What Difference Does it Make?? Is this Forum REALLY APOSTOLIC?????

[Carpenter]

I was speaking with a friend yesterday telling him about this forum, then I received a PM from another friend lamenting about what this community has become.

I am kind of frustrated at a couple of things.

There seems to be somewhat of a silent exodus from this forum of men and ladies that once carried the water in our other forums.

In PMs and such, there is a consistent line throughout their reasoning that "they have had enough of shallow talk, the piling on, unaccountibility, blasting people instead of issues, etc. In addition, this person told me that he/she feels the deeper thinking posts/threads are ignored. Some have said this forum is getting worse than NFCF or FCF on their worst of days.

I am not sure I agree, but that is the point nevertheless.

We are quick to say "So Long" to these people and it is sad. On the other hand the forum is only as good and has as much quality as people are willing to offer.

I have one question...in the mission statement of this forum it implies that folks here are Apostolic. Given some of what I have seen and read...I am seriously questioning if this is indeed true.

[rgcraig]

I think this board is made up of mostly Apostolic believers. However, I think there are a few newer members that think way outside the box.

[TRIPLE E]

I think this board is made up of mostly Apostolic believers. However, I think there are a few newer members that think way outside the box.

I am Apostolic believe it or not.

[rgcraig]

I am Apostolic believe it or not.

You can't judge a book by its cover.

[SDG]

I am more Apostolic than all of y'all!!!!

[SoCaliUPC]

Wasn't going to take long before we had one of THESE threads.

[rgcraig]

Guess we need to define Apostolic.

[SDG]

Guess we need to define Apostolic.

Oh boy ... :dunno

[ReformedDave]

I was speaking with a friend yesterday telling him about this forum, then I received a PM from another friend lamenting about what this community has become.

I am kind of frustrated at a couple of things.

There seems to be somewhat of a silent exodus from this forum of men and ladies that once carried the water in our other forums.

In PMs and such, there is a consistent line throughout their reasoning that "they have had enough of shallow talk, the piling on, unaccountibility, blasting people instead of issues, etc. In addition, this person told me that he/she feels the deeper thinking posts/threads are ignored. Some have said this forum is getting worse than NFCF or FCF on their worst of days.

I am not sure I agree, but that is the point nevertheless.

We are quick to say "So Long" to these people and it is sad. On the other hand the forum is only as good and has as much quality as people are willing to offer.

I have one question...in the mission statement of this forum it implies that folks here are Apostolic. Given some of what I have seen and read...I am seriously questioning if this is indeed true.

For the most part the shallowness started with NFCF. It was really bad the last 6 months. There is a lack of thought and depth here but that is where most are at.

I've started posting on another forum more to my liking.

[rgcraig]

For the most part the shallowness started with NFCF. It was really bad the last 6 months. There is a lack of thought and depth here but that is where most are at.

I've started posting on another forum more to my liking.

Maybe I'm missing something. Is this suppose to be a completely serious, indepth forum?

[ReformedDave]

Maybe I'm missing something. Is this suppose to be a completely serious, indepth forum?

I do understand that this is a far different forum than Jim Yohe's was so I guess the answer is 'No".

[rgcraig]

I do understand that this is a far different forum than Jim Yohe's was so I guess the answer is 'No".

I think there is a good mix for the most part here. To have more indepth discussions, there just needs to be more willing to make them.

[Tina]

I think there is a good mix for the most part here. To have more indepth discussions, there just needs to be more willing to make them.

The thing that I am seeing that REALLY does bother me about this forum is that when someone DOES start a serious type thread... someone comes in and derails the discussion and takes it off on something else totally off the wall-- and the original poster just gives up on the discussion.

Maybe we as admins need to step up in those threads and tell people to take the "playing" out to another thread. But honestly I don't have time to do that kind of babysitting.

People just need to learn to respect the serious discussions enough to stop doing that to the threads. Otherwise, eventually those who are attempting to carry on some serious discussions are just going to give up and leave. JMO. (And that's my personal opinion... not that of the administrative team)

[rgcraig]

The thing that I am seeing that REALLY does bother me about this forum is that when someone DOES start a serious type thread... someone comes in and derails the discussion and takes it off on something else totally off the wall-- and the original poster just gives up on the discussion.

Maybe we as admins need to step up in those threads and tell people to take the "playing" out to another thread. But honestly I don't have time to do that kind of babysitting.

People just need to learn to respect the serious discussions enough to stop doing that to the threads. Otherwise, eventually those who are attempting to carry on some serious discussions are just going to give up and leave. JMO. (And that's my personal opinion... not that of the administrative team)
Very good point and I think you might have hit the nail squarely on the head.

[JN Anderson]

I think that AFF must make a decision, or must have already made a decision, to either be a genuinely Apostolic forum (holding to Apostolic fundamentals, not necessarily standards) or to be an ecumenical forum. We then will decide if we wish to be a part one way or the other.

[Felicity]

I'm guilty of posting off-topic. :o Oftentimes I respond to a comment someone has made in a previous post that might or might not have much to do with the original subject. But really, all it takes is for someone to jerk it back on topic.

I don't see how going off-topic can be prevented. It happens in real life discussion ... people digress ... then go back to the original subject.

It seems at present there just aren't enough people who are willing to put the time and energy into keeping some of these discussions going. Not enough "iron" anymore I guess. Or enough energy or interest.

I know we have people posting who are good thinkers, intelligent and articulate. Perhaps it's that we've already gone over many of these things already .... same people posting the same things and responding to the same issues.

[rgcraig]

I'm guilty of posting off-topic. :o Oftentimes I respond to a comment someone has made in a previous post that might or might not have much to do with the original subject. But really, all it takes is for someone to jerk it back on topic.

I don't see how going off-topic can be prevented. It happens in real life discussion ... people digress ... then go back to the original subject.

It seems at present there just aren't enough people who are willing to put the time and energy into keeping some of these discussions going. Not enough "iron" anymore I guess. Or enough energy or interest.

I know we have people posting who are good thinkers, intelligent and articulate. Perhaps it's that we've already gone over many of these things already .... same people posting the same things and responding to the same issues.

I think there's a difference in what you are talking about and what Tina said. You are right, most threads will get off topic, but usually comes back around.

What I read from Tina's post is those that start "making light" or joking with the poster causing a defensive type posting necessary completely breaking down the discussion.

[TRIPLE E]

Guess we need to define Apostolic.

Have fun!

[Tina]

Perhaps it's that we've already gone over many of these things already .... same people posting the same things and responding to the same issues.

Maybe. But different things come out each time a topic is discussed. There's a different audience each time.... and you just never know who will pick up something from the posts that will feed their soul.

I went through a year when our church was without a pastor. Then there were some additional things that happened following that which made me question if church was even where I wanted to be at all.

It was one of the roughest times I'd ever been through. If it hadn't been for some of the ministers and the things they posted on the forums... I wouldn't have had the strength to go on-- and quite honestly-- I don't know that I'd still be attending church at all if it hadn't been for some of the things the ministers and other people on these forums said that kept me encouraged.

I don't want people to think that it's not worth the time to post your comments again. You never know who is reading these forums that needs to read exactly what you feel is something you've said a million times before... and just don't think it's worth saying again.

[rgcraig]

Have fun!

I know, but that's the root of the problem.

