BYE BYE kansas Preacher ! ! ! !

[Thad]

well!! from his own words, he said he was outta here as soon as it passes !

[AmazingGrace]

But....Do you think he will still leave? After all 3 passed too and it kind shoots him in his own foot eventually if he leaves.. or at least it is a possiblity

[Thad]

But....Do you think he will still leave? After all 3 passed too and it kind shoots him in his own foot eventually if he leaves.. or at least it is a possiblity


HE SAID that if TV passes, he was leaving without a doubt

no word on the others being a balancing act

[AmazingGrace]

HE SAID that if TV passes, he was leaving without a doubt

no word on the others being a balancing act

True that he did... we shall see!

[LaVonne]

HE SAID that if TV passes, he was leaving without a doubt

no word on the others being a balancing act

He did...

[AmazingGrace]

He did...


Thats NOT fair Girlfriend!!! He did what??? Leave or... say he would ... left that one open on purpose didnt ya? LOL

[LaVonne]

Thats NOT fair Girlfriend!!! He did what??? Leave or... say he would ... left that one open on purpose didnt ya? LOL

I guess!

He said he would leave if the TV resolution passed...I hope he does!

[LaGirl]

i say if they make threats about leaving...they should make good on their threats and GO!

[Pragmatist]

But....Do you think he will still leave? After all 3 passed too and it kind shoots him in his own foot eventually if he leaves.. or at least it is a possiblity

I'm not seeing how Resolution 3 hurts anyone that leaves because of Resolution 4 passing. How does not wanting to advertise on TV or be associated with an organization that does put you "under question"?

[LaVonne]

i say if they make threats about leaving...they should make good on their threats and GO!

Right, that's what I was meaning. I'm not at all being mean-spirited about it. If you don't like the organization, get out!

[AmazingGrace]

I'm not seeing how Resolution 3 hurts anyone that leaves because of Resolution 4 passing. How does not wanting to advertise on TV or be associated with an organization that does put you "under question"?

Well doesnt this resolution (3) leave it to the determination of the DS? And if so... what if he (person who leaves) does make it known he is leaving and is disgruntled about it.. then they can blackball him or not... pretty much the way this appears to be standing right now they can pretty much say ... Nope dont want you to associate and he would never be able to preach for another upci er again! Or that may not be the case. 3 seems to leave it to the decision of whomever which is wrong! But hey thats how the boat floats... I think that will soon be ammended too who knows

[LaGirl]

Right, that's what I was meaning. I'm not at all being mean-spirited about it. If you don't like the organization, get out!

exactly!

[AmazingGrace]

Right, that's what I was meaning. I'm not at all being mean-spirited about it. If you don't like the organization, get out!

Agreed! We dont need ones fussing and fuming when all they need to do is ultimately hand in that card and go on their merry way!

[lad]

Well doesnt this resolution (3) leave it to the determination of the DS? And if so... what if he (person who leaves) does make it known he is leaving and is disgruntled about it.. then they can blackball him or not... pretty much the way this appears to be standing right now they can pretty much say ... Nope dont want you to associate and he would never be able to preach for another upci er again! Or that may not be the case. 3 seems to leave it to the decision of whomever which is wrong! But hey thats how the boat floats... I think that will soon be ammended too who knows

I don't think the DS out "here" has that much power!!! I would say that the situation would have to go throught the proper "procedure" stated in the manual concerning a "brother in question"...

[Pragmatist]

Well doesnt this resolution (3) leave it to the determination of the DS? And if so... what if he (person who leaves) does make it known he is leaving and is disgruntled about it.. then they can blackball him or not... pretty much the way this appears to be standing right now they can pretty much say ... Nope dont want you to associate and he would never be able to preach for another upci er again! Or that may not be the case. 3 seems to leave it to the decision of whomever which is wrong! But hey thats how the boat floats... I think that will soon be ammended too who knows

It's theoretically possible I guess, just much more likely to have been used the other way. If you leave to start a TV program and the UPC is against TV then you could easily be "under question." If you leave b/c you disagree with allowing TV, there is no "rule" that you could have broken.

[redeemedcynic84]

I don't think that just because people have "issues" with the UPC that they should "get out". Not at all. I would rather see them stay and work to make things better - however and whatever that means to them.

It's when we work "together" that great things and change can be accomplished if indeed change is necessary, because some changes are NOT necessary and some won't necessarily make things better. And again .... I suppose what changes are and aren't necessary and whether or not that makes things better or contrariwise depends on your point of view.

