View Full Version : Baptist & COGIC: God is Reaching Beyond our Walls!
Steadfast
03-02-2007, 05:41 PM
The last few weeks have been unique for our Church family. We are in the middle of a building program and busy as we've ever been... and God just keeps on bugging us!
We're having better services than we've ever had. God has moved in a mighty way through His Word, through the Gifts of the Spirit, through the precious Saints of our congregation.
Ironically, a few weeks ago prophecy came to us and God said He would reach 'in walls beyond your walls'. Since that time a friend of mine gave a CD of me preaching at an Apostolic Ministers conference in West Virginia to a Baptist Pastor who was a friend of his. Suffice it to say that, since I was preaching to preachers, it was 'hot and heavy' as I preached a very strong message to men who should be able to take it.
When he told me he gave his friend (Baptist Pastor) a copy I was motified and told him that it was probably too 'strong' for someone who doesn't even understand truth. WRONG! The Pastor made copies for his 'elders'. They contacted my friend for whom I preached and asked if they could 'get together' for some Pentecostal type services. They had a couple 'combined' services.
He gave him another CD of me preaching at the same conference. More copies made and given to the elders AND the Saints. A call was made and I'm going to preach for a week to the Pentecostal Church and over 300 Baptists who openly state, "We need what he's talking about!"
If that wasn't enough my drummer (young black man who is a preaching machine) was approached by the Pastor of the largest COGIC in our town (I had taught him a Bible study years ago) asking him to come preach for their Church. The young man hesitated and the Pastor said, "I know your doctrine; you're Pastor proved oneness and Jesus Name baptism to me years ago. I just know that I have to do something because what we're using now just isn't working."
I'm going in April... the young preacher from my Church is going this Sunday.
ANYBODY ELSE SEEING THIS KIND OF THING HAPPENING? It's time to preach this truth to anybody who will listen... and some of them ARE listening!
The last few weeks have been unique for our Church family. We are in the middle of a building program and busy as we've ever been... and God just keeps on bugging us!
We're having better services than we've ever had. God has moved in a mighty way through His Word, through the Gifts of the Spirit, through the precious Saints of our congregation.
Ironically, a few weeks ago prophecy came to us and God said He would reach 'in walls beyond your walls'. Since that time a friend of mine gave a CD of me preaching at an Apostolic Ministers conference in West Virginia to a Baptist Pastor who was a friend of his. Suffice it to say that, since I was preaching to preachers, it was 'hot and heavy' as I preached a very strong message to men who should be able to take it.
When he told me he gave his friend (Baptist Pastor) a copy I was motified and told him that it was probably too 'strong' for someone who doesn't even understand truth. WRONG! The Pastor made copies for his 'elders'. They contacted my friend for whom I preached and asked if they could 'get together' for some Pentecostal type services. They had a couple 'combined' services.
He gave him another CD of me preaching at the same conference. More copies made and given to the elders AND the Saints. A call was made and I'm going to preach for a week to the Pentecostal Church and over 300 Baptists who openly state, "We need what he's talking about!"
If that wasn't enough my drummer (young black man who is a preaching machine) was approached by the Pastor of the largest COGIC in our town (I had taught him a Bible study years ago) asking him to come preach for their Church. The young man hesitated and the Pastor said, "I know your doctrine; you're Pastor proved oneness and Jesus Name baptism to me years ago. I just know that I have to do something because what we're using now just isn't working."
I'm going in April... the young preacher from my Church is going this Sunday.
ANYBODY ELSE SEEING THIS KIND OF THING HAPPENING? It's time to preach this truth to anybody who will listen... and some of them ARE listening!
That is fantastic!
I told a young preacher who I won to the Lord about twety years ago that when I was praying for him and his ministry, I saw him standing in other denominational pulpits by the Pastor of that denominal requests invitation.
Through his preaching, God was able to win many to the truth!
I just know that I have to do something because what we're using now just isn't working."
What does that mean, just isn't working?
LaVonne
03-02-2007, 07:08 PM
The last few weeks have been unique for our Church family. We are in the middle of a building program and busy as we've ever been... and God just keeps on bugging us!
We're having better services than we've ever had. God has moved in a mighty way through His Word, through the Gifts of the Spirit, through the precious Saints of our congregation.
Ironically, a few weeks ago prophecy came to us and God said He would reach 'in walls beyond your walls'. Since that time a friend of mine gave a CD of me preaching at an Apostolic Ministers conference in West Virginia to a Baptist Pastor who was a friend of his. Suffice it to say that, since I was preaching to preachers, it was 'hot and heavy' as I preached a very strong message to men who should be able to take it.