[Carpenter]

Wasn't going to take long before we had one of THESE threads.

Are you surprised that I am the one who wrote it? Do you have a problem with these types of threads?

What's the deal?

[Tina]

What I read from Tina's post is those that start "making light" or joking with the poster causing a defensive type posting necessary completely breaking down the discussion.

That was exactly what I meant.

[BrotherEastman]

I appreciate my Apostolic brothers and sisters, however, it becomes difficult to have civil discussions when there is organization bashing. I do not plan to bash other Apostolics on this forum. I will no longer feel free to come over here, so long as there are negative comments made about the group of Apostolics I belong to. If anyone feels negatively about an organization, they should keep it to themselves, especially if they have the same baptism of like precious faith. I realize that there are people who put labels on others, such as 'liberal' or 'conservative' and that in itself is fine, we can discuss those issues w/out bashing a specific church. When bashing becomes part of a forum, then it is hard for me to respect his/her views. If we are all Apostolics, then we are all related as spiritual brothers and sisters, and I suppose that this is something that even I myself should remember.

[Felicity]

I think there's a difference in what you are talking about and what Tina said. You are right, most threads will get off topic, but usually comes back around.

What I read from Tina's post is those that start "making light" or joking with the poster causing a defensive type posting necessary completely breaking down the discussion. Hasn't this always been a part of forum discussion?

I do think that the original FCF was more serious in intent and therefore in discussion as well ...... but there still was joking, giving people a hard time and all the other stuff that makes up the dynamics of forum discussion going on then. It was awesome at its best! :)

I agree with Reformed Dave's remarks about the increasing shallowness. That's not meant as a put-down or anything like that.

[rgcraig]

Hasn't this always been a part of forum discussion?

I do think that the original FCF was more serious in intent and therefore in discussion as well ...... but there still was joking, giving people a hard time and all the other stuff that makes up the dynamics of forum discussion going on then. It was awesome at its best! :)

I agree with Reformed Dave's remarks about the increasing shallowness. That's not meant as a put-down or anything like that.

Okay, substitue the word shallowness instead of joking, then we are saying the say thing.

Joking is fine and we all do that, but when it becomes "making fun" joking that's where it goes south.

[ManOfWord]

This forum is no more or less than the people who choose to post here. If we posted a "doctrinal statement" that people must adhere to before becoming a member, can anyone imagine the kind of nightmare that would become? How does something like that get policed" Let alone, stifiling serious discussion from the right and left.


I am apostolic to the core. Some probably disagree with that. But if we only allow one "brand" of apostolics then this forum will be of little help to anyone except "us four and no more!" Let freedom ring on AFF! Let the diversity bless us all! Let "apostolica" be discussed, dissected, praised, cajoled, criticized and whatever needs to be brought up. We all need a place to have freedom in discussion without repercussion! :D

[Felicity]

I appreciate my Apostolic brothers and sisters, however, it becomes difficult to have civil discussions when there is organization bashing. I do not plan to bash other Apostolics on this forum. I will no longer feel free to come over here, so long as there are negative comments made about the group of Apostolics I belong to. If anyone feels negatively about an organization, they should keep it to themselves, especially if they have the same baptism of like precious faith. I realize that there are people who put labels on others, such as 'liberal' or 'conservative' and that in itself is fine, we can discuss those issues w/out bashing a specific church. When bashing becomes part of a forum, then it is hard for me to respect his/her views. If we are all Apostolics, then we are all related as spiritual brothers and sisters, and I suppose that this is something that even I myself should remember.Bro. Eastman .....

There's always been UPC bashing on these forums. The original intent and purpose of FCF was to give UPCers and others the opportunity to discuss their issues and to discuss what is going on in the UPC. It wasn't the intent to "bash" the UPC but to allow open and free discussion about issues in the UPC and Oneness apostolic movement without fear of reprisal.

You my brother .... have the opportunity and freedom here to speak up and affirm the UPC .... and to emphasize the positive. :)

I don't see that much UPC bashing really.

[Felicity]

This forum is no more or less than the people who choose to post here. If we posted a "doctrinal statement" that people must adhere to before becoming a member, can anyone imagine the kind of nightmare that would become? How does something like that get policed" Let alone, stifiling serious discussion from the right and left.


I am apostolic to the core. Some probably disagree with that. But if we only allow one "brand" of apostolics then this forum will be of little help to anyone except "us four and no more!" Let freedom ring on AFF! Let the diversity bless us all! Let "apostolica" be discussed, dissected, praised, cajoled, criticized and whatever needs to be brought up. We all need a place to have freedom in discussion without repercussion! :DAgreed!

[Carpenter]

I appreciate my Apostolic brothers and sisters, however, it becomes difficult to have civil discussions when there is organization bashing. I do not plan to bash other Apostolics on this forum. I will no longer feel free to come over here, so long as there are negative comments made about the group of Apostolics I belong to. If anyone feels negatively about an organization, they should keep it to themselves, especially if they have the same baptism of like precious faith. I realize that there are people who put labels on others, such as 'liberal' or 'conservative' and that in itself is fine, we can discuss those issues w/out bashing a specific church. When bashing becomes part of a forum, then it is hard for me to respect his/her views. If we are all Apostolics, then we are all related as spiritual brothers and sisters, and I suppose that this is something that even I myself should remember.

Brother Eastman...you are all over the board here. You are essentially saying everything is out of bounds. I disagree.

I believe that any organization worth its salt should be strong enough to endure questions, comments, challenges, and scrutiny. To some people what I mentioned above IS bashing, I don't believe so. I think everyone or at least most people around here understand that it is out of bounds to discuss any one individual. Individual churches are not so black and white.

I think we all appreciate in-depth topical conversations.

[Truthseeker]

For the most part the shallowness started with NFCF. It was really bad the last 6 months. There is a lack of thought and depth here but that is where most are at.

I've started posting on another forum more to my liking.


which forum is that?

[rgcraig]

Bro. Eastman .....

There's always been UPC bashing on these forums. The original intent and purpose of FCF was to give UPCers and others the opportunity to discuss their issues and to discuss what is going on in the UPC. It wasn't the intent to "bash" the UPC but to allow open and free discussion about issues in the UPC and Oneness apostolic movement without fear of reprisal.

You my brother .... have the opportunity and freedom here to speak up and affirm the UPC .... and to emphasize the positive. :)

I don't see that much UPC bashing really.Agree! I said yesterday, sometimes it's how you "hear" it anyway. Most of us have UPC roots if not still in UPC and feel that we have just as much right to talk about it as anyone else - negative and positive alike and aren't bashing it at all.

[Nahum]

We take ourselves entirely too seriously.

That's all.

[rgcraig]

We take ourselves entirely too seriously.

That's all.
Or at least some do.

[rgcraig]

I cannot imagine how boring this place would be if we all thought exactly alike!

[Felicity]

I cannot imagine how boring this place would be if we all thought exactly alike! Everybody should think like me! :bliss



:heeheehee

[Carpenter]

This forum is no more or less than the people who choose to post here. If we posted a "doctrinal statement" that people must adhere to before becoming a member, can anyone imagine the kind of nightmare that would become? How does something like that get policed" Let alone, stifiling serious discussion from the right and left.