But i definitely do NOT believe that just because you don't agree with everything or like how things are that people should leave.

the only problem with this is that most UPC churches have basically preached a "get with standards or get out" message since day one...

so to back off on that with the org you are in (having the org break what you see as standards) is kind of inconsistent...

The issue is hard-headed legalism, not really what the specific standard in place is... (note: this is in some cases, not all... but the some have others following and then it turns to mob rule and people get carried with the group they are in out the door)

[Esther]

I hope they all pray through over it and stay. :)

[Felicity]

the only problem with this is that most UPC churches have basically preached a "get with standards or get out" message since day one...

so to back off on that with the org you are in (having the org break what you see as standards) is kind of inconsistent...

The issue is hard-headed legalism, not really what the specific standard in place is... (note: this is in some cases, not all... but the some have others following and then it turns to mob rule and people get carried with the group they are in out the door)Haha! You caught that post before I deleted it. You were quick on the draw! ;) :)

[redeemedcynic84]

Haha! You caught that post before I deleted it. You were quick on the draw! ;) :)

I haven't worked in like 4 weeks now.... so I don't have anything better to do but be quick on teh draw...

I was wondering where the post went after I posted my reply though... I thought maybe I put it in the wrong thread or something... lol

[bdlooney]

Right, that's what I was meaning. I'm not at all being mean-spirited about it. If you don't like the organization, get out!

So this only applies to the Conservative brethren? Our message to the more liberated brethren is more like, "Please keep pushing an issue that not everyone wants until you get your way! We have always stood this way but who cares? Change us!"

This is sickening that we don't care that we are possibly losing good brethren over this.

[Esther]

So this only applies to the Conservative brethren? Our message to the more liberated brethren is more like, "Please keep pushing an issue that not everyone wants until you get your way! We have always stood this way but who cares? Change us!"

This is sickening that we don't care that we are possibly losing good brethren over this.

Don't you think we were going to lose good brethern either way?

[redeemedcynic84]

So this only applies to the Conservative brethren? Our message to the more liberated brethren is more like, "Please keep pushing an issue that not everyone wants until you get your way! We have always stood this way but who cares? Change us!"

This is sickening that we don't care that we are possibly losing good brethren over this.

lol

it goes both ways...

maybe the "liberal" brethren just didn't like rules being placed over them and wanted God to be able to lead them to do television if He so choose, rather than have men tell them what they can and can't do...

[LaVonne]

So this only applies to the Conservative brethren? Our message to the more liberated brethren is more like, "Please keep pushing an issue that not everyone wants until you get your way! We have always stood this way but who cares? Change us!"

This is sickening that we don't care that we are possibly losing good brethren over this.

No, I did not say that. Kansas Preacher has been very vocal about leaving when/if Res.4 passes.

[AmazingGrace]

No, I did not say that. Kansas Preacher has been very vocal about leaving when/if Res.4 passes. Frankly, I just get tired of those who feel like they are "too holy" for UPC...jmho.

AMEN

[Coonskinner]

No, I did not say that. Kansas Preacher has been very vocal about leaving when/if Res.4 passes. Frankly, I just get tired of those who feel like they are "too holy" for UPC...jmho.

Carey, the UPC just changed.

KP did not.

If this is a matter of principle and conviction, why speak so harshly about him?

He has not shown an ugly spirit in any way.

He is an honorable man.

[Felicity]

I haven't worked in like 4 weeks now.... so I don't have anything better to do but be quick on teh draw...

I was wondering where the post went after I posted my reply though... I thought maybe I put it in the wrong thread or something... lolI'll repost it so it's not just a quote.

Is the unemployment forced or a choice?

[Felicity]

I don't think that just because people have "issues" with the UPC that they should "get out". Not at all. I would rather see them stay and work to make things better - however and whatever that means to them.

It's when we work "together" that great things and change can be accomplished if indeed change is necessary, because some changes are NOT necessary and some won't necessarily make things better. And again .... I suppose what changes are and aren't necessary and whether or not that makes things better or contrariwise depends on your point of view.

But i definitely do NOT believe that just because you don't agree with everything or like how things are that people should necessarily leave.
__________________

[Esther]

Carey, the UPC just changed.

KP did not.

If this is a matter of principle and conviction, why speak so harshly about him?

He has not shown an ugly spirit in any way.

