View Full Version : NEWS FLASH! The Cons getting cold Feet?????????????
( ( ( ( NEWS FLASH ) ) ) )
Just heard today that 2 Cons that had previously told their churches that if the resolution Passes, they were leaving UPC. WELL, on second thought, they have recanted this Idea and said they are not leaving after all !!!!!
WHY ????? well, from what i understand, they have been warned that other UPC churches would immediately be planted in their areas making such a decision a threat.
Did anyone see this coming ???? DO you think others will get cold feet ?
Nahum
09-23-2007, 04:33 PM
Hilarious.
The posturing is over, now is when we see if these men who threaten all of the time will keep their word or not.
Hilarious.
The posturing is over, now is when we see if these men who threaten all of the time will keep their word or not.
Yea this is going to get interesting - I was wondering how some of them were going to add of the cost of the UPC coming in and starting New churches for disgruntled saints to run off to. hehe!
Evang.Benincasa
09-23-2007, 04:58 PM
( ( ( ( NEWS FLASH ) ) ) )
Just heard today that 2 Cons that had previously told their churches that if the resolution Passes, they were leaving UPC. WELL, on second thought, they have recanted this Idea and said they are not leaving after all !!!!!
WHY ????? well, from what i understand, they have been warned that other UPC churches would immediately be planted in their areas making such a decision a threat.
Did anyone see this coming ???? DO you think others will get cold feet ?
Thad you talk as if you can just send a preacher to an area where there's an existing Apostolic church and have a thriving work in a week?
Another thing what you're also saying is that anyone who is an independent is open game for an organization to open a work across the street?
I believe that we have enough sinners to go around and that we should have an Apostolic church on every corner. I love to see Brothers go forward and start works, but saying that if a pastor pulls out that they should be scared of a new work being started? I hardly think that would frighten any seasoned pastor.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
Evang.Benincasa
09-23-2007, 05:00 PM
Hilarious.
The posturing is over, now is when we see if these men who threaten all of the time will keep their word or not.
Is that a good thing? I mean you wouldn't look forward to seeing Brother's walk?
Thad you talk as if you can just send a preacher to an area where there's an existing Apostolic church and have a thriving work in a week?
Another thing what you're also saying is that anyone who is an independent is open game for an organization to open a work across the street?
I believe that we have enough sinners to go around and that we should have an Apostolic church on every corner. I love to see Brothers go forward and start works, but saying that if a pastor pulls out that they should be scared of a new work being started? I hardly think that would frighten any seasoned pastor.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
you are right but it doesn't change the fact that some pastors would feel threatend by this especially if the UPC people are dyed in the wool UPC and start missing being apart of the mother ship.
bishoph
09-23-2007, 05:15 PM
The idea unfortunately within some Organizations and districts is; if it's not smoke from my chimney then there's no real fire. I actually had a district board ask me to go into a town and start a work across the street from a non-organization church just to compete with them. I refused, and later I met that pastor, and God had granted him great revival, incidentally he later joined the organization.
The idea unfortunately within some Organizations and districts is; if it's not smoke from my chimney then there's no real fire. I actually had a district board ask me to go into a town and start a work across the street from a non-organization church just to compete with them. I refused, and later I met that pastor, and God had granted him great revival, incidentally he later joined the organization.
That;s really sad
LaVonne
09-23-2007, 05:33 PM
Hilarious.
The posturing is over, now is when we see if these men who threaten all of the time will keep their word or not.
Agreeing with you!
I'm not surprised ... some of these guys have too much invested.
Nahum
09-23-2007, 08:31 PM
Is that a good thing? I mean you wouldn't look forward to seeing Brother's walk?
Who me?
C'mon EB, you know I "follow peace with all men!"
Evang.Benincasa
09-23-2007, 09:32 PM
Who me?
C'mon EB, you know I "follow peace with all men!"
Personally I wouldn't think it would be good for any Brothers to leave the United Pentecostal Church International. I think a closer growing together on the conference floor would help iron this problem out. I think advertising on television is not including the smaller churches so I think it is an issue only pertaining to larger churches and that should embarrass those larger churches because they are just self serving themselves and not the rest of their Brothers with this vote. It's sad that so many Brothers will argue the need for television within the UPCI when it will never benefit the whole organization, but ONLY a few larger churches.
United Pentecostal Brothers should be fervently seeking reconciliation with those who would want to leave. We should all be in prayer for the voting and that no matter what the turn out all will stay united and NOT divided.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
Nahum
09-23-2007, 09:39 PM
Personally I wouldn't think it would be good for any Brothers to leave the United Pentecostal Church International. I think a closer growing together on the conference floor would help iron this problem out. I think advertising on television is not including the smaller churches so I think it is an issue only pertaining to larger churches and that should embarrass those larger churches because they are just self serving themselves and not the rest of their Brothers with this vote. It's sad that so many Brothers will argue the need for television within the UPCI when it will never benefit the whole organization, but ONLY a few larger churches.
United Pentecostal Brothers should be fervently seeking reconciliation with those who would want to leave. We should all be in prayer for the voting and that no matter what the turn out all will stay united and NOT divided.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
EB, what do you do when they refuse to reconcile unless capitulation is involved. (Serious question, no malice involved here.)
Allowing a pastor to advertise his/her church on television or to broadcast services on television does not force all others to advertise or broadcast.
Evang.Benincasa
09-23-2007, 09:49 PM
EB, what do you do when they refuse to reconcile unless capitualtion is involved. (Serious question, no malice involved here.)
I think that would be terrible, and that is why all should be focused in working this issue out and conserving the unity of the fellowship. Let’s face it this is wrong if it will divide Brothers. It should be unity of the fellowship and winning souls as a unified effort. We have not one Brazilian One God work in South Florida, what would the Brothers accomplish by walking off if the vote goes not their way? Every man on the conference floor should consider themselves and their Brothers as they make their decisions on this issue. There is so much to get done and television is just muddying the waters, it's not worth it.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
Nahum
09-23-2007, 09:51 PM
I think that would be terrible, and that is why all should be focused in working this issue out and conserving the unity of the fellowship. Let’s face it this is wrong if it will divide Brothers. It should be unity of the fellowship and winning souls as a unified effort. We have not one Brazilian One God work in South Florida, what would the Brothers accomplish by walking off if the vote goes not their way? Every man on the conference floor should consider themselves and their Brothers as they make their decisions on this issue. There is so much to get done and television is just muddying the waters, it's not worth it.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
But Friend, you realize that you are placing blame squarely on the shoulders of advertising proponents, correct?
RevDWW
09-23-2007, 09:51 PM
Personally I wouldn't think it would be good for any Brothers to leave the United Pentecostal Church International. I think a closer growing together on the conference floor would help iron this problem out. I think advertising on television is not including the smaller churches so I think it is an issue only pertaining to larger churches and that should embarrass those larger churches because they are just self serving themselves and not the rest of their Brothers with this vote. It's sad that so many Brothers will argue the need for television within the UPCI when it will never benefit the whole organization, but ONLY a few larger churches.
United Pentecostal Brothers should be fervently seeking reconciliation with those who would want to leave. We should all be in prayer for the voting and that no matter what the turn out all will stay united and NOT divided.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
I see you have pulled up the judgment seat. What makes you think the "Big Churches" are wanting it for just themselves? Could it be possible they want to reach the lost and see this as a usable tool? If a "big church" reached a lost person via TV and they in turn reach out to family and friends where there are "small churches", wouldn't it benefit those "small churches"? Besides large or small aren't we all the Church and what helps one helps all?
