View Full Version : The Eulogy Begins
Elihu
09-29-2007, 11:42 AM
Astonishing Commentary from Friday
An older lady was standing with me today, openly weeping as she said: "Today I have lost my heritage.....the heritage that I have had all my life."
Another elder told me: "I can make it, I'm almost retired. It is you young guys that I'm worried about."
We shall look back upon this day with astonishment. We have seen history today.
(name removed) epilogue:
Those who ignore history in the pursuit of a mis-perceived destiny, are destined to fail.
My sympathies to those who thought they were helping the UPCI progress, but will instead help preside over its demise.
BTW, as I left the Marriott today, Clint Brown and Tommy Tenney were arriving with their entourages. Are the vultures arriving already?
With sorrow in my heart, I thank God that my father didn't live to see this day and be broken-hearted.
is this how you feel about it or just the words of someone else ?
Brett Prince
09-29-2007, 11:46 AM
Astonishing Commentary from Friday
As the old men wept, for good reason, a new day dawned and the vitality of the faith of the young men was invigorated. They had not seen the glory of the former days, but yet they DID embrace a great glory as they witnessed the construction of a newer, lesser temple. Yes, I share your fears, but I don't believe this has to be the end.
Could it be the beginning of the end? Maybe, but only if those who loved the beginning abandon ship.
Could it be the end of the beginning? Certainly, and that would mean many great days are ahead.
Hide and watch. God will still be on the throne tomorrow, and the next day and the next. And if the UPC is no longer the right instrument, then God will use another. It shall be well.
It SHALL be WELL.
ThePastorsCoach
09-29-2007, 11:47 AM
Is this a joke or are you trying to be serious? Over the right to advertise your church and take your message to the world? Give me a break!
Brett Prince
09-29-2007, 11:48 AM
Is this a joke or are you trying to be serious? Over the right to advertise your church and take your message to the world? Give me a break!
I can sure you he wasn't joking, but the comments were much too meladramatic for me.
Elihu
09-29-2007, 11:49 AM
This is a quote from a very concerned conservative. The quote is not my own.
This is a quote from a very concerned conservative. The quote is not my own.
but how do you feel about it personally ?
BoredOutOfMyMind
09-29-2007, 11:52 AM
Amazing in the last 24 hrs every conservative is hung out to dry and all the liberals are drooling with glee.
:evilglee
ThePastorsCoach
09-29-2007, 11:55 AM
Amazing in the last 24 hrs every conservative is hung out to dry and all the liberals are drooling with glee.
:evilglee
And the rest of the church world thinks you guys don't have anything better to do than to go into depression because someone wants to advertise on TV. Good Grief!
StillStanding
09-29-2007, 11:55 AM
This older lady's heritage was built on not putting the Apostolic message on TV????
Sounds like a very shallow heritage to me!
I say don't sweat the small stuff, and save your energy for the REAL battles! :)
StillStanding
09-29-2007, 11:57 AM
Amazing in the last 24 hrs every conservative is hung out to dry and all the liberals are drooling with glee.
:evilglee
Had the vote gone the opposite way, the same could be said in reverse!!
BoredOutOfMyMind
09-29-2007, 11:59 AM
Had the vote gone the opposite way, the same could be said in reverse!!
I wonder.
Seems there is Zero talk on this on CAF.
:saycheese
This has been the MAIN topic here for a year. Give it up already.
Nahum
09-29-2007, 11:59 AM
BOOM, I really haven't seen anyone gloating today.
I do think if the vote had gone the other way, a few hardcore cons would be pushing libs out as fast and furious as they could.
I have no desire to push anyone out.
I just want to be left alone.
This older lady's heritage was built on not putting the Apostolic message on TV????
Sounds like a very shallow heritage to me!
I say don't sweat the small stuff, and save your energy for the REAL battles! :)
amen .. amen ... and amen.
Had the vote gone the opposite way, the same could be said in reverse!!
BOOM ... examine. FAIR AND BALANCED.
Thadisdaman
09-29-2007, 12:00 PM
Thank you Jesus for open minded people who are ready to take this gospel message outside the 4 walls and use every resource available to do it. Call them liberals if you want, but I call them revivalist.
ThePastorsCoach
09-29-2007, 12:01 PM
This older lady's heritage was built on not putting the Apostolic message on TV????
Sounds like a very shallow heritage to me!
I say don't sweat the small stuff, and save your energy for the REAL battles! :)
We are working at getting people off drugs, helping marriages stay together, keeping our teens in school, feeding hungry kids that thier parents are smoking crack and meth, helping unwed mothers and children without fathers, providing a safe place for people that have been abused by CRAZY PREACHERS and churches and YOU ARE DEPRESSED ABOUT SOMEONE ADVERTISING ON TV!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It makes me mad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tell her to go buy some Bread and milk and deliver it to a homeless person in Tampa. Tell her to go give a hungry child some food. This is sick to me that people are losing their minds over the right to advertise on TV. You guys need to get a LIFE!
BOOM, I really haven't seen anyone gloating today.
I do think if the vote had gone the other way, a few hardcore cons would be pushing libs out as fast and furious as they could.
I have no desire to push anyone out.
I just want to be left alone.
This sir is the difference between both sides ... one wants dialogue, fellowship and tolerance ... the other would have used resolution 3 to set up witch trials to excommunicate brethren .... almost immediately after GC.
Thadisdaman
09-29-2007, 12:04 PM
hello
Headline in the Atlanta times today. I wonder if it is sign
Girl, 7, killed by falling TV
This is funny??? I'd love the parents of this girl to read your quote.
BoredOutOfMyMind
09-29-2007, 12:06 PM
BOOM, I really haven't seen anyone gloating today.
I do think if the vote had gone the other way, a few hardcore cons would be pushing libs out as fast and furious as they could.
I have no desire to push anyone out.
I just want to be left alone.
See post #18.
Nahum
09-29-2007, 12:07 PM
Headline in the Atlanta times today. I wonder if it is sign
Girl, 7, killed by falling TV
Your post is outrageously insensitive and embarrassing.
Where is your compassion?
Your post is outrageously insensitive and embarrasing.
Where is your compassion?
Disgusting.
ThePastorsCoach
09-29-2007, 12:10 PM
If you don't want to advertise - DON'T!
If you want to advertise - DO!
To post on here that Tommy Tenney and Clint Brown have visited the General Conference and it is the vultures circling overhead - is NUTS! I mean this borders stupidity if not insanity.
I really think that some of these guys need to go sit down with a councilor and try to find out the root of their problem. To have a nervous breakdown and to be weeping in the hall ways over someone putting an ad on TV - is close to insanity!!!!!!!!!
Nahum
09-29-2007, 12:10 PM
See post #18.
I agree with that post.
One elder stood up during the push to amend the resolution, and bemoaned the fact that enforcement was impossible. He was truly grieved over the fact that we cannot punish men with tv's.
I promise you, if this minority would have won, and could convince the body not to riot, they would actually enter men's homes and search for tv's in the hopes of bringing them up on charges.
If that doesn't sound like Salem, I don't know what does.
Thadisdaman
09-29-2007, 12:11 PM
Amen Bishop
BoredOutOfMyMind
09-29-2007, 12:16 PM
I agree with that post.
One elder stood up during the push to amend the resolution, and bemoaned the fact that enforcement was impossible. He was truly grieved over the fact that we cannot punish men with tv's.
I promise you, if this minority would have won, and could convince the body not to riot, they would actually enter men's homes and search for tv's in the hopes of bringing them up on charges.
If that doesn't sound like Salem, I don't know what does.
They don't enforce the rules on TV NOW... the alarmism you have here is disturbing. Totally out of control on your behalf.
This sir is the difference between both sides ... one wants dialogue, fellowship and tolerance ... the other would have used resolution 3 to set up witch trials to excommunicate brethren .... almost immediately after GC.
I agree with that post.
One elder stood up during the push to amend the resolution, and bemoaned the fact that enforcement was impossible. He was truly grieved over the fact that we cannot punish men with tv's.
I promise you, if this minority would have won, and could convince the body not to riot, they would actually enter men's homes and search for tv's in the hopes of bringing them up on charges.
If that doesn't sound like Salem, I don't know what does.
They don't enforce the rules on TV NOW... the alarmism you have here is disturbing. Totally out of control on your behalf.
Post # 18 is truth ... the Cons have a history ... see 1992. It is one of exclusion and intolerance ... the witch trials would have started within weeks.
ThePastorsCoach
09-29-2007, 12:19 PM
Sounds like some want to make the UPC a Police State!
Nahum
09-29-2007, 12:20 PM
They don't enforce the rules on TV NOW... the alarmism you have here is disturbing. Totally out of control on your behalf.
Hey Bro, don't get mad at me.
I know a man who turned his father-in-law in because he had an elder relative living in his basement with a tv. They took the man's license.
This is not a rumor, it is fact.
There was talk on the floor of enforcement. How would they enforce it without entering the home?
I agree with that post.
One elder stood up during the push to amend the resolution, and bemoaned the fact that enforcement was impossible. He was truly grieved over the fact that we cannot punish men with tv's.
I promise you, if this minority would have won, and could convince the body not to riot, they would actually enter men's homes and search for tv's in the hopes of bringing them up on charges.
If that doesn't sound like Salem, I don't know what does.
I know more than one pastor who has had "house inspections" to check the saint's closets
If it's good enough for the saints, why not the preachers ???
Nahum
09-29-2007, 12:22 PM
Fort Worth, Texas 2007
See "Texas Tornado" thread.
A man almost lost his church because his website mentioned his favorite tv shows.
He had to disaffiliate his church, and remove the tv to survive a lengthy "trial" process.
Nahum
09-29-2007, 12:23 PM
I know more than one pastor who has had "house inspections" to check the saint's closets
If it's good enough for the saints, why not the preachers ???
I think that is called breaking and entering.
There are federal laws against that.
crakjak
09-29-2007, 12:24 PM
I know more than one pastor who has had "house inspections" to check the saint's closets
If it's good enough for the saints, why not the preachers ???
This has got to be some extreme fringe, I was in the UPC for 35 years and never was aware of any such cultist activity.
The whole thread is over the top, you guys must be bored.
BoredOutOfMyMind
09-29-2007, 12:25 PM
Hey Bro, don't get mad at me.
I know a man who turned his father-in-law in because he had an elder relative living in his basement with a tv. They took the man's license.
This is not a rumor, it is fact.
There was talk on the floor of enforcement. How would they enforce it without entering the home?
Flaunting that you have 62 inch screens in your living room and distribution of DVDs are totally different than what you describe. IF the man had no other charges, then this would be strong, but I would trust that DB used procedures.
Nahum
09-29-2007, 12:27 PM
Flaunting that you have 62 inch screens in your living room and distribution of DVDs are totally different than what you describe. IF the man had no other charges, then this would be strong, but I would trust that DB used procedures.
Wasn't DB.
Who flaunted a 62 inch screen tv?
The man had no other charges, zero.
This has got to be some extreme fringe, I was in the UPC for 35 years and never was aware of any such cultist activity.
The whole thread is over the top, you guys must be bored.
I promise you before almighty G-D it happend here in CA. not too far from where i live .
the wife even looked thru the women's closets to tell the ladies what could stay and what had to go
ThePastorsCoach
09-29-2007, 12:27 PM
This whole deal is Crazy - preachers having nervous breakdowns and weeping in the hall ways and talk of becoming CHARISMATIC because someone wants to advertise their church?
You guys need to move to the inner city and plant a church and do what Jesus said to do instead of playing church in a building that someone gave you!
Nahum
09-29-2007, 12:28 PM
I have heard men say, in the past month, that they would bring someone up on charges over tv if they knew for sure they had one in their home.
I know more than one pastor who has had "house inspections" to check the saint's closets
If it's good enough for the saints, why not the preachers ???
Fort Worth, Texas 2007
See "Texas Tornado" thread.
A man almost lost his church because his website mentioned his favorite tv shows.
He had to disaffiliate his church, and remove the tv to survive a lengthy "trial" process.
This would've happened on a wider scale and frenzied pace had the TV resolution failed ...
The zealots armed with resolution 3 would have pressured district boards WITHIN DAYS to begin to blacklist those who ARE IN QUESTION.
Res 3 ... gives district boards wider and more defined police powers.
MissBrattified
09-29-2007, 12:29 PM
Let's be fair: Some UC's have been hanging liberals out to dry and refusing to befriend them or fellowship them for some time. Obviously there is no love lost from either side. I firmly believe if 4 hadn't passed, #3 would have promptly been used to remove dissenters. JMHO
Flaunting that you have 62 inch screens in your living room and distribution of DVDs are totally different than what you describe. IF the man had no other charges, then this would be strong, but I would trust that DB used procedures.
Boom,
I was just a teen in high schhol but recall in the early 80s when they preached that "MONITORS" were going to be the demise of Pentecost.
Now, all these same preachers probably have computers with DVD players. what's the difference ?? no one even knows what a monitor is anymore- at least the youth don't
BoredOutOfMyMind
09-29-2007, 12:32 PM
This whole deal is Crazy - preachers having nervous breakdowns and weeping in the hall ways and talk of becoming CHARISMATIC because someone wants to advertise their church?
You guys need to move to the inner city and plant a church and do what Jesus said to do instead of playing church in a building that someone gave you!
AB, my Father-in-law worked 50 hrs a week, Pastored, and served as a District Official.
He knocked doors and was tireless in trying to get people to live for God. Not all men are intent on kingdoms, some are intent on seeing people saved.
Nahum
09-29-2007, 12:33 PM
AB, my Father-in-law worked 50 hrs a week, Pastored, and served as a District Official.
He knocked doors and was tireless in trying to get people to live for God. Not all men are intent on kingdoms, some are intent on seeing people saved.
Amen BOOM.
