funeral" would only be given to those that claim christianity. All others can go to the funeral home and have a civil burial.
NO Matt that will NEVER happen.
Hear the gospel?????????????????????????????????????
Do they preach the gospel, the pastor's brother-in-law doesn't preach the gospel.
I knew somebody would make a big deal over this...
The Gospel---The Death, Burial and Resurrection.
That is the recognized and accepted view of the definition of the Gospel among all denominations.
They just dont have understanding of what that means.
I may be in the minority here, but I can understand the church's decision. I will agree that maybe they should have investigated a little more first, but I think it came as a surprise to them to find out this fella was gay.
I had one of my pastors tell me that Michelle and I needed to get married legally, but then would not perform the ceremony for us, or let us use the church, because I had been married once before. It took me a long time to forgive him for doing that, but it just wasn't worth staying upset with him over.
Explain this please...
SarahElizabeth
08-12-2007, 04:25 PM
I personally think the church was at fault because they could have sit down with the family and explained about the slides show. After all we bury saints and sinners it is God that does the final judging. I know we must protect and stand up for right but I think the church failed by saying they would and at the last minute saying no.
I did not mention this to Brother Alvear for his opinion but I think he would have sat down with the family and settled things from the start...However I do know that things sometimes take all of us by surprize...
That is what I think, too, Sis. Alvear.........That church might lose more credibility in the community by canceling the service than they would if they had gone ahead and conducted it with stipulations on content of slideshow, etc. Then, again, maybe it will gain credibility for some. People generally validate the credibility of what matches their perception of what is right and wrong. IF the family insisted on using the pictures/slide show, then the church had NO CHOICE but to cancel, I suppose.
Do you get up and preach repentance at every funeral you host?
Nope....If I am preaching it...YES!!!!
99% of the funeral I "host" it is always said that death is a time to reflect on how short life is and how prepared we are to meet God.
ANY Pastor who does not use an "occupied" casket as a visual aid to help folks see the value of having your eternity settled, has missed one of the most powerful opportunities to reach a hurting, lost heart.
A Pastor needs to remember , they are dead....the funeral is for the family NOT the dead!
This church had the perfect opportunity to reach out to a hurting family no matter what the sins or secrets of the deceased were.
What is going to happen eventually is that churches and pastors will end up doing funerals only for people they know personally or can check out very easily.
THATS I NOT MINISTRY!!!!!
Since when do you have to "qualify" the opportunity to minister to others?
Explain this please...
He would not perform a marriage ceremony for anyone who had been married and divorced, even if it happened pre-conversion. I have heard of other pastors that believe the same way, so what happened to my wife and I isn't uncommon.
Maybe I don't remember correctly, but I believe the article did say there were pics of the man and his....well, whatever you call it, that were supposed to be in the funeral. I would have refused also. Now, if they did not insist on those pics, I would have had the service. I would not have considering the pics because it would have indicated I condoned the lifestyle. I most definitely do not.
I do not believe this will hurt the church at all.
Bro...who cares if it hurts the church....What about the family that is now very hurt BY THE CHURCH!
IMAGINE THAT!
Maybe I don't remember correctly, but I believe the article did say there were pics of the man and his....well, whatever you call it, that were supposed to be in the funeral. I would have refused also. Now, if they did not insist on those pics, I would have had the service. I would not have considering the pics because it would have indicated I condoned the lifestyle. I most definitely do not.
I do not believe this will hurt the church at all.
As Pastor, I do agree that a compromise would have been in order, but NOT a refusal because of the lifestyle alone.
Nope....If I am preaching it...YES!!!!
99% of the funeral I "host" it is always said that death is a time to reflect on how short life is and how prepared we are to meet God.
ANY Pastor who does not use an "occupied" casket as a visual aid to help folks see the value of having your eternity settled, has missed one of the most powerful opportunities to reach a hurting, lost heart.
A Pastor needs to remember , they are dead....the funeral is for the family NOT the dead!
This church had the perfect opportunity to reach out to a hurting family no matter what the sins or secrets of the deceased were.
Hmmmmm. Interesting. I have been to several funerals and haven't heard even one preacher use the event to preach repentance to the mourners. I wouldn't want whomever preaches my funeral to take that approach either. It seems tacky to me.