RevDWW
09-23-2007, 09:54 PM
I think that would be terrible, and that is why all should be focused in working this issue out and conserving the unity of the fellowship. Let’s face it this is wrong if it will divide Brothers. It should be unity of the fellowship and winning souls as a unified effort. We have not one Brazilian One God work in South Florida, what would the Brothers accomplish by walking off if the vote goes not their way? Every man on the conference floor should consider themselves and their Brothers as they make their decisions on this issue. There is so much to get done and television is just muddying the waters, it's not worth it.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
How many would have to be reached by TV for it to be worth it to you?
Evang.Benincasa
09-23-2007, 09:54 PM
Allowing a pastor to advertise his/her church on television or to broadcast services on television does not force all others to advertise or broadcast.
Sam it's not about that, it's about only larger wealthier churches being able to afford advertising on television. It's about smaller churches not being able to be involved due to small budgets. It's not fair. All will be making a decision for only a few to profit from the vote.
Why risk a problem with others in the group over this?
Nahum
09-23-2007, 09:55 PM
Sam it's not about that, it's about only larger wealthier churches being able to afford advertising on television. It's about smaller churches not being able to be involved due to small budgets. It's not fair. All will be making a decision for only a few to profit from the vote.
Why risk a problem with others in the group over this?
I can advertise on local cable for $5.oo per spot. I don't see how that is so far out of our budget.
Evang.Benincasa
09-23-2007, 09:58 PM
How many would have to be reached by TV for it to be worth it to you?
My Brother why are you so sure it will work as a benefit to the movement?
If this goes all wrong it will be like busting a pillow; you will never get all those feathers back in the pillowcase.
Evang.Benincasa
09-23-2007, 09:59 PM
But Friend, you realize that you are placing blame squarely on the shoulders of advertising proponents, correct?
How can it be any other way? Why be willing to lose good men over this one issue an issue that may not work out for the organization as a whole?
RevDWW
09-23-2007, 10:04 PM
My Brother why are you so sure it will work as a benefit to the movement?
If this goes all wrong it will be like busting a pillow; you will never get all those feathers back in the pillowcase.
Has radio, printed media, and internet helped or hurt the movement?
Why can we believe that God is sovereign on the Radio, Billboards, and the Internet, but yet television is too much for Him to handle?
crakjak
09-23-2007, 10:13 PM
Thad you talk as if you can just send a preacher to an area where there's an existing Apostolic church and have a thriving work in a week?
Another thing what you're also saying is that anyone who is an independent is open game for an organization to open a work across the street?
I believe that we have enough sinners to go around and that we should have an Apostolic church on every corner. I love to see Brothers go forward and start works, but saying that if a pastor pulls out that they should be scared of a new work being started? I hardly think that would frighten any seasoned pastor.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
Well said, Bro. Doesn't sound Christlike at all.
Evang.Benincasa
09-23-2007, 10:18 PM
Has radio, printed media, and internet helped or hurt the movement?
Why can we believe that God is sovereign on the Radio, Billboards, and the Internet, but yet television is too much for Him to handle?
It's because we have preached against television and what's on it.
Now to bring a decision that will greatly offend the rest of the Brothers would not be the right thing to do. Having been on radio and in the newspapers the only way it works is through high levels of saturation.
To do the same with television will leave smaller churches out of the running.
This vote is not for the whole organization, but only for larger churches who can afford the advertising.
Another thing there are ministers who cannot even afford to come to the GC this year, how will they be able to have their voice heard? Men who for what ever reason can not make it to the General Conference, how will these Brothers be able to be counted?
This is not good for the whole, shouldn't this be a problem? Why risk the loss of churches over this issue.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
It's because we have preached against television and what's on it.
...
We used to preach against radio and what was on it.
Evang.Benincasa
09-23-2007, 10:41 PM
We used to preach against radio and what was on it.
Sam did you take a good look at the rest of what I said after I made the statement you chose to quote? Nothing like ignoring the bigger picture?
Television is not the goose that lays the golden eggs, and if we believe that it is we would be foolish. Those who are successful in advertising their churches are spending a lot of money. Again I will say that this vote is not for the little church but is more for those who are already large and have hopes to become larger. I have no problem with a Church wanting to become huge, but not at the expense of the rest of the movement who will never benefit from the decision that the voting will make. So Brother Ellis, it is more than just preaching against something, but has more to do with keeping the unity of the Brothers in the fellowship.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
Kansas Preacher
09-23-2007, 11:26 PM
We used to preach against radio and what was on it.
Sam,
The fact is, the United Pentecostal Church NEVER took an official stand against radio. I've heard others make this argument, and it is simply not true. There were some individuals who preached against it, but we, as a movement, never felt led of the Holy Ghost to make an official stand. When it came to television, however, an overwhelming majority of men felt prompted by the Spirit to take an official stand against that particular form of media.
Thad,
Here is one UPC preacher who WILL leave if the resolution passes. I don't care if the UPC starts 10 churches in my city. If they adopt the usage of television in any form or fashion, I'm out.
redeemedcynic84
09-23-2007, 11:33 PM
I think that would be terrible, and that is why all should be focused in working this issue out and conserving the unity of the fellowship. Let’s face it this is wrong if it will divide Brothers. It should be unity of the fellowship and winning souls as a unified effort. We have not one Brazilian One God work in South Florida, what would the Brothers accomplish by walking off if the vote goes not their way? Every man on the conference floor should consider themselves and their Brothers as they make their decisions on this issue. There is so much to get done and television is just muddying the waters, it's not worth it.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
what is a "Brazilian one God work in South Florida"??? Why do we need a work aimed at people of a certain nationality??? its not like "Brazilian" is a language (now if you mean a "Portugese" work because there are a ton of people who speak English only as a second language and speak Portugese as a first language, that I could understand)...
and its sad that we have ANY of these rules at all that could split the fellowship... James preached the Law, Paul didn't, they fellowshipped, we should have that attitude, not this mess...
redeemedcynic84
09-23-2007, 11:35 PM
Sam it's not about that, it's about only larger wealthier churches being able to afford advertising on television. It's about smaller churches not being able to be involved due to small budgets. It's not fair. All will be making a decision for only a few to profit from the vote.
Why risk a problem with others in the group over this?
I go to a small-ish church (we run like 200-250 or so on Sunday Mornings and I'm not sure on Sun/Wed night, but I'd be surprised if it were more than 150)
and we looked into advertising... you can get 20 30 second spots for 1100 airing between 7 and 9 AM and 5 and 6 PM... which means it is cheaper to run one 30 second tv ad than it is to get one ad out in a newspaper.... and its likely more people will see the tv ad...
and this is on a broadcast channel, its not even cable... Cable is cheaper...
redeemedcynic84
09-23-2007, 11:38 PM
Sam,
The fact is, the United Pentecostal Church NEVER took an official stand against radio. I've heard others make this argument, and it is simply not true. There were some individuals who preached against it, but we, as a movement, never felt led of the Holy Ghost to make an official stand. When it came to television, however, an overwhelming majority of men felt prompted by the Spirit to take an official stand against that particular form of media.
Thad,
Here is one UPC preacher who WILL leave if the resolution passes. I don't care if the UPC starts 10 churches in my city. If they adopt the usage of television in any form or fashion, I'm out.
You need to study the Bible again, bro... Look at what James did when PAul and the Antioch church wanted to preach that the Gentiles did NOT have to follow the law... They agreed to disagree and stayed together... No one is forcing you to advertise on tv and it is sad when somehting that is not being preached by you as necessary for salvation is so much more important to you than something that James (Jesus' brother) preached was necessary for salvation...
deacon blues
09-24-2007, 04:42 AM
How can it be any other way? Why be willing to lose good men over this one issue an issue that may not work out for the organization as a whole?