He is an honorable man.

Agreed.

[redeemedcynic84]

I'll repost it so it's not just a quote.

Is the unemployment forced or a choice?

lol

a little bit of both...

I got out of school... and am not sure what to do...

but am pretty sure that, long term, what I went to school for isn't what i should be doing long term, so I'm deciding if I wanna go back and get a 2nd undergrad, raise my GPA, and consider grad school...

or if, since I don't need college to be a minister in the org I am in currently, to just go with that...

overall I just have no idea where to go/what to do... lol

<--- needs direction, but has a hard time asking for it...

[MissBrattified]

i say if they make threats about leaving...they should make good on their threats and GO!

I say that we shouldn't back folks into corners, and give them room to change their minds. :rolleyes:

[Felicity]

Carey, the UPC just changed.

KP did not.

If this is a matter of principle and conviction, why speak so harshly about him?

He has not shown an ugly spirit in any way.

He is an honorable man.I wish he would not leave. No doubt the man has some influence and if he leaves, it may influence others to do likewise.

[Esther]

I say that we shouldn't back folks into corners, and give them room to change their minds. :rolleyes:

Way to go!

I agree!!!

[Felicity]

I say that we shouldn't back folks into corners, and give them room to change their minds. :rolleyes:Agreed!! :thumbsup

[LaVonne]

Carey, the UPC just changed.

KP did not.

If this is a matter of principle and conviction, why speak so harshly about him?

He has not shown an ugly spirit in any way.

He is an honorable man.

Right, they did.

I do not feel I've spoken harshly against KP. I simply feel that if he wants to leave, then he should.

[Coonskinner]

I wish he would not leave. No doubt the man has some influence and if he leaves, it may influence others to do likewise.

I hate to see him go too.

He is my friend though, and fortunately we will continue to be friends anyway.

I do completely understand his decision.

[Coonskinner]

Right, they did.

I do not feel I've spoken harshly against KP. I simply feel that if he wants to leave, then he should.

If he wasn't targeted by your remark about being too holy for the UPC, then pardon the misunderstanding.

[LaVonne]

I say that we shouldn't back folks into corners, and give them room to change their minds. :rolleyes:

I'm sure this is the better way! I admit, I am worked up a bit today...have not meant to cause offense in any way.

[bdlooney]

Don't you think we were going to lose good brethern either way?

I would be lamenting the same if it were the more liberal brethren. I don't think we would see as many exit but that is my opinion.

[LaVonne]

If he wasn't targeted by your remark about being too holy for the UPC, then pardon the misunderstanding.

Oh, I forgot about that. :D

Actually, I was not thinking of him when I typed that in...but there are many UC's who feel this way, I know some of them.

My apologies...I'll try to edit my post.

[Strongminded]

well!! from his own words, he said he was outta here as soon as it passes !

THAD I am grossly disappointed in you!
Kansas Preacher is a very good man and a very good friend to not only myself by many on here.
I called him and talked to him for a long time and begged him no to leave....We need men like him to maintain balance!!!!!

You need to apologize NOW!

We do not need any casualties from this!

I love ya man...but this was very gross on your part!

[Strongminded]

So this only applies to the Conservative brethren? Our message to the more liberated brethren is more like, "Please keep pushing an issue that not everyone wants until you get your way! We have always stood this way but who cares? Change us!"

This is sickening that we don't care that we are possibly losing good brethren over this.

At least you admit we are Liberated...think about what you are saying.....
Just stay on your traditions and bondage Bro...Ill choose Liberated any day.

Bro. Haney has been VERY VOCAL at this conference that he hopes that those with attitude leave.

[LaVonne]

I hate to see him go too.

He is my friend though, and fortunately we will continue to be friends anyway.

I do completely understand his decision.

I dont' know him, I know that makes a HUGE difference. I'm sure if I knew him I'd feel differently.

[Strongminded]

So this only applies to the Conservative brethren? Our message to the more liberated brethren is more like, "Please keep pushing an issue that not everyone wants until you get your way! We have always stood this way but who cares? Change us!"

This is sickening that we don't care that we are possibly losing good brethren over this.

"ALWAYS STOOD THIS WAY"???
Bro. Wake up!!!!!!

We only stood this way after 1977~~~~

[Esther]

At least you admit we are Liberated...think about what you are saying.....
Just stay on your traditions and bondage Bro...Ill choose Liberated any day.

