View Full Version : Jehovah-Jesus by C.H. Yadon
Long ago (about 50 years ago) I had a book called Jehovah-Jesus by C.H. Yadon. It came from the UPC publishing house. It's been gone for years. I would like to read it again. If anyone has a copy they would like to give me, sell to me, or loan to me, please contact me by PM.
I am posting this on a couple of different forums.
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Raven
10-05-2007, 07:49 PM
Long ago (about 50 years ago) I had a book called Jehovah-Jesus by C.H. Yadon. It came from the UPC publishing house. It's been gone for years. I would like to read it again. If anyone has a copy they would like to give me, sell to me, or loan to me, please contact me by PM.
I am posting this on a couple of different forums.
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Sam
Just talked to Loren Yadon today about that very book. I want to re-read it again also. When I receive a copy I'll try to get you one also. By the way, Loren was a wealth of information about his family history and especially his uncle, C.H. Yadon.
Raven
Scott Hutchinson
10-05-2007, 10:18 PM
Raven if this gets printed I would like to obtain a copy.
Falla39
10-05-2007, 10:53 PM
Raven if this gets printed I would like to obtain a copy.
So would I!!!
Blessings,
Falla39
Steve Epley
10-06-2007, 04:06 PM
I wish I has my copy like many books it is gone. I do not think it is actually a Oneness book it sounds more like an Arian book. I read somewhere it was a copy of an earlier Arian book?
I wish I has my copy like many books it is gone. I do not think it is actually a Oneness book it sounds more like an Arian book. I read somewhere it was a copy of an earlier Arian book?
Eld. Epley,
When I read it many years ago I got the impression Bro. Yadon was teaching two Gods --a big God named YHWH and a lesser god (a created being) named Jesus. To me it sounded sort of like what I understood Bishop Hancock of the PCAF taught. I could be wrong on both of these opinions.
Some time back in the past I read something by an anti-Oneness person who claimed that Bro. Yadon had plagiarized a previous book that presented Jesus as the Archangel Michael as the JW's do. He claimed that Bro. Yadon had pretty well reproduced that arian book with just a few word changes here and there. I don't know how accurate that was since the person (and I don't remember now who it was) was anti-Oneness.
My former pastor, F.E. Curts, one time referred to Bro. Yadon as "old two god Yadon" when he was talking to me. I don't remember anything else about that conversation.
I would like to read the book again just to see what it really says (or at least what I think it says or how I understand what he is saying).
Sam
Just talked to Loren Yadon today about that very book. I want to re-read it again also. When I receive a copy I'll try to get you one also. By the way, Loren was a wealth of information about his family history and especially his uncle, C.H. Yadon.
Raven
When you find out about how to obtain a copy, let me know.
You can PM me here or contact me by email at Jim@InJesusName.us
I have checked the UPC publishing house and also Amazon for that book without success. I have posted that first post in this thread on a couple of other forums without success.
Raven
10-06-2007, 08:12 PM
When you find out about how to obtain a copy, let me know.
You can PM me here or contact me by email at Jim@InJesusName.us
Sam
Loren Yadon told me today that this book indeed was a revised copy of an earlier book. He said his uncle, toward the end, regreted putting his name to it because it did seem to present two persons in the Godhead. Copies are hard to find. Loren is looking and I'm going to contact Sharon Roam to see if she might know where we can obtain them. I think some will turn up but it may take awhile.
Raven
Steve Epley
10-07-2007, 10:47 PM
Sam
Loren Yadon told me today that this book indeed was a revised copy of an earlier book. He said his uncle, toward the end, regreted putting his name to it because it did seem to present two persons in the Godhead. Copies are hard to find. Loren is looking and I'm going to contact Sharon Roam to see if she might know where we can obtain them. I think some will turn up but it may take awhile.
Raven
It just seems odd an man would attach his name to a book like this? The book sure sounded more like the 'school of prophets' than Oneness. I still wish I had it though. I love any part of Pentecostal history.
Eld. Epley,
When I read it many years ago I got the impression Bro. Yadon was teaching two Gods --a big God named YHWH and a lesser god (a created being) named Jesus. To me it sounded sort of like what I understood Bishop Hancock of the PCAF taught. I could be wrong on both of these opinions.
Some time back in the past I read something by an anti-Oneness person who claimed that Bro. Yadon had plagiarized a previous book that presented Jesus as the Archangel Michael as the JW's do. He claimed that Bro. Yadon had pretty well reproduced that arian book with just a few word changes here and there. I don't know how accurate that was since the person (and I don't remember now who it was) was anti-Oneness.