Some of these same guys knew voting for an Affirmation Statement would alienate some brethren and force their hand to leave. They didn't mind doing something knowing that men would exit the organization as result. Why were thay willing to lose some good men for something that has only caused more division? In fact I believe the division we are seeing today is a result of the AS, something that has done nothing more than sow discord among us and to bring us to this point.
deacon blues
09-24-2007, 04:52 AM
Those who are successful in advertising their churches are spending a lot of money.
What about Pastor Posters post about $5.00 per spot? That's not a lot of money. Why do you guys never address the affordability of cable tv advertising? You always talk like folks are trying to get Super Bowl ad time! Yes advertising on the networks IS expensive, and a vast majority could not afford it. Besides not many churches would want a national ad campaign. However advertising on local cable is very reasonable. Research it on the net and you will see that this "no one can afford it but the big churches" mantra is just plain nonsensical.
deacon blues
09-24-2007, 04:57 AM
Thad,
Here is one UPC preacher who WILL leave if the resolution passes. I don't care if the UPC starts 10 churches in my city. If they adopt the usage of television in any form or fashion, I'm out.
Why Bro G? Why does the passage of this res have to push you out? I don't understand. How does the passage of this res threaten you in any way? If it passes, keep on fellowshipping those you want and shy away form those you wish to keep at a distance. How does the passage of res 4 have to change anything for you. You can keep on living like you're living, preaching like you're preaching, leading like you're leading.
BTW congrats on the AMC invitation. I may just drive up to see you next year.
ChicagoPastor
09-24-2007, 05:38 AM
Sam,
The fact is, the United Pentecostal Church NEVER took an official stand against radio. I've heard others make this argument, and it is simply not true. There were some individuals who preached against it, but we, as a movement, never felt led of the Holy Ghost to make an official stand. When it came to television, however, an overwhelming majority of men felt prompted by the Spirit to take an official stand against that particular form of media.
Thad,
Here is one UPC preacher who WILL leave if the resolution passes. I don't care if the UPC starts 10 churches in my city. If they adopt the usage of television in any form or fashion, I'm out.
Last year at GC we were told that the vote was CLOSE in the 50's....it wasn't an overwhelming majority.
chseeads
09-24-2007, 07:16 AM
Sam,
The fact is, the United Pentecostal Church NEVER took an official stand against radio. I've heard others make this argument, and it is simply not true. There were some individuals who preached against it, but we, as a movement, never felt led of the Holy Ghost to make an official stand. When it came to television, however, an overwhelming majority of men felt prompted by the Spirit to take an official stand against that particular form of media.
Looks like the Spirit would've taken a stand against the Internet too..... :sshhh
chseeads
09-24-2007, 07:20 AM
I go to a small-ish church (we run like 200-250 or so on Sunday Mornings and I'm not sure on Sun/Wed night, but I'd be surprised if it were more than 150)
It's funny depending on where people are from what they consider big and small churches.
Here, 200-250 is a great big church.
Evang.Benincasa
09-24-2007, 07:21 AM
what is a "Brazilian one God work in South Florida"???
We have a huge amount of Brazilians in South Florida. Most who are Trinitarian Pentecostal (Assembly of gods). We have no One God work focused towards that people and their language.
Why do we need a work aimed at people of a certain nationality???
Why yes young man there is many works down here that are focused towards a certain group because of language barriers. Maybe over in Dogpatch where you live there are not such a great variety of peoples from different countries, but here in South Florida we have every kind of language and culture you can think of. You see being an evangelist you have to do what you can to reach the people, since I cannot speak Portuguese, I need to raise up Brothers who can to teach and preach to people who only understand Portuguese. Do you understand the situation now?
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
StillStanding
09-24-2007, 07:32 AM
I find it absolutely amazing that any pastor would leave an organization which they have loved for many years over allowing TV advertising or a TV program!
Do you understand how rare it is to find pastors that agree with every little conviction that you may have? Yet you will chose even less fellowship?
Why are you sweating over the small stuff? Save your energy for the REAL issues over doctrine!
I know! I know! You don't want to fellowship churches that are less spiritual than yours!
LaVonne
09-24-2007, 07:37 AM
I find it absolutely amazing that any pastor would leave an organization which they have loved for many years over allowing TV advertising or a TV program!
Do you understand how rare it is to find pastors that agree with every little conviction that you may have? Yet you will chose even less fellowship?
Why are you sweating over the small stuff? Save your energy for the REAL issues over doctrine!
I know! I know! You don't want to fellowship churches that are less spiritual than yours!
Exactly!
I once belonged to a church who felt they were so exclusive that they were not allowed to fellowship with any outside their own church...could that be what we are seeing here..."exclusiveness"?
Truly Blessed
09-24-2007, 07:50 AM
I think that would be terrible, and that is why all should be focused in working this issue out and conserving the unity of the fellowship. Let’s face it this is wrong if it will divide Brothers. It should be unity of the fellowship and winning souls as a unified effort. We have not one Brazilian One God work in South Florida, what would the Brothers accomplish by walking off if the vote goes not their way? Every man on the conference floor should consider themselves and their Brothers as they make their decisions on this issue. There is so much to get done and television is just muddying the waters, it's not worth it.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
I get the impression that you feel an organization should get its direction from weaker brethren. UPC preachers opposing the use of modern technology to take "the whole gospel to the whole world" represents an oxymoron to the stated purpose for their existence as an organization I just don't get it.
Esther
09-24-2007, 08:01 AM
Sam it's not about that, it's about only larger wealthier churches being able to afford advertising on television. It's about smaller churches not being able to be involved due to small budgets. It's not fair. All will be making a decision for only a few to profit from the vote.
Why risk a problem with others in the group over this?
So your saying if I can't have it I don't want you to have it either?
revrandy
09-24-2007, 08:02 AM
I can verify Thad's Report.... this has been said...
Truly Blessed
09-24-2007, 08:09 AM
To think that a church could leave the organization and they wouldn't start another church in the area is being naive. When a church leaves the org you have left truth and so how could a pastor who has preached to his congregation that the UPC is the org with the truth not expect that they wouldn't want to ensure that a church with the truth would remain in his community?
revrandy
09-24-2007, 08:10 AM
To think that a church could leave the organization and they wouldn't start another church in the area is being naive. When a church leaves the org you have left truth and so how could a pastor who has preached to his congregation that the UPC is the org with the truth not expect that they wouldn't want to ensure that a church with the truth would remain in his community?
Power and Insecurity...both rolled into one...
redeemedcynic84
09-24-2007, 08:22 AM
It's funny depending on where people are from what they consider big and small churches.
Here, 200-250 is a great big church.
seriously??
I could see mid-sized, but how is 200-250 people big?
AmazingGrace
09-24-2007, 08:25 AM
seriously??
I could see mid-sized, but how is 200-250 people big?
I can see it too because for instance in Louisiana where we used to live other then the one huge church there in our immediate area... there were so many churches its almost as if they didnt give the churches enough chance to grow.. they just built a new one. A large church there in the CenLa area averaged about 200...
But now we are in Dallas and ours is one of the larger upc and it runs 900. So it does kind of depend on the area I believe
LaVonne
09-24-2007, 08:27 AM
I can see it too because for instance in Louisiana where we used to live other then the one huge church there in our immediate area... there were so many churches its almost as if they didnt give the churches enough chance to grow.. they just built a new one. A large church there in the CenLa area averaged about 200...