I am apostolic to the core. Some probably disagree with that. But if we only allow one "brand" of apostolics then this forum will be of little help to anyone except "us four and no more!" Let freedom ring on AFF! Let the diversity bless us all! Let "apostolica" be discussed, dissected, praised, cajoled, criticized and whatever needs to be brought up. We all need a place to have freedom in discussion without repercussion! :D


MOW...I agree with you. What I disagree with is someone coming here promoting a fringe heretical so called "ministry" and then taking an additional step by making it personal when someone disagrees with it.

I also think it is detremental to the forum when people misrepresent themselves as well.

[BrotherEastman]

Bro. Eastman .....

There's always been UPC bashing on these forums. The original intent and purpose of FCF was to give UPCers and others the opportunity to discuss their issues and to discuss what is going on in the UPC. It wasn't the intent to "bash" the UPC but to allow open and free discussion about issues in the UPC and Oneness apostolic movement without fear of reprisal.

You my brother .... have the opportunity and freedom here to speak up and affirm the UPC .... and to emphasize the positive. :)

I don't see that much UPC bashing really.
Perhaps your right sis, I know that not everyone agrees with the UPC in all areas, but we preach and teach the baptism of Jesus name and the infilling of the Holy Ghost just like most Apostolics. If we are trying to reach the lost, but putting other orgs. down, how could we be effective? I was pretty upset in a different thread (I beleive you know the one I talking about) concerning some allegations that were brought up, now to me this isn't edifying at all.

[rgcraig]

Everybody should think like me! :bliss



:heeheehee

You know you'd hate that! You've said yourself you like to be challenged.

I know you are just kidding, but there are some that really want that.

[BrotherEastman]

Brother Eastman...you are all over the board here. You are essentially saying everything is out of bounds. I disagree.

I believe that any organization worth its salt should be strong enough to endure questions, comments, challenges, and scrutiny. To some people what I mentioned above IS bashing, I don't believe so. I think everyone or at least most people around here understand that it is out of bounds to discuss any one individual. Individual churches are not so black and white.

I think we all appreciate in-depth topical conversations.
So you think that these bolded statements are edifying to those that would simply lurk?

[Felicity]

Perhaps your right sis, I know that not everyone agrees with the UPC in all areas, but we preach and teach the baptism of Jesus name and the infilling of the Holy Ghost just like most Apostolics. If we are trying to reach the lost, but putting other orgs. down, how could we be effective? I was pretty upset in a different thread (I beleive you know the one I talking about) concerning some allegations that were brought up, now to me this isn't edifying at all.I understand. And see..... you had the opportunity to speak up and disagree as strongly as you wished. And you were heard bro.

So more than one side of that coin was presented. Which is good of course!

[SDG]

Perhaps your right sis, I know that not everyone agrees with the UPC in all areas, but we preach and teach the baptism of Jesus name and the infilling of the Holy Ghost just like most Apostolics. If we are trying to reach the lost, but putting other orgs. down, how could we be effective? I was pretty upset in a different thread (I beleive you know the one I talking about) concerning some allegations that were brought up, now to me this isn't edifying at all.

Brother Eastman ... we've dialogued at various forums and have agreed and disagreed on various issues ... but I've known you to be fair. If you are going to address this issue let's step back for a moment ... are trinitarians, liberals, conservatives, the PAW, Episcopalians immune from criticism here??? ... I think not. We must realize that we are here to opine ... sometimes we may not agree but none the less it's someone's opinion. I think it's healthy to see what others think of us ... We cannot live in a bubble.

The moderators here do an excellent job in policing 'bashing'. I know because ... I've been spanked a few times.

[rgcraig]

We all come here for different reason and the sooner we accept that the smoother things can go.

As for as it being an Apostolic forum, I believe the majority rules and the majority are Apostolic.

[Nahum]

Of late, I have been slammed because I am not "theological" enough.
FYI everybody, that is not why I am part of any forum (other than the Puritan Mind Forum). I come here for fellowship.

My theological views were long ago settled. Most of the recent "theological" discussions are totally self-defeating and meant to divide those friends who gather here. Stupid things like "Are you PCI or PAJC?", and "The Hair Issue".

There was a time when I would have been completely interested in those sorts of things. I do enjoy the discussion occasionally. But my core beliefs have been settled for a long, long time.

I have written a book that is soon to be published, but there is no way I would share the theological content on here. It would become fodder for name-calling and vain babbling debates.

There are many who post here who absolutely are not Apostolic in any way. I have no problem with it as long as the tolerance they so deeply crave is not traded for hatred towards more traditional Apostolics.

We can debate ideology all day long.
But I am through with the "he said, she said" junk.

I guess if people can't deal with that, they can put me on ignore.

[BrotherEastman]

Brother Eastman ... we've dialogued at various forums and have agreed and disagreed on various issues ... but I've known you to be fair. If you are going to address this issue let's step back for a moment ... are trinitarians, liberals, conservatives, the PAW, Episcopalians immune from criticism here??? ... I think not. We must realize that we are here to opine ... sometimes we may not agree but none the less it's someone's opinion. I think it's healthy to see what others think of us ... We cannot live in a bubble.

The moderators here do an excellent job in policing 'bashing'. I know because ... I've been spanked a few times.
Dan, you may or may not beleive this, but I consider you to be a brother in Christ, so therefore I love you as a brother in Christ. It's just that I did not plan to come here and speak negatively about someones org. Thank you for the post and your kind words (didn't know you had it in ya, I'm sure you probably thought the same). God bless you!

[SoCaliUPC]

We all come here for different reason and the sooner we accept that the smoother things can go.

As for as it being an Apostolic forum, I believe the majority rules and the majority are Apostolic.

Exactly Renda.

There are obvioulsy people here for pure theological discussion...others are just here to fellowship with others.

I kinda grow tired of hearing others complain that this forum or another forum is full of "fluff" and yet they add ZERO to start what they are complaining about.

As for this forum, I have seen a good mix.

[SDG]

Of late, I have been slammed because I am not "theological" enough.
FYI everybody, that is not why I am part of any forum (other than the Puritan Mind Forum). I come here for fellowship.

My theological views were long ago settled. Most of the recent "theological" discussions are totally self-defeating and meant to divide those friends who gather here. Stupid things like "Are you PCI or PAJC?", and "The Hair Issue".

There was a time when I would have been completely interested in those sorts of things. I do enjoy the discussion occasionally. But my core beliefs have been settled for a long, long time.

I have written a book that is soon to be published, but there is no way I would share the theological content on here. It would become fodder for name-calling and vain babbling debates.

There are many who post here who absolutely are not Apostolic in any way. I have no problem with it as long as the tolerance they so deeply crave is not traded for hatred towards more traditional Apostolics.

We can debate ideology all day long.
But I am through with the "he said, she said" junk.

I guess if people can't deal with that, they can put me on ignore.

PP, I enjoy your fellowship greatly and your brilliant mind. Can't wait for the book so I can shred it .... metaphorically speaking .... Love ya bro.

Dan

[Felicity]

You know you'd hate that! You've said yourself you like to be challenged.

I know you are just kidding, but there are some that really want that. LOL. True I guess. And I've certainly been challenged many many times to the point of tears and anger too!! LOL! I know ... this isn't real life and we're not supposed to get emotional on these forums but I certainly have when I felt like the "hounds of hell" were on my trail. :heeheehee

Iron sharpens iron. This has been said a number of times lately and it's true. I miss some of the "iron" that was such a large factor in past discussion and here's partly why ....