Bro. Haney has been VERY VOCAL at this conference that he hopes that those with attitude leave.

Wow, are you sure???

[Strongminded]

Carey, the UPC just changed.

KP did not.

If this is a matter of principle and conviction, why speak so harshly about him?

He has not shown an ugly spirit in any way.

He is an honorable man.

UGH!!!

The UPC did not change....just came out of the closet.
IF you would fellowship outside your circle...you would see it is true!

Lova ya!

[bdlooney]

At least you admit we are Liberated...think about what you are saying.....
Just stay on your traditions and bondage Bro...Ill choose Liberated any day.

Bro. Haney has been VERY VOCAL at this conference that he hopes that those with attitude leave.

I am not in Tampa and I only caught the last half hour of his message last night but I find it hard to believe that he would say that from the position he occupies. But I may be wrong.

[Felicity]

UGH!!!

The UPC did not change....just came out of the closet.
IF you would fellowship outside your circle...you would see it is true!

Lova ya!He lets some outside his circle in bro, and they are blessed as a result. ;) :)

[Strongminded]

Wow, are you sure???

Thats no secret!
He does not want to lose anybody...but he knows atitude is not from the throne and he HATES disunity!

[LaVonne]

Wow, are you sure???

I'm curious too...maybe I'm not so wicked after all! :D

[Strongminded]

He lets some "outside the circle" in bro. ;) :)

I know sis...but not from a minister to minister status.

[LaVonne]

He lets some "outside the circle" in bro. ;) :)

I'm so glad you're there Felicity!

Forgive my negativity...this is why I wasn't posting for so long..maybe i need to go back into hiding.

[Barb]

I agree with all here who advise waiting...moving in haste is never a good move, not in the long run.

[Thad]

THAD I am grossly disappointed in you!
Kansas Preacher is a very good man and a very good friend to not only myself by many on here.
I called him and talked to him for a long time and begged him no to leave....We need men like him to maintain balance!!!!!

You need to apologize NOW!

We do not need any casualties from this!

I love ya man...but this was very gross on your part!


okay i apologize
i'm not sure what for ...what are you saying i did wrong?

I wasn't rejoycing more kidding around KSpreacher and i have been poking at each other for a long time you know ?

in all serious, im sad he's leaving

[Esther]

I agree with all here who advise waiting...moving in haste is never a good move, not in the long run.

Very, very true!

[Barb]

I'm so glad you're there Felicity!

Forgive my negativity...this is why I wasn't posting for so long..maybe i need to go back into hiding.

Ditto!! :saycheese

[Felicity]

I'm so glad you're there Felicity!

Forgive my negativity...this is why I wasn't posting for so long..maybe i need to go back into hiding.I am having the most awesome time!

We were some of the last ones out of the Forum last night. LOL. :)

[Sarah]

I wish he would not leave. No doubt the man has some influence and if he leaves, it may influence others to do likewise.

This is the way I feel too, Felicity. I hate to see anyone, on either "side" leave, unless they feel as though they just absolutely can't stay in, for whatever reason.

[LaVonne]

I am having the most awesome time!

We were some of the last ones out of the Forum last night. LOL. :)

Yeah...I'm happy it's a positive experience for you!!! :)

[AmazingGrace]

I am having the most awesome time!

We were some of the last ones out of the Forum last night. LOL. :)

So so so I have to ask... yall thinking about coming back??? Huh huh huh AFF minds want to know!! LOL

I am too so glad yall are having agood time!

[Felicity]

I'm so glad you're there Felicity!

Forgive my negativity...this is why I wasn't posting for so long..maybe i need to go back into hiding.No you don't need to go back into hiding. You have every right to express your feelings and your opinion.

I'd just hate to think that someone was wishing for me to leave because I wasn't in agreement with everything. There has to be room for diversity.

It's possible to hold a different point of view but still work together for unity and to make things better like I said earlier. If I was in the UPC this would be my attitude. I'd want to work together with others and use my influence in a positive way. At the same time not compromising my own personal convictions if something became an issue.

[Barb]

No you don't need to go back into hiding. You have every right to express your feelings and your opinion.

I'd just hate to think that someone was wishing for me to leave because I wasn't in agreement with everything. There has to be room for diversity.

It's possible to hold a different point of view but still work together for unity and to make things better like I said earlier. If I was in the UPC this would be my attitude. I'd want to work together with others and use my influence in a positive way. At the same time not compromising my own personal convictions if something became an issue.