My former pastor, F.E. Curts, one time referred to Bro. Yadon as "old two god Yadon" when he was talking to me. I don't remember anything else about that conversation.
I would like to read the book again just to see what it really says (or at least what I think it says or how I understand what he is saying).
************************************************** *******
I thought it spoke of YHWH and the Man Christ Jesus. Sometimes folks think a teacher is teaching atleast 2 Gods. Because they talk about Jesus the Man and Jesus the Word Made Flesh. The beginning being YHWH.
I would like to read the book as well.
Nathan Eckstadt
Long ago (about 50 years ago) I had a book called Jehovah-Jesus by C.H. Yadon. It came from the UPC publishing house. It's been gone for years. I would like to read it again. If anyone has a copy they would like to give me, sell to me, or loan to me, please contact me by PM.
I am posting this on a couple of different forums.
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bump
anybody found a copy of this book?
This is from page 24 of the February 1954 Pentecostal Herald
missourimary
01-22-2010, 09:59 PM
When I see ads like these I'm tempted to make a copy and send them to the publisher with a check for the original amount, requesting the book. It would almost be worth the $1.50 or so for the satisfaction of a good laugh!! :haloplug
Sorry I don't have any books from PPH that date from further back than mid 80s or so.
Firewind
01-23-2010, 02:41 PM
Several years ago I obtained a copy of the original book that C.H. Yadon's reprint was based upon. It had once belonged to a Unitarian church library.
About the same time, I was able to purchase an old volume (1870s) by Presbyterian theologian John Miller, which included his treatise "Is God A Trinity?" (This was reprinted about a century later by the UPC.)
I'm hoping I may still have these books in storage, but fear they may have been lost, along with other teasures, after a move. If I ever get them back in my hands I'll let you know, Sam!
pelathais
01-23-2010, 04:31 PM
bump
anybody found a copy of this book?
This is from page 24 of the February 1954 Pentecostal Herald
It says right there how to order it, Sam. What are you waiting for?
Fudge speaking of Yadon says his peers often felt he held trinitarian or even Arian views on the Godhead. And was called derisively by some as "Two-God" Yadon.
It appears that Yadon's christological views were highly influenced by his father in the gospel, Harry Morse of Oakland, CA.
He may have very well held the views of his "father in the Gospel".
Both seem to have held some minority views on such things like " the Godhead, propehcy, eternal punishment, original sin and the new birth".
Morse believed in the annihilation of the wicked.
Men like Yadon, Clyde Haney, David Gray, Ellis Scism were mentored by Morse at his bible training school at his church.
Source: CWTC, page 192.
Michael The Disciple
01-23-2010, 07:27 PM
Morse believed in the annihilation of the wicked.
Dan,
Did he have "sons" who followed him in this belief? Where are they?
Fudge speaking of Yadon says his peers often felt he held trinitarian or even Arian views on the Godhead. And was called derisively by some as "Two-God" Yadon.
...
.
Back in the late nineteen fifties or early nineteen sixties, my pastor referred to him as "two god Yadon" in just a passing reference in a conversation.
I had a copy of his book at one time and read it. I don't remember much about it. It seemed like he wound up with "two" in the godhead --the invisible Spirit and God localized as the Word, so, maybe it wasn't really two beings but God manifested two ways. That belief in Jesus as the Word was also held by Bishop Haywood , John Paterson, Ted Fitch and several others. This is a quote from Bishop Haywood's book on the names of God:
...
I had a copy of his book at one time and read it. I don't remember much about it. It seemed like he wound up with "two" in the godhead --the invisible Spirit and God localized as the Word, so, maybe it wasn't really two beings but God manifested two ways. That belief in Jesus as the Word was also held by Bishop Haywood , John Paterson, Ted Fitch and several others. This is a quote from Bishop Haywood's book on the names of God:
This is a quote from Bishop G.T. Haywood:
Elohim is God, the living God, the power of creation. (John 1:1-3; Col 1:15-17; Rev 3:4-11). He first assumes a creature form, though spiritual in nature (Gen 12:7; 32:24-30; Isa 6:1,5) afterwards, the human form for the purpose of redeeming mankind (Jon 1:14; Heb 2:9, 14, 16, 17; Phil 2:7; Rom 8:3). That Elohim, in His creature form spiritually, who appeared to the patriarchs and prophets is the same who appeared in a human form 1,900 years ago to Israel can be clearly seen by reading the following scriptures: Gen 17:13; Ex 6:2, 3 with John 8:56-58; Isa 6:1, 2, 5, 9, 10 with John 12:39, 40, 41, 44, 45. from page 3 of Divine Names and Titles of Jehovah by Eld G.T. Haywood (no copy right date).