But now we are in Dallas and ours is one of the larger upc and it runs 900. So it does kind of depend on the area I believe
Right you are!
redeemedcynic84
09-24-2007, 08:29 AM
We have a huge amount of Brazilians in South Florida. Most who are Trinitarian Pentecostal (Assembly of gods). We have no One God work focused towards that people and their language.
OK, like I said, you mean "Portugese" (which is the official language of Brazil), right???
Why yes young man there is many works down here that are focused towards a certain group because of language barriers. Maybe over in Dogpatch where you live there are not such a great variety of peoples from different countries, but here in South Florida we have every kind of language and culture you can think of. You see being an evangelist you have to do what you can to reach the people, since I cannot speak Portuguese, I need to raise up Brothers who can to teach and preach to people who only understand Portuguese. Do you understand the situation now?
Yes, that is what I was asking about... When you ask about a work that speaks "Brazilian", though, I had to wonder since there is no language on the planet earth called "Brazilian"...
I understood the situation before, I just wasn't sure what you were talking about since you were asking about a church reaching to a certain demographic based on nationality (and that's not cool to have a church based on nationality), but what you were really looking for is a church that speaks Portugese (a church that is needed based on language barriers)
AmazingGrace
09-24-2007, 08:33 AM
OK, like I said, you mean "Portugese" (which is the official language of Brazil), right???
Yes, that is what I was asking about... When you ask about a work that speaks "Brazilian", though, I had to wonder since there is no language on the planet earth called "Brazilian"...
I understood the situation before, I just wasn't sure what you were talking about since you were asking about a church reaching to a certain demographic based on nationality (and that's not cool to have a church based on nationality), but what you were really looking for is a church that speaks Portugese (a church that is needed based on language barriers)
I want to ask the question why is it not right to have a church based upon a nationality? We have many of them in our church... we have a Korean church, we have a Spanish church, we have a Indian church and we have a African church and they are also welcomed at all of our regular services but we have chosen to have church for them also on their own because... if we had an interpreter for every nationality we had it would just not work and the demographics of where we are located just make this the right solution... (also has something to do with the fact that we couldnt fit another 500 or so in our sanctuary on a sunday service right now either...
( ( ( ( NEWS FLASH ) ) ) )
Just heard today that 2 Cons that had previously told their churches that if the resolution Passes, they were leaving UPC. WELL, on second thought, they have recanted this Idea and said they are not leaving after all !!!!!
WHY ????? well, from what i understand, they have been warned that other UPC churches would immediately be planted in their areas making such a decision a threat.
Did anyone see this coming ???? DO you think others will get cold feet ?
Thad, A UPC church is no threat to a church that has left the UPC.
redeemedcynic84
09-24-2007, 08:58 AM
I want to ask the question why is it not right to have a church based upon a nationality? We have many of them in our church... we have a Korean church, we have a Spanish church, we have a Indian church and we have a African church and they are also welcomed at all of our regular services but we have chosen to have church for them also on their own because... if we had an interpreter for every nationality we had it would just not work and the demographics of where we are located just make this the right solution... (also has something to do with the fact that we couldnt fit another 500 or so in our sanctuary on a sunday service right now either...
you are reading "language" into "nationality"
IF everyone speaks English, it is not ok to have an English speaking church that is only for, say, white people, or latino people where other nationalities are not welcome (whether overtly or covertly)
HOWEVER, if the church does everything in, say, Spanish, then those who don't speak spanish are unlikely to go there, but that's ok...
It is not ok to bar people from going to your church, or only aim your church, at people of a certain nationality, that would be racism... But if it is based upon language barriers it is not racism...
does that make sense?
AmazingGrace
09-24-2007, 09:02 AM
you are reading "language" into "nationality"
IF everyone speaks English, it is not ok to have an English speaking church that is only for, say, white people, or latino people where other nationalities are not welcome (whether overtly or covertly)
HOWEVER, if the church does everything in, say, Spanish, then those who don't speak spanish are unlikely to go there, but that's ok...
It is not ok to bar people from going to your church, or only aim your church, at people of a certain nationality, that would be racism... But if it is based upon language barriers it is not racism...
does that make sense?
Ok I do see where you are coming from now but I read it differently in Bro B's and your correspondence... I need to wake up I guess... Oh well heading to ladies bible study maybe I will be awake by then LOL
redeemedcynic84
09-24-2007, 09:04 AM
Ok I do see where you are coming from now but I read it differently in Bro B's and your correspondence... I need to wake up I guess... Oh well heading to ladies bible study maybe I will be awake by then LOL
my initial question was because he based it on nationality (brazilian) not language (portugese)... that was why I questioned what he was saying, because there is no "Brazilian" language (they speak Portugese)
AmazingGrace
09-24-2007, 09:05 AM
my initial question was because he based it on nationality (brazilian) not language (portugese)... that was why I questioned what he was saying, because there is no "Brazilian" language (they speak Portugese)
Correct and I see that now. I had to reread what you stated earlier... I am with ya now... like I said just still asleep I think
chseeads
09-24-2007, 09:30 AM
seriously??
I could see mid-sized, but how is 200-250 people big?
In this area there are a lot of churches and none of them are huge. The 200-250 range are among the largest.
Felicity
09-24-2007, 09:34 AM
you are reading "language" into "nationality"
IF everyone speaks English, it is not ok to have an English speaking church that is only for, say, white people, or latino people where other nationalities are not welcome (whether overtly or covertly)
HOWEVER, if the church does everything in, say, Spanish, then those who don't speak spanish are unlikely to go there, but that's ok...
It is not ok to bar people from going to your church, or only aim your church, at people of a certain nationality, that would be racism... But if it is based upon language barriers it is not racism...
does that make sense?What did you just say? :killinme
redeemedcynic84
09-24-2007, 09:42 AM
In this area there are a lot of churches and none of them are huge. The 200-250 range are among the largest.
ours is "among the largest" (with a few semi-super church exceptions) among Apostlic churches around here, too, but its far from large... at least it doesn't really seem large...
redeemedcynic84
09-24-2007, 09:43 AM
What did you just say? :killinme
racism is bad...
building a church based upon racism is bad...
but building a church that speaks a language because there are many who don't speak English in that area is fine....
chseeads
09-24-2007, 09:52 AM
ours is "among the largest" (with a few semi-super church exceptions) among Apostlic churches around here, too, but its far from large... at least it doesn't really seem large...
Just depends on your frame of reference what large is. Compare a grain of sand and a marble, a marble is large...compare a marble and a basketball, a marble is small.
HangingOut
09-24-2007, 11:06 AM
Heard about a southern CA pastor and his associates will leave if Res. 4 passes. I think the question is really, how many? It will be interesting to see if he recants. I predict OR
Pastors will wait on it.
I think there are a hanful of Far far Right preachers that will leave. the reason is, in reality they have already left and organized their own circle of fellowship, camps, and NOW they are even having their own fellowship meetings!!!!!!!!!! so the stage has been in preparation for a long time.
others that are con but not ultra con are having second thoughts i believe
UltraCon
09-24-2007, 11:14 AM
I know several ministers that have said that they will get out if this thing passes. I've not heard any of those recant. You might not see it right away but by the first of the year lots of cons (myself included) will be gone. I won't make a big deal about it, i'll just simply not send in my dues and let my name get dropped from the UPC minister's list. I think the UPC will have to release a special edition "Forward" for the first quarter next year in order to print all the names of those "no longer affiliated". JMO
Nahum
09-24-2007, 11:16 AM
LOL
I know several ministers that have said that they will get out if this thing passes. I've not heard any of those recant. You might not see it right away but by the first of the year lots of cons (myself included) will be gone. I won't make a big deal about it, i'll just simply not send in my dues and let my name get dropped from the UPC minister's list. I think the UPC will have to release a special edition "Forward" for the first quarter next year in order to print all the names of those "no longer affiliated". JMO
WHY Though?? Let me say for the record that i do not believe that TV ministry is the answer for the UPC or for revival. I believe TV preaching is a waste of effort and money. BUT what a local church does down the road
Is THEIR business- why should it effect what i do ?? why all the threats
revrandy
09-24-2007, 11:46 AM
I think it's just wind and air for the most part... if it passes...most will stay and complain... if it doesn't most will stay and complain still...