There are certain people who have great skill at presenting arguments and thoughts and topics and are able to debate and present their thoughts in a way that challenges us and causes us in turn to dig a little deeper and work a little harder at presenting and articulating our own views and opinions. So you get the "iron sharpening iron" effect.

It's great. It's certainly challenged me at times -- that's for sure. I've learned a lot as a result.

[SDG]

Dan, you may or may not beleive this, but I consider you to be a brother in Christ, so therefore I love you as a brother in Christ. It's just that I did not plan to come here and speak negatively about someones org. Thank you for the post and your kind words (didn't know you had it in ya, I'm sure you probably thought the same). God bless you!

Brother Eastman, I love you more than you love me. :tease :tease :tease

Now take it like a man ... just kidding.

[J-Roc]

Of late, I have been slammed because I am not "theological" enough..


Yeah, I remember you slammed me for not being "substantive" enough... rofl :ranting


Some people do get tired of explaining some of the things over and over...I know that's the case for me here at times since I poured out a lot of energy on another forum (some of us sometimes need breathers)

...sometimes it's just the same :beatdeadhorse ...so if I am not substantive enough for you...just know I may be a little tired, or busy with some other obligations, and I like to pop in to read some of the good stuff that are on here from people like Truly Blessed, Felicity, MOW, DA, etc.....

[Carpenter]

So you think that these bolded statements are edifying to those that would simply lurk?

I could care less about people who lurk but for one reason or another don't have the courage or level of interest to defend their position or to tell us what they think.

I don't worry about straw men, white elephants, 1000lb gorillas, red herrings, or ghosts...

[SDG]

Quite honestly ... I have been of the opinion that if you can't be challenged or defend what you believe then you don't believe it at all ... this forum is a blessing to me because all sides are tolerated ... and of course in any setting where people congregate...be it at church , school , the office, we're going to have disagreements ... but at the end the day .... it usually is healthy and cathartic. JMO.

[J-Roc]

Dan's word of the week = cathartic :highfive

[crakjak]

The thing that I am seeing that REALLY does bother me about this forum is that when someone DOES start a serious type thread... someone comes in and derails the discussion and takes it off on something else totally off the wall-- and the original poster just gives up on the discussion.

Maybe we as admins need to step up in those threads and tell people to take the "playing" out to another thread. But honestly I don't have time to do that kind of babysitting.

People just need to learn to respect the serious discussions enough to stop doing that to the threads. Otherwise, eventually those who are attempting to carry on some serious discussions are just going to give up and leave. JMO. (And that's my personal opinion... not that of the administrative team)

That is the most serious issue with "in depth" threads, I agree it is very frustrating. Well said, Tina.

[crakjak]

I'm guilty of posting off-topic. :o Oftentimes I respond to a comment someone has made in a previous post that might or might not have much to do with the original subject. But really, all it takes is for someone to jerk it back on topic.

I don't see how going off-topic can be prevented. It happens in real life discussion ... people digress ... then go back to the original subject.

It seems at present there just aren't enough people who are willing to put the time and energy into keeping some of these discussions going. Not enough "iron" anymore I guess. Or enough energy or interest.

I know we have people posting who are good thinkers, intelligent and articulate. Perhaps it's that we've already gone over many of these things already .... same people posting the same things and responding to the same issues.

For me it is not the off topic as much as the thread denigrating into a jabbing sound bite contest.:ranting

[Sam]

Guess we need to define Apostolic.

That would be difficult, if not impossible.
Everyone seems to have a different opinion of what a REAL Apostolic is.
Many seem to think that they are the only REAL Apostolic and others come up short.
Each of us want to set up our self as the REAL measuring rod against which all others should be measured.

[Sam]

Perhaps your right sis, I know that not everyone agrees with the UPC in all areas, ...

Not everyone in the UPC agrees with the UPC in all areas.

[Hoovie]

Not everyone in the UPC agrees with the UPC in all areas.

LOL! A very safe statement!

[Steve Epley]

Folks this is a "fussing" forum take the fussing out and there is NO forum. Libs only or cons only it would be a boring smooch fest that would die in a week.
I think any organization is a prime subject when they officially do something and NONE of them are sacred cows not to be touched. There are folks on here that I doubt their Apostolic identity I think they are confused and have no idea what they are? But if a person is super sensitive then a forum like this is not good for them because they will chew on it after they get off here. When I turn this computer off it is over I have a life-wife-church family-duties and I am not carry y'all around with me with the exception of praying for different folks at times. This is NOT what I am living for. I enjoy it the heated discussions gets the ole 'gray cells" activated and is educational and fun. So if you stay offended go fishing-knitting-sleeping-walking-anything but stay off here! ONLY thick skin folks need to be on here. Just some random thoughts.:highfive

[SDG]

Folks this is a "fussing" forum take the fussing out and there is NO forum. Libs only or cons only it would be a boring smooch fest that would die in a week.
I think any organization is a prime subject when they officially do something and NONE of them are sacred cows not to be touched. There are folks on here that I doubt their Apostolic identity I think they are confused and have no idea what they are? But if a person is super sensitive then a forum like this is not good for them because they will chew on it after they get off here. When I turn this computer off it is over I have a life-wife-church family-duties and I am not carry y'all around with me with the exception of praying for different folks at times. This is NOT what I am living for. I enjoy it the heated discussions gets the ole 'gray cells" activated and is educational and fun. So if you stay offended go fishing-knitting-sleeping-walking-anything but stay off here! ONLY thick skin folks need to be on here. Just some random thoughts.:highfive

and I'm game ... Tennis anyone???

[Jekyll]

It's alright if you can get to ignoring the village idiot...

You know, the one jumping around from thread to thread posting as if on Ridlin, turning threads into 2nd grade insult contests...

[SDG]

It's alright if you can get to ignoring the village idiot...

You know, the one jumping around from thread to thread posting as if on Ridlin, turning threads into 2nd grade insult contests...

I would report this thread but I'll let it stand on its merits .... Jekyll ... am I always on your mind ???

[Sister Truth Seeker]

You can please some of the people some of the time but not all the people all of the time, the forum has something for everyone, and people will come and go, as in life...


I think this forum is a wonderful place to come for entertainment, prayer, fellowship, not necessarily in that order...I don't get into heavy topics on the forum...just my preference!

[Jekyll]

I would report this thread but I'll let it stand on its merits .... Jekyll ... am I always on your mind ???
Oh, my goodness, are you feeling guilty??

[SDG]

Oh, my goodness, are you feeling guilty??

Jekyll ... Jesus loves you.

[Neck]

Guess we need to define Apostolic.

I was a new member starting Jan on the other forum. Here is my definition from another Thread earlier this month.

Apostolic:

Salvation through the Blood of the Lamb.

Through Repentance, formula of Baptism in the Name of Jesus and the infilling of the HG by speaking in tounges.

I believe that Jesus is the "He" Father in Creation, Son in Redemption and Holy Spirit in Outpouring and infilling.

I believe in the Rapture.

I believe in the 5 fold Ministry.

I believe Prayer does work that God does not have the entire history of man thought out. Which would be predestination.

I believe in soul sleep, the person does not go to heaven or hell at death.

I believe that the book of Revelations holds the keys to the last days.