When he told me he gave his friend (Baptist Pastor) a copy I was motified and told him that it was probably too 'strong' for someone who doesn't even understand truth. WRONG! The Pastor made copies for his 'elders'. They contacted my friend for whom I preached and asked if they could 'get together' for some Pentecostal type services. They had a couple 'combined' services.
He gave him another CD of me preaching at the same conference. More copies made and given to the elders AND the Saints. A call was made and I'm going to preach for a week to the Pentecostal Church and over 300 Baptists who openly state, "We need what he's talking about!"
If that wasn't enough my drummer (young black man who is a preaching machine) was approached by the Pastor of the largest COGIC in our town (I had taught him a Bible study years ago) asking him to come preach for their Church. The young man hesitated and the Pastor said, "I know your doctrine; you're Pastor proved oneness and Jesus Name baptism to me years ago. I just know that I have to do something because what we're using now just isn't working."
I'm going in April... the young preacher from my Church is going this Sunday.
ANYBODY ELSE SEEING THIS KIND OF THING HAPPENING? It's time to preach this truth to anybody who will listen... and some of them ARE listening!
YES!!!
This kind of thing happened to LS just this past year in Tennessee at Bro. Black's church. They are even going to have a conference for the Baptists soon...so I've been told.
Carpenter
03-02-2007, 07:22 PM
You better keep the standards card close to the vest...or better yet, just put it in your boot. :killinme :killinme :killinme
Scott Hutchinson
03-02-2007, 07:38 PM
Steadfast I'm happy for yall.
Felicity
03-02-2007, 08:16 PM
God always has reached beyond our walls. If He didn't there's be a whole lot less people saved than there are.
Steadfast
03-02-2007, 11:42 PM
The false doctrine that the COGIC Pastor is using, in his words, just isn't working.
Steadfast
03-02-2007, 11:42 PM
Steadfast I'm happy for yall.
God always has reached beyond our walls. If He didn't there's be a whole lot less people saved than there are.
God is GOOD to us. I'm pretty pumped up about it. A chance to reach over 300 in false doctrine during a solid week of meetings! The COGIC service is going to be thumping and jumping, too. That boy is a preacher and he's got enough doctrine in him to make a difference.
Steadfast
03-02-2007, 11:45 PM
You better keep the standards card close to the vest...or better yet, just put it in your boot. :killinme :killinme :killinme
For the record, the CD they got was from a Ministers Conference where I did preach strong lines of commitment and these Baptists LOVED it. I was shocked.
It was the reason they duplicated it and sent it through their Church. It was the reason they invited me to preach there. God opened a door through an avenue I would NEVER have guessed. There are some who literally want to hear a strong, sure message.
I'm thankful.
Truly Blessed
03-02-2007, 11:55 PM
When we were missionaries in Hong Kong, we attended language school with a Southern Baptist missionary couple. They had two sons the age of our two sons so we seemed to hit it off and became really close friends. We often had opportunity to discuss the Bible. He said we were the first Pentecostal couple they had ever had fellowship with. He greatly respected the work we were doing there and even brought his supervisors out to discuss our church planting.
Just a few months after we returned to Canada, we got a letter from this guy telling us that he had received the baptism of the Holy Ghost. Then he would share what God was doing through his ministry there in HK. It was like reading the Book of Acts. We were so excited!
Steadfast
03-02-2007, 11:59 PM
When we were missionaries in Hong Kong, we attended language school with a Southern Baptist missionary couple. They had two sons the age of our two sons so we seemed to hit it off and became really close friends. We often had opportunity to discuss the Bible. He said we were the first Pentecostal couple they had ever had fellowship with. He greatly respected the work we were doing there and even brought his supervisors out to discuss our church planting.
Just a few months after we returned to Canada, we got a letter from this guy telling us that he had received the baptism of the Holy Ghost. Then he would share what God was doing through his ministry there in HK. It was like reading the Book of Acts. We were so excited!
Don't you love it when God proves Himself all over again? This same COGIC Pastor that my son in the gospel is preaching for this weekend is one that I taught Bible studies to a few years back. He saw the Oneness and Jesus Name Baptism but said he didn't want to preach them as 'absolutes' because his Church would think he had been lying to them. I said, "No, you'll just prove to them that you have the conviction to walk in truth."
He declined to preach it. Suffered greatly because of it. Now he wants it.