I think it's just wind and air for the most part... if it passes...most will stay and complain... if it doesn't most will stay and complain still...
and you are voting --- how ??
Strongminded
09-24-2007, 12:21 PM
Looks like the Spirit would've taken a stand against the Internet too..... :sshhh
To much reason and logic there.....
This is nuts!
BoredOutOfMyMind
09-24-2007, 12:23 PM
WHY Though?? Let me say for the record that i do not believe that TV ministry is the answer for the UPC or for revival. I believe TV preaching is a waste of effort and money. BUT what a local church does down the road
Is THEIR business- why should it effect what i do ?? why all the threats
Yeah, for ABN Global is soooooooooooo greatly successful!
:coffee2
Yeah, for ABN Global is soooooooooooo greatly successful!
:coffee2
It has been a blessing for many- that's the report we get
BoredOutOfMyMind
09-24-2007, 01:37 PM
It has been a blessing for many- that's the report we get
Ummm Okay, for those who can get on it I guess it is good.
times out and spotchey when it does stream.
revrandy
09-24-2007, 01:41 PM
and you are voting --- how ??
Life is too short to be so disgruntled... :saycheese
Pig Pen
09-24-2007, 07:50 PM
By far one of the funniest, most hilarious things to ever read on AFF is to read any of this drivel and then look at the Verse of the Day posted at the top of the page. :killinme
RevDWW
09-24-2007, 08:54 PM
Life is too short to be so disgruntled... :saycheese
Hey anybody who goes around grunting all the time and for no good reason should be dis-gruntled.........:killinme:killinme
ChicagoPastor
09-24-2007, 09:06 PM
I know several ministers that have said that they will get out if this thing passes. I've not heard any of those recant. You might not see it right away but by the first of the year lots of cons (myself included) will be gone. I won't make a big deal about it, i'll just simply not send in my dues and let my name get dropped from the UPC minister's list. I think the UPC will have to release a special edition "Forward" for the first quarter next year in order to print all the names of those "no longer affiliated". JMO
NOPE, it's all talk. I think the ultra cons will be surprised to see that when push comes to shove, not that many will leave.
stmatthew
09-24-2007, 09:08 PM
NOPE, it's all talk. I think the ultra cons will be surprised to see that when push comes to shove, not that many will leave.
I do not think its gonna pass, so it probably does not matter.
Hoovie
09-24-2007, 09:08 PM
Sam,
The fact is, the United Pentecostal Church NEVER took an official stand against radio. I've heard others make this argument, and it is simply not true. There were some individuals who preached against it, but we, as a movement, never felt led of the Holy Ghost to make an official stand. When it came to television, however, an overwhelming majority of men felt prompted by the Spirit to take an official stand against that particular form of media.
Thad,
Here is one UPC preacher who WILL leave if the resolution passes. I don't care if the UPC starts 10 churches in my city. If they adopt the usage of television in any form or fashion, I'm out.
Will you then gracefully leave the UPC where you have been God's servant, or will you try to remain as the pastor and influence the church to cut any ties as well?
ChicagoPastor
09-24-2007, 09:09 PM
I am voting YES! and then I'm going to vote Yes four more times, for a few friends of mine who can't make it but asked me to vote for them :)
Evang.Benincasa
09-24-2007, 09:45 PM
Some of these same guys knew voting for an Affirmation Statement would alienate some brethren and force their hand to leave.
Maybe I don't understand what you're saying here? Are you saying that because of the affirmation statement that a payback attitude is in order? Interesting posture to be taken as a fellowship of Brothers. So I guess looking for unity is out of the question...right?
They didn't mind doing something knowing that men would exit the organization as result.
Understandable, but what do you really think should be done to keep peace and unity? I can understand that hard feelings may be felt by some as I can see by the above statement, but my question is how would you suggest keeping your fellow Brothers from leaving? I see that you disagreed with the affirmation statement and that it caused a problem, but since you feel that the affirmation statement caused a riff and therefore made Brothers leave, what would you now suggest to avoid another exodus?
Why were thay willing to lose some good men for something that has only caused more division?
Granted, so how can you avoid more division? What would be the solution to make everyone united?
In fact I believe the division we are seeing today is a result of the AS, something that has done nothing more than sow discord among us and to bring us to this point.
You have solidly presented the problem, but my question is how to implement a solution?
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
Evang.Benincasa
09-24-2007, 10:12 PM
What about Pastor Posters post about $5.00 per spot? That's not a lot of money.
Is that in Romania?
Why do you guys never address the affordability of cable tv advertising?
Affordabilty on cable? I don't really know about 5.00 a spot advertising.
Could you explain what a "spot" means? Is it 2 seconds, 2 minutes, 2 hours?
Is it at 3 AM, 6 AM?
You always talk like folks are trying to get Super Bowl ad time!
Really? So, you decided to offer the Super Bowl advertising time as an example? Hey 5.00 a spot to 5 million, not bad to prove a point.
How about trying at least 1,200 to 1,500, I have been on radio and on three different stations and you make television sound far more affordable than AM.
I would ask you to personally research the cost of television advertising at your own local level. Not by searching the Internet but by calling the television stations. You may just get a better view of the issue.
Yes advertising on the networks IS expensive, and a vast majority could not afford it. Besides not many churches would want a national ad campaign. However advertising on local cable is very reasonable. Research it on the net and you will see that this "no one can afford it but the big churches" mantra is just plain nonsensical.
Brother I truly believe that all this may just backfire and cause way more problems than one would want.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
Kansas Preacher
09-24-2007, 10:23 PM
Will you then gracefully leave the UPC where you have been God's servant, or will you try to remain as the pastor and influence the church to cut any ties as well?
I'm not sure your question makes sense. However, I will attempt to answer.
I have been a member of the UPCI for 25 years. However, I was not licensed when I started preaching, and a license will in no way change my ministry.
As for the church, there have only been two pastors before me. The first one stayed three years. His successor stayed 10 1/2 years and passed away. I have been here for 11 1/2 years. My predecessor was raised independent, but had joined the UPC prior to assuming the pastorate. However, he was not a great "fan" of the UPC, and did not get the church very involved in the organization.
I, on the other hand, was appointed to a District position just 6 months after becoming pastor. I have served in as many as three different positions at one time, including District Newspaper Editor, Sunday School Director, and District Secretary. I have also served as District Home Missions Secretary and, most recently, as District Superintendent. During my involvement, the church became more involved in the organization, but still has no sense of "commitment" to the UPCI. The church is not affiliated.
No one in any kind of leadership position in this church has a television. They feel as strongly as I do about the owning -- and usage -- of this medium. I will not resign the church if I relinquish my license. Furthermore, it will have absolutely no impact on the church. They could not care less whether or not I am in the UPC.
I don't know if that answers your question, but it's the best I can do without further clarification.