He would not perform a marriage ceremony for anyone who had been married and divorced, even if it happened pre-conversion. I have heard of other pastors that believe the same way, so what happened to my wife and I isn't uncommon.
Sorry for that experience RICO....THATS SAD!!!!
I dont know of very many if ANY Pastors that would take that stance.....ESPECIALLY prior to conversion!
Thata a slap in the face to the very blood of Calvary!
Hmmmmm. Interesting. I have been to several funerals and haven't heard even one preacher use the event to preach repentance to the mourners. I wouldn't want whomever preaches my funeral to take that approach either. It seems tacky to me.
Then they missed a powerful opportunity.
Sorry for that experience RICO....THATS SAD!!!!
I dont know of very many if ANY Pastors that would take that stance.....ESPECIALLY prior to conversion!
Thata a slap in the face to the very blood of Calvary!
I don't worry about it too much anymore, to be honest with you. There are lots of ucs that have some different ideas about things. Being "double married" is what prevented me from going into ministry for several years in the uc church I attended. Once I started going to a UPC church, I found out not everyone thinks this way.
Then they missed a powerful opportunity.
Brother, funerals are a time of mourning, not a time for a preacher to take advantage of someone's emotions to get them to repent. It seems like manipulative behaviour to me. If the family requests that the minister preach an evangelistic message then it would be ok, in my opinion.
retsambeW
08-12-2007, 04:48 PM
Bro...who cares if it hurts the church....What about the family that is now very hurt BY THE CHURCH!
IMAGINE THAT!
If indeed they wanted those pics included, there was no other option here.
NLYP, what about the church's responsibility to stand up for truth? What's next, allowing people to have their wedding receptions, along with the alcohol they bring, in the church because someone might get offended if we don't?
retsambeW
08-12-2007, 05:02 PM
NLYP, what about the church's responsibility to stand up for truth? What's next, allowing people to have their wedding receptions, along with the alcohol they bring, in the church because someone might get offended if we don't?
This is the point entirely. Great post.
chosenbyone
08-14-2007, 06:15 PM
I was way, way off on this story not being pushed by the homosexual agenda in order to discredit this church and it's ministers. The following is a bit lengthy, but very telling on exactly what the church is up against today and the days to come.
For Immediate Release:
Monday, Aug. 13, 2007
HUMAN RIGHTS CAMPAIGN STATEMENT ON HIGH POINT CHURCH REFUSAL TO HOLD FUNERAL SERVICE FOR GAY VETERAN
WASHINGTON — High Point Church, a nondenominational congregation in Arlington, Texas, reneged on its original decision to host a funeral service for Cecil Sinclair, a U.S. naval veteran, upon learning that he was openly gay and that his family loved him just as he was. Sinclair, 46, a native of Fort Worth who served his country in Desert Storm by helping rescuers find downed pilots, died on Monday, Aug. 6, from complications following heart surgery. Sinclair was also a singer in the Turtle Creek Chorale. The pastor of High Point Church, the Rev. Gary Simons, brother-in-law of Joel Osteen, nationally known pastor of Houston’s Lakewood Church, said, “The church opposes homosexuality, and there was no way a service could be held that appeared to endorse it.”
Human Rights Campaign Religion and Faith Director Harry Knox made the following statement today on Simons’ decision and subsequent remarks:
“The Human Rights Campaign is shocked at the callous and mean-spirited decision of High Point Church and its pastor, Reverend Gary Simons. We mourn for the family over their loss and at the cruelty of High Point Church and its pastor.
“Reverend Simons’ statement that the decision is a matter of policy and not hatred and discrimination is a lie in politically correct clothing. It is not worthy of a man of the cloth. As this decision indicates, the church’s policy is to hate and discriminate against gay people. Its actions speak louder than its words. I cannot imagine Jesus turning away from a mourning partner and other family members. Pastor Simons and High Point Church certainly do not reflect the Christ they claim to serve.”
HRC’s Religion and Faith Program gives voice to the fair-minded faithful; opens hearts and minds to new ways of viewing gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people; and effectively works to reclaim the faith-based debate from the intolerant and radical right.
The Human Rights Campaign is America’s largest civil rights organization working to achieve gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender equality. By inspiring and engaging all Americans, HRC strives to end discrimination against GLBT citizens and realize a nation that achieves fundamental fairness and equality for all.