I have found many of the UPCI standards not to be heaven or hell issues.


Nathan Eckstadt
__________________
Son of the Late Oneness UPCI Minister John Eckstadt
Go Milwaukee Brewers! It's our year...Not the Cubbies!

[deacon blues]

You can't judge a book by its cover.

I think he's ApALLAHstolic!:heeheehee

[Jekyll]

Jekyll ... Jesus loves you.
Well, of course He does...

Why, oh why would you think that I am talking about you??

[Jekyll]

BTW, report away, if you feel the need...

[SDG]

Well, of course He does...

Why, oh why would you think that I am talking about you??

because you are filled w/ vitriol my good brother ...

Remember ...

At risk of being banned

I am using great restraint in not disparaging DanielAlicea or making fun of his name or starting a uh..._______ match.

Conversing with this individual is like trying to teach your children values, ethics, and personal integrity...then having the spoiled bratty p.k. use filthy language, sport wicked attitudes and *wink* *wink* get away with it because of who their parents are...then make fun of your children in front of the other kids for being virtuous...(and I know he is a former UPC preacher's son...maybe he was even like this, but I don't know...)

Theoretical arugments and proofs are corkscrewed by this individual, taken apart and reassembled only to confuse issues even further...

Go ahead, "ADMIN! ADMIN! HE IS ATTACKING ME!! GREAT christian love and attitude HE is showing!!!"

You, sir can do your best to cloud minds, create paths that lead to places other than salvation (you wouldn't do that, would you?), and tickle all of the itching ears you can...

But to masquerade as a finder of truth and stimulator of thought is a farce...

[Jekyll]

because you are filled w/ vitriol my good brother ...

Remember ...
Really, are you so arogant to think that I come here a couple of times a week just to read your nonsense?? Not everything is about you, get over yourself...

Although it really tickles me that you could find such an old post and give it another run...

And, do not confuse "vitriol" with not having patience for nonsense that pours from the keyboards of some...

[SDG]

Really, are you so arogant to think that I come here a couple of times a week just to read your nonsense?? Not everything is about you, get over yourself...

Although it really tickles me that you could find such an old post and give it another run...

And, do not confuse "vitriol" with not having patience for nonsense that pours from the keyboards of some...

21Dear children, keep yourselves from idols.

[SDG]

Have a good night Jekyll ... Happy posting.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Really, are you so arogant to think that I come here a couple of times a week just to read your nonsense?? Not everything is about you, get over yourself...

Although it really tickles me that you could find such an old post and give it another run...

And, do not confuse "vitriol" with not having patience for nonsense that pours from the keyboards of some...

Monkey Face-

At the tip top of the Fellowship Hall is a thread telling how to ignore another member.

Also new is in the Thread Tools at the top of each thread-

Ignore This Thread.

It will never appear on your search lists even with 1000 posts.

It is reversable through the User Control Panel.

No need to try to resort to naming names. Even if it is the shared opinion of more than one.

[SDG]

Monkey Face-

At the tip top of the Fellowship Hall is a thread telling how to ignore another member.

Also new is in the Thread Tools at the top of each thread-

Ignore This Thread.

It will never appear on your search lists even with 1000 posts.

It is reversable through the User Control Panel.

No need to try to resort to naming names. Even if it is the shared opinion of more than one.

But can he resist????

[Jekyll]

Monkey Face-

At the tip top of the Fellowship Hall is a thread telling how to ignore another member.

Also new is in the Thread Tools at the top of each thread-

Ignore This Thread.

It will never appear on your search lists even with 1000 posts.

It is reversable through the User Control Panel.

No need to try to resort to naming names. Even if it is the shared opinion of more than one.
Of course all of this little peeve is just adding to DA's "legacy"...

He made this all about him when he responded to my post which came nowhere near mentioning him...

I am not here to post about him but, here we are again, courtesy to him...

The ignore function completely baffles me unless those who use it are just here for the social stuff...

[Jekyll]

Ergo,

How a thread and eventually a forum goes soft...

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Ergo,

How a thread and eventually a forum goes soft...

And if you have nothing to add, you contribute to the softness.

[Jekyll]

And if you have nothing to add, you contribute to the softness.
Exactly...

Which is why I have been :doh for the last half hour...

When I have nothing good to add, I usually just lurk...:dunno

[tv1a]

It would be nice if the word apostolic wasn't a subjective term. We don't know one-tenth of what happened in the early church. We mostly rely on the Book of Acts, which only highlight a 20-30 year period (?) It is possible there were some intense discussions with the NT church. We know they didn't always dance around the campfire singing Kumbyah My Lord.

What I do know is the apostles put on a "united" front when it came to reaching the world. They majored in majors and minored in minors. I can't think of anyone on this forum that I would not want to help reach the lost.

I was speaking with a friend yesterday telling him about this forum, then I received a PM from another friend lamenting about what this community has become.

I am kind of frustrated at a couple of things.

There seems to be somewhat of a silent exodus from this forum of men and ladies that once carried the water in our other forums.

In PMs and such, there is a consistent line throughout their reasoning that "they have had enough of shallow talk, the piling on, unaccountibility, blasting people instead of issues, etc. In addition, this person told me that he/she feels the deeper thinking posts/threads are ignored. Some have said this forum is getting worse than NFCF or FCF on their worst of days.

I am not sure I agree, but that is the point nevertheless.

We are quick to say "So Long" to these people and it is sad. On the other hand the forum is only as good and has as much quality as people are willing to offer.

I have one question...in the mission statement of this forum it implies that folks here are Apostolic. Given some of what I have seen and read...I am seriously questioning if this is indeed true.

[Rhoni]

From the statistics here: I would compare AFF with the Gladiator sport of Roman times when the bloodletting was a sport and man came to watch and cheer the death of a warrior!




My thread got very little attention when it was doing what it was posted to do, entertain and give advice that might help someone on their way...what it was turned into by others:


Coonskinner, RRFORD, Chan, and the hanger's on...was a place to accuse Rhoni of:
#1. Hiding past sins in her life
#2. Using the forum to promote her ministry
#3. Incite rebellion
#4. To bash preachers [when the only one getting bashed was Rhoni]
#5. To discredit my life, my ministry, my profession
This is what got the most attention...the fact men could intimidate, invalidate, destroy reputation of a woman trying her best to live and love God.


This forum could have intelligent and stimulating conversation but the holiest of us all are such as have posted these awful things. They have disrupted the flow of conversations, riddled threads with their judgments, accusations, and their holier than thou attitudes...and then we have Malvaro getting out the buttered popcorn to watch. Many too afraid to come to my defense and those that did...afraid to post more because they too will get bashed.


If I knew how to post all the different posts and line them up for others to look at...I would...but as it is...go to the Dear Rhoni thread and read it for yourself...if you haven't already.


This is what AFF has come to...and who is the one to blame? The spirit of the devil which many give in to in the name of righteousess...

[SDG]

Rhoni .... it's ok when they do it ... keep plugging away .... you threaten their monopoly on truth ... Thanks for being you.

[Rhoni]

Rhoni .... it's ok when they do it ... keep plugging away .... you threaten their monopoly on truth ... Thanks for being you.

Bro. Dan,

You are so sweet to perceive it that way...but I see it more that I make them see things they don't want to see in themselves. I agree that they, and I as well, are Apostolic...but what it means to behave like a Christan may differ.

:ty

Blessings, Rhoni

[Tina]

From the statistics here: I would compare AFF with the Gladiator sport of Roman times when the bloodletting was a sport and man came to watch and cheer the death of a warrior!




My thread got very little attention when it was doing what it was posted to do, entertain and give advice that might help someone on their way...what it was turned into by others:


Coonskinner, RRFORD, Chan, and the hanger's on...was a place to accuse Rhoni of:
#1. Hiding past sins in her life
#2. Using the forum to promote her ministry
#3. Incite rebellion
#4. To bash preachers [when the only one getting bashed was Rhoni]
#5. To discredit my life, my ministry, my profession
This is what got the most attention...the fact men could intimidate, invalidate, destroy reputation of a woman trying her best to live and love God.


This forum could have intelligent and stimulating conversation but the holiest of us all are such as have posted these awful things. They have disrupted the flow of conversations, riddled threads with their judgments, accusations, and their holier than thou attitudes...and then we have Malvaro getting out the buttered popcorn to watch. Many too afraid to come to my defense and those that did...afraid to post more because they too will get bashed.


If I knew how to post all the different posts and line them up for others to look at...I would...but as it is...go to the Dear Rhoni thread and read it for yourself...if you haven't already.


This is what AFF has come to...and who is the one to blame? The spirit of the devil which many give in to in the name of righteousess...

The way I see it is that the reason your thread is now getting so much attention is because of these posts you keep making over in other areas of the forum drawing people over there to "watch" the action. If what happened in that thread was left in that thread, it wouldn't have near as many views or comments that were taking it off track. JMHO.

[Rhoni]

The way I see it is that the reason your thread is now getting so much attention is because of these posts you keep making over in other areas of the forum drawing people over there to "watch" the action. If what happened in that thread was left in that thread, it wouldn't have NEAR as many views. JMHO.

I disagree seeing the many views happened after RRFord's post on my thread...but if that is the way you see it...I actually was answering the content of this thread as posted by Carpenter, and I do see the personal attacks as common to this same group of people from FCF, NFCF to AFF...

Goodnewscafe.net is a pleasant place of peace and I don't see people being attacked even when they disagree. The place you gave us for a refuge in between NFCF and AFF was also peaceful.

Do what do you feel is the difference?

Blessigns, Rhoni

[StillStanding]

For the record, I was born and raised UPC. It is my heritage and I love it! I no longer attend a UPC church, but that doesn't mean I don't love and respect the organization. In fact, FCF was started by a UPC lisenced minister!

As far as this forum....over the last four or five years, we have exaustively discussed every issue imaginable! When the same issues are brought up again by newbees, some of us choose to refrain from the discussion as we've already been there and done that! :)

You will notice that things can get lively when a NEW issue arises! :bliss

It kinda' like a marriage...things are lively at first, then it settles down more to a routine. :D

[BrotherEastman]

Not everyone in the UPC agrees with the UPC in all areas.
Why did you feel the need to repeat that? Isn't that what I said?

[HeavenlyOne]

The thing that I am seeing that REALLY does bother me about this forum is that when someone DOES start a serious type thread... someone comes in and derails the discussion and takes it off on something else totally off the wall-- and the original poster just gives up on the discussion.

Maybe we as admins need to step up in those threads and tell people to take the "playing" out to another thread. But honestly I don't have time to do that kind of babysitting.

People just need to learn to respect the serious discussions enough to stop doing that to the threads. Otherwise, eventually those who are attempting to carry on some serious discussions are just going to give up and leave. JMO. (And that's my personal opinion... not that of the administrative team)

That's what I've seen as well. It seems that there are way more joke threads than anything.....not that there's anything wrong with that, but it would be nice to have more serious discussion that doesn't denegrate into off the wall talk.

[Carpenter]

I would report this thread but I'll let it stand on its merits .... Jekyll ... am I always on your mind ???

...you will let it stand on its merits? You think you yield that much power that you get to decide which threads continue and which need to be censured?

You thinks too highly of yourself...

[Carpenter]

I disagree seeing the many views happened after RRFord's post on my thread...but if that is the way you see it...I actually was answering the content of this thread as posted by Carpenter, and I do see the personal attacks as common to this same group of people from FCF, NFCF to AFF...

Goodnewscafe.net is a pleasant place of peace and I don't see people being attacked even when they disagree. The place you gave us for a refuge in between NFCF and AFF was also peaceful.

Do what do you feel is the difference?

Blessigns, Rhoni


I wasn't dealt with pleasantly or peacefully on GNC. They acted cowardly in my estimation, even when I apologized, I was ignored.

...I'll leave it at that after deleting a bunch of other stuff I just wrote. :D

[Praxeas]

I was speaking with a friend yesterday telling him about this forum, then I received a PM from another friend lamenting about what this community has become.

I am kind of frustrated at a couple of things.

There seems to be somewhat of a silent exodus from this forum of men and ladies that once carried the water in our other forums.

In PMs and such, there is a consistent line throughout their reasoning that "they have had enough of shallow talk, the piling on, unaccountibility, blasting people instead of issues, etc. In addition, this person told me that he/she feels the deeper thinking posts/threads are ignored. Some have said this forum is getting worse than NFCF or FCF on their worst of days.

I am not sure I agree, but that is the point nevertheless.

We are quick to say "So Long" to these people and it is sad. On the other hand the forum is only as good and has as much quality as people are willing to offer.

I have one question...in the mission statement of this forum it implies that folks here are Apostolic. Given some of what I have seen and read...I am seriously questioning if this is indeed true.

In EVERY forum you have folks that don't get involved in the deeper thinking threads either because they are just not interested or because the "deeper thinkers" often ridicule them for not being a deep enough thinker.

On the other hand, if one does not like the shallow talk threads etc etc...they are more than welcome to start their own thread on what ever topic they like. Same goes true on other forums.

And that this is an Apostolic forum does NOT mean we start banning and preventing non-apostolics either. They have an opinion and you Apostolics are welcome and encouraged to refute their opinion or give your own etc etc.

This is an Apostolic board in that the doctrinal position of the board in general is Apostolic. Those non-Apostolics do not represent the board

[Carpenter]

In EVERY forum you have folks that don't get involved in the deeper thinking threads either because they are just not interested or because the "deeper thinkers" often ridicule them for not being a deep enough thinker.

On the other hand, if one does not like the shallow talk threads etc etc...they are more than welcome to start their own thread on what ever topic they like. Same goes true on other forums.

And that this is an Apostolic forum does NOT mean we start banning and preventing non-apostolics either. They have an opinion and you Apostolics are welcome and encouraged to refute their opinion or give your own etc etc.

This is an Apostolic board in that the doctrinal position of the board in general is Apostolic. Those non-Apostolics do not represent the board

I totally agree with you. It is a difficult thing, I will jump first in the scrum against someone pounding an individual ministry or person, however, I am just as wary of someone PROMOTING an individual ministry as well, especially if they are kook fringe word-faithers, no heaven no hell types, etc. This is also difficult to reconcile, because there is a distinct difference in someone talking about and promoting the TBNers, Steve Munceys and the T.W. Barnes'.

Certainly we cannot censure all personal ministry discussions in order to maintain/establish integrity? Maybe that will only cause things to get unbelievably boring around here.

[Praxeas]

I totally agree with you. It is a difficult thing, I will jump first in the scrum against someone pounding an individual ministry or person, however, I am just as wary of someone PROMOTING an individual ministry as well, especially if they are kook fringe word-faithers, no heaven no hell types, etc. This is also difficult to reconcile, because there is a distinct difference in someone talking about and promoting the TBNers, Steve Munceys and the T.W. Barnes'.

Certainly we cannot censure all personal ministry discussions in order to maintain/establish integrity? Maybe that will only cause things to get unbelievably boring around here.
If you feel someone is promoting a false doctrine and or ministry use the post reporting tool. If the admins see it the same way the thread might likely be locked. If it's just a discussion though on the topic, and not an actual promotion, then it might probably remain open

[Carpenter]

If you feel someone is promoting a false doctrine and or ministry use the post reporting tool. If the admins see it the same way the thread might likely be locked. If it's just a discussion though on the topic, and not an actual promotion, then it might probably remain open

Are you kidding me? One man's false doctrine is another's opiate of the masses. :killinme

[Praxeas]

Are you kidding me? One man's false doctrine is another's opiate of the masses. :killinme
lol.

[RevDWW]

It's not Apostolic in the sense of the First Century. Their Forums tended to involve wild animals and blood shed, and unlike here, it was literal..........:killinme :killinme :killinme

[berkeley]

It's not Apostolic in the sense of the First Century. Their Forums tended to involve wild animals and blood shed, and unlike here, it was literal..........:killinme :killinme :killinme
...and that is funny? First century Christians being torn to pieces by wild animals, and you laugh!??

[RevDWW]

...and that is funny? First century Christians being torn to pieces by wild animals, and you laugh!??

I laugh, but not at them, but those that take this or any other forum way to seriously.

[berkeley]

I laugh, but not at them, but those that take this or any other forum way to seriously.
I had to re-read. :beatdeadhorse

[RevDWW]

I had to re-read. :beatdeadhorse

I ahave to do that a lot myself. Generally the first time I read, I see what I want, and after a few re-reads sometimes I can see what the writer is trying to say.


By the way, what are you holding in your avatar, a 9mm or .40 cal?

[berkeley]

I ahave to do that a lot myself. Generally the first time I read, I see what I want, and after a few re-reads sometimes I can see what the writer is trying to say.


By the way, what are you holding in your avatar, a 9mm or .40 cal?lol. That's not me, man. I'm not white... so I can't answer the question. lol It was a random google image.

[RevDWW]

lol. That's not me, man. I'm not white... so I can't answer the question. lol It was a random google image.

É você portuguese?

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

É você portuguese?

I think Berk is a Latin American (what is the PC description now?)

[Eliseus]

I was speaking with a friend yesterday telling him about this forum, then I received a PM from another friend lamenting about what this community has become.

I am kind of frustrated at a couple of things.

There seems to be somewhat of a silent exodus from this forum of men and ladies that once carried the water in our other forums.

In PMs and such, there is a consistent line throughout their reasoning that "they have had enough of shallow talk, the piling on, unaccountibility, blasting people instead of issues, etc. In addition, this person told me that he/she feels the deeper thinking posts/threads are ignored. Some have said this forum is getting worse than NFCF or FCF on their worst of days.

I am not sure I agree, but that is the point nevertheless.

We are quick to say "So Long" to these people and it is sad. On the other hand the forum is only as good and has as much quality as people are willing to offer.

I have one question...in the mission statement of this forum it implies that folks here are Apostolic. Given some of what I have seen and read...I am seriously questioning if this is indeed true.

I have been on numerous forums, of many different persuasions, and I can honestly say that I have only seen the nFCF syndrome on FCF (towards its end), nFCF, and apparently here on AFF as well.

Nowhere else.

Which inclines me to notice two things...

1. The problem is one of massive insecurity about the forum's identity. If the forum were a single individual, it would be characterized as being in the midst of a massive identity crisis.

2. The problem is not about "the forum", but is a reflection of the issues of the people on the forum. A forum is nothing else but a collection of people who interact.

As a result, look at the interaction... the FCF/nFCF/AFF crowd seems to ALWAYS have this interpersonal issue going on...

And the question seems to be always... "what exactly is our purpose, who are we, what are we, where are we going with this thing... and why are you looking at me! I'm telling!!!"

So I see this forum as suffering from low self esteem, an identity crisis, and a juvenile need to make petty attacks on one another...

Which of course is simply a reflection of the membership, as a forum is nothing but the members who comprise it...

So in other words, there are a lot of people with major issues who get together... and voila, this is the result...

:heeheehee

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

As a result, look at the interaction... the FCF/nFCF/AFF crowd seems to ALWAYS have this interpersonal issue going on...

And the question seems to be always... "what exactly is our purpose, who are we, what are we, where are we going with this thing... and why are you looking at me! I'm telling!!!"

So I see this forum as suffering from low self esteem, an identity crisis, and a juvenile need to make petty attacks on one another...

Which of course is simply a reflection of the membership, as a forum is nothing but the members who comprise it...

So in other words, there are a lot of people with major issues who get together... and voila, this is the result...

:heeheehee

The "All About Me" Syndrome prevails.

How would YOU solve it?

[Eliseus]

The "All About Me" Syndrome prevails.

How would YOU solve it?

I cannot solve someone else's problems.

Otherwise, the world would be a very different place.

:)

[rgcraig]

Or maybe so many are use to fitting everything inside a square box and can't deal with the fact that the box has an outside to it and everything might not have to fit neatly into the box.

[Carpenter]

Of course the forum is only as good as its parts but I think it has become a little more pedestrian. That means that folks are bouncing here and there, not spending or taking the time to assemble an intelligent thought.

I am not saying it is good or bad, I do it. But I do lament at times that I did not put a little more effort reading or writing my opinion. Instead I have reduced important issues down to soundbites and clever little phrases.

If you can't have an identity at least you can be a character. :D

[SoCaliUPC]

From the statistics here: I would compare AFF with the Gladiator sport of Roman times when the bloodletting was a sport and man came to watch and cheer the death of a warrior!




My thread got very little attention when it was doing what it was posted to do, entertain and give advice that might help someone on their way...what it was turned into by others:


Coonskinner, RRFORD, Chan, and the hanger's on...was a place to accuse Rhoni of:
#1. Hiding past sins in her life
#2. Using the forum to promote her ministry
#3. Incite rebellion
#4. To bash preachers [when the only one getting bashed was Rhoni]
#5. To discredit my life, my ministry, my profession
This is what got the most attention...the fact men could intimidate, invalidate, destroy reputation of a woman trying her best to live and love God.


This forum could have intelligent and stimulating conversation but the holiest of us all are such as have posted these awful things. They have disrupted the flow of conversations, riddled threads with their judgments, accusations, and their holier than thou attitudes...and then we have Malvaro getting out the buttered popcorn to watch. Many too afraid to come to my defense and those that did...afraid to post more because they too will get bashed.


If I knew how to post all the different posts and line them up for others to look at...I would...but as it is...go to the Dear Rhoni thread and read it for yourself...if you haven't already.


This is what AFF has come to...and who is the one to blame? The spirit of the devil which many give in to in the name of righteousess...

Sorry you had to go through that Rhoni. People said that type of behavior was not going to happen here. Oh well...

[berkeley]

I think Berk is a Latin American (what is the PC description now?)I would beat you like a dead horse!! :beatdeadhorse

My fathers family came to CA from Mexico. (that is something that I rarely share) Moms family [both sides] has deep roots in Texas. And before settling Texas, a generation or 2 resided in Mexico.
Now, one of moms parents has roots from Spain and Germany. (what a weird combo)
The other has roots from Spain and France.
We suspect there is also a Portugal influence. :dunno Problem with that is, our history is handed down orally, like the stiff necked Jews. One of my aunts is researching our history. I hope she completes it before she passes.

And me, well, I'm a white guy in a Hispanic guys body. I have noticed with age, I have embraced more of my 'culture.'

[SoCaliUPC]

Or maybe so many are use to fitting everything inside a square box and can't deal with the fact that the box has an outside to it and everything might not have to fit neatly into the box.


Well, that's a way to put it! :killinme

[berkeley]

Sorry you had to go through that Rhoni. People said that type of behavior was not going to happen here. Oh well...Wow, I should have read her thread.... Where's the "ugly" stick?

[Chan]

My thread got very little attention when it was doing what it was posted to do, entertain and give advice that might help someone on their way"Advice" that comes from a worldly philosophy.

...what it was turned into by others:What you claim it was turned into.


Coonskinner, RRFORD, Chan, and the hanger's on...was a place to accuse Rhoni of:
#1. Hiding past sins in her life
#2. Using the forum to promote her ministry
#3. Incite rebellion
#4. To bash preachers [when the only one getting bashed was Rhoni]
#5. To discredit my life, my ministry, my professionIf you're going to hang your shingle out there and presume to speak into people's lives based on some worldly philosophy (psychology) you're trying to force on the Church, you should expect others to turn the mirror in your direction.

#1 I don't know what past sins some others may have been referring to but if you have repented of those sins, they have been forgiven and God has chosen to remember them no more. But ask yourself how often you have brought up a person's past and tried to use it against him or her (I'm not saying you have or haven't, I'm just suggesting that you do some self-examination in this area).
#2 As for using the forum to "promote" your "ministry," being a practitioner of psychology is not "ministry."
#3 Since being a practitioner of a worldly philosophy and trying to bring that philosophy into the Church is rebellion against God, and since you are trying to get others to embrace it, you are inciting rebellion.
#4 I don't know whether you've done it in your Dear Rhoni thread or elsewhere on AFF but I know that in the past you've specifically said that pastors who don't have training in that worldly philosophy of which you're a practitioner (psychology) then they're not "qualified" to counsel others. I would consider that pastor-bashing.
#5 You really do need to learn how to separate criticisms of your "ministry" (which you don't have because being a practitioner of a wordly philosophy is not ministry) and your "profession" (your worldly philosophy is not entitled to be called a "profession" since it is nothing more than pseudoscience and false religion) from you as a person (I haven't seen much here that would really be criticisms of you as a person). You are not your "ministry" and you are not your "profession."

This is what got the most attention...the fact men could intimidate, invalidate, destroy reputation of a woman trying her best to live and love God.I'm not sure how a reputation can be intimidated. No one here is trying to invalidate or destroy your reputation but if you base your reputation on being a practitioner of a worldly philosophy, you might want to take a closer look at your life and see if maybe there might be better things on which to build a reputation). Some of us are, however, trying to help you see the eternal danger you are in as you continue to be a practitioner of a worldly philosophy (psychology) and as you continue to try to bring that philosophy into the Church.

This forum could have intelligent and stimulating conversation but the holiest of us all are such as have posted these awful things. They have disrupted the flow of conversations, riddled threads with their judgments, accusations, and their holier than thou attitudes...and then we have Malvaro getting out the buttered popcorn to watch. Many too afraid to come to my defense and those that did...afraid to post more because they too will get bashed.There is nothing "intelligent" (from a Biblical perspective) in any worldly philosophy. There is no valid defense for your worldly philosophy, your choice to continue as a practitioner of that philosophy, or your continued attempts to try to force that philosophy on the Church. This has nothing to do with you as an individual and I don't think anyone here has said anything against you as a person (I know I haven't): can you really say that you have not maligned the character of specific individuals?

This is what AFF has come to...and who is the one to blame? The spirit of the devil which many give in to in the name of righteousess...Is it really the spirit of the devil? One might argue that the worldly philosophy of which you are a practitioner and that you're trying to force on the Church is itself from the devil.

[Carpenter]

#4 I don't know whether you've done it in your Dear Rhoni thread or elsewhere on AFF but I know that in the past you've specifically said that pastors who don't have training in that worldly philosophy of which you're a practitioner (psychology) then they're not "qualified" to counsel others. I would consider that pastor-bashing

um...this isn't even close to pastor bashing. Not even close.

[Chan]

um...this isn't even close to pastor bashing. Not even close.Well, I guess that's a matter of opinion. I would consider it pastor-bashing when someone who is a practitioner of a worldly philosophy comes a long and insists that a pastor is not qualified to provide counsel to the saints under his care unless he is trained in her worldly philosophy. To say that anyone called by God to equip the saints (as pastors are called to do) is not qualified to do so if he is not trained in a certain wicked worldly philosophy is an attack no only on pastors but on God who does the work within the individual to make him "qualified" to serve as a pastor. It's saying that God's qualifications aren't enough, that we must add worldly philosophies to "complete" a pastor's qualifications.

[OneAccord]

No, this is NOT an Apostolic Forum. But most of its members are Apostolic!

[Steve Epley]

No, this is NOT an Apostolic Forum. But most of its members are Apostolic!

True.

[Praxeas]

lol. That's not me, man. I'm not white... so I can't answer the question. lol It was a random google image.
You know...I always can tell the color of someone by how they post and I knew you wasn't white...I figured you for a greenie or a bluey, but not a whitey

[RevDWW]

Can it be Apostolic when the Apostles didn't have computers?

[rrford]

From the statistics here: I would compare AFF with the Gladiator sport of Roman times when the bloodletting was a sport and man came to watch and cheer the death of a warrior!




My thread got very little attention when it was doing what it was posted to do, entertain and give advice that might help someone on their way...what it was turned into by others:


Coonskinner, RRFORD, Chan, and the hanger's on...was a place to accuse Rhoni of:
#1. Hiding past sins in her life
#2. Using the forum to promote her ministry
#3. Incite rebellion
#4. To bash preachers [when the only one getting bashed was Rhoni]
#5. To discredit my life, my ministry, my profession
This is what got the most attention...the fact men could intimidate, invalidate, destroy reputation of a woman trying her best to live and love God.


This forum could have intelligent and stimulating conversation but the holiest of us all are such as have posted these awful things. They have disrupted the flow of conversations, riddled threads with their judgments, accusations, and their holier than thou attitudes...and then we have Malvaro getting out the buttered popcorn to watch. Many too afraid to come to my defense and those that did...afraid to post more because they too will get bashed.


If I knew how to post all the different posts and line them up for others to look at...I would...but as it is...go to the Dear Rhoni thread and read it for yourself...if you haven't already.


This is what AFF has come to...and who is the one to blame? The spirit of the devil which many give in to in the name of righteousess...


Rhoni,

For as educated as you are it amazes me to read this response. I'll leave it at that.

[rrford]

Sorry you had to