Sister Alvear
09-24-2007, 10:31 PM
Kansas Pastor, do you think it will be voted on or tabled?
kansas Preacher, just a question for you. let me first say I have no issue, problem or put down with anyone who has a conviction against TV. anyone in the right mind can see the problems it's caused in society.
BUt what are you going to do when in the very near future, TVs are going to be obsolete? they are not making 30 in computers for nothing. everyhting is merging into one unit . in years to come, kids wont even know what a TV is.
SoCaliUPC
09-24-2007, 10:38 PM
To outlaw TV you are going to have to outlaw ipods, iphones, and even the internet.
It is ludacris to even think that the same self-control we have to not go to certain websites, to not read and look at things we should not, to go to places where we should not be going, to go out clubbing, etc....is somehow gone away with when TV is concerned.
RevDWW
09-24-2007, 10:42 PM
To outlaw TV you are going to have to outlaw ipods, iphones, and even the internet.
It is ludacris to even think that the same self-control we have to not go to certain websites, to not read and look at things we should not, to go to places where we should not be going, to go out clubbing, etc....is somehow gone away with when TV is concerned.
There you go trying to use logic....... :killinme:killinme:killinme
Good point.
Hoovie
09-24-2007, 10:59 PM
I'm not sure your question makes sense. However, I will attempt to answer.
I have been a member of the UPCI for 25 years. However, I was not licensed when I started preaching, and a license will in no way change my ministry.
As for the church, there have only been two pastors before me. The first one stayed three years. His successor stayed 10 1/2 years and passed away. I have been here for 11 1/2 years. My predecessor was raised independent, but had joined the UPC prior to assuming the pastorate. However, he was not a great "fan" of the UPC, and did not get the church very involved in the organization.
I, on the other hand, was appointed to a District position just 6 months after becoming pastor. I have served in as many as three different positions at one time, including District Newspaper Editor, Sunday School Director, and District Secretary. I have also served as District Home Missions Secretary and, most recently, as District Superintendent. During my involvement, the church became more involved in the organization, but still has no sense of "commitment" to the UPCI. The church is not affiliated.
No one in any kind of leadership position in this church has a television. They feel as strongly as I do about the owning -- and usage -- of this medium. I will not resign the church if I relinquish my license. Furthermore, it will have absolutely no impact on the church. They could not care less whether or not I am in the UPC.
I don't know if that answers your question, but it's the best I can do without further clarification.
Really??
Are they free to express their feelings in this regard or are they relegated to second class status if they differ with you?
Is there a format in place for dissenting brothers to be heard or are they referred to as "cold in the Lord" for "questioning the man of God"?
stmatthew
09-24-2007, 11:00 PM
Really??
Are they free to express their feelings in this regard or are they relegated to second class status if they differ with you?
Is there a format in place for dissenting brothers to be heard or are they referred to as "cold in the Lord" for "questioning the man of God"?
and no smilies??? :sos
Hoovie
09-24-2007, 11:02 PM
and no smilies??? :sos
I'll make an exception for you. :largehalo
Evang.Benincasa
09-24-2007, 11:49 PM
I get the impression that you feel an organization should get its direction from weaker brethren.
Amazing nothing like a chap who comes out fighting. "Weaker Brethren" I have been hearing that little Charismatic repertory of digs against Apostolics too many times, you think a liberal would come up with something more original. Tell me how are those who would vote against television advertising WEAK? TB, maybe you can take some time away from watching football and say a prayer for these Brothers. Did you happen to see the Super Bowl game with Janet Jackson during half time? Were you feeling strong at that moment?
UPC preachers opposing the use of modern technology to take "the whole gospel to the whole world" represents an oxymoron to the stated purpose for their existence as an organization I just don't get it.
How? Did the Apostle Paul need Internet, Television, or Radio? He preached to every creature under heaven during his time, and with out technology.
How many Jehovah Witness commercials have you seen? How many advertisements for Roman Catholic Churches and Eastern Greek Orthodox do you see?
I think this is going to be a big mistake.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
Evang.Benincasa
09-24-2007, 11:50 PM
So your saying if I can't have it I don't want you to have it either?
I'm saying move not the old landmarks.
IBCrazier2
09-24-2007, 11:52 PM
How? Did the Apostle Paul need Internet, Television, or Radio? He preached to every creature under heaven during his time, and with out technology.
How many Jehovah Witness commercials have you seen? How many advertisements for Roman Catholic Churches and Eastern Greek Orthodox do you see?
I think this is going to be a big mistake.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
And how many million people were on the planet then? and now?
bishoph
09-25-2007, 12:05 AM
The reality is that most of those in support of the TV issue will never advertise or broadcast on TV anyway.
Secondly, most of those supporters use the flawed argument that in an attempt to win the world for Jesus, they should be allowed to use every medium available to accomplish the great commission.
I could buy this argument if those who use the argument were already using every avenue to reach the lost that is currently at their disposal and is in accordance with the organization they applied to belong to, knowing that this was the stand of the organization. Don't tell me you will use the newest greatest, when you won't even use what you have..
The majority, however, think that this new "miracle" medium is going to fill their churches with untold masses of the lost without all of the effort required otherwise. "Working smarter not harder." The statistics do not lie, according to George Barna less than 1% (I will verify this statistic) of people who attend a church were reached in any way by TV.
True revival and realizing a harvest of souls is going to take what it has always took. Prayer, fasting, powerful worship, powerful transforming preaching, and consistent outreach.
Evang.Benincasa
09-25-2007, 12:06 AM
And how many million people were on the planet then? and now?
Imagine taking a trip from Jerusalem to Spain, by rowboat and then back to Jerusalem via Europe through Asia Minor by foot? You need to ask yourself this question, "how hard that must have been?" Now how many people were in the Roman Empire I could only guess, the job was hard and it took these men only 40 years to preach and convert souls to their message. The Pentecostal Jesus Name movement has made a huge impact on the world and they did that without Internet, and Television. Can anyone name me the list of all those non-UPCI Brothers who are on television who are world famous or even nationally known? Listen there are One God Jesus name groups out there who have no problem with televisions why don't we have any of their folks hitting the big time because of television technology?
When I was in the world I never remember any One God Jesus name television commercials or televangelists who preached Acts 2:38 or One God?
You meaning to tell me that all Pentecostal who are Jesus name are only UPCI? Where are all these One-God televangelists from television past?
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
redeemedcynic84
09-25-2007, 12:14 AM
How? Did the Apostle Paul need Internet, Television, or Radio? He preached to every creature under heaven during his time, and with out technology.
you are kidding right???
Paul never left the Western Middle East and the main parts of Rome...
He hit Rome and the surrounding area, most of Greece, and the areas around Israel & Modern Turkey...
Paul NEVER went to Africa and he never went to Asia...
The only way Paul preached to "every creature under heaven" is if only middle eastern (and possbily white) people are creatures under heaven and no one else counts...
and even then, there is no factual reason to assume that Paul preached to everyone in all of those cities...
redeemedcynic84
09-25-2007, 12:15 AM
I'm saying move not the old landmarks.
By getting rid of these rules, the landmarks are being moved back...
The landmarks were that there is no law and we are free in Christ... Anything different is not the doctrine of the Bible...
bishoph
09-25-2007, 12:16 AM
And how many million people were on the planet then? and now?
I love it when people ask this question! If you crunch the numbers, 12 men turned the world upside down.
By current estimates there are more than 4,000,000 (very conservative numbers) oneness folks on the earth today. If we really got a burden and quit waiting on someone else to reach our world it could be done in less than 10.5 years. (each on win just one each year and teach them to do the same. 8,16,32,64,128,256,512,1b 24m,2b 48m,4b 96m,8b 192m
*****EXTRA ***** EXTRA *****EXTRA*****
I was told today that there will be an astonishing Surprise Announcement Made at General conference this week ! ! !