Please send letters of protest. Support our community.
Gay Vet Denied Funeral -READ & PROTEST- it's community time!
Body: SCROLL TO THE BOTTOM TO VIEW THE STORY AS IT APPEARS IN THE ASSOCIATED PRESS WIRE.
THE STORY IS AT THE BOTTOM OF THIS LETTER I SENT TO HIGHPOINT CHURCH OFFICIALS, AS WELL AS FORWARDING A REQUEST TO MORE THAN 400 MINISTERS ACROSS THE COUNTRY WHO WERE IN MY PERSONAL EMAIL ADRRESS BOOK, ASKING THAT THEY WRITE LETTERS OF PROTEST.
PLEASE COPY THE EMAIL ADDRESS OF THE CHURCH LEADERS FROM THE LETTER BELOW AND WRITE YOUR OWN LETTER OF PROTEST....THIS IS A HORRIBLE THING TO HAPPEN TO ANYONE GAY OR NOT!!!
Rick
THIS IS A LETTER I SENT TO THE CHURCH.
chosenbyone
08-14-2007, 06:15 PM
Dear High Point Church Leadership,
I was appalled as I opened my web browser this evening and saw the attached headline news story from the AP. Church Cancels Memorial for Gay Navy Vet..... Your church website is entitled "the Church Unusual", and I must say that with the story that followed from the AP you are most unusual.
In a day when we understand the impacts of death and the traumas both physical and emotional that a family experiences with loss, I am both shocked and horrified at the lack of respect, honor, and wisdom that your Pastor and/or church leadership utilized in the handling of this situation.
As both the owner of a funeral home and as an ordained minister who has served two non-denominational churches, I cannot even begin to fathom what must have gone through your minds as you exhibited anything but true Christian principles and values in this situation.
I have emailed this article to hundreds of ministers, ministries, funeral directors, and other concerned parties from my email address book and am encouraging them all to share this with their email lists as well, in an effort to reach every person in the Dallas area to let them know to stay away from such a TOXIC environment as you must surely have there.
Christ himself said that the two greatest commandments were that we "love the Lord your God and Love others as you love yourself"........it is quite apparent that you have missed the basic elements of this directive. The issue of homosexuality should not have even come up in this situation, the basic underlying issues should have revolved around the fact that someone had died and needed a house of worship in which to be memorialized, not to mention the fact that this man was a veteran of the US Navy. He was not good enough to be in your church dead, but he was good enough to serve his country and defend your rights to refuse him entry to your church. If you treat the dead this way, I can only imagine how you must treat the living, the homeless, the hungry, those without social status....and the list goes on.
If you truly believe that homosexuality is wrong, should you not attempt to show love and attract folks to your way of thinking with positive messages, or do you really believe that taking a hard hearted and cold approach to folks will want them to become a part of your mega church?
I am not asking that you be accepting or even welcoming to homosexual persons in your congregation......that is your right to decide how you view the religious aspects of such an orientation....BUT, for God's sake alone, could you not have reconized the simplest of human compassion by allowing a family the time to grieve....or were you more worried about what type of people that a "gay" mans funeral might attract and what type of image it would present for your congregation. Such a funeral might have served to open a dialogue between you and the gay community, or were you afraid that you might have to realize that homosexuals are no different than any other person. They, nor any other sub-set of society, deserves to be stigmatized in the manner that you have done.
I for one am glad that this has come to light. I find it interesting however that your pastor's brother-in-law, Joel Osteen, pastors one of the largest churches in the world ( Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas), and I have had the privilege of working with him in the past at two funeral services, with both of us co-officiating. He does not preach to, nor turn anyone away.......He follows the principles that you should mirror, in that he preaches God's Love and let's God make the judgments and let's God impress the decisions one should make within their hearts.
I am reminded of Christ telling us in the scriptures that we should not judge lest we be judged and in another place He tells us that he who is without sin should cast the first stone. What have you just done.....not only to the deceased, whom you view as a sinner, but to an innocent family who simply wanted to memorialize their loved one.
You can speak of love in your official press quotes all you wish, but the old adage that "actions are louder than words", are more than meaningful here. It is short-sighted, narrow-mindness such as yours that causes the majority of the hate in the world today. I applaud the AP and the family for coming forward with what is essentially an emotional rape and/or spiritual abuse that has been perpetuated by your pastor, your board, and your church upon this family and the memory of the deceased.