Isn't this how the org was formed in the beginning?! I sure think so, sis...

[revrandy]

I will say that Kansas Preacher is a man of principle tempered by kindness and compassion... I doubt he will pushed into a corner by any of this...

I have never met him personally but have talked here and other places with him and found him to be a Good Man...

[LaVonne]

No you don't need to go back into hiding. You have every right to express your feelings and your opinion.

I'd just hate to think that someone was wishing for me to leave because I wasn't in agreement with everything. There has to be room for diversity.

It's possible to hold a different point of view but still work together for unity and to make things better like I said earlier. If I was in the UPC this would be my attitude. I'd want to work together with others and use my influence in a positive way. At the same time not compromising my own personal convictions if something became an issue.

hahahaha....I'm laughing, because I don't feel that way at all!!! There are things about UPC I don't agree with or even like, but they sure have the doctrine right and I don't go around making threats to leave either. (well, maybe only in private!)

I guess my whole point is that if someone is going to complain about UPC and then make threats to leave they probably should

[Thad]

*** ATTENTION BRO RIGGEN***


This thread was meant in Fun and kidding around. You know that we've cut up before and had fun on other threads. I realize that some are really upset right now and very sober about the passing of the vote. I am sorry if this thread was offensive in any way- it was not meant to be.

Ilove you and hope the very best in whatever your decision is !

[IBCrazier2]

*** ATTENTION BRO RIGGEN***


This thread was meant in Fun and kidding around. You know that we've cut up before and had fun on other threads. I realize that some are really upset right now and very sober about the passing of the vote. I am sorry if this thread was offensive in any way- it was not meant to be.

Ilove you and hope the very best in whatever your decision is !


good boy Thad

[Coonskinner]

I know sis...but not from a minister to minister status.


That is not exactly so.

I preach for men and have had men preach for me who are considerably to the left of where I stand.

[Felicity]

No you don't need to go back into hiding. You have every right to express your feelings and your opinion.

I'd just hate to think that someone was wishing for me to leave because I wasn't in agreement with everything. There has to be room for diversity.

It's possible to hold a different point of view but still work together for unity and to make things better like I said earlier. If I was in the UPC this would be my attitude. I'd want to work together with others and use my influence in a positive way. At the same time not compromising my own personal convictions if something became an issue.For example, those who have an issue with the TV thing don't have to advertise; neither do they need to okay its usage. But they can still stay in fellowship with the rest of the body (UPC body) and work to maintain their more conservative views and positions.

We need this. We need it in order to achieve and maintain balance. I've come to very much appreciate and respect my brothers and sisters who are more "conservative" than I might be in some areas.

My best closest friend (Pastor's wife from back home) is very conservative. Do you find that surprising? LOL! :D


(Just wanted to clarify what I meant by the last statement I bolded in the quoted post above.)

[Coonskinner]

KP has a great sense of humor and is in no way thin-skinned.

[Steadfast]

That is not exactly so.

I preach for men and have had men preach for me who are considerably to the left of where I stand.

I agree... it never stopped you for preaching for me! :hypercoffee

[Steadfast]

KP has a great sense of humor and is in no way thin-skinned.

I seriously, seriously, seriously hope that KP rethinks his decision. He's way too good a man to get out there away from the fellowship of the good men among us.

I like and respect Kansas Preacher... there is a GREAT need for men like him among us. Without men of his stature this organization will not have the 'checks and balances' that we need.

[Coonskinner]

I agree... it never stopped you for preaching for me! :hypercoffee

You and me stand on pretty much the same piece of ground. :)

[Neck]

well!! from his own words, he said he was outta here as soon as it passes !

See Ya!

[Thad]

good boy Thad


good boy ??????

[J-Roc]

I'll repost it so it's not just a quote.

Is the unemployment forced or a choice?

I don't think that just because people have "issues" with the UPC that they should "get out". Not at all. I would rather see them stay and work to make things better - however and whatever that means to them.

It's when we work "together" that great things and change can be accomplished if indeed change is necessary, because some changes are NOT necessary and some won't necessarily make things better. And again .... I suppose what changes are and aren't necessary and whether or not that makes things better or contrariwise depends on your point of view.

But i definitely do NOT believe that just because you don't agree with everything or like how things are that people should necessarily leave.
__________________



However, you added the word "necessarily" so as to cover your situation. :poloroid :saycheese


Just funnin', Sis.