Michael The Disciple
01-23-2010, 08:03 PM
Sam
I had a copy of his book at one time and read it. I don't remember much about it. It seemed like he wound up with "two" in the godhead --the invisible Spirit and God localized as the Word, so, maybe it wasn't really two beings but God manifested two ways. That belief in Jesus as the Word was also held by Bishop Haywood , John Paterson, Ted Fitch and several others.
They taught the true Biblical Oneness doctrine. One God manifest in two ways.
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I thought it spoke of YHWH and the Man Christ Jesus. Sometimes folks think a teacher is teaching atleast 2 Gods. Because they talk about Jesus the Man and Jesus the Word Made Flesh. The beginning being YHWH.
I would like to read the book as well.
Nathan Eckstadt
I also would like to take another look at it.
pelathais
01-23-2010, 08:12 PM
They taught the true Biblical Oneness doctrine. One God manifest in two ways.
One God Who is both "above all" and simultaneously "through all?"
A couple of brief quotes from "God in Christ Jesus" by John Paterson copyright 1966, pages 7-9
"Now what is a "word"? is it not the expression of an inward abstract thought in a substantial concrete form? It means this in English, but, as a matter of fact, the Greek word Logos means not only the expression of the thought, but also the inward thought itself. So we conclude that the Word was the visible expression of the invisible God --in other words, the invisible God embodied in visible form; and not only this, but the Word was, essentially, nothing less than the Eternal God Himself,...
...the One who showed Himself to Abraham, and to Moses, and to the elders of Israel was none other than the eternal Spirit in a visible, personal FORM under the exalted name of Jehovah, the Word.
From the Scriptures quoted it should be obvious that the Word was not merely an impersonal thought existing in the mind of God but was, in reality, the Eternal Spirit Himself clothed upon by a visible and personal form, mercifully veiling the fulness of His glory from His obedient creatures...
pelathais
01-23-2010, 08:38 PM
A couple of brief quotes from "God in Christ Jesus" by John Paterson copyright 1966, pages 7-9
"Now what is a "word"? is it not the expression of an inward abstract thought in a substantial concrete form? It means this in English, but, as a matter of fact, the Greek word Logos means not only the expression of the thought, but also the inward thought itself. So we conclude that the Word was the visible expression of the invisible God --in other words, the invisible God embodied in visible form; and not only this, but the Word was, essentially, nothing less than the Eternal God Himself,...
...the One who showed Himself to Abraham, and to Moses, and to the elders of Israel was none other than the eternal Spirit in a visible, personal FORM under the exalted name of Jehovah, the Word.
From the Scriptures quoted it should be obvious that the Word was not merely an impersonal thought existing in the mind of God but was, in reality, the Eternal Spirit Himself clothed upon by a visible and personal form, mercifully veiling the fulness of His glory from His obedient creatures...
That seems to be the "Christophany" teaching. This is the idea that the man Jesus was to become was the "Ideal" of all men and possessed an appearance even before the Babe was born in Bethlehem.
This teaching is rooted in Platonic philosophy though most Christians who espouse it deny the connection. But Plato taught that everything that possessed any kind of form in the natural world had an "Ideal" in the realm of the Spirit or highest thought. Thus, for all of the horses in the world there was one "ideal" horse which was the pattern that all natural horses attempted to assume.
The same worked for ideas themselves. Our attempts to comprehend justice, for example, are the clumsy and defective natural attempts to replicate the ideal of "Justice" which exists in the Spirit realm or the realm of "Pure Thought."
So, Jesus was the "ideal man." He was the man who possessed all of the qualities that we feebly attempt to imitate. He has always existed and represents the "Ideal" form that all of humanity groans to achieve.
At least that's what they say.
There is a book titled "If Ye Know These Things" by Dr. Ross Drysdale available online at:
http://web.archive.org/web/20041015211301/mikeblume.com/dryindex.htm
Michael The Disciple
01-23-2010, 08:46 PM
That seems to be the "Christophany" teaching. This is the idea that the man Jesus was to become was the "Ideal" of all men and possessed an appearance even before the Babe was born in Bethlehem.