I do not know these folks (the deceased or the family), but I know that no human is unworthy of having a memorial or burial service conducted in a house of worship if requested by the family. We build churches and call it a church family, we call ourselves Christians, and by definition that means to be "Christ Like", now do you think that Christ, if walking the earth today would have rejected anyone, or ejected anyone from a building that was built in His name and is supposed to represent him?
While I abhor the likes of folks like Rev. Fred Phelps (www.GodHatesFags.org), who spew vile and horrid things at funerals of persons who are homosexual, I must now place you on the same level of such people, as you have slammed shut, nailed closed, and potentially forever sealed the doors of your congregation and Christianity to those who might be seeking Christ. The harm you have done, I am afraid is irrepairable.
I wonder, if you polled the full membership, and not the leadership only, of your congregation if they would have supported your actions. I trust that they will all see these media accounts and choose to move their church memberships elsewhere. It is one thing to legislate a code of doctrine, but quite something else to cut people off from a basic expected courtesy extended to most members of our society at a time of loss. I shall contact a number of Social Justice and Equality organizations that I am familiar with and hopefully will see them issue further publication of educational bulletins that alert people to the narrow minded and downright dishonorable conduct that has been exhibited by your church leadership.
Your kind of Christianity is exactly why so many people today avoid church and have a less than fulfilling relationship with God. I am sure that you never anticipated this becoming the knowledge of the general public and I am also sure that you never anticipated or even considered the emotional grief that you were adding to an already grief stricken and burdened family. I am asking that every person to whom I have sent this e-mail flood your email addresses with their own statements of horror at this atrocity.
I would ask at this time that as an act of good faith and repentance, that your Pastor issue a formal apology both to the family and to the media expressing an understanding of poor judgment and unchristian like behavior in this situation and I think it also only fair that the family be compensated by a memorial donation from both the leadership and the church, in the name of the deceased to a national organization such as SoulForce, the Human Rights Campaign Fund, GreenPeace, The Servicemembers Legal Defense Fund, or some other such social justice and equality organization
I will continue in a spirit of Christian love to pray for you and your eventual understanding of the harm that has been caused by your actions that have reflected poorly upon the church worldwide and upon individual Christians.
Sincerely,
Rev. Richard Ward, Ph.D, D.D.
RickWard66@sbcglobal.net
DEAR FRIENDS TO WHOM I SENT THIS EMAIL.....BELOW IS THE STORY FROM THE AP WIRE, AFTER READING IT PLEASE FORWARD IT TO EVERYONE IN YOUR ADDRESS BOOKS....NO FAMILY SHOULD EVER HAVE TO EXPERIENCE THIS, AND THEN SEND THE LEADERSHIP ADDRESSES LIST IN THE TO BOX ON THIS EMAIL A LETTER EXPRESSING YOUR HORROR AT SUCH AN EVENT HAPPENING TO A GRIEVING FAMILY..
THE PASTORS EMAIL IS NOTICABLY ABSENT FROM THE WEBSITE, BUT THE FOLLOWING ADDRESSES ARE LISTED AS CHURCH LEADERSHIP
robert.baxter@highpointchurch.com; bobby.yanick@highpointchurch.com; joseph.davis@highpointchurch.com. glenda.simons@highpointchurch.com, abel.pena@highpointchurch.com, roscoe.robinson@highpointchurch.com, ,
todd.mears@highpointchurch.com, misty.westlund@highpointchurch.com,
SOMETIMES WE HAVE TO SPEAK OUT AND THIS ONE OF THOSE TIMES
RICK
stmatthew
08-14-2007, 06:30 PM
I think someone here should draft a letter (or email) of commendation to this man and his leaders from AFF for holding a standard against what any real Christian knows to be sin. I would put my name to it.
chosenbyone
08-14-2007, 06:31 PM
I think someone here should draft a letter (or email) of commendation to this man and his leaders from AFF for holding a standard against what any real Christian knows to be sin. I would put my name to it.
Excellent idea...I would put my name on it too.
stmatthew
08-14-2007, 06:51 PM
Excellent idea...I would put my name on it too.