I am forbidden to give out any more information on this but it's going to Rock Tampa !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
we'll see what transpires. AND!! DO NOT PM me and ask me for any information on this. I promised I would not tell and I am sticking to it !
Evang.Benincasa
09-25-2007, 12:18 AM
OK, like I said, you mean "Portugese" (which is the official language of Brazil), right???
Yes.
Yes, that is what I was asking about... When you ask about a work that speaks "Brazilian", though, I had to wonder since there is no language on the planet earth called "Brazilian"...
I said a Brazilian work! I never said a work that speaks Brazilian! Listen; try to read what I post with a little more care as to not misrepresent what I am trying to convey to you. What I would like to suggest to you is start paying attention to what is posted please.
I understood the situation before, I just wasn't sure what you were talking about since you were asking about a church reaching to a certain demographic based on nationality (and that's not cool to have a church based on nationality), but what you were really looking for is a church that speaks Portugese (a church that is needed based on language barriers)
Yeah...right.
Evang.Benincasa
09-25-2007, 12:19 AM
you are kidding right???
Paul never left the Western Middle East and the main parts of Rome...
He hit Rome and the surrounding area, most of Greece, and the areas around Israel & Modern Turkey...
Paul NEVER went to Africa and he never went to Asia...
The only way Paul preached to "every creature under heaven" is if only middle eastern (and possbily white) people are creatures under heaven and no one else counts...
and even then, there is no factual reason to assume that Paul preached to everyone in all of those cities...
Try to read a Bible.
Evang.Benincasa
09-25-2007, 12:20 AM
I love it when people ask this question! If you crunch the numbers, 12 men turned the world upside down.
By current estimates there are more than 4,000,000 (very conservative numbers) oneness folks on the earth today. If we really got a burden and quit waiting on someone else to reach our world it could be done in less than 10.5 years. (each on win just one each year and teach them to do the same. 8,16,32,64,128,256,512,1b 24m,2b 48m,4b 96m,8b 192m
AMEN TO THAT!!!!
redeemedcynic84
09-25-2007, 12:20 AM
Imagine taking a trip from Jerusalem to Spain, by rowboat and then back to Jerusalem via Europe through Asia Minor by foot? You need to ask yourself this question, "how hard that must have been?" Now how many people were in the Roman Empire I could only guess, the job was hard and it took these men only 40 years to preach and convert souls to their message. The Pentecostal Jesus Name movement has made a huge impact on the world and they did that without Internet, and Television. Can anyone name me the list of all those non-UPCI Brothers who are on television who are world famous or even nationally known? Listen there are One God Jesus name groups out there who have no problem with televisions why don't we have any of their folks hitting the big time because of television technology?
When I was in the world I never remember any One God Jesus name television commercials or televangelists who preached Acts 2:38 or One God?
You meaning to tell me that all Pentecostal who are Jesus name are only UPCI? Where are all these One-God televangelists from television past?
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
but... what about Africa and Asia and the far west portion of Europe (modern day Germany, France, Spain, Portugal, & England) and Northern Europe (Finland, Sweden, etc.)??
What about Russia and Asia (China, Korea, Singapore, Japan, etc.)??? What about Australia???
What about the Native Americans, the Mayans, & the Incans???
Paul reached a small fraction of the people on earth, even with the only a couple hundred million people max on the earth when he lived... He barely reached a fraction of them...
and the "Jesus name" movement hasn't really affected the world in a major way... I mean... We haven't changed the lives of 99+% of the planet's population... Its great that we've saved souls and that's important, but to think that we're some kind of world-changing movement that has changed the very way the world works is, well, just flat out wrong...
Evang.Benincasa
09-25-2007, 12:21 AM
*****EXTRA ***** EXTRA *****EXTRA*****
I was told today that there will be an astonishing Surprise Announcement Made at General conference this week ! ! !
I am forbidden to give out any more information on this but it's going to Rock Tampa !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
we'll see what transpires. AND!! DO NOT PM me and ask me for any information on this. I promised I would not tell and I am sticking to it !
Thad what they told you isn't true, stop with the drama.
IBCrazier2
09-25-2007, 12:21 AM
I love it when people ask this question! If you crunch the numbers, 12 men turned the world upside down.
By current estimates there are more than 4,000,000 (very conservative numbers) oneness folks on the earth today. If we really got a burden and quit waiting on someone else to reach our world it could be done in less than 10.5 years. (each on win just one each year and teach them to do the same. 8,16,32,64,128,256,512,1b 24m,2b 48m,4b 96m,8b 192m
I agree with this .... I don't think the 12 won everyone back then ....... the people they won began to win people.
I agree that the people I know(including myself) are lazy. We are happy and don't want anyone to upset our applecart.
When I invite people to church that i meet around town that I am meeting for the first time, I invite them to a neighboring church!
Evang.Benincasa
09-25-2007, 12:22 AM
but... what about Africa and Asia and the far west portion of Europe (modern day Germany, France, Spain, Portugal, & England) and Northern Europe (Finland, Sweden, etc.)??
What about Russia and Asia (China, Korea, Singapore, Japan, etc.)??? What about Australia???
What about the Native Americans, the Mayans, & the Incans???
Paul reached a small fraction of the people on earth, even with the only a couple hundred million people max on the earth when he lived... He barely reached a fraction of them...
and the "Jesus name" movement hasn't really affected the world in a major way... I mean... We haven't changed the lives of 99+% of the planet's population... Its great that we've saved souls and that's important, but to think that we're some kind of world-changing movement that has changed the very way the world works is, well, just flat out wrong...
Hey if you get to sleep right now you can get up early and watch Barney.
redeemedcynic84
09-25-2007, 12:22 AM
Yes.
I said a Brazilian work! I never said a work that speaks Brazilian! Listen; try to read what I post with a little more care as to not misrepresent what I am trying to convey to you. What I would like to suggest to you is start paying attention to what is posted please.
Yeah...right.
well, since a "Brazilian" work if not based on language, but on nationality, would be a racist work then God is not in it...
God doesn't approve of racism, brother... and a work that is a "Brazilian" work would have to be racist... now if it is a work that speaks "Portugese" and reaches out to anyone who speaks that language, then that is not racist... but to label it a "Brazilian" work is wrong, because it infringes upon racism...
redeemedcynic84
09-25-2007, 12:24 AM
Try to read a Bible.
I have...
Please show me in the Bible where someone went to North or South America to preach the gospel...
Please show me where Paul went into Africa (say, the Congo or Nigeria or South Africa) preaching the gospel...
Please show me where someone went to modern day France, Spain, Germany, England, Sweden, Denmark, or other North/West European countries...
Please show me where someone went to India, China, Japan, Australia, Korea, or Russia...
None of this happened in the Bible... The revival in the Bible was based in Rome, Greeze, Asia Minor, and around Israel, and that's it... it was not world-wide, it didn't turn the world upside down, most of the world wasn't effected at all...
Evang.Benincasa
09-25-2007, 12:26 AM
well, since a "Brazilian" work if not based on language, but on nationality, would be a racist work then God is not in it...
God doesn't approve of racism, brother... and a work that is a "Brazilian" work would have to be racist... now if it is a work that speaks "Portugese" and reaches out to anyone who speaks that language, then that is not racist... but to label it a "Brazilian" work is wrong, because it infringes upon racism...