This teaching is rooted in Platonic philosophy though most Christians who espouse it deny the connection. But Plato taught that everything that possessed any kind of form in the natural world had an "Ideal" in the realm of the Spirit or highest thought. Thus, for all of the horses in the world there was one "ideal" horse which was the pattern that all natural horses attempted to assume.
The same worked for ideas themselves. Our attempts to comprehend justice, for example, are the clumsy and defective natural attempts to replicate the ideal of "Justice" which exists in the Spirit realm or the realm of "Pure Thought."
So, Jesus was the "ideal man." He was the man who possessed all of the qualities that we feebly attempt to imitate. He has always existed and represents the "Ideal" form that all of humanity groans to achieve.
At least that's what they say.
Hi Dave,
I have been teaching this doctrine for 29 years. I have never heard the idea you are attributing it. It is fully supported in the Old Testament and is the revelation of One God and one manifestation of himself.
pelathais
01-23-2010, 08:58 PM
Hi Dave,
I have been teaching this doctrine for 29 years. I have never heard the idea you are attributing it. It is fully supported in the Old Testament and is the revelation of One God and one manifestation of himself.
A lot of people have said that the Jewish scriptures as well as the NT were interacting with this Hellenic concept, or at least using similar motifs to express what God was revealing to them. Romans 8:29 is often used as an example.
Dan,
Did he have "sons" who followed him in this belief? Where are they?
Morse seems to be an enigma, Mike. I don't know if any of those who he influenced adapted annihilation ... according to Fudge's research he never really accepted by the Oneness radicals ... Although it appears Goss kept ties with him throughout.
From a recent conversation I learned that Clyde Haney and David Gray met their wives at his bible training school.
He lost favor with guys in the UPC eventually following the "Latter Rain" crowd while also believing in the annihilation of the wicked and possibly some would say dualism.
Ewart writes in a letter about Morse teaching "Jesus was a created being and is separate from the Father".
In a recent GC conference, I think 2008, I distinctly remember Kenneth Haney recalling how his dad and uncle David Gray had to break ties with some over Latter Rain doctrine which had crept into the Oneness movement.
Morse is an interesting man that I think deserves more research and study.
This PCI man was a mentor to Gray, Haney, Yadon, Scism and Vouga and
Others.
Michael The Disciple
01-24-2010, 03:58 AM
No doubt the greatest Teaching on this version of Oneness doctrine was by the late John Eckstat. I have never heard more marvelous teaching in my life.
No doubt the greatest Teaching on this version of Oneness doctrine was by the late John Eckstat. I have never heard more marvelous teaching in my life.
I think Nathan has some of his dad's teaching available on CD.
He may want to chime in here and give an address or you may want to PM him.
Scott Pitta
11-21-2014, 03:58 PM
The best place to find a book is called bookfinder.com
I have not read Yadon's book. Urshan also wrote a godhead book, as well as Ewart.
Michael The Disciple
11-21-2014, 05:24 PM
Yodan wrote:
"It was the same divine 'Angel,' the 'God of Israel,' that was seen by Moses and the elders of Israel on Mount Sinai, and who spoke to them there. We are told that 'no man hath seen God at any time,' that is, God as a Spirit. What they saw must have been the Angel Jehovah, the same who 'spoke unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto a friend' -- The Lord, (Jehovah) who spoke to Moses not in a vision, nor in a dream, but mouth to mouth, even apparently, whose 'similitude' he beheld. He was a created being, because 'seen' and talked with 'mouth to mouth' and ;face to face' yet also Jehovah, God Himself. He was the Spiritual Rock, the 'angel' that was with the Israelites in the wilderness, which 'Rock was Christ'" (C.H. Yadon, Jehovah-Jesus, p. 51).
He had more truth than modern Oneness. Of course out of context it could be seen as Arian but I dont think that was the case. He is trying to describe the real version of Biblical Oneness.
He says the angel of the Lord was Jehovah God himself. That nails it.
Scott Pitta
05-09-2015, 08:01 AM
Jehovah-Jesus was penned by Robert Dodd Weeks in 1876. It was revised by Yadon in 1952.
The Meeks original is still in print and easily available. I have not found Yadon's revision.
My question is how did Harry Morse impact the revision of the book. I was told by a former member of Morse's church that he believed in 2 Gods.
Is there a Yadon scholar ??