[IBCrazier2]

My question is, do we look at the way certain people treated and such and do likewise? i have seen 1st hand how family members were treated when they moved over an hour away from the uc church and went to a less conservative church that was in the small city where they moved.


I dispise the holier than thou attitudes that i have seen. At this point it takes everything I have to just go to church muchless want to be involved with all of this junk.

[IBCrazier2]

good boy ??????

Just saying I was proud of your remarks.

[Steadfast]

See Ya!

Neckstadt, I appreciate a lot of what you say... just not this statement. Those who make statements like we've seen on this thread seemingly fail to see the spiritual value of people who operate on convictions instead of random opinions.

Men like Kansas Preacher - whom I do know personally - move and live on convictions. We have a great need for that or all we'll have left are people can find it easy to reason spiritual values away.

Men like that should have a right to (a) stand where their convictions mandate it and (b) walk on from days like today with the liberty to say, "Maybe I can try to hang on a little longer.'

Surely you know the value of those elements among us.

KP is a GOOD man. His kind are every bit as valuable as men like Anthony Mangun. Anthony, himself, has the class and understanding to tell you that.

WHAT WOULD WE - OR ANY MOVEMENT BE - WITHOUT MEN OF SPIRITUAL CONVICTION? Well, just look at the outer fringes of this forum and you'll find out.

Bless you, friend.

[Steadfast]

For example, those who have an issue with the TV thing don't have to advertise; neither do they need to okay its usage. But they can still stay in fellowship with the rest of the body (UPC body) and work to maintain their more conservative views and positions.

We need this. We need it in order to achieve and maintain balance. I've come to very much appreciate and respect my brothers and sisters who are more "conservative" than I might be in some areas.

My best closest friend (Pastor's wife from back home) is very conservative. Do you find that surprising? LOL! :D


(Just wanted to clarify what I meant by the last statement I bolded in the quoted post above.)


Felicity, are you still at Conference? I was hoping to cross paths with you this week!

[Coonskinner]

Neckstadt, I appreciate a lot of what you say... just not this statement. Those who make statements like we've seen on this thread seemingly fail to see the spiritual value of people who operate on convictions instead of random opinions.

Men like Kansas Preacher - whom I do know personally - move and live on convictions. We have a great need for that or all we'll have left are people can find it easy to reason spiritual values away.

Men like that should have a right to (a) stand where their convictions mandate it and (b) walk on from days like today with the liberty to say, "Maybe I can try to hang on a little longer.'

Surely you know the value of those elements among us.

KP is a GOOD man. His kind are every bit as valuable as men like Anthony Mangun. Anthony, himself, has the class and understanding to tell you that.

WHAT WOULD WE - OR ANY MOVEMENT BE - WITHOUT MEN OF SPIRITUAL CONVICTION? Well, just look at the outer fringes of this forum and you'll find out.

Bless you, friend.


This is about as well as it could be said.

[rgcraig]

Neckstadt, I appreciate a lot of what you say... just not this statement. Those who make statements like we've seen on this thread seemingly fail to see the spiritual value of people who operate on convictions instead of random opinions.

Men like Kansas Preacher - whom I do know personally - move and live on convictions. We have a great need for that or all we'll have left are people can find it easy to reason spiritual values away.

Men like that should have a right to (a) stand where their convictions mandate it and (b) walk on from days like today with the liberty to say, "Maybe I can try to hang on a little longer.'

Surely you know the value of those elements among us.

KP is a GOOD man. His kind are every bit as valuable as men like Anthony Mangun. Anthony, himself, has the class and understanding to tell you that.

WHAT WOULD WE - OR ANY MOVEMENT BE - WITHOUT MEN OF SPIRITUAL CONVICTION? Well, just look at the outer fringes of this forum and you'll find out.

Bless you, friend.However, he's the one that said he would leave.

[Felicity]

Felicity, are you still at Conference? I was hoping to cross paths with you this week!Yes, we're still here and will be 'till the end!

I/We would LOVE to meet you! It would be an honour and a privilege for me if you would be willing -- or interested. :)

[J-Roc]

However, he's the one that said he would leave.

Yes, but I think Steadfast was pointing out that KP should be given deference to change his mind and say, I paraphrase "maybe I can hang around a bit more..."

[rgcraig]

Yes, we're still here and will be 'till the end!