BoredOutOfMyMind
09-29-2007, 12:33 PM
Let's be fair: Some UC's have been hanging liberals out to dry and refusing to befriend them or fellowship them for some time. Obviously there is no love lost from either side. I firmly believe if 4 hadn't passed, #3 would have promptly been used to remove dissenters. JMHO
I see #3 as way more scary than #4.
Let's be fair: Some UC's have been hanging liberals out to dry and refusing to befriend them or fellowship them for some time. Obviously there is no love lost from either side. I firmly believe if 4 hadn't passed, #3 would have promptly been used to remove dissenters. JMHO
It was designed for greater enforcement ... something the cons have been whining about for years ... especially when they realized the AS did not have the power they intended ... the power to police then would be given to the district boards.
Nahum
09-29-2007, 12:34 PM
I see #3 as way more scary than #4.
I have a feeling it will be brought up again next year.
TRIPLE E
09-29-2007, 12:36 PM
This older lady's heritage was built on not putting the Apostolic message on TV????
Sounds like a very shallow heritage to me!
I say don't sweat the small stuff, and save your energy for the REAL battles! :)
I say we better sweat the small stuff it is the little foxes that spoil the vines!
redeemedcynic84
09-29-2007, 12:44 PM
I see #3 as way more scary than #4.
resolution #3 is only scary if the ultra cons are in charge...
with the moderates and the liberals in control, resolution #3 is not scary at all, IMO...
ThePastorsCoach
09-29-2007, 12:48 PM
AB, my Father-in-law worked 50 hrs a week, Pastored, and served as a District Official.
He knocked doors and was tireless in trying to get people to live for God. Not all men are intent on kingdoms, some are intent on seeing people saved.
I am really not sure what to make of this. Is this a rebuke?
I have spent my life working at saving people - I don't have time to worry about someone advertising on TV or thinking the UPC is going to the dogs because someone wants to take the Acts 2:38 message to their community.
I am not trying to offend anyone - it just seems totally insane to people outside your movement that people are losing their minds and weeping in the hallways and writing Eulogy's over advertising on TV!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why don't they do something about their preachers looking at porn on the INTERNET!
Nahum
09-29-2007, 12:48 PM
resolution #3 is only scary if the ultra cons are in charge...
with the moderates and the liberals in control, resolution #3 is not scary at all, IMO...
Mods and libs are not "in control."
We are still a very, very, very, conservative and traditional organization.
Anyone who thinks the UPC became lib overnight is delusional.
Their are certain ideologies deeply entrenched in us - a way of thinking that is woven into the fabric of our cognitive processes.
BoredOutOfMyMind
09-29-2007, 12:51 PM
Mods and libs are not "in control."
We are still a very, very, very, conservative and traditional organization.
Anyone who thinks the UPC became lib overnight is delusional.
Their are certain ideologies deeply entrenched in us - a way of thinking that is woven into the fabric of our cognitive processes.
I would hope the new TV spots for sale don't have the effect of the UPC going lib overnight.
It will be at least 6 months.
Pastor Keith
09-29-2007, 12:55 PM
And the rest of the church world thinks you guys don't have anything better to do than to go into depression because someone wants to advertise on TV. Good Grief!
Never more truer words spoken.
Telling in many statements of where their security lies, if people are shaken over this what will happen when Apostasy really happens.
redeemedcynic84
09-29-2007, 12:57 PM
Mods and libs are not "in control."
We are still a very, very, very, conservative and traditional organization.
Anyone who thinks the UPC became lib overnight is delusional.
Their are certain ideologies deeply entrenched in us - a way of thinking that is woven into the fabric of our cognitive processes.
ok, first of all, a "liberal UPC" person is a UC in the grand scheme of things...
What I'm saying is the people who are going to want to search people's houses for television sets and blacklist as many peopel as possible aren't in control (and, seemingly, are on thier way to leaving en masse)...
The UPC will not turn to liberal because there are few, if any, true liberals in the UPC... We're going to be liberal compared to how we have traditionally been, but not in the grand scheme of things...
JaneEyre
09-29-2007, 12:58 PM
Pardon my ignorance, but is the resolution solely for advertising or will it be permissible for UPC churches to have services broadcast on TV? I thought I read that on another thread.
MissBrattified
09-29-2007, 01:02 PM
Pardon my ignorance, but is the resolution solely for advertising or will it be permissible for UPC churches to have services broadcast on TV? I thought I read that on another thread.
Well, the resolution is so vague, that the time of the "ad" isn't limited, so it could very well be an hour long "infomercial" with singing, preaching, etc. and still fall in line with the terms of the resolution.
MissBrattified
09-29-2007, 01:03 PM
I see #3 as way more scary than #4.
Me 2; I think Daniel called it the Witch Hunt Resolution, and for once...I agree with him. :depressed
ThePastorsCoach
09-29-2007, 01:04 PM
Could someone post the resolution?
Nahum
09-29-2007, 01:04 PM
MIssB,
The resolution is not vague at all.
The only thing forbidden is having an unaltered tv in your home.
All forms of ads and preaching are acceptable. No time limits at all.
Men could own tv stations now.
JaneEyre
09-29-2007, 01:04 PM
Well, the resolution is so vague, that the time of the "ad" isn't limited, so it could very well be an hour long "infomercial" with singing, preaching, etc. and still fall in line with the terms of the resolution.
SO, the ad might be stretched to be an actual church service.
Thanks.
BoredOutOfMyMind
09-29-2007, 01:09 PM
Could someone post the resolution?
It is in another thread.
James Griffin
09-29-2007, 01:12 PM
Had the vote gone the opposite way, the same could be said in reverse!!
Had the vote gone the other way the talk would have been of ex-communication not voluntary leaving
James Griffin
09-29-2007, 01:17 PM
Mods and libs are not "in control."
We are still a very, very, very, conservative and traditional organization.
Anyone who thinks the UPC became lib overnight is delusional.
Their are certain ideologies deeply entrenched in us - a way of thinking that is woven into the fabric of our cognitive processes.
Matter of perspective and the trouble with labels a moderate UPC would be an ULTRAconservative to the majority of the world
James Griffin
09-29-2007, 01:20 PM
MIssB,
The resolution is not vague at all.
The only thing forbidden is having an unaltered tv in your home.
All forms of ads and preaching are acceptable. No time limits at all.
Men could own tv stations now.
With technology TV as we know it will be obsolete in a few years anyway. Just a monitor on the wall. Internet, TV, and telecommunications basically inseparable. CLose to that now.
Could someone post the resolution?
This is how it read last year ... I don't think major changes were made to it as Resolution 4.
http://respiracreative.com/resolution.jpg
ThePastorsCoach
09-29-2007, 01:22 PM
The Charismatic pastor here in town told me - "Your church is already known as the most Conservative church in town". I asked "why" He said - "You wife wears dresses to church and you wear a suit on Sundays".
ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nahum
09-29-2007, 01:40 PM
The Charismatic pastor here in town told me - "Your church is already known as the most Conservative church in town". I asked "why" He said - "You wife wears dresses to church and you wear a suit on Sundays".
ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't know if comparing ourselves to others is wise.
The Charismatic pastor here in town told me - "Your church is already known as the most Conservative church in town". I asked "why" He said - "You wife wears dresses to church and you wear a suit on Sundays".
ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
most black churches still do and your church IS BLACK don't you ever forget that
lisafitzh2o
09-29-2007, 01:51 PM
Mods and libs are not "in control."
We are still a very, very, very, conservative and traditional organization.
Anyone who thinks the UPC became lib overnight is delusional.
Their are certain ideologies deeply entrenched in us - a way of thinking that is woven into the fabric of our cognitive processes.
So very true! Did anyone look at the men on the General Board? These guys are the Superintendents of every district. The General Board is made up of many "very, very conservative and traditional" men (in the words of Pastor Poster). Not that I put my faith in MEN instead of God, but I feel these guys will do everything they can do prevent the UPC from becoming "liberal". I'm really not concerned.
That's my two cents' worth.
By the church world' standards alone, we are to the Right of Right ultra orthodox conservative. To the world, we are almost on par with the mennonites. i don't say that as a put down as i am one of them. just stating what really is the mindset. maybe we don't have as much to fear? i don't know. I know we are not as spiritual as we once were but not sure if rules alone will bring about spiritual renewal either
StillStanding
09-29-2007, 01:56 PM
So very true! Did anyone look at the men on the General Board? These guys are the Superintendents of every district. The General Board is made up of many "very, very conservative and traditional" men (in the words of Pastor Poster). Not that I put my faith in MEN instead of God, but I feel these guys will do everything they can do prevent the UPC from becoming "liberal". I'm really not concerned.
That's my two cents' worth.
I agree with you! But......this is the first time that the conservative wing of the UPCI has tried to show their strength and failed. This shows that the power has swung to the moderates, which are still very conservative!!!!
I STILL see the UPCI has extremely conservative!!! The UPC will NEVER be a liberal church organization!
Nahum
09-29-2007, 02:04 PM
I agree with you! But......this is the first time that the conservative wing of the UPCI has tried to show their strength and failed. This shows that the power has swung to the moderates, which are still very conservative!!!!
I STILL see the UPCI has extremely conservative!!! The UPC will NEVER be a liberal church organization!
PM, bro, I wish I believed that.
Too much water under the bridge though.
This older lady's heritage was built on not putting the Apostolic message on TV????
Sounds like a very shallow heritage to me!
I say don't sweat the small stuff, and save your energy for the REAL battles! :)
Exactly. It shows how warped some peoples view of Christianinty is. When you have so much invested in extreme seperatism and legalism this is the result.
mfblume
09-29-2007, 02:07 PM
Is this a joke or are you trying to be serious? Over the right to advertise your church and take your message to the world? Give me a break!
I totally agree. This always gets funnier, though. And that is sad.
Sheltiedad
09-29-2007, 02:38 PM
Just this thermos, no television, and Acts 2:38, and that's all we need. We don't need anything else... Oh, and this lamp. This thermos, no television, Acts 2:38, and this lamp... And that's all we need.
Brett Prince
09-29-2007, 03:13 PM
Your post is outrageously insensitive and embarrassing.
Where is your compassion?
amen. Thadisdaman, Seems like you need to pray...maybe...through?
chosenbyone
09-29-2007, 03:31 PM
As the old men wept, for good reason, a new day dawned and the vitality of the faith of the young men was invigorated. They had not seen the glory of the former days, but yet they DID embrace a great glory as they witnessed the construction of a newer, lesser temple. Yes, I share your fears, but I don't believe this has to be the end.
Could it be the beginning of the end? Maybe, but only if those who loved the beginning abandon ship.
Could it be the end of the beginning? Certainly, and that would mean many great days are ahead.
Hide and watch. God will still be on the throne tomorrow, and the next day and the next. And if the UPC is no longer the right instrument, then God will use another. It shall be well.
It SHALL be WELL.''
Great post!
chosenbyone
09-29-2007, 03:35 PM
I know more than one pastor who has had "house inspections" to check the saint's closets
If it's good enough for the saints, why not the preachers ???
I am glad we're friends because this would have bothered me if I didn't feel that it was written TIC.
Evang.Benincasa
09-29-2007, 03:45 PM
I totally agree. This always gets funnier, though. And that is sad.
As funny as a mouth full of gold teeth. :)
J-Roc
09-29-2007, 03:49 PM
I know more than one pastor who has had "house inspections" to check the saint's closets
If it's good enough for the saints, why not the preachers ???
WOW, THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS!
Evang.Benincasa
09-29-2007, 03:52 PM
WOW, THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS!
Whoa, hold on; remember where you're reading this information and the dude who is reporting it.
Evang.Benincasa
09-29-2007, 03:54 PM
I know more than one pastor who has had "house inspections" to check the saint's closets
If it's good enough for the saints, why not the preachers ???
More than ONE? Where do you get this stuff from?
J-Roc
09-29-2007, 03:57 PM
Mods and libs are not "in control."
We are still a very, very, very, conservative and traditional organization.
Anyone who thinks the UPC became lib overnight is delusional.
Their are certain ideologies deeply entrenched in us - a way of thinking that is woven into the fabric of our cognitive processes.
It sounds like you are describing a Borg....huh? :sshhh
Nahum
09-29-2007, 04:01 PM
It sounds like you are describing a Borg....huh? :sshhh
Yes.
I probably shouldn't comment further.
J-Roc
09-29-2007, 04:08 PM
Whoa, hold on; remember where you're reading this information and the dude who is reporting it.
Are you suggesting that the AFF allows for calumnious remarks to be made...Thad often comes across as someone with "inside scoop"....is it allowed for him to come with damaging information if it is not true?
Evang.Benincasa
09-29-2007, 04:20 PM
Are you suggesting that the AFF allows for calumnious remarks to be made...Thad often comes across as someone with "inside scoop"....is it allowed for him to come with damaging information if it is not true?
I shudder to think if anyone takes that stuff for truth.
Praxeas
09-29-2007, 04:23 PM
Astonishing Commentary from Friday
My sympathies to the Papal wannabes who are stuck in traditional paradigm thinking and can't see the forest for the trees.
Rome forced a one way of thinking upon all churches, or else. The codified it, but it in creeds and said unless you think this way, you can not be in the church. You MUST think this way, believe this way and be this way to be part of our group. It is law. It is codified therefore if our forefathers believed it, it must be true and if so then it must be true for us. To think outside of that box is to be a heretic. The RCC was and is unchangeable. Rather as a solution people left her. But they fell to the same mistakes in thinking in codifying law and even in adhering to previous codified laws making belief in things like the Trinity mandatory.
When we were part of the AOG it was held by all that there would be no codification of any view other than what the bible specifically says. Because this allowed others to introduce Jesus name baptism and Oneness of the godhead, the Trinitarians in the AOG, who were the majority, felt THEIR "heritage" was being threatened and never for a moment would they dare entertain the idea that perhaps their heritage was wrong in some areas.