Not in 'my' time but now is God's time!
Bro,
we have TONS of EX COGIC People coming to our church.
many of them weep when they remember what Old Time pentecost was for them and what it has become now . believe it or not they use to be holiness, they use to have shut ins and have all night prayer meetings,etc
the ones that come to our church now tell me it's like it was 25 years ago in the COGIC.
BTW, Bro Emory and his wife was attending a COGIC when they got saved in our church. he is from a Bapt. background but the COGIC had the best music in town at the time so most blacks in our area was going to this particular church. we won a large group of them at that time- it was in the 70s.
I think you are right. there is so much corruption and sin in their ranks that our little problems pale in comparison. you cannot imagine ! ! ! I would be ashamed to even post it. when their Bishop (Patterson) passes on, COGIC is going to go down fast. he is the glue that is holding it together but as you may know, he's in the last stages of cancer. I think after he goes there will be an even bigger influx from their group
I might add that, I have never seen a group that loves church more than this one
Steadfast
03-05-2007, 12:29 AM
They had a great service today at the COGIC... atars filled. Gonna open some doors for this young man to come preach they said.
Kind of funny, really, that some of my Saints feel comfortable going over there with this young preacher. After all, one of them used to be their Assistant Pastor, one was an usher, several used to be members there. I've won most of them by preaching there in the past and eventually opening up truth to them. :bliss
God is good... ALL the time!
LadyChocolate
03-05-2007, 07:21 AM
The last few weeks have been unique for our Church family. We are in the middle of a building program and busy as we've ever been... and God just keeps on bugging us!
We're having better services than we've ever had. God has moved in a mighty way through His Word, through the Gifts of the Spirit, through the precious Saints of our congregation.
Ironically, a few weeks ago prophecy came to us and God said He would reach 'in walls beyond your walls'. Since that time a friend of mine gave a CD of me preaching at an Apostolic Ministers conference in West Virginia to a Baptist Pastor who was a friend of his. Suffice it to say that, since I was preaching to preachers, it was 'hot and heavy' as I preached a very strong message to men who should be able to take it.
When he told me he gave his friend (Baptist Pastor) a copy I was motified and told him that it was probably too 'strong' for someone who doesn't even understand truth. WRONG! The Pastor made copies for his 'elders'. They contacted my friend for whom I preached and asked if they could 'get together' for some Pentecostal type services. They had a couple 'combined' services.
He gave him another CD of me preaching at the same conference. More copies made and given to the elders AND the Saints. A call was made and I'm going to preach for a week to the Pentecostal Church and over 300 Baptists who openly state, "We need what he's talking about!"
If that wasn't enough my drummer (young black man who is a preaching machine) was approached by the Pastor of the largest COGIC in our town (I had taught him a Bible study years ago) asking him to come preach for their Church. The young man hesitated and the Pastor said, "I know your doctrine; you're Pastor proved oneness and Jesus Name baptism to me years ago. I just know that I have to do something because what we're using now just isn't working."
I'm going in April... the young preacher from my Church is going this Sunday.
ANYBODY ELSE SEEING THIS KIND OF THING HAPPENING? It's time to preach this truth to anybody who will listen... and some of them ARE listening!
That is absolutely great!!! I recently listened to Paul Morton, well known baptist preacher and singer, and he was telling how he had the HolyGhost and then wasn't preaching it for along time because he was in the baptist church. He began to tell how God began dealing with him about telling the baptist folks that it takes the holyGhost, you won't make it with out...and so on! it was incredible. Then Marvin Winans got up and spoke about Jesus' name! One thing about it, God is going to have a church. God is drawing everyman, of every race, of every nation, God is drawing them to Him and God is going to have a church.
tyhuff
03-05-2007, 07:55 AM
we were at a COGIC church yesterday, they speak in tongues and believe apostolic whats this all about?
the guy preached on there is one God.
Steadfast
03-05-2007, 10:46 AM
we were at a COGIC church yesterday, they speak in tongues and believe apostolic whats this all about?
the guy preached on there is one God.
First of all, the COGIC has so called 'Pentecostal' roots but does not, as an organization, 'believe apostolic'. They are trinity, baptize in titles (when they even bother to baptize). They do talk in tongues as a rule.
Separation from the world used to be, years ago, fairly 'rule of thumb' for them. Now anything resembling separation is gone.
I suspect that the preacher's 'one God' was probably wrapped up in 'three persons'. One can't be sure, though, because there are black Apostolic groups that fellowship with COGIC Churches. This has been a major contributing factor in the decline of doctrinal steadfastness of the black Apostolic churches like the PAW.