:stop what are you talking about? You're foaming from the mouth, and not making any sense. What you're posting to me has nothing to do with what I posted to you. Listen try to answer what I do post and stop the rambling and ranting. Tell you what clean up all the Legos off the floor of your bedroom before your mother walks in.
redeemedcynic84
09-25-2007, 12:40 AM
:stop what are you talking about? You're foaming from the mouth, and not making any sense. What you're posting to me has nothing to do with what I posted to you. Listen try to answer what I do post and stop the rambling and ranting. Tell you what clean up all the Legos off the floor of your bedroom before your mother walks in.
you know, its funny...
what I said had something to do with what you posted, it explained whta I meant which should have already been clear... Namely that having a church aimed at a certain race (such as "Brazilian" or "Italian" or "Australian") is wrong, but haivng one that speaks a language spoken in an area that isn't the most common language is fine because it is about breaking language barriers and not racism (like a Spanish-speaking church or a Portugese-speaking church)...
But, hey, keep insulting me, its all good... I'm sure that God and the moderators of this site are totally ok with you personally attacking and insulting other people... I mean, hey, its totally the Christian way to live, right?
*****EXTRA ***** EXTRA *****EXTRA*****
I was told today that there will be an astonishing Surprise Announcement Made at General conference this week ! ! !
I am forbidden to give out any more information on this but it's going to Rock Tampa !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
we'll see what transpires. AND!! DO NOT PM me and ask me for any information on this. I promised I would not tell and I am sticking to it !
I think I heard the same news!!!!!!!!!! I won't tell either!!!!!!!!!!! We will see what happens!!!!
UltraCon
09-25-2007, 08:40 AM
:stop what are you talking about? You're foaming from the mouth, and not making any sense. What you're posting to me has nothing to do with what I posted to you. Listen try to answer what I do post and stop the rambling and ranting. Tell you what clean up all the Legos off the floor of your bedroom before your mother walks in.
But, hey, keep insulting me, its all good... I'm sure that God and the moderators of this site are totally ok with you personally attacking and insulting other people... I mean, hey, its totally the Christian way to live, right?
I don't understand why all these libs want TV anyway. You can get on AFF and get all the entertainment you need. We have action, drama, comedy, anything you want. Just make sure you clean your rooms and get in your daily Bible reading before you waste your day on AFF.
:pillowfight
Raven
09-25-2007, 10:55 AM
I think I heard the same news!!!!!!!!!! I won't tell either!!!!!!!!!!! We will see what happens!!!!
lad
I'm flying down to Tampa early in the morning. Mrs. Raven is helping me pack. Making sure I take the right "color" of socks if you know what I mean. If something dramatic is going to happen do I need to take a bulletproof vest?
An attorney? A camera? Fore warning to my room-mate? Fore warning to my "old" room-mates? Binoculars? Are you sure of "Thad" and "lad's" sources?
Are they un-impeachable or the "usual suspects? Hurry! I leave early.
Raven
LaVonne
09-25-2007, 11:57 AM
Really??
Are they free to express their feelings in this regard or are they relegated to second class status if they differ with you?
Is there a format in place for dissenting brothers to be heard or are they referred to as "cold in the Lord" for "questioning the man of God"?
SH, did you ever get an answer???
I want to know...these are valid and important questions!
Evang.Benincasa
09-25-2007, 02:59 PM
you know, its funny...
what I said had something to do with what you posted, it explained whta I meant which should have already been clear... Namely that having a church aimed at a certain race (such as "Brazilian" or "Italian" or "Australian") is wrong, but haivng one that speaks a language spoken in an area that isn't the most common language is fine because it is about breaking language barriers and not racism (like a Spanish-speaking church or a Portugese-speaking church)...
Your just such a man of God, my lands you must be baptizing and praying people through daily. You must have Bible studies where your students are gathered at your feet looking like hungry little birds awaiting the manna to fall from your lips.
But, hey, keep insulting me, its all good...
Excuse me? What about your behavior? You need to re-read your posts to me before you accuse anyone.
I'm sure that God and the moderators of this site are totally ok with you personally attacking and insulting other people... I mean, hey, its totally the Christian way to live, right?
Taking the victim position after you use sarcasm in a post is unbecoming to anyone. Listen to what I purpose, I will no longer answer any post written by you. In that way we can not have any mistaken communication.
Sound reasonable? It does to me. Take this post as my last one to you. :kiss
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
I think I heard the same news!!!!!!!!!! I won't tell either!!!!!!!!!!! We will see what happens!!!!
out of the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses .......................
Evang.Benincasa
09-25-2007, 03:02 PM
I don't understand why all these libs want TV anyway. You can get on AFF and get all the entertainment you need. We have action, drama, comedy, anything you want. Just make sure you clean your rooms and get in your daily Bible reading before you waste your day on AFF.
:pillowfight
I think there are some good discussions on here from time to time. If FCF, NFCF, and AFF are a microcosm of Pentecost then Apostolics will be seeing some very interesting years ahead.
Evang.Benincasa
09-25-2007, 03:04 PM
out of the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses .......................
Rule of thumb concerning Thad, if it was that juicy he would tell everyone.
Rule of thumb concerning Thad, if it was that juicy he would tell everyone.
that sure was cold Brother Benny
If i make a promise i keep the promise and YES i would love to spill it !:killinme
lad
I'm flying down to Tampa early in the morning. Mrs. Raven is helping me pack. Making sure I take the right "color" of socks if you know what I mean. If something dramatic is going to happen do I need to take a bulletproof vest?
An attorney? A camera? Fore warning to my room-mate? Fore warning to my "old" room-mates? Binoculars? Are you sure of "Thad" and "lad's" sources?
Are they un-impeachable or the "usual suspects? Hurry! I leave early.
Raven
it came from someone connected to the engine that runs the ship
Evang.Benincasa
09-25-2007, 03:37 PM
that sure was cold Brother Benny
If i make a promise i keep the promise and YES i would love to spill it !:killinme
No problem Thad, I assure you that in no way was I trying to be "cold", just sharing my observations of Thadisms. :)
ChicagoPastor
09-25-2007, 11:23 PM
I'm saying move not the old landmarks.
I hope you line up at one of the mics and get a chance to speak while we argue this on the GC floor.
I want you to speak to all us "liberal" Pastors/preachers from General Conference floor with the same attitude and passion that you do here.
seriously, it would be a lot of fun and will make this a lot more interesting than hearing a preacher take a Bible story out of context to support their side's argument.
You could really light a fire under a few people and get more people lined up at the mics!
ChicagoPastor
09-25-2007, 11:24 PM
I HOPE that some influential Pastors that are FOR the resolution step UP and speak in favor this time.
We need the Anthony Manguns, Bishop Tenneys, J.T. Pughs to step up and speak in favor!
RevDWW
09-25-2007, 11:30 PM
I'm saying move not the old landmarks.
What happened to the old landmark of Radio being evil?
BoredOutOfMyMind
09-25-2007, 11:39 PM
I hope you line up at one of the mics and get a chance to speak while we argue this on the GC floor.
I want you to speak to all us "liberal" Pastors/preachers from General Conference floor with the same attitude and passion that you do here.
seriously, it would be a lot of fun and will make this a lot more interesting than hearing a preacher take a Bible story out of context to support their side's argument.
You could really light a fire under a few people and get more people lined up at the mics!
Do you see LB as being gentle and tender on this issue?
:preach
What happened to the old landmark of Radio being evil?
I do recall an old preacher friend of my father - he was from Arkansas
and he preached against radios AND Newspapers! i remember him coming to our house and seeing Newspapers and getting on our case about it
WHY Aren't you reading your bible instead of that trash he Proclaimed!
vBulletin® v3.8.5, Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.