And what did the AOG do to us forward thinkers who dared to go against the traditional thinking and heritage of us Pentecostals? They marginalized us and forced us to leave. Their new creed insisted God is a Trinity for all of us. It attempted to think for us, just like Rome did.
This new resolution only allows those that want to, to be able to use TV to advertise. It does not force anyone to approve of TV usage for themselves or their congregations.
Our heritage being the UPC sounds messed up to me. It always did. Putting that much emotional attachment into an organization of men seems counter to biblical Christianity. Should not our heritage be the word of God?
J-Roc
09-29-2007, 04:31 PM
WOW, THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS!
Whoa, hold on; remember where you're reading this information and the dude who is reporting it.
Are you suggesting that the AFF allows for calumnious remarks to be made...Thad often comes across as someone with "inside scoop"....is it allowed for him to come with damaging information if it is not true?
I shudder to think if anyone takes that stuff for truth.
Well, I find it disturbing if it were true that most of what Thad reports are just stuff made up in his mind as if this forum were "The Inquirer" and that he would be allowed to spread lies as a form of personal entertainment when many things he shares could be damaging in one form or another...I hope Thad can clarify this. :telephone
philjones
09-29-2007, 04:31 PM
This sir is the difference between both sides ... one wants dialogue, fellowship and tolerance ... the other would have used resolution 3 to set up witch trials to excommunicate brethren .... almost immediately after GC.
Hogwash! Every statement here is tainted with your bias against and apparent disgust with anything traditional.
The libs don't want dialogue unless it is to make room for their ideas.
The libs only want fellowship if there is nothing expected of them while they expect the Cons to never mention what they really believe.
The libs only want tolerance for their views. They want the views of the conservatives to be silenced and not brought forward so that "unity" can be accomplished.
I think you know that I am in favor of unity but I can assure you that garbage posts like the one above do NOTHING to facilitate it.
I repeat, Hogwash!
philjones
09-29-2007, 04:34 PM
I agree with that post.
One elder stood up during the push to amend the resolution, and bemoaned the fact that enforcement was impossible. He was truly grieved over the fact that we cannot punish men with tv's.
I promise you, if this minority would have won, and could convince the body not to riot, they would actually enter men's homes and search for tv's in the hopes of bringing them up on charges.
If that doesn't sound like Salem, I don't know what does.
Blatant Hysterical Hilarious Speculation...
Scott Hutchinson
09-29-2007, 04:34 PM
PRAX,I agree with you our heritage should be what Jesus Christ started at the cross.
But I understand where UCs could feel hurt,and I certainly won't mock them.
triumphant1
09-29-2007, 04:34 PM
Hogwash! Every statement here is tainted with your bias against and apparent disgust with anything traditional.
The libs don't want dialogue unless it is to make room for their ideas.
The libs only want fellowship if there is nothing expected of them while they expect the Cons to never mention what they really believe.
The libs only want tolerance for their views. They want the views of the conservatives to be silenced and not brought forward so that "unity" can be accomplished.
I think you know that I am in favor of unity but I can assure you that garbage posts like the one above do NOTHING to facilitate it.
I repeat, Hogwash!
Wow Bro...I think this was somewhat of an overreaction...could it be that there are plenty of people on both sides of any issue that have tolerance for oposing veiws as well...why does it have to be either/or?
philjones
09-29-2007, 04:36 PM
Post # 18 is truth ... the Cons have a history ... see 1992. It is one of exclusion and intolerance ... the witch trials would have started within weeks.
More speculation! It is almost amusing if it weren't so counterproductive to unity.
philjones
09-29-2007, 04:37 PM
Sounds like some want to make the UPC a Police State!
Sounds like Dan and PP should be reporters for the drive by media.
Maybe CNN is hiring... they love biased reporting and spin doctors with an agenda!
Scott Hutchinson
09-29-2007, 04:38 PM
I'll step up to the plate for Elder PJ.Me and him do talk on the phone and he is one of the most compassionate people I have talked to.
His heartbeat for the lost and backslidders, is truly filled with compassion.
triumphant1
09-29-2007, 04:42 PM
I'll step up to the plate for Elder PJ.Me and him do talk on the phone and he is one of the most compassionate people I have talked to.
His heartbeat for the lost and backslidders, is truly filled with compassion.
I do not doubt this at all...
Nahum
09-29-2007, 04:43 PM
Blatant Hysterical Hilarious Speculation...
Brother Jones, I am sorry you are so upset, however I truly believe what I posted.
For instance, as resolution three was being debated, an elder (don't know his name) stood in opposition to an amendment that would have totally erased the "under question" language from the bylaws.
He stated that we needed to be able to control who was in our pulpits (the organization), and that he was worried about our purity.
This was said while we debated res #3. A resolution that would prohibit someone who has been divorced, suffered financial difficulty, or any other "questionable" issues, from preaching in my church.
The entire idea was CONTROL.
There is a very small minority who want control.
They will not control the pulpit of the church I pastor.
Phil, if I wanted you to preach in my church, and you agreed to come, they would have the right to call me before the board now.
I find that despicable.
Nahum
09-29-2007, 04:44 PM
Sounds like Dan and PP should be reporters for the drive by media.
Maybe CNN is hiring... they love biased reporting and spin doctors with an agenda!
Bro, please stop with your attacks.
I have every right to post my opinions.
I do not understand your anger toward me.
I assure you it is misplaced.
dizzyde
09-29-2007, 04:46 PM
QUOTE=Praxeas;
Our heritage being the UPC sounds messed up to me. It always did. Putting that much emotional attachment into an organization of men seems counter to biblical Christianity. Should not our heritage be the word of God?
If only......
philjones
09-29-2007, 04:47 PM
I agree with you! But......this is the first time that the conservative wing of the UPCI has tried to show their strength and failed. This shows that the power has swung to the moderates, which are still very conservative!!!!
I STILL see the UPCI has extremely conservative!!! The UPC will NEVER be a liberal church organization!
I wish I could agree with your last statement but I do not think I can. Well... maybe I can because it is relative and the world may never reach bottom so the UPCI may well remain "relatively" conservative.
My comment above has nothing to do with the passage of TV advertising... it has to do with a mindset.
dizzyde
09-29-2007, 04:47 PM
More than ONE? Where do you get this stuff from?
From living in CA. Obviously you don't.
Nahum
09-29-2007, 04:49 PM
Bro, please stop with your attacks.
I have every right to post my opinions.
I do not understand your anger toward me.
I assure you it is misplaced.
Brother Jones,
I would appreciate an apology.
Otherwise I will report your post to admin. Please debate the issue, and not my character - or lack of character.
triumphant1
09-29-2007, 04:50 PM
Brother Jones, I am sorry you are so upset, however I truly believe what I posted.
For instance, as resolution three was being debated, an elder (don't know his name) stood in opposition to an amendment that would have totally erased the "under question" language from the bylaws.
He stated that we needed to be able to control who was in our pulpits (the organization), and that he was worried about our purity.
This was said while we debated res #3. A resolution that would prohibit someone who has been divorced, suffered financial difficulty, or any other "questionable" issues, from preaching in my church.
The entire idea was CONTROL.
There is a very small minority who want control.
They will not control the pulpit of the church I pastor.
Phil, if I wanted you to preach in my church, and you agreed to come, they would have the right to call me before the board now.
I find that despicable.
They already had that right!!
Res 3 did not change the policy of putting people under question and forbiding UPC preacher....!!!
4 years ago they put ME out under question, 3 months later I had a UPC preacher scheduled to preach for me from Arkansas....he decided to keep the scheduled service.....his Dist Super called him and told him that my former Dist was pressing charges because they saw him announced on my church's website....and they monitor my website to make sure I don't announce UPC preachers....
BECAUSE THEY PUT ME OUT UNDER QUESTION!
THis has been the policy for decades...all res 3 did was define "under question" and "conduct unbecoming a minister"....other thsan those definitions, resolution 3 changed nothing else!!!
Nahum
09-29-2007, 04:55 PM
Brother Jones,
I have recieved so many personal threats for voicing simple opinions (that now the majority of men in the org have embraced).
Don't tell me there aren't men who are spiteful and devoid of any sense of tolerance and brotherhood.
I have experienced it firsthand Sir.
They already had that right!!
Res 3 did not change the policy of putting people under question and forbiding UPC preacher....!!!
4 years ago they put ME out under question, 3 months later I had a UPC preacher scheduled to preach for me from Arkansas....he decided to keep the scheduled service.....his Dist Super called him and told him that my former Dist was pressing charges because they saw him announced on my church's website....and they monitor my website to make sure I don't announce UPC preachers....
BECAUSE THEY PUT ME OUT UNDER QUESTION!
THis has been the policy for decades...all res 3 did was define "under question" and "conduct unbecoming a minister"....other thsan those definitions, resolution 3 changed nothing else!!!
We've discussed this before ... your situation not withstanding .... and that of others ... this resolution defined the parameters to give districts broader oowers ....
it streamlined a process for every district ... defined under question ... and allows the entire board of every district to be arbiters in these situations .... allowing for factionalism, IMO
triumphant1
09-29-2007, 05:02 PM
We've discussed this before ... your situation not withstanding .... and that of others ... this resolution defined the parameters to give districts broader oowers ....
it streamlined a process for every district ... defined under question ... and allows the entire board of every district to be arbiters in these situations .... allowing for factionalism, IMO
But they were already doing it....these act as though it is a new thing that a preacher can't preach for them who is under question....like this resolution gives some sort of new pulpit control..
When it comes to District boards putting a guy out "under question or conduct unbecoming"...and then policing the pulpit of the local church...nothing new happens now!
They have been the arbiters in these situations for decades...only without a clear definition of what the terms listed in the manual actually mean...but those terms and this authority to refuse certain preachers from preaching at certain churches...is still the same.
rgcraig
09-29-2007, 05:03 PM
Huge loss of FOCUS seems to be running rampant!!!
philjones
09-29-2007, 05:03 PM
Let me say that there is no anger in any of my posts. I apologize for MY opinions being viewed as hurtful while I cannot view your opinons the same way. It seems to me that the conservative side is being painted as intolerant and attacking while the libs are being painted as the epitome of tolerance and openness to other views. My friend, that JUST AIN"T TRUE!!!!
I am simply pointing out that there is no proof whatsoever that any of what you or Daniel have said would happen on a large scale. It is PURELY speculation... you call it opinion... and I agree it is opinion based on speculation not fact.
I too am very concerned over the fact that Resolution 3 has such potential for abuse... but that article has always had that potential. It now just has a clearer definition to be used as the foundation of that abuse. If it hasn't been used in that manner up to now... it probably won't be going forward.
There are districts that have already used it abusively in the past. I have cited a FACTUAL example of one district in several different posts since its passage.
I just don't like to see either side make these kind of statements or employ innuendo in the discussion of the issues. It is counterproductive to the goal of you and Dan A and me... that is unity. You guys are stirring up just as much strife as those from the other side.
I just weep that we cannot look at a post like the one that started this thread and empathize... we don't have to agree... but we should be able to feel for the pain of this person. We certainly shouldn't make light of them or mock them or do anything to belittle them.
I don't have all the answers but I know that what has gone on in this thread, including my comments for which I again apologize, is not one of them.
philjones
09-29-2007, 05:07 PM
Brother Jones,
I would appreciate an apology.
Otherwise I will report your post to admin. Please debate the issue, and not my character - or lack of character.
PP,
I have already posted an apology.. I do not see where I attacked your character or or indicated a lack thereof. Obviously I did say some things that were untoward and I apologize for that.
Now, in the words of Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along?":)
Sheltiedad
09-29-2007, 05:07 PM
I think the reason people can't see eye to eye here is the liberals feel like they have straightened a picture on the wall, while the conservatives feel like someone just demolished a whole wall... it is hard for either side to comprehend the other.
rgcraig
09-29-2007, 05:09 PM
I think the reason people can't see eye to eye here is the liberals feel like they have straightened a picture on the wall, while the conservatives feel like someone just demolished a whole wall... it is hard for either side to comprehend the other.
Excellent analogy!
Evang.Benincasa
09-29-2007, 05:10 PM
Well, I find it disturbing if it were true that most of what Thad reports are just stuff made up in his mind as if this forum were "The Inquirer" and that he would be allowed to spread lies as a form of personal entertainment when many things he shares could be damaging in one form or another...I hope Thad can clarify this. :telephone
J-Roc you have it all down, and brother you know the deal. The way some of those reports sound you think our churches were on the same level as "The Hills Have Eyes" or the "Texas Chainsaw Massacre."
philjones
09-29-2007, 05:11 PM
Brother Jones,
I have recieved so many personal threats for voicing simple opinions (that now the majority of men in the org have embraced).
Don't tell me there aren't men who are spiteful and devoid of any sense of tolerance and brotherhood.
I have experienced it firsthand Sir.
Elder,
they do exist... on both sides of most issues.
Some liberals are not tolerant of conservatives any more than some conservatives are not tolerant of liberals.
I just want that to be brought out as we go forward so this is not a thread that makes every conservative out to be an intolerant ogre and every mod/lib out to be the all embracing saint! It just ain't so!
Evang.Benincasa
09-29-2007, 05:13 PM
Elder,
they do exist... on both sides of most issues.
Some liberals are not tolerant of conservatives any more than some conservatives are not tolerant of liberals.
I just want that to be brought out as we go forward so this is not a thread that makes every conservative out to be an intolerant ogre and every mod/lib out to be the all embracing saint! It just ain't so!
Ain't that the truth.
Newman
09-29-2007, 05:19 PM
Rome forced a one way of thinking upon all churches, or else. The codified it, but it in creeds and said unless you think this way, you can not be in the church. You MUST think this way, believe this way and be this way to be part of our group. It is law. It is codified therefore if our forefathers believed it, it must be true and if so then it must be true for us. To think outside of that box is to be a heretic. The RCC was and is unchangeable. Rather as a solution people left her. But they fell to the same mistakes in thinking in codifying law and even in adhering to previous codified laws making belief in things like the Trinity mandatory.