Michael The Disciple
05-10-2015, 02:37 AM
"It was the same divine 'Angel,' the 'God of Israel,' that was seen by Moses and the elders of Israel on Mount Sinai, and who spoke to them there. We are told that 'no man hath seen God at any time,' that is, God as a Spirit. What they saw must have been the Angel Jehovah, the same who 'spoke unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto a friend' -- The Lord, (Jehovah) who spoke to Moses not in a vision, nor in a dream, but mouth to mouth, even apparently, whose 'similitude' he beheld. He was a created being, because 'seen' and talked with 'mouth to mouth' and ;face to face' yet also Jehovah, God Himself. He was the Spiritual Rock, the 'angel' that was with the Israelites in the wilderness, which 'Rock was Christ'" (C.H. Yadon, Jehovah-Jesus, p. 51).
If this is indeed Yodens doctrine I accept it. This frail doctrine about Christ pre existying only as a "thought" or "plan" makes Oneness look foolish in the debates I have seen with Trins.
Jito463
05-10-2015, 06:40 AM
If this is indeed Yodens doctrine I accept it. This frail doctrine about Christ pre existying only as a "thought" or "plan" makes Oneness look foolish in the debates I have seen with Trins.
How could Jesus pre-exist? Jesus was God only in the sense that He was THE God, our Father. Anything else, leads to binitarianism.
Michael The Disciple
05-10-2015, 09:15 AM
How could Jesus pre-exist? Jesus was God only in the sense that He was THE God, our Father. Anything else, leads to binitarianism.
Well God the Father is God the Father...not a mere "thought" or "plan".
Jito463
05-10-2015, 09:23 AM
Well God the Father is God the Father...not a mere "thought" or "plan".
Okay, but the way I read it made it seem like another appeared before them, rather than the Father. I must have misread/misunderstood. If that's the case, then I apologize. Just wanted to make sure we're all in the truth. :)
The concept of Christ pre-existing as a thought or plan refers to the *man* Christ Jesus, not His deity.
Esaias
05-10-2015, 12:11 PM
A logos is more than a mere idea. It is a WORD, both the idea expressed by a term AND the term expressing the idea. Logos therefore implies the EXPRESSION of an idea, an idea existing in a FORM giving it character and substance.
At In the first century Jews understood "LOGOS" as referring to the Torah, the law of God (not merely the written scriptures, but the CONTENT of the scriptures). This was viewed as the self expression or self revelation of YHVH in this world. Even the prophetic utterances of the nabi (prophets) were "the word or logos of God" as the utterance was the manifestation in this reality of God expressing himself. This was intimately connected to THE NAME as well, which was the premier example of the WORD. The "angel" manifesting as the pillar of cloud and fire had "My Name" in him. That is, the Angel was the carrier or herald of the divine essence and reality. Or in modern terms, a theophany or manifestation of the Deity, as the Self Revelation of God.
This Word was "made flesh" as the man Jesus, bearing the DIVINE NAME "received by inheritance". Thus, Christ is the ANGEL OF YHVH, not as a created spirit being like regular angels, but THE angel (Messenger) of YHVH - God's self expression in this universe.
Michael The Disciple
05-10-2015, 02:32 PM
A logos is more than a mere idea. It is a WORD, both the idea expressed by a term AND the term expressing the idea. Logos therefore implies the EXPRESSION of an idea, an idea existing in a FORM giving it character and substance.
[QUOTE]At In the first century Jews understood "LOGOS" as referring to the Torah, the law of God (not merely the written scriptures, but the CONTENT of the scriptures). This was viewed as the self expression or self revelation of YHVH in this world. Even the prophetic utterances of the nabi (prophets) were "the word or logos of God" as the utterance was the manifestation in this reality of God expressing himself. This was intimately connected to THE NAME as well, which was the premier example of the WORD. The "angel" manifesting as the pillar of cloud and fire had "My Name" in him. That is, the Angel was the carrier or herald of the divine essence and reality. Or in modern terms, a theophany or manifestation of the Deity, as the Self Revelation of God.
This is the part that is usually wholly absent from Oneness Pentecostal teaching.
Who being in THE FORM OF GOD thought it not robbery to be equal with God......
Israel saw the angel of YHWH as being HIM. They never minimized this. This is what John meant in John 1:1.
In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and GOD WAS THE WORD. Literal Greek.
I cant think of a debate with Trins where a Oneness has responded to this verse correctly. They drag out the old tired and frail "ideal existence" concept and their command in the debate quickly evaporates.
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