Who is our Wordsmith here??
seguidordejesus
08-14-2007, 07:35 PM
Who is our Wordsmith here??
Where's Breachmender when you need him? :hypercoffee
berkeley
08-14-2007, 08:02 PM
Would someone be kind enough to summarize this thread for me..
thanks..
Would someone be kind enough to summarize this thread for me..
thanks..
Gay guy dies. Brother works at a church. Church offers to host funeral. Family brings pics of gay guy and lover. Church realizes dead guy is gay, cancels offer to host funeral, offers to pay for somewhere else to host. Family gets mad. Gays are in a tiffy now and making demons out of the church and pastor.
Falla39
08-14-2007, 10:47 PM
http://www.afa.net/hopechurchdallas.asp
Received this from AFA today!
Falla39
stmatthew
08-14-2007, 11:07 PM
http://www.afa.net/hopechurchdallas.asp
Received this from AFA today!
Falla39
i moved the response to its own thread. Thanks for posting it!
Falla39
08-15-2007, 06:46 AM
i moved the response to its own thread. Thanks for posting it!
Thanks, Bro. Matt!
Blessings,
Falla39
Thumper
08-15-2007, 08:11 AM
Interesting to note they only host funerals for those who make it.
The church is at fault here.
Not enough checking before offering, and failure to follow through once offer was accepted.
I think the church was wrong to go back on their word. They told the family they would host the funeral, then they decided not to at the last minute...that's just wrong.
They could have said, "those pics aren't appropriate for the slide show" or whatever...but to dump em like that...that was bad.
They did provide the family with food and paid or offered to pay for them to use some other building...but it still seems wrong to me.
In my mind, the fact that they DID provide food and offered to pay for the use of some other building, but refused to have the funeral in their own facility is just a double standard. What's this? He was good enough to spend their money on but not good enough for them to get their hands dirty working around?
Sis A, you are a woman of wisdom. You are right - the man is already dead. Now it is up to GOD to do the judging. Reaching out to his remaining family in Christian love is not anywhere near the same as saying to them that they condoned the man's sexual orientation. They certainly did have the right to refuse to put inappropriate pictures into the slide show and to refuse to discuss his sexual orientation during the service. But you know what? When I die, I hope no one discusses MY sex life at my funeral either!!! Why would that even need to come up??????
THATS SAD!!!!
While we certainly dont condone the lifestyle...WE are suppose to be the church!
SAD INDEED!!!
The place probably would have been full of sinners and could have heard the gospel...or something!!!
Funerals are one of the few times you can get to sinners when they are willing to listen!!
DUMB MISTAKE!
I would have to agree with Margie and NYLP that there was more than one error regarding this man's funeral. The damage to this man's family with how this whole situation was handled could very well have long reaching affects on their spiritual wellbeing. We are to love and be compassionate to others as Christ instructed and not treat others as the world would treat them.
What could have been used as an affective time to be a witness to bring comfort and salvation in a time of grief to that family was tragically spoiled by trying to save face for reasons only known by the leadership of that church.
The other tragedy was how this man was treated in death by a church that employed him. From all appearances, he died an unrepentant homosexual right in their very midst and the likelihood of his eternal state leaves little to doubt.
Very, very sad...
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."
"Well said, teacher," the man replied. "You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices."
Mark 12:30-33 NIV
I don't think that the homosexual agenda (lobby) has any relevance with how this matter was handled. I viewed it as a failure of that church to not have known this man that they employed and his spiritual state. Perhaps, if someone would have gotten to know who was on their payroll, all of this could have been avoided.
What was most troubling was to see a family left bitter and angry with a negative impression of Christians. I hope that someone at that mega-church would reach out to them and not just completely toss them to the curb.
I think we should send this church a medal.
chosenbyone
08-15-2007, 11:57 AM
I think we should send this church a medal.
I was way, way off on this story not being pushed by the homosexual agenda in order to discredit this church and it's ministers. The following is a bit lengthy, but very telling on exactly what the church is up against today and the days to come.
I didn't have my facts straight when I posted earlier...I thought that the deceased man was an employee at the church. Later, I did some research and posted my findings on page 5 of this thread.
I liked Bro. Matt's idea about sending a letter to the man who has spear-headed a smear campaign against the church and it's ministers.
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