When we were part of the AOG it was held by all that there would be no codification of any view other than what the bible specifically says. Because this allowed others to introduce Jesus name baptism and Oneness of the godhead, the Trinitarians in the AOG, who were the majority, felt THEIR "heritage" was being threatened and never for a moment would they dare entertain the idea that perhaps their heritage was wrong in some areas.
And what did the AOG do to us forward thinkers who dared to go against the traditional thinking and heritage of us Pentecostals? They marginalized us and forced us to leave. Their new creed insisted God is a Trinity for all of us. It attempted to think for us, just like Rome did.
This new resolution only allows those that want to, to be able to use TV to advertise. It does not force anyone to approve of TV usage for themselves or their congregations.
Our heritage being the UPC sounds messed up to me. It always did. Putting that much emotional attachment into an organization of men seems counter to biblical Christianity. Should not our heritage be the word of God?
Great post! :cool:
Brett Prince
09-29-2007, 05:20 PM
Elder,
they do exist... on both sides of most issues.
Some liberals are not tolerant of conservatives any more than some conservatives are not tolerant of liberals.
I just want that to be brought out as we go forward so this is not a thread that makes every conservative out to be an intolerant ogre and every mod/lib out to be the all embracing saint! It just ain't so!
Yea, verily.
But they were already doing it....these act as though it is a new thing that a preacher can't preach for them who is under question....like this resolution gives some sort of new pulpit control..
When it comes to District boards putting a guy out "under question or conduct unbecoming"...and then policing the pulpit of the local church...nothing new happens now!
They have been the arbiters in these situations for decades...only without a clear definition of what the terms listed in the manual actually mean...but those terms and this authority to refuse certain preachers from preaching at certain churches...is still the same.
Once again we all know it's not new ... but it the resolution was amended w/ a specific purpose, T1.
But they were already doing it....these act as though it is a new thing that a preacher can't preach for them who is under question....like this resolution gives some sort of new pulpit control..
When it comes to District boards putting a guy out "under question or conduct unbecoming"...and then policing the pulpit of the local church...nothing new happens now!
They have been the arbiters in these situations for decades...only without a clear definition of what the terms listed in the manual actually mean...but those terms and this authority to refuse certain preachers from preaching at certain churches...is still the same.
The clearer definitions were necessary to create an assembly line for excommunications ... prior the ambiguity and vagueness slowed down to process ... guys would appeal ... have others advocate ... debate, etc.
This was designed to sharpen the tool for cons to pressure boards to take swift and decisive actions against undesirables post-TV resolution defeat.
The complaint has always been enforcement ... and this would have enabled the Inquisition.
Nahum
09-29-2007, 05:25 PM
Elder,
they do exist... on both sides of most issues.
Some liberals are not tolerant of conservatives any more than some conservatives are not tolerant of liberals.
I just want that to be brought out as we go forward so this is not a thread that makes every conservative out to be an intolerant ogre and every mod/lib out to be the all embracing saint! It just ain't so!
I totally agree.
I'll tell you a story that proves your point.
I have a cousin who is part of a fledgling org of about 300 churches and 500 ministers. He knows, as do many others, that I had been unhappy with my current situation.
My discontent had nothing to do with the UPC, it was borne from the animosity spewed toward from a small minority of men within the org.
When I have used phrases like "It's time to escape the borg", or "the spirit of abortion" I was addressing that minority of men who made things so strained.
Anyway, I have been exploring all options - that is no secret.
My cousin contacted his superintendent. The superintendent wanted to meet me, with the purpose of bringing me on board in an official leadership capacity with the org.
We talked. I found his ideology was too liberal for me. He was too tolerant of things I considered false doctrine. Long story short - I turned it down.
Well, I continue to be pressured to leave where I am at. I mean doctrinally.
IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!!!!
So, Brother Jones, I agree. I have been privy to control issues on both sides of the aisle. The thing is, this past week is remarkable because it's the first time I have seen the conservative side lose on any control issue.
I am not gloating, but I will admit to being relieved.
philjones
09-29-2007, 05:31 PM
I'll step up to the plate for Elder PJ.Me and him do talk on the phone and he is one of the most compassionate people I have talked to.
His heartbeat for the lost and backslidders, is truly filled with compassion.
Bro. Scott,
Thanks for stepping up to the plate for me. Your kindness is appreciated even though I don't deserve it. I was wrong in some of what I said.. I sometimes just say things that would be better left unsaid. That is why I always cover my crow with strawberry jam before I send him out... I may end up having to eat him.:D
triumphant1
09-29-2007, 05:32 PM
Once again we all know it's not new ... but it the resolution was amended w/ a specific purpose, T1.
The clearer definitions were necessary to create an assembly line for excommunications ... prior the ambiguity and vagueness slowed down to process ... guys would appeal ... have others advocate ... debate, etc.
This was designed as sharpening the tool for cons to pressure boards to take swift and decisive actions against undesirables post-TV resolution defeat.
The complaint has always been enforcement ... and this would have enabled the Inquisition.
I don't see how the clearer definition can give them any more power in inquisition than they used against me...LOL...so I guess I just have a hard time seeing the issue here...
Maybe there is one...I don't know...
Maybe they will have more power to go after someone....I don't see how...
I think that many UPC preachers didn't know about this particular policy and that's what has them upset...I know I have family who didn't really know that the District can keep someone from preaching for them under this policy...
So to me, it has just shed new light on an old policy...and now there are preachers who are saying, "What?"....
philjones
09-29-2007, 05:34 PM
Once again we all know it's not new ... but it the resolution was amended w/ a specific purpose, T1.
The clearer definitions were necessary to create an assembly line for excommunications ... prior the ambiguity and vagueness slowed down to process ... guys would appeal ... have others advocate ... debate, etc.
This was designed to sharpen the tool for cons to pressure boards to take swift and decisive actions against undesirables post-TV resolution defeat.
The complaint has always been enforcement ... and this would have enabled the Inquisition.
Dan,
I too have fears that some of this may happen... and I do agree that the definitions were streamlined somewhat... but, as evidenced by T1, if it hasn't been happening in a given district I doubt it will begin just because of the amending of the article.
Dan,
I too have fears that some of this may happen... and I do agree that the definitions were streamlined somewhat... but, as evidenced by T1, if it hasn't been happening in a given district I doubt it will begin just because of the amending of the article.
And my point is this ... it most likely won't happen now as the cons have lost considerable amount of control ... they were hoping to energize and sanitize the org after this TV issue was defeated once and for all ....
Furthermore there is some question about how it passed on the floor at GC.
Nahum
09-29-2007, 05:38 PM
I totally agree.
I'll tell you a story that proves your point.
I have a cousin who is part of a fledgling org of about 300 churches and 500 ministers. He knows, as do many others, that I had been unhappy with my current situation.
My discontent had nothing to do with the UPC, it was borne from the animosity spewed toward from a small minority of men within the org.
When I have used phrases like "It's time to escape the borg", or "the spirit of abortion" I was addressing that minority of men who made things so strained.
Anyway, I have been exploring all options - that is no secret.
My cousin contacted his superintendent. The superintendent wanted to meet me, with the purpose of bringing me on board in an official leadership capacity with the org.
We talked. I found his ideology was too liberal for me. He was too tolerant of things I considered false doctrine. Long story short - I turned it down.
Well, I continue to be pressured to leave where I am at. I mean doctrinally.
IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!!!!
So, Brother Jones, I agree. I have been privy to control issues on both sides of the aisle. The thing is, this past week is remarkable because it's the first time I have seen the conservative side lose on any control issue.
I am not gloating, but I will admit to being relieved.
Bump for Brother Jones
philjones
09-29-2007, 05:43 PM
Bump for Brother Jones
PP,
Thanks for providing the balanced example. I am considering a group that is left of the UPC on standards but on target on the doctrine.
I am seeking the release I need in the Holy Ghost before I send in my application.
I appreciate your prayers as I make what is for me a monumental decision.
Nahum
09-29-2007, 05:44 PM
PP,
Thanks for providing the balanced example. I am considering a group that is left of the UPC on standards but on target on the doctrine.
I am seeking the release I need in the Holy Ghost before I send in my application.
I appreciate your prayers as I make what is for me a monumental decision.
You will have them.
Godspeed!
J-Roc
09-29-2007, 06:19 PM
PP,
Thanks for providing the balanced example. I am considering a group that is left of the UPC on standards but on target on the doctrine.
I am seeking the release I need in the Holy Ghost before I send in my application.
I appreciate your prayers as I make what is for me a monumental decision.
Whic group is this? :sshhh
redeemedcynic84
09-29-2007, 06:26 PM
PP,
Thanks for providing the balanced example. I am considering a group that is left of the UPC on standards but on target on the doctrine.
I am seeking the release I need in the Holy Ghost before I send in my application.
I appreciate your prayers as I make what is for me a monumental decision.
wait...
wouldn't "left of the UPC" = less standards???
Evang.Benincasa
09-29-2007, 06:27 PM
PP,
Thanks for providing the balanced example. I am considering a group that is left of the UPC on standards but on target on the doctrine.
I am seeking the release I need in the Holy Ghost before I send in my application.
I appreciate your prayers as I make what is for me a monumental decision.
I love you Brother, I just need to understand something. Why are you leaving the UPCI and going to an organization that would be left of UPCI standards?
I love you Brother, I just need to understand something. Why are you leaving the UPCI and going to an organization that would be left of UPCI standards?
He never said he just left the UPCI ... EB ...
Evang.Benincasa
09-29-2007, 07:16 PM
He never said he just left the UPCI ... EB ...
Oh, I'm so sorry Dan, having trouble reading? I never said that he left.
Oh, I'm so sorry Dan, having trouble reading? I never said that he left.
No .. my decoding skillz are SOLID .. YO!!!
I love you Brother, I just need to understand something. Why are you leaving the UPCI and going to an organization that would be left of UPCI standards
I am glad we're friends because this would have bothered me if I didn't feel that it was written TIC.
chosenbyone, It was NOT TIC. i promise before almighty G-D i am telling you the awful truth on this one.
I love you Brother, I just need to understand something. Why are you leaving the UPCI and going to an organization that would be left of UPCI standards?
EB,
Philjones has not been a member of the UPC for many years. He has posted in the past about a failing many, many, years ago when he was a young man that keeps him from holding license in the UPC.
He still has many close associations with the UPC though and has been a part of churches that are essentially just like the UPC.
He is very conservative but probably not conservative enough to be an AMFer and he certainly is not lib enough to be a Global guy!
WOW, THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS!
J roc, it really did occur nevermind what Benny says.why he's trying to undermine me i dont know but If i gave some of the details you'd really be outraged.
I am not tryin to paint every conservative as a tyrant. there's some really good men of God out here . these are isolated incidents but there have been a few that are so outrageous that it's beyond imagination.
Years ago we had one that use to make the girls wear Brown bags over their heads and sit on the back row if the got caught wearing makeup
bump for chosen and r rock
philjones
09-29-2007, 07:53 PM
I love you Brother, I just need to understand something. Why are you leaving the UPCI and going to an organization that would be left of UPCI standards?
Brother,
I am NOT a member of the UPCI, nor can I ever be again. I love the UPCI and do not want to disparage them here.
I will simply say that I desire a covering and due to a mistake I made as a 20 year old single young man while a member of the UPCI, the UPCI can no longer provide me that covering.
I am considering the Apostolic Christian Network...
http://www.theacn.net
I love you Brother, I just need to understand something. Why are you leaving the UPCI and going to an organization that would be left of UPCI standards?
He never said he just left the UPCI ... EB ...
Oh, I'm so sorry Dan, having trouble reading? I never said that he left.
No .. my decoding skillz are SOLID .. YO!!!
EB,
Philjones has not been a member of the UPC for many years. He has posted in the past about a failing many, many, years ago when he was a young man that keeps him from holding license in the UPC.
He still has many close associations with the UPC though and has been a part of churches that are essentially just like the UPC.
He is very conservative but probably not conservative enough to be an AMFer and he certainly is not lib enough to be a Global guy!
Brother,
I am NOT a member of the UPCI, nor can I ever be again. I love the UPCI and do not want to disparage them here.
I will simply say that I desire a covering and due to a mistake I made as a 20 year old single young man while a member of the UPCI, the UPCI can no longer provide me that covering.
I am considering the Apostolic Christian Network...
http://www.theacn.net
Well looky what we have here EB ... other non-readers ... Everyone understood your question pretty much the same ...
No need to apologize, just recognize.
Leaving ... as you stated in your original question is in it's gerrand form ... but you and I knew that already
BTW, most of us who read this forum know that Phil is independent.
J roc, it really did occur nevermind what Benny says.why he's trying to undermine me i dont know but If i gave some of the details you'd really be outraged.
I am not tryin to paint every conservative as a tyrant. there's some really good men of God out here . these are isolated incidents but there have been a few that are so outrageous that it's beyond imagination.
Years ago we had one that use to make the girls wear Brown bags over their heads and sit on the back row if the got caught wearing makeup
bump for chosenbyone and R-rock
Coonskinner
09-29-2007, 08:11 PM
BOOM, I really haven't seen anyone gloating today.
I do think if the vote had gone the other way, a few hardcore cons would be pushing libs out as fast and furious as they could.
I have no desire to push anyone out.
I just want to be left alone.
Were you not being left alone?
I don't know anybody that was being bothered who was abiding by what they agreed to when they joined.
And I know you were in compliance.
So how will this gain you any peace that you didn't already have?
Coonskinner
09-29-2007, 08:14 PM
I agree with that post.