I/We would LOVE to meet you! It would be an honour and a privilege for me if you would be willing -- or interested. :)

I think he's already expressed he'd like your paths to cross.....:poloroid

[rgcraig]

Yes, but I think Steadfast was pointing out that KP should be given deference to change his mind and say, I paraphrase "maybe I can hang around a bit more..."

I didn't see that in his post at all - he was explaining why Neck shouldn't show him the door.

[J-Roc]

I didn't see that in his post at all - he was explaining why Neck shouldn't show him the door.



Yeah, he said it:

Steadfast:

"Men like that should have a right to (a) stand where their convictions mandate it and (b) walk on from days like today with the liberty to say, "Maybe I can try to hang on a little longer.' "

[Kansas Preacher]

Wow! I'm impressed. NINE WHOLE PAGES on a thread started about me.

For those who "hope" I will leave, you will get your wish.

Thad, I NEVER said, "as soon as it passes." I only stated that I WILL leave. That is my intention. I have been telling that the easiest way to leave is to let your dues lapse. It requires no action on the part of the District Board. It is just automatic. My plan has been to let that process work. My dues are paid through the end of the year. That would mean I won't be dropping out until the first of the year.

I have been reconsidering, however. I have been watching the UPCI drift towards liberalism for many years. (I prayed through in a United Pentecostal Church more than 35 years ago, and have been licensed/ordained for more than 25 of those years.) It has grieved me, but I have been unable to stop it. Yesterday, with the passage of Resolution 4, something in me died. This whole process has been, for me, like watching a loved one with a terminal disease. Even though you know it's coming, you still don't cherish the fact that they finally passed away. The problem for me now is, if I wait until my dues lapse, I won't be able to "bury" this loved one for three more months. In other words, there will be no "closure" for me until I am out of the organization.

I have wept genuine tears. I have been heartbroken. I do not rejoice that I am leaving (although others evidently ARE rejoicing over that fact). Nevertheless, it is something I feel I MUST do.

For those who are interested, I posted the following on another forum. I will "cut and paste" for the benefit of those who "hope" I leave.

Leaving the United Pentecostal Church after being a part (as either a saint in a local assembly, or a licensed minister) for more than 35 years is not an easy thing for me. It is not something I have longed for, desired, hoped for, or wanted. I have watched this drift and grieved.

I was a new convert when the Hanby/Phillips issue was raging. I wrote a letter to Mark Hanby (I was only 14) telling me how it broke my heart (literally) to learn he was advertising on TV. I told him of the double standard that it created. I was DEEPLY hurt by his decision. If the United Pentecostal Church had voted to accept television advertising in the 1970's, I would never have sought license in the first place. Now that it has reversed its stand, I do not feel I can remain a member.
I will not leave with a bad spirit. I will not leave with a rotten attitude. I will not go out "bashing" the UPC. I want to retain the fond memories I have. The UPC has been GOOD to me in MANY ways. I have served in positions from the sectional level to the national level (as a member of the General Board). I want to remember it for the good it has done. I will not criticize those who remain in. (In fact, I have counseled young men NOT to jump because others are.)

I see it like this: If I leave now, I can do so with a right spirit and attitude. If I wait, I may grow bitter. That's a chance I am not willing to take.

[triumphant1]

Wow! I'm impressed. NINE WHOLE PAGES on a thread started about me.

For those who "hope" I will leave, you will get your wish.

Thad, I NEVER said, "as soon as it passes." I only stated that I WILL leave. That is my intention. I have been telling that the easiest way to leave is to let your dues lapse. It requires no action on the part of the District Board. It is just automatic. My plan has been to let that process work. My dues are paid through the end of the year. That would mean I won't be dropping out until the first of the year.

I have been reconsidering, however. I have been watching the UPCI drift towards liberalism for many years. (I prayed through in a United Pentecostal Church more than 35 years ago, and have been licensed/ordained for more than 25 of those years.) It has grieved me, but I have been unable to stop it. Yesterday, with the passage of Resolution 4, something in me died. This whole process has been, for me, like watching a loved one with a terminal disease. Even though you know it's coming, you still don't cherish the fact that they finally passed away. The problem for me now is, if I wait until my dues lapse, I won't be able to "bury" this loved one for three more months. In other words, there will be no "closure" for me until I am out of the organization.

I have wept genuine tears. I have been heartbroken. I do not rejoice that I am leaving (although others evidently ARE rejoicing over that fact). Nevertheless, it is something I feel I MUST do.