Steadfast,
you are right. they are certainly trinitarian and as a whole, they do baptize FSHG.
however, without this being taken the wrong way, I don't find them as astute on doctrine. in other words it doesn't matter to many of them like it does the COG and AG. the AG people are often down right vicious towards oneness people. I have never seen that amongst COGIC
we were at a COGIC church yesterday, they speak in tongues and believe apostolic whats this all about?
the guy preached on there is one God.Trinitarians also believe in one God. Did you really expect a trinitarian church to preach three Gods?
Trinitarians also believe in one God. Did you really expect a trinitarian church to preach three Gods?
They are adament that they believe in ONE God BUT they believe this One God is 3 seperate people each with their own mind and body.
that's the problem oneness people have with it
deacon blues
03-05-2007, 11:03 AM
Just got a phone call from a Baptist pastor who wants me to preach at a family life conference he is hosting in April.
They are adament that they believe in ONE God BUT they believe this One God is 3 seperate people each with their own mind and body.
that's the problem oneness people have with itI'm well aware of that, Thad. Of course, no Trinitarian thinks Father, Son and Holy Spirit each have their own separate BODY, since they acknowledge the scripture that says God is Spirit. Modern trinitarians do, however, have this strange belief about Father, Son and Holy Spirit interacting with and relating to each other.
Steadfast
03-05-2007, 11:06 AM
Steadfast,
you are right. they are certainly trinitarian and as a whole, they do baptize FSHG.
however, without this being taken the wrong way, I don't find them as astute on doctrine. in other words it doesn't matter to many of them like it does the COG and AG. the AG people are often down right vicious towards oneness people. I have never seen that amongst COGIC
Hence the ability to fellowship with oneness people I addressed earlier. In some areas the black oneness and COGIC have blended so much that even THEY don't know the difference.
This was a fact that Bishop Golder lamented greatly. In fact, he discussed it and felt that it (fellowshipping false doctrine) and their backing away from making an issue out of holiness was the reason that the PAW averaged losing 1 Church (by voting in trinity Pastors) OR Pastor (by taking a trinity Church and changing his message) a month to the trinitarian movement.
His statement was "If the Saints don't know the difference between truth and false doctrine it won't be long before they arein false doctrine. It's an easier way and only commitment to truth keeps a man walking a straight path."
Steadfast
03-05-2007, 11:13 AM
Just got a phone call from a Baptist pastor who wants me to preach at a family life conference he is hosting in April.
Go for it! And don't feel 'compelled' to blast them with our doctrine... use God's wisdom and timing and flow with what you feel! Now doesn't that make me sound compromised? I used much wisdom in preaching in a COGIC a few years ago that put just enough hunger in them to want more... so I was invited back... and invited back. Eventually I started dropping 'nuggets' of truth and was winning folks left and right... including the Assistant Pastor and their Head Usher.
Pastor didn't kick up any sand because I had taught him a Bible Study and he knew what I preached was truth. He said, "I can't preach it because they will think I've lied to them in the past."
Obviously he had. But I told him that God would lift him higher in their eyes as one that was willing to walk in more revelation. His policy towards those leaving and going towards truth was, "I can't stop them from obeying what I, myself, have seen as right!"
Go for it, man... get's my Holy Ghost jumping to hear stuff like that!
Hence the ability to fellowship with oneness people I addressed earlier. In some areas the black oneness and COGIC have blended so much that even THEY don't know the difference.
This was a fact that Bishop Golder lamented greatly. In fact, he discussed it and felt that it (fellowshipping false doctrine) and their backing away from making an issue out of holiness was the reason that the PAW averaged losing 1 Church (by voting in trinity Pastors) OR Pastor (by taking a trinity Church and changing his message) a month to the trinitarian movement.
His statement was "If the Saints don't know the difference between truth and false doctrine it won't be long before they arein false doctrine. It's an easier way and only commitment to truth keeps a man walking a straight path."
Wow I didn't even know it was that wide spread.
I know that in Los Angeles, Bishop Jones has joint services with various churches and that many younger guys in PAW, because of his massive success, are following his example.
the distinctions certainly have been clouded. Jones preached at that Azusa celebration last Year at west angeles COGIC (where the PAW and COGIC combined their services!),the title of his message was " the oneness and TRinitarian controversy". I bought the DVD while I was there. I would say that it was a compromise IMO
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