One elder stood up during the push to amend the resolution, and bemoaned the fact that enforcement was impossible. He was truly grieved over the fact that we cannot punish men with tv's.
I promise you, if this minority would have won, and could convince the body not to riot, they would actually enter men's homes and search for tv's in the hopes of bringing them up on charges.
If that doesn't sound like Salem, I don't know what does.
I think you are wrong.
Do you think we ought to ignore blatant and flagrant disregard for our AOF?
mizpeh
09-29-2007, 08:15 PM
Were you not being left alone?
I don't know anybody that was being bothered who was abiding by what they agreed to when they joined.
And I know you were in compliance.
So how will this gain you any peace that you didn't already have?
Compliance in action and not in heart doesn't make for peace of mind.
Nahum
09-29-2007, 08:21 PM
Were you not being left alone?
I don't know anybody that was being bothered who was abiding by what they agreed to when they joined.
And I know you were in compliance.
So how will this gain you any peace that you didn't already have?
No, I was not being left alone.
I was/am sick of the threats from a few kooks who mistakenly think I hate the org because I was pro-resolution.
You are right, I am in total compliance.
It won't gain me any peace, other than the knowledge that I am not in the minority any longer.
CS, I have no problem with hardcore conservatism. None at all. I was raised in it. I live it for the most part. I just think a few of those men would love to throw as many libs out as possible.
I don't mean to be offensive and insulting. I don't mean to paint with a broad brush, because the overwhelming majority of conservatives wouldn't do it. But I KNOW there is a group who absolutely would.
And never blink.
Nahum
09-29-2007, 08:23 PM
I think you are wrong.
Do you think we ought to ignore blatant and flagrant disregard for our AOF?
No, I don't think any such thing my brother.
I just think some things are not nearly as simple as some would make them out to be.
And I'm a pretty black and white guy, an absolutist. That gets me in trouble quite often.
Evang.Benincasa
09-29-2007, 08:28 PM
Well looky what we have here EB ... other non-readers ... Everyone understood your question pretty much the same ...
No need to apologize, just recognize.
Leaving ... as you stated in your original question is in it's gerrand form ... but you and I knew that already
BTW, most of us who read this forum know that Phil is independent.
Sorry for the mistake I thought that Brother Jones was speaking of going from one organization to another, meaning UPCI to something that was left of the UPCI standards. I never said he left the UPCI, I did ask him why was he LEAVING the UPCI and joining a more liberal organization. That is why I answered you in the manner that I did. Since we are making sure of what people are up to, may I ask is that Church you go to in Houston is it a Trinitarian Church?
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
Nahum
09-29-2007, 08:29 PM
I think you are wrong.
Do you think we ought to ignore blatant and flagrant disregard for our AOF?
How would you enforce the no television rule Bro?
Evang.Benincasa
09-29-2007, 08:30 PM
Brother,
I am NOT a member of the UPCI, nor can I ever be again. I love the UPCI and do not want to disparage them here.
I will simply say that I desire a covering and due to a mistake I made as a 20 year old single young man while a member of the UPCI, the UPCI can no longer provide me that covering.
I am considering the Apostolic Christian Network...
http://www.theacn.net
Ok, sorry for the mistake my Brother.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
Sorry for the mistake I thought that Brother Jones was speaking of going from one organization to another, meaning UPCI to something that was left of the UPCI standards. I never said he left the UPCI, I did ask him why was he LEAVING the UPCI and joining a more liberal organization. That is why I answered you in the manner that I did. Since we are making sure of what people are up to, may I ask is that Church you go to in Houston is it a Trinitarian Church?
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com (http://www.OnTimeJournal.com)
Are you still fellowshipping w/ Reckhart? Or have you moved on?
Astonishing Commentary from Friday
What are you talking about? It's not like they are allowing gay ministers.
J-Roc
09-29-2007, 08:31 PM
J roc, it really did occur nevermind what Benny says.why he's trying to undermine me i dont know but If i gave some of the details you'd really be outraged.
I am not tryin to paint every conservative as a tyrant. there's some really good men of God out here . these are isolated incidents but there have been a few that are so outrageous that it's beyond imagination.
Years ago we had one that use to make the girls wear Brown bags over their heads and sit on the back row if the got caught wearing makeup
Thanks for clarifying, Thad.... Benicasa...you have some apologizing to do as you attempted to besmirch Thad's name....
Evang.Benincasa
09-29-2007, 08:32 PM
Are you still fellowshipping w/ Reckhart? Or have you moved on?
Ancient news, and now my question? :)
Scott Hutchinson
09-29-2007, 08:34 PM
Yall guys have fun, I must retire but I'll leave some boxing gloves with you ,but remember there are even gentleman's rules in boxing.
Ancient news, and now my question? :)
I think you know the Jones' at Grace .... seems some ginseng might be in order.
Evang.Benincasa
09-29-2007, 08:35 PM
I agree with that post.
One elder stood up during the push to amend the resolution, and bemoaned the fact that enforcement was impossible. He was truly grieved over the fact that we cannot punish men with tv's.
I promise you, if this minority would have won, and could convince the body not to riot, they would actually enter men's homes and search for tv's in the hopes of bringing them up on charges.
If that doesn't sound like Salem, I don't know what does.
Brother, are you truly trying to say that any minister would do such a thing?
Evang.Benincasa
09-29-2007, 08:35 PM
I think you know the Jones' at Grace .... seems some ginseng might be in order.
And...your answer is?
Nahum
09-29-2007, 08:36 PM
Brother, are you truly trying to say that any minister would do such a thing?
Yes, quite unfortunately.
I think a few would try.
Now, I will be crucified for being so stupidly honest.
Evang.Benincasa
09-29-2007, 08:36 PM
How's Bishop Jone's coming along?
Thanks for clarifying, Thad.... Benicasa...you have some apologizing to do as you attempted to besmirch Thad's name....
Yea he did thanks J rock
Evang.Benincasa
09-29-2007, 08:37 PM
Yes, quite unfortunately.
I think a few would try.
Now, I will be crucified for being so stupidly honest.
Please bare with me, but you honestly don't really believe that?
Evang.Benincasa
09-29-2007, 08:39 PM
J roc, it really did occur nevermind what Benny says.why he's trying to undermine me i dont know but If i gave some of the details you'd really be outraged.
I am not tryin to paint every conservative as a tyrant. there's some really good men of God out here . these are isolated incidents but there have been a few that are so outrageous that it's beyond imagination.
Years ago we had one that use to make the girls wear Brown bags over their heads and sit on the back row if the got caught wearing makeup
Get off it, you're not saying anything here. Please people where does he get these things.
Nahum
09-29-2007, 08:39 PM
Please bare with me, but you honestly don't really believe that?
Friend, I would not joke about something so serious as that.
I am sorry I ever mentioned it in the first place, but I do believe they would try to find a way to do it.
J-Roc
09-29-2007, 08:41 PM
Years ago we had one that use to make the girls wear Brown bags over their heads and sit on the back row if the got caught wearing makeup
Okay, now I am puking...this guy would've felt my knuckles shatter his teeth and penetrate the back of his skull...that's how hard it would've felt had a relative of mine been put through this abuse and humiliation
...disgusting!
FRINGE_NUTTER
09-29-2007, 08:41 PM
Astonishing Commentary from Friday
This was a quote that shamgar1 posted:
"An older lady was standing with me today, openly weeping as she said: "Today I have lost my heritage.....the heritage that I have had all my life."
What about weeping for lost souls around the world who are on their way to hell with no one to care or guide them to Jesus Christ?
What about weeping for that teenage girl who committed suicide rather than tell her parents that she was pregnant?
What about weeping for the drug addict - including millions of prescription drug addicts - and alcoholics who are wallowing in their helplessness?
What about weeping for men, women, and children around the world who are dying of AIDS and every other horrible disease imaginable?
If any of us should weep it should be for this older lady who is weeping about a tv commercial for a church that might lead someone to Jesus Christ and eternal life.
:sos
Evang.Benincasa
09-29-2007, 08:42 PM
Friend, I would not joke about something so serious as that.
I am sorry I ever mentioned it in the first place, but I do believe they would try to find a way to do it.
Ok, now we are getting somewhere, so you really are not saying that the Brothers would enact Stalag 13?
This was a quote that shamgar1 posted:
"An older lady was standing with me today, openly weeping as she said: "Today I have lost my heritage.....the heritage that I have had all my life."
What about weeping for lost souls around the world who are on their way to hell with no one to care or guide them to Jesus Christ?
What about weeping for that teenage girl who committed suicide rather than tell her parents that she is pregnant?
What about weeping for the drug addict - including millions of prescription drug addicts - and alcoholics who are wallowing in their helplessness?
What about weeping for men, women, and children around the world who are dying of AIDS and every other horrible disease imaginable?
If any of us should weep it should be for this older lady who is weeping about a tv commercial for a church that might lead someone to Jesus Christ and eternal life.
:sos
You have hit the nail on the head here.
philjones
09-29-2007, 08:43 PM
Get off it, you're not saying anything here. Please people where does he get these things.
Bro. Benincasa,
I cannot vouch for the specific incidents that Thad is speaking of but I can confirm that events like he has described have happened.
One of my best friends' dad used to drive around looking for the unholy glow and then he would preach AT the offenders the following service! He has actually sat folks down for the unholy glow.
There is also a church in this area where the pastor has set a limit to the number of curls the young ladies can have in their hair. This is only one of his many unique guidelines.
It IS NOT COMMON but it has and does happen.
Evang.Benincasa
09-29-2007, 08:44 PM
Okay, now I am puking...this guy would've felt my knuckles shatter his teeth and penetrate the back of his skull...that's how hard it would've felt had a relative of mine were put through this abuse and humiliation
...disgusting!
WHAT? Is J-Rock and Thad cousins?
Yea he did thanks J rock
Benny has been penitent tonite ... maybe he's got one more apology for the CORINTHIAN
Nahum
09-29-2007, 08:45 PM
Ok, now we are getting somewhere, so you really are not saying that the Brothers would enact Stalag 13?
You lost me friend. I do not possess your intelligence.
What does the bolded refer to?
Coonskinner
09-29-2007, 08:48 PM
How would you enforce the no television rule Bro?
I will freely admit to being conflicted about this. Growing up in a family of bootleggers, it was ingrained in me at an early age not to be a tattler. That is a part of my nature. So while I think a man who has both a license and a tv ought to be dealt with, I couldn't file charges myself.
Ideally, an elder ought to approach such a man privately and entreat him as a brother regarding the integrity issue in his life.
If he refuses, then he ought to be disfellowshipped.
Nahum
09-29-2007, 08:49 PM
I will freely admit to being conflicted about this. Growing up in a family of bootleggers, it was ingrained in me at an early age not to be a tattler. That is a part of my nature. So while I think a man who has both a license and a tv ought to be dealt with, I couldn't file charges myself.
Ideally, an elder ought to approach such a man privately and entreat him as a brother regarding the integrity issue in his life.
If he refuses, then he ought to be disfellowshipped.
I agree in principle.
But how would the elder even know he had a tv? How do you deal with that?
Evang.Benincasa
09-29-2007, 08:50 PM
Ok, now we are getting somewhere, so you really are not saying that the Brothers would enact Stalag 13
You lost me friend. I do not possess your intelligence.
What does the bolded refer to?
Stalag is a prisoner of war camp during WWII.
Coonskinner
09-29-2007, 08:51 PM
I agree in principle.
But how would the elder even know he had a tv? How do you deal with that?
Someone would have to tell--and I couldn't do it.
Thus the conflictedness.
philjones
09-29-2007, 08:52 PM
I agree in principle.
But how would the elder even know he had a tv? How do you deal with that?
He would find out about the TV the same way he would find out about a mistress or an alcohol problem. It would be revealed to the elder in one way or another. The elder would not go seeking it.
Nahum
09-29-2007, 08:52 PM
Stalag is a prisioner of war camp during WWII.
Oh my goodness.
No EB, I just think they would publicly humiliate the man caught with a tv in his home and THEN disfellowship him.
Get off it, you're not saying anything here. Please people where does he get these things.
Whatever you want to think of believe but all jesting aside it's true. i know people who were raised in this church
Nahum
09-29-2007, 08:53 PM
Someone would have to tell--and I couldn't do it.
Thus the conflictedness.
And that is exactly why such a rule is silly, and can truly never be enforced.
It is quite sad that men have no integrity nowadays.
That would solve the issue.
J-Roc
09-29-2007, 08:55 PM
Yea he did thanks J rock
are you sure he did...I saw him apologize to Bro. Phil....
....looks like he just blasted you again....is Beni allowed to make Thad out to be a liar like this....this is shameful.
Get off it, you're not saying anything here. Please people where does he get these things.
And that is exactly why such a rule is silly, and can truly never be enforced.
It is quite sad that men have no integrity nowadays.
That would solve the issue.
That would solve a lot of issues...so if the erring brother does not repent or refuses counsel, then what?!
are you sure he did...I saw him apologize to Bro. Phil....
....looks like he just blasted you again....is Beni allowed to make Thad out to be a liar like this....this is shameful.
I have no reason to make that stuff up. It's the extreme i realize and not common but it did happen. the board got involved in some of these cases.
I'm just going to ignore Benny Trying to make undermine me. No one is too surprised
rgcraig
09-29-2007, 08:57 PM
And that is exactly why such a rule is silly, and can truly never be enforced.
It is quite sad that men have no integrity nowadays.
That would solve the issue.Amen!
Evang.Benincasa
09-29-2007, 08:58 PM
Oh my goodness.
No EB, I just think they would publicly humiliate the man caught with a tv in his home and THEN disfellowship him.
Brother, so you are saying that a UPCI preacher would take a saint of God and humiliate the Brother for a TV? Or are you speaking of a card holding preacher?
Evang.Benincasa
09-29-2007, 09:00 PM
Oh my goodness.
No EB, I just think they would publicly humiliate the man caught with a tv in his home and THEN disfellowship him.
My real concern was about the search and destroy scenario that was brought up as that Pastors would hunt down televisions in people's homes.
Nahum
09-29-2007, 09:00 PM
Brother, so you are saying that a UPCI preacher would take a saint of God and humiliate the Brother for a TV? Or are you speaking of a card holding preacher?
Preacher
rgcraig
09-29-2007, 09:00 PM
Brother, so you are saying that a UPCI preacher would take a saint of God and humiliate the Brother for a TV? Or are you speaking of a card holding preacher?
What are you trying to prove tonight? It happens - - you are the only one questioning it because others have seen or have known of it happening.
Evang.Benincasa
09-29-2007, 09:01 PM
Preacher
Ok now I'm on the same page. :)
Evang.Benincasa
09-29-2007, 09:03 PM
What are you trying to prove tonight? It happens - - you are the only one questioning it because others have seen or have known of it happening.
Dear Sister, please understand my concern here. I think what is being presented is quite insane, so pardon me for wanting a little clarification.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
rgcraig
09-29-2007, 09:05 PM
Dear Sister, please understand my concern here. I think what is being presented is quite insane, so pardon me for wanting a little clarification.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
It is insane, but it does happen.
Evang.Benincasa
09-29-2007, 09:06 PM
Preacher
Now that I have been made to understand what you are saying here, I must say this, if a man agrees to be in the UPCI then he must follow the rules of that organization. That's pretty clear. No one is making anyone do anything.
Free to come and go as they please. If a Brother agrees to the AOF then he should do the right thing and follow through.
Thank you for clarifying. :)
Evang.Benincasa
09-29-2007, 09:07 PM
It is insane, but it does happen.
Sister saying it and proving it are two different things.
Brett Prince
09-29-2007, 09:07 PM
And that is exactly why such a rule is silly, and can truly never be enforced.
It is quite sad that men have no integrity nowadays.
That would solve the issue.
Enforcement is something that troubles me. What good does it do? This is New Covenant, not the old. It is of faith, and voluntary obedience, not a rod. I am troubled by all of this. Integrity would lead a man to declare himself in agreement, and then endeavor to live that way. People who willingly submit to a pastor do not need "enforcement." If they do it because of enforcement, are they doing it from the heart? I understand platform standards and enforcement, for the sake of those who see their leadership--but for the pew? I have a hard time with that one. It does not seem New Testament enough. Now, on the other hand, we can speak prophecy regarding sin--but what more do we need? What is enforcement? Are we going to disfellowship everybody who doesn't do it, say it, believe it exactly as we say? Seems more like the USSR than a church if we did that.
Sister saying it and proving it are two different things.
Respectfully, why must everything be proven with names and dates and times and shoe size...isn't a brother or sister's WORD enough?!
Nahum
09-29-2007, 09:11 PM
Respectfully, why must everything be proven with names and dates and times and shoe size...isn't a brother or sister's WORD enough?!
And, there have been many good posters who have witnessed similar events.
Evang.Benincasa
09-29-2007, 09:12 PM
Respectfully, why must everything be proven with names and dates and times and shoe size...isn't a brother or sister's WORD enough?!
Because we are talking about our own people..Apostolics what is wrong with making sure it's the facts. My lands, It's one thing if a man has it coming to him, but if the people are innocent cut them a break.
Beacuse we are talking about our own people..Apostolics what is wrong with making sure it's the facts. My lands, It one thing if a man has it coming to him, but if the people are inoccent cut them a break.
Absolutely agree!!
But if a man or a woman who are ALSO our own say, "I am not joking here...I know this/have seen this," why wouldn't I believe them?! Is everyone's word suspect?!
BringItOn
09-29-2007, 09:24 PM
Hey Bro, don't get mad at me.
I know a man who turned his father-in-law in because he had an elder relative living in his basement with a tv. They took the man's license.
This is not a rumor, it is fact.
There was talk on the floor of enforcement. How would they enforce it without entering the home?
I know one that done the same thing. The S-I-L is a bowlegged, flopped eared, knotty kneed, snotty nosed, humpback, ski-footed Idiot
Evang.Benincasa
09-29-2007, 09:25 PM
Absolutely agree!!
But if a man or a woman who are ALSO our own say, "I am not joking here...I know this/have seen this," why wouldn't I believe them?! Is everyone's word suspect?!
Do you understand what you're saying? It better be suspect. This stuff that is being said is vulger, and you all are saying it like it's the norm.
J-Roc
09-29-2007, 09:27 PM
Do you understand what you're saying? It better be suspect. This stuff that is being said is vulger, and you all are saying it like it's the norm.
Makes you wanna have convulsions, huh?
Makes you wanna have convulsions, huh?
I'm getting a headache.
J-Roc
09-29-2007, 09:29 PM
Respectfully, why must everything be proven with names and dates and times and shoe size...isn't a brother or sister's WORD enough?!
:killinme:killinme
Do you understand what you're saying? It better be suspect. This stuff that is being said is vulger, and you all are saying it like it's the norm.
No sir...you're not getting my point, and I fear I am too tired now to clarify adequately.
Let me just say before I bid you all a goodnite that things may be vulgar and disgusting and the rest, but if a Child of God says that they know it is so, then their word should NOT be suspect.
I trust the people of God to tell me the truth until their actions/words prove it otherwise.
I refuse to look at the Saints through slanted eyes and make them defend every word spoken...their word should be good enough for me.
But then maybe I am delusional...a blessed nite to all...:bedtime
Praxeas
09-29-2007, 09:56 PM
PRAX,I agree with you our heritage should be what Jesus Christ started at the cross.
But I understand where UCs could feel hurt,and I certainly won't mock them.
The UCs were never the only group in this org...they might have been the most vocal or in control longer or whatever but many others put a lot into this group and in fact were kicked out, forced out, marginalized or whatever...this org has become something it was never meant to be. It seems the org became an Idol rather than a means of unifying all OPs to evangelize this world.
Praxeas
09-29-2007, 09:58 PM
I think the reason people can't see eye to eye here is the liberals feel like they have straightened a picture on the wall, while the conservatives feel like someone just demolished a whole wall... it is hard for either side to comprehend the other.
Sally isn't going to like that Daaaaavy
Nahum
09-30-2007, 10:53 AM
The UCs were never the only group in this org...they might have been the most vocal or in control longer or whatever but many others put a lot into this group and in fact were kicked out, forced out, marginalized or whatever...this org has become something it was never meant to be. It seems the org became an Idol rather than a means of unifying all OPs to evangelize this world.
Amen, amen, amen, amen!!!!!
The UCs were never the only group in this org...they might have been the most vocal or in control longer or whatever but many others put a lot into this group and in fact were kicked out, forced out, marginalized or whatever...this org has become something it was never meant to be. It seems the org became an Idol rather than a means of unifying all OPs to evangelize this world.
Shhhhh!!!! Don't go and tell the truth now and ruin all of the weeping about how "the org. left the cons before the cons left the org."
FRINGE_NUTTER
09-30-2007, 01:14 PM
The UCs were never the only group in this org...they might have been the most vocal or in control longer or whatever but many others put a lot into this group and in fact were kicked out, forced out, marginalized or whatever...this org has become something it was never meant to be. It seems the org became an Idol rather than a means of unifying all OPs to evangelize this world.
YOU HAVE NAILED IT WITH THAT STATEMENT.
Jack Shephard
09-30-2007, 01:34 PM
The UCs were never the only group in this org...they might have been the most vocal or in control longer or whatever but many others put a lot into this group and in fact were kicked out, forced out, marginalized or whatever...this org has become something it was never meant to be. It seems the org became an Idol rather than a means of unifying all OPs to evangelize this world.
Your best post ever!!! You are dead on!!!! Great words!!!!
Evang.Benincasa
09-30-2007, 04:02 PM
No sir...you're not getting my point, and I fear I am too tired now to clarify adequately.
Let me just say before I bid you all a goodnite that things may be vulgar and disgusting and the rest, but if a Child of God says that they know it is so, then their word should NOT be suspect.
Pro 14:15
"The simple BELIEVETH EVERY WORD: but the prudent man looketh WELL to his going."
Sister what is being said is pointed towards ministry and we best be sure what comments we say concerning Brothers and Sisters, and especially those who are teaching the Word of God. We are also admonished to not bring an accusation against an Elder without two or three witnesses.
It just seems that a few people on here tend to be very anti-Apostolic Jesus Name Pentecostal.
I trust the people of God to tell me the truth until their actions/words prove it otherwise.
Then the "until" part means that they PROVE themselves.
I refuse to look at the Saints through slanted eyes and make them defend every word spoken...their word should be good enough for me.
You're above thinking may sound noble it will get people in trouble. Mainly the innocent are the ones who suffer from such a mindset, we should check out stories when we hear them. Especially when they seal with such outlandish topics.
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
But then maybe I am delusional...a blessed nite to all...:bedtime[/QUOTE]
The UCs were never the only group in this org...they might have been the most vocal or in control longer or whatever but many others put a lot into this group and in fact were kicked out, forced out, marginalized or whatever...this org has become something it was never meant to be. It seems the org became an Idol rather than a means of unifying all OPs to evangelize this world.
I don't agree with this Statement. No one has made an Idol out of an organzation- never seen anyone bow before a UPC statue or anything AND everyone is trying to evangelize their area regardless if they are not using a TV. even those that want to advertise have evangelized their communities w/o it.
An idol doesn't have to tangible to be worshipped.
I don't agree with this Statement. No one has made an Idol out of an organzation- never seen anyone bow before a UPC statue or anything AND everyone is trying to evangelize their area regardless if they are not using a TV. even those that want to advertise have evangelized their communities w/o it.
Evang.Benincasa
09-30-2007, 08:35 PM
Shhhhh!!!! Don't go and tell the truth now and ruin all of the weeping about how "the org. left the cons before the cons left the org."
Brother that's as cold as the side tread on your bike.
Brother that's as cold as the side tread on your bike.
LOL!!!! I am trying to motivate Elder Epley to not stand me up next time we are supposed to have lunch when he is in town. I am giving him plenty of reason to want to kock me upside my head.:hypercoffee
Evang.Benincasa
09-30-2007, 08:40 PM
LOL!!!! I am trying to motivate Elder Epley to not stand me up next time we are supposed to have lunch when he is in town. I am giving him plenty of reason to want to kock me upside my head.:hypercoffee
Hey, take him for a ride on your bike.
Evang.Benincasa
09-30-2007, 08:46 PM
The UCs were never the only group in this org...they might have been the most vocal or in control longer or whatever but many others put a lot into this group and in fact were kicked out, forced out, marginalized or whatever...this org has become something it was never meant to be.
What was it meant to be Prax? The Assembly Of God?
It seems the org became an Idol rather than a means of unifying all OPs to evangelize this world.
The organization never became an idol for the Conservative Brothers. They had Ultra Cons from the Independents come and preach for them, so I hardly think any of the Conservatives held to an idol worship of the org.
As for unifying One God people the conservatives of the UPCI were writing articles for Brother Bud Tingle for years in his newspaper. Prax you sure you not talking about the Liberals?
In Jesus name
Brother Benincasa
www.OnTimeJournal.com
copyman59
09-30-2007, 08:54 PM
Astonishing Commentary from Friday
It's a sad day for the UPC when people like these have built their faith on having no tv's! What a joke that this is all you can talk about! Did the Depression cause humanity to give up? Yes, there were some, but it also caused the Church to get on their knees and pray to God for their needs! What this silly, ridiculous resolution should cause people to reach out to the lost...Helloooo...isn't that what the Church is all about? That Conservative elder you quoted needs to look at his foundation! Sorry, I don't buy that and I agree with AtlantaBishop, let's advertise our church to bring them in! Get in touch with Jesus friends!!!
pelathais
09-30-2007, 09:03 PM
Astonishing Commentary from Friday
Quote:
An older lady was standing with me today, openly weeping as she said: "Today I have lost my heritage.....the heritage that I have had all my life."
Another elder told me: "I can make it, I'm almost retired. It is you young guys that I'm worried about."
We shall look back upon this day with astonishment. We have seen history today.
(name removed) epilogue:
Those who ignore history in the pursuit of a mis-perceived destiny, are destined to fail.
My sympathies to those who thought they were helping the UPCI progress, but will instead help preside over its demise.
BTW, as I left the Marriott today, Clint Brown and Tommy Tenney were arriving with their entourages. Are the vultures arriving already?
With sorrow in my heart, I thank God that my father didn't live to see this day and be broken-hearted.
That "elderly lady" had to have been just 30 years old. Her "I have lost my heritage.....the heritage that I have had all my life" statement reveals she must be less than 30! Resolution 4 simply removed a 30 year old restriction.
And, "openly weeping..." doesn't your "source" have any shame?
And, Shamgar- we already have seen pics of your buddy Clint Brown. He was there early and appears to travel alone.
How many more lies and sorry exagerations can we expect to hear from this crowd?
Shamgar - Truth: These guys lied in 1992 and lie today.
Evang.Benincasa
09-30-2007, 10:02 PM
It's a sad day for the UPC when people like these have built their faith on having no tv's! What a joke that this is all you can talk about! Did the Depression cause humanity to give up? Yes, there were some, but it also caused the Church to get on their knees and pray to God for their needs! What this silly, ridiculous resolution should cause people to reach out to the lost...Helloooo...isn't that what the Church is all about? That Conservative elder you quoted needs to look at his foundation! Sorry, I don't buy that and I agree with AtlantaBishop, let's advertise our church to bring them in! Get in touch with Jesus friends!!!
Very good you are so spiritual that you miss the point it's not about television, it's about an organization becoming commercialized.
Step right up, step right up, step right up,
Everyone's a winner, bargains galore
That's right, you too can be THE Pentecostals!
The quality goes in before the name goes on
One-tenth of a dollar, one-tenth of a dollar, we got services after services
You need Bible? we got Bibles, how 'bout a wedding ring?
Something for the little lady, something for the little lady,
Something for the little lady, hmm
Three for a dollar
We got a year-end clearance, we got a white raiment sale
And a free water baptism in whatever name you choose, you can sign your life away today
Act now, acts 2:38 now, and receive as our gift, our gift to you water proof baptismal robes
they come in all colors, one size fits all!
No muss, no fuss, no spills, you're tired of religious drudgery
Everything must go, going for your business, going for your business
Giving you the business sale!
Fifty percent off original retail price, skip the middle man, the preacher man!
Don't settle for less
How do we do it? how do we do it? volume, volume, turn up the volume, pump up the volume! Sunday School reports galore!!
Now you've heard it advertised, don't hesitate Pentecostalate
Don't be caught without your Mother's Day Memorial glow in the dark pen,
Don't be caught with without your Mother's Day Memorial glow in the darkness!
You can step right up, step right up, ready or not step right up, we are the Pentecostals will step you right up, and dunk you right in, remember fill out this little paper, and don't forget your adress, step right up!
That's right, it filets, it chops, it dices, slices,
Never stops, lasts an everlasting lifetime, mows your lawn
And it mows your lawn and it picks up the kids from school
It gets rid of unwanted standards, it gets rid of preachers,teachers, evangelists and reachers, It delivers a pizza, and it lengthens, and it strengthens
And it finds that hot stick that's been at large
under the chaise lounge for several weeks
And it plays a mean Hammond B-3 organ,
It spins your bow tie around your collar
And it's only a dollar, step right up, it's only a dollar, step right up
'It helps you speak in tongues, holds your hair in a bun,
If not completely satisfied, mail back unused portion of product
For complete refund of price of purchase
Step right up
Please allow forty days and forty nights for delivery, don't be fooled by cheap imitations
You can live in it, live in it, laugh in it, shout in it
Run the pews in it, sleep in the pews in it,
Live in it, pay your tithes in it, laugh in it, shout in it
Removes embarrassing liberal Charismatics from off your streets, that's right
And it entertains your Sunday school visitors, it turns a sandwich into a fellowship hall
Tired of being the life of the party?
Change your doctrine, change your life, change your life
Change into a nine-year-old Mormon boy, get rid of your presbyter,
And it walks your dog, and it doubles on sax
Doubles on sax, you can jump back Jack, see you later alligator
See you later Tommy Tenney
And it steals your tithes
It gets rid of your tithes, it causes Charismatics to quit smoking
It's a friend, and it's a companion,
And it's the only product you will ever need
Follow these easy assembly instructions it never needs ironing
Well it takes weight off your mind,
Gives you dandruff, and it finds you a job, it is a job
And it strips the vistors wallets, take ten for five exchange,
And it gives you long uncut hair, or makes you look like you have long uncut hair
And you know it's a friend, and it's a companion
And it gets rid of your tithes and offerings
It's new, it's improved, it's beyound-old-fashioned
Well it takes care of business, never needs winding,
Never needs winding, never needs winding
Gets rid of spiritualality, and the heartbreak of psoriasis,
C'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon
'Cause it's effective, it's defective, it creates home Bible studies,
It disinfects, it sanitizes for your outreach, are you traumatized?
It electrifies, and purifies, wakes up sleeping visitors in the pews
Why put up with painful Charismatic Televangelists any longer? The Pentecostals are here!
We give out redeemable coupons with every baptism, no obligation, no salesman will visit your home
We got a jackpot, jackpot, jackpot, prizes, prizes, prizes, all home missions guaranteed!
Come on down! The Pentecostals are in town!
How do we do it, how do we do it, how do we do it, how do we do it
We need your business, we're going to give you the business
We are the business!
Televangelisms our new business we learned John Maxwell's business
Receive our free brochure, free brochure
Read the easy-to-follow assembly instructions, batteries not included
Send before midnight tomorrow, terms available,
Step right up, step right up, step right up
You got it saint of God: the large print giveth, and the small print taketh away!!!
Step right up, you can step right up, you can step right up
C'mon step right up
(Get away from me Ultra Con, you bother me...)
Step right up, step right up, step right up, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon
Step right up, you can step right up, c'mon and step right up,
C'mon and step right up
I spend less time in front of the television than you did coming up with an asinine post. Your perception of advertising would change if spent time researching the LOCAL angle of tv ministries instead getting chaffed over national tv preachers.
I reiterate it is none's business how a congregation decides to outreach. Nobody is forcing you to use television in your outreach. Just because you are not spirtual enough to handle tv advertising doesn't mean we all have to twiddle our thumbs while you are sucking your thumb. Some of us are ready to take Paul's words when he said he would be all to win some.
In keeping with the theme of the thread,
Ashes to ashes
Dust to Dust
It's about time
Legalism lost.
Very good you are so spiritual that you miss the point it's not about television, it's about an organization becoming commercialized.
Step right up, step right up, step right up,
Everyone's a winner, bargains galore
That's right, you too can be THE Pentecostals!
The quality goes in before the name goes on
One-tenth of a dollar, one-tenth of a dollar, we got services after services
You need Bible? we got Bibles, how 'bout a wedding ring?
Something for the little lady, something for the little lady,
Something for the little lady, hmm
Three for a dollar
We got a year-end clearance, we got a white raiment sale
And a free water baptism in whatever name you choose, you can sign your life away today
Act now, acts 2:38 now, and receive as our gift, our gift to you water proof baptismal robes
they come in all colors, one size fits all!
No muss, no fuss, no spills, you're tired of religious drudgery
Everything must go, going for your business, going for your business
Giving you the business sale!
Fifty percent off original retail price, skip the middle man, the preacher man!
Don't settle for less
How do we do it? how do we do it? volume, volume, turn up the volume, pump up the volume! Sunday School reports galore!!
Now you've heard it advertised, don't hesitate Pentecostalate
Don't be caught without your Mother's Day Memorial glow in the dark pen,
Don't be caught with without your Mother's Day Memorial glow in the darkness!
You can step right up, step right up, ready or not step right up, we are the Pentecostals will step you right up, and dunk you right in, remember fill out this little paper, and don't forget your adress, step right up!
That's right, it filets, it chops, it dices, slices,
Never stops, lasts an everlasting lifetime, mows your lawn
And it mows your lawn and it picks up the kids from school
It gets rid of unwanted standards, it gets rid of preachers,teachers, evangelists and reachers, It delivers a pizza, and it lengthens, and it strengthens
And it finds that hot stick that's been at large
under the chaise lounge for several weeks
And it plays a mean Hammond B-3 organ,
It spins your bow tie around your collar
And it's only a dollar, step right up, it's only a dollar, step right up
'It helps you speak in tongues, holds your hair in a bun,
If not completely satisfied, mail back unused portion of product
For complete refund of price of purchase
Step right up
Please allow forty days and forty nights for delivery, don't be fooled by cheap imitations
You can live in it, live in it, laugh in it, shout in it
Run the pews in it, sleep in the pews in it,
Live in it, pay your tithes in it, laugh in it, shout in it
Removes embarrassing liberal Charismatics from off your streets, that's right
And it entertains your Sunday school visitors, it turns a sandwich into a fellowship hall
Tired of being the life of the party?
Change your doctrine, change your life, change your life
Change into a nine-year-old Mormon boy, get rid of your presbyter,
And it walks your dog, and it doubles on sax
Doubles on sax, you can jump back Jack, see you later alligator
See you later Tommy Tenney
And it steals your tithes
It gets rid of your tithes, it causes Charismatics to quit smoking
It's a friend, and it's a companion,
And it's the only product you will ever need
Follow these easy assembly instructions it never needs ironing
Well it takes weight off your mind,
Gives you dandruff, and it finds you a job, it is a job
And it strips the vistors wallets, take ten for five exchange,
And it gives you long uncut hair, or makes you look like you have long uncut hair
And you know it's a friend, and it's a companion
And it gets rid of your tithes and offerings
It's new, it's improved, it's beyound-old-fashioned
Well it takes care of business, never needs winding,
Never needs winding, never needs winding
Gets rid of spiritualality, and the heartbreak of psoriasis,
C'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon
'Cause it's effective, it's defective, it creates home Bible studies,
It disinfects, it sanitizes for your outreach, are you traumatized?
It electrifies, and purifies, wakes up sleeping visitors in the pews
Why put up with painful Charismatic Televangelists any longer? The Pentecostals are here!
We give out redeemable coupons with every baptism, no obligation, no salesman will visit your home
We got a jackpot, jackpot, jackpot, prizes, prizes, prizes, all home missions guaranteed!
Come on down! The Pentecostals are in town!
How do we do it, how do we do it, how do we do it, how do we do it
We need your business, we're going to give you the business
We are the business!
Televangelisms our new business we learned John Maxwell's business
Receive our free brochure, free brochure
Read the easy-to-follow assembly instructions, batteries not included
Send before midnight tomorrow, terms available,
Step right up, step right up, step right up
You got it saint of God: the large print giveth, and the small print taketh away!!!
Step right up, you can step right up, you can step right up
C'mon step right up
(Get away from me Ultra Con, you bother me...)
Step right up, step right up, step right up, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon
Step right up, you can step right up, c'mon and step right up,
C'mon and step right up
pelathais
09-30-2007, 10:20 PM
Very good you are so spiritual that you miss the point it's not about television, it's about an organization becoming commercialized. ...
That's an important concern and the one reason why I hesitated to be really an advocate of TV.
But aren't you expressing concern over content and not the medium itself? That's one reason many were looking for amendments - to control the content.
The UPC has a big opportunity to either reinvent televison evagelism, or to make themselves look silly.
Sherri
09-30-2007, 10:21 PM
Bro. EB--
You know I don't agree with you on this, but I will have to say that post cracked me up. If you wrote that, you are very witty!
Very good you are so spiritual that you miss the point it's not about television, it's about an organization becoming commercialized.
Step right up, step right up, step right up,
Everyone's a winner, bargains galore
That's right, you too can be THE Pentecostals!
The quality goes in before the name goes on
One-tenth of a dollar, one-tenth of a dollar, we got services after services
You need Bible? we got Bibles, how 'bout a wedding ring?
Something for the little lady, something for the little lady,
Something for the little lady, hmm
Three for a dollar
We got a year-end clearance, we got a white raiment sale
And a free water baptism in whatever name you choose, you can sign your life away today
Act now, acts 2:38 now, and receive as our gift, our gift to you water proof baptismal robes
they come in all colors, one size fits all!
No muss, no fuss, no spills, you're tired of religious drudgery
Everything must go, going for your business, going for your business
Giving you the business sale!
Fifty percent off original retail price, skip the middle man, the preacher man!
Don't settle for less
How do we do it? how do we do it? volume, volume, turn up the volume, pump up the volume! Sunday School reports galore!!
Now you've heard it advertised, don't hesitate Pentecostalate
Don't be caught without your Mother's Day Memorial glow in the dark pen,
Don't be caught with without your Mother's Day Memorial glow in the darkness!
You can step right up, step right up, ready or not step right up, we are the Pentecostals will step you right up, and dunk you right in, remember fill out this little paper, and don't forget your adress, step right up!
That's right, it filets, it chops, it dices, slices,
Never stops, lasts an everlasting lifetime, mows your lawn
And it mows your lawn and it picks up the kids from school
It gets rid of unwanted standards, it gets rid of preachers,teachers, evangelists and reachers, It delivers a pizza, and it lengthens, and it strengthens
And it finds that hot stick that's been at large
under the chaise lounge for several weeks
And it plays a mean Hammond B-3 organ,
It spins your bow tie around your collar
And it's only a dollar, step right up, it's only a dollar, step right up
'It helps you speak in tongues, holds your hair in a bun,
If not completely satisfied, mail back unused portion of product
For complete refund of price of purchase
Step right up
Please allow forty days and forty nights for delivery, don't be fooled by cheap imitations
You can live in it, live in it, laugh in it, shout in it
Run the pews in it, sleep in the pews in it,
Live in it, pay your tithes in it, laugh in it, shout in it
Removes embarrassing liberal Charismatics from off your streets, that's right
And it entertains your Sunday school visitors, it turns a sandwich into a fellowship hall
Tired of being the life of the party?
Change your doctrine, change your life, change your life
Change into a nine-year-old Mormon boy, get rid of your presbyter,
And it walks your dog, and it doubles on sax
Doubles on sax, you can jump back Jack, see you later alligator
See you later Tommy Tenney
And it steals your tithes
It gets rid of your tithes, it causes Charismatics to quit smoking
It's a friend, and it's a companion,
And it's the only product you will ever need
Follow these easy assembly instructions it never needs ironing
Well it takes weight off your mind,
Gives you dandruff, and it finds you a job, it is a job
And it strips the vistors wallets, take ten for five exchange,
And it gives you long uncut hair, or makes you look like you have long uncut hair
And you know it's a friend, and it's a companion
And it gets rid of your tithes and offerings
It's new, it's improved, it's beyound-old-fashioned
Well it takes care of business, never needs winding,
Never needs winding, never needs winding
Gets rid of spiritualality, and the heartbreak of psoriasis,
C'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon
'Cause it's effective, it's defective, it creates home Bible studies,
It disinfects, it sanitizes for your outreach, are you traumatized?
It electrifies, and purifies, wakes up sleeping visitors in the pews
Why put up with painful Charismatic Televangelists any longer? The Pentecostals are here!
We give out redeemable coupons with every baptism, no obligation, no salesman will visit your home
We got a jackpot, jackpot, jackpot, prizes, prizes, prizes, all home missions guaranteed!
Come on down! The Pentecostals are in town!
How do we do it, how do we do it, how do we do it, how do we do it
We need your business, we're going to give you the business
We are the business!
Televangelisms our new business we learned John Maxwell's business
Receive our free brochure, free brochure
Read the easy-to-follow assembly instructions, batteries not included
Send before midnight tomorrow, terms available,
Step right up, step right up, step right up
You got it saint of God: the large print giveth, and the small print taketh away!!!
Step right up, you can step right up, you can step right up
C'mon step right up
(Get away from me Ultra Con, you bother me...)
Step right up, step right up, step right up, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon
Step right up, you can step right up, c'mon and step right up,
C'mon and step right up
Or Worldly?
Amen Bro.
The only way content is separated in a discussion about media is if you talk about the internet.
Here is the formula
Bad content on television=bad television
Bad content on internet= Okay if you use filters, share password with spouse, and don't do anything I wouldn't do.
Content for legalists is separated on when it is convenient for them.
That's an important concern and the one reason why I hesitated to be really an advocate of TV.
But aren't you expressing concern over content and not the medium itself? That's one reason many were looking for amendments - to control the content.
The UPC has a big opportunity to either reinvent televison evagelism, or to make themselves look silly.
Nahum
09-30-2007, 10:28 PM
I truly am concerned about the mental health of a couple of people who have posted on this thread.
The only way content is separated in a discussion about media is if you talk about the internet.
Here is the formula
Bad content on television=bad television
Bad content on internet= Okay if you use filters, share password with spouse, and don't do anything I wouldn't do.
Content for legalists is separated on when it is convenient for them.
Is it "legalism" if a person does not think anything about TV is wholesome?
Do you know for a fact that a lot of these "UC" have computers or do you even
know what they are doing with them?
Computers are not just for the Internet.
I have a cousin who has a computer at home but is not on the internet-doesn't trust it. He thinks too many are watching you surf.
Oh by the way he is not Apostolic!
Computer-many uses. TV-One main use.:hypercoffee
Evang.Benincasa
09-30-2007, 10:37 PM
I spend less time in front of the television than you did coming up with an asinine post.
You spend less time in probably a lot of things. :)
Your perception of advertising would change if spent time researching the LOCAL angle of tv ministries instead getting chaffed over national tv preachers.
Research commercialized evangelism? Go to Barns and Noble and proceed right to the Management section and look up how you can market Christ. It may improve your out reach and attitude towards those who are telling YOU the truth. The vote was for the little guy; it was for the big guys.
I reiterate it is none's business how a congregation decides to outreach. Nobody is forcing you to use television in your outreach.
Forcing me to sell myself and the Christ I serve? Oh yeah I am running to do that? I can just imagine the horror shows that will be produced, and sooner or later it will become the same old televangelism that has been around for years. Sorry Pentecost you are 30 years too late.
Just because you are not spirtual enough to handle tv advertising doesn't mean we all have to twiddle our thumbs while you are sucking your thumb.
:killinme You and Robert Tilton. :killinme
Some of us are ready to take Paul's words when he said he would be all to win some.
So if someone passed you a joint would you take a drag to win their soul?
In keeping with the theme of the thread,
Ashes to ashes
Dust to Dust
It's about time
Legalism lost.
Legalism? So does that make you an illegalist?
Evang.Benincasa
09-30-2007, 10:40 PM
Or Worldly?
Amen Bro.
Thank you my Brother, but I am sure that it's all about the Money.
Commercialized Pentecost
Thank you my Brother, but I am sure that it's all about the Money.
Commercialized Pentecost
Thou art not far from the truth.:saycheese
Can I get a grey Rolls along with my six no seven figure salary?:hypercoffee
Evang.Benincasa
09-30-2007, 10:48 PM
Thou art not far from the truth.:saycheese
Can I get a grey Rolls along with my six no seven figure salary?:hypercoffee
Commercials are for making money not converts. They tell you it's about soul winning and then...the make-up artist comes out and applies the base.
Sherri
09-30-2007, 10:50 PM
Commercials are for making money not converts. They tell you it's about soul winning and then...the make-up artist comes out and applies the base.
We were on TV for three years and Eddie NEVER wore any makeup! I think I would have to run out laughing if he did.
Evang.Benincasa
09-30-2007, 10:53 PM
We were on TV for three years and Eddie NEVER wore any makeup! I think I would have to run out laughing if he did.
Were you on a local cable station? You are a wonderful couple and your avatar is nice, but the cameras pick up people and make them look pale and also larger. It's been a long time since I have viewed anything so maybe things have changed.
seguidordejesus
09-30-2007, 10:59 PM
Thou art not far from the truth.:saycheese
Can I get a grey Rolls along with my six no seven figure salary?:hypercoffee
You're not supposed to include decimals in there!
Sherri
09-30-2007, 10:59 PM
Were you on a local cable station? You are a wonderful couple and your avatar is nice, but the cameras pick up people and make them look pale and also larger. It's been a long time since I have viewed anything so maybe things have changed.
We were on an ABC affilliate that reached five states, I think. We actually had a large following. I'm hoping lots of those people will now come to church. since we have gone off.
But makeup on Eddie? NEVER! That would be hilarious.
Evang.Benincasa
09-30-2007, 11:10 PM
We were on an ABC affilliate that reached five states, I think. We actually had a large following. I'm hoping lots of those people will now come to church. since we have gone off.
But makeup on Eddie? NEVER! That would be hilarious.
ABC is a major station so I guess things has change a great deal. I remember the Joel Ankerberg show all his guests including himself needed touch up with the brush as did the two adulterant Jimmies.
So why would these people come to church because you went off the air?
Wouldn't it be easier just to change the channel and find another preacher?
redeemedcynic84
09-30-2007, 11:51 PM
Very good you are so spiritual that you miss the point it's not about television, it's about an organization becoming commercialized.
lol
how exactly has it become commercialized??? I want something specific here, too, because "they're gonna be on tv" is not commercialization...
redeemedcynic84
09-30-2007, 11:55 PM
Is it "legalism" if a person does not think anything about TV is wholesome?
Do you know for a fact that a lot of these "UC" have computers or do you even
know what they are doing with them?
Computers are not just for the Internet.
I have a cousin who has a computer at home but is not on the internet-doesn't trust it. He thinks too many are watching you surf.
Oh by the way he is not Apostolic!
Computer-many uses. TV-One main use.:hypercoffee
are VeggieTales evil??
If not, then not all television is evil, because VeggieTales are nationally syndicated now... as are 3-2-1 Penguins (or whatever) and one other Big Idea show....
Evang.Benincasa
10-01-2007, 12:02 AM
lol
how exactly has it become commercialized??? I want something specific here, too, because "they're gonna be on tv" is not commercialization...
Put down your crayons and pay attention. I said it was about an organization BECOMING COMMERCIALIZED, give it some time, you will see how it will become a sterilized plastic and commercialized shadow of what they use to be.
redeemedcynic84
10-01-2007, 12:05 AM
Put down your crayons and pay attention. I said it was about an organization BECOMING COMMERCIALIZED, give it some time, you will see how it will become a sterilized plastic and commercialized shadow of what they use to be.
A) lay off the insults, ok? They're lame and all they do is make you look bad and hurt your thoughts...
B) so, essentially you don't have a reason to say that we're becoming commercialized other than the simple fact that we're not doing what you want us to do??? OK, moving on then (since you don't actually have anything to say)...
Evang.Benincasa
10-01-2007, 12:08 AM
are VeggieTales evil??
Does Veggie Tales have anything about the New Testament?
If not, then not all television is evil, because VeggieTales are nationally syndicated now... as are 3-2-1 Penguins (or whatever) and one other Big Idea show....
The rest is Chinese to me, Veggie Tales I know about, but that other stuff I have no clue.
Praxeas
10-01-2007, 12:12 AM
Very good you are so spiritual that you miss the point it's not about television, it's about an organization becoming commercialized.
Commercialized eh? That would then mean having advertisements on Radio is bad. Advertising on Internet is wrong. Advertising in Magazines and newspapers are wrong. It's all commercial.
Evang.Benincasa
10-01-2007, 12:12 AM
A) lay off the insults, ok? They're lame and all they do is make you look bad and hurt your thoughts...
Wrong, just my communications with you hurts my thoughts. I can kick myself every time we dialog. All you do is complain.
B) so, essentially you don't have a reason to say that we're becoming commercialized other than the simple fact that we're not doing what you want us to do??? OK, moving on then (since you don't actually have anything to say)...
Now that made no sense.
Praxeas
10-01-2007, 12:14 AM
Why is Television worldly but radio and internet are not?
Evang.Benincasa
10-01-2007, 12:15 AM
Commercialized eh? That would then mean having advertisements on Radio is bad. Advertising on Internet is wrong. Advertising in Magazines and newspapers are wrong. It's all commercial.
Newspapers? You mean like dinner on the grounds? Yeah, you can really compare that with Television? You can't, and this resolution was NOT for the little guy it was for those who can put on the BIG SHOW. That's the truth.
Praxeas
10-01-2007, 12:16 AM
A) lay off the insults, ok? They're lame and all they do is make you look bad and hurt your thoughts...
Well don't stop him please. That obnoxious attitude of his is working towards your advantage :killinme:killinme
redeemedcynic84
10-01-2007, 12:16 AM
Does Veggie Tales have anything about the New Testament?
The rest is Chinese to me, Veggie Tales I know about, but that other stuff I have no clue.
www.bigidea.com
3-2-1 Penguins is another Christian-aimed cartoon made by Big Idea... They currently have 3 cartoons being made... 3-2-1 Penguins, VeggieTales, and Larry Boy...
VeggieTales talks about New Testament principles (loving your neighbor ("Are You My Neighbor?"), not fearing things 'cuz God is on our side (I don't know the episode, but i has the song that goes "God is Bigger than the boogieman, he's bigger than godzilla or the monsters on tv... Yeah, God is bigger than the boogieman, and he's watching over you and me"), not being greedy/anti-commercialism (the Madame Blueberry episode), and a few others)... Plus it has OT stories (Dave & the Giant Pickle, Josh & the Big Wall, Esther, Jonah, etc.)
Evang.Benincasa
10-01-2007, 12:18 AM
Why is Television worldly but radio and internet are not?
Television is entertianment, Internet is information.
redeemedcynic84
10-01-2007, 12:18 AM
Newspapers? You mean like dinner on the grounds? Yeah, you can really compare that with Television? You can't, and this resolution was NOT for the little guy it was for those who can put on the BIG SHOW. That's the truth.
if you knew anything about cable advertising... any idiot can do it cheaply, especially nowadays with decent video editing equiptment and programs being cheap (thus its cheap to find people who can make a commercial for you that looks good)...
like $5 tops for a spot on cable... and like $50 for decent broadcast spots... I'm sure even primetime spots aren't that expensive unless you want like Lost or Heroes...
Praxeas
10-01-2007, 12:18 AM
Newspapers? You mean like dinner on the grounds? Yeah, you can really compare that with Television? You can't, and this resolution was NOT for the little guy it was for those who can put on the BIG SHOW. That's the truth.
They are all mediums of commercialism. You were the one that made the issue "commercialized". If that is really true, the UPC has been commercialized for decades by advertising on Radio, street corners, newspapers, magazines and internet.
TV is just another means of doing the same thing. It does not make the UPC more commercialized, however it does have a larger target audience. Im not sure why that's a bad thing to you guys.
Praxeas
10-01-2007, 12:19 AM
if you knew anything about cable advertising... any idiot can do it cheaply, especially nowadays with decent video editing equiptment and programs being cheap (thus its cheap to find people who can make a commercial for you that looks good)...
like $5 tops for a spot on cable... and like $50 for decent broadcast spots... I'm sure even primetime spots aren't that expensive unless you want like Lost or Heroes...
He won't listen to that kind of logic. Tv1 already made that point. I made it once before. Our local cable had a free channel where local groups could advertise for free and even broadcast services cheaply
Praxeas
10-01-2007, 12:20 AM
Television is entertianment, Internet is information.
Television is entertainment AND information and so is the Internet. Which is really irrelevant anyways, we advertise (see commercialize) on the Internet and now we can do it on TV
Evang.Benincasa
10-01-2007, 12:22 AM
www.bigidea.com
3-2-1 Penguins is another Christian-aimed cartoon made by Big Idea... They currently have 3 cartoons being made... 3-2-1 Penguins, VeggieTales, and Larry Boy...
Still don't know about them, except for Veggie Tales.
VeggieTales talks about New Testament principles (loving your neighbor ("Are You My Neighbor?"), not fearing things 'cuz God is on our side (I don't know the episode, but i has the song that goes "God is Bigger than the boogieman, he's bigger than godzilla or the monsters on tv... Yeah, God is bigger than the boogieman, and he's watching over you and me"), not being greedy/anti-commercialism (the Madame Blueberry episode), and a few others)... Plus it has OT stories (Dave & the Giant Pickle, Josh & the Big Wall, Esther, Jonah, etc.)
So, does that mean there are NO episodes about JESUS CHRIST?
redeemedcynic84
10-01-2007, 12:25 AM
Television is entertianment, Internet is information.
do you really want me to list all the sites on the internet that are purely Entertainment??
They vastly outnumber the educational pages... and if you consider size, its not even close...
plus, for educational/non-entertainment stuff on TV, you have:
The Disney Channel (at times)
Nickelodian (at times)
PBS
The Discovery Channel
A&E
Animal Planet
Discovery Health
Food TV
National Geographic
CSPAN
FIT TV
Do It Yourself Network
Fine Living Network
Discovery Home
SCIENCE
Military Channel
Discovery Times Channel
History International
The Biography Channel
G4 (electronics news)
Discovery Kids
Noggin
Boomerang
plus news channels:
MSNBC
CNN
Headline News
Fox News
Consumer News & Business
Court TV
but, no, there is nothing on TV that is not on there for entertainment only...
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