For those who are interested, I posted the following on another forum. I will "cut and paste" for the benefit of those who "hope" I leave.


I will not leave with a bad spirit. I will not leave with a rotten attitude. I will not go out "bashing" the UPC. I want to retain the fond memories I have. The UPC has been GOOD to me in MANY ways. I have served in positions from the sectional level to the national level (as a member of the General Board). I want to remember it for the good it has done. I will not criticize those who remain in. (In fact, I have counseled young men NOT to jump because others are.)

I see it like this: If I leave now, I can do so with a right spirit and attitude. If I wait, I may grow bitter. That's a chance I am not willing to take.

KP, what about your church folks...how do they feel about no longer being UPC or have you not approached that yet?

[Kansas Preacher]

KP, what about your church folks...how do they feel about no longer being UPC or have you not approached that yet?

The church I pastor was started by a UPC preacher 25 years ago. He stayed three years. He was succeed by a man who was raised independent. He had joined the UPC before taking the church, but instilled no sense of loyalty to the organization in the people. I've been here 11 1/2 years now. The people don't care if I'm in the UPC or not.

[rgcraig]

I really wonder if God is that upset about the passing of this resolution?

Has the move of His Spirit stopped flowing in the services since this was passed?

I would think if it was such a terrible thing, his heart would be grieved and he'd remove his annointing on the ministers still preaching and no one would be feeling his beautiful spirit in the services.

[Dora]

So...Felicity,

Are you and your husband really getting back in the UPC...as in getting re-licensed with the UPC???

If so, will your church be like Dan Rigdon's Church, or like Life Tabernacle in Houston or like Nate Wilson's church in California or follow Vaughn Morton's style of pastoring?

Do tell!!!

[triumphant1]

The church I pastor was started by a UPC preacher 25 years ago. He stayed three years. He was succeed by a man who was raised independent. He had joined the UPC before taking the church, but instilled no sense of loyalty to the organization in the people. I've been here 11 1/2 years now. The people don't care if I'm in the UPC or not.

I can't blame you for leaving especially if your people are in agreement and such....

[Steve Epley]

I spoke to a preacher friend from Alabama who went to conference he is going unaffiliated his church then give up his license.

[Thad]

I spoke to a preacher friend from Alabama who went to conference he is going unaffiliated his church then give up his license.


and your opinion on all this is ??

[Steve Epley]

I feel sorry for men who has spent their entire lives in an organization that has left them like the Democratic party has left Zell Miller. It will not be easy with all the connections. But some separations are evidently of the Lord.

[Thad]

I feel sorry for men who has spent their entire lives in an organization that has left them like the Democratic party has left Zell Miller. It will not be easy with all the connections. But some separations are evidently of the Lord.

wooooooooow weeee! steve Epley said this is of the LOrd!!!!

[Steve Epley]

wooooooooow weeee! steve Epley said this is of the LOrd!!!!

There is much going on in Pentecost right now and yes I think it is of the Lord. God as an eagle is stirring the nest. Those organizational lines that once were a barrier are melting and likeminded men are seeking each other out much like those as the tower of Babel sought those out who spoke their language. Fellowship now will be determined by the message-life-ethics of the preacher NOT a card. That day is over thank the Lord.

[CC1]

I feel sorry for men who has spent their entire lives in an organization that has left them like the Democratic party has left Zell Miller. It will not be easy with all the connections. But some separations are evidently of the Lord.

We agree on your last sentence. There will be more unity for all. The ultra cons who despised the video screens, music, etc will be happier with those who think like them and the mods and libs will be happier without always having to defer to the weaker brothers to keep unity.

[Steve Epley]

We agree on your last sentence. There will be more unity for all. The ultra cons who despised the video screens, music, etc will be happier with those who think like them and the mods and libs will be happier without always having to defer to the weaker brothers to keep unity.

Water seeks it's own level. But I do feel for men who have spent their entire lives inside the UPC to have it change on them. But they will find out there is life outside the UPC.

[tv1a]

It happened in 1992 for the other side.

Water seeks it's own level. But I do feel for men who have spent their entire lives inside the UPC to have it change on them. But they will find out there is life outside the UPC.

[Steve Epley]

It happened in 1992 for the other side.

I do somewhat understand that however when they got their license the app. was very clear about most of those things. Only the Atlantic district came in without agreeing to what the app specifies with maybe the exception of those who were originally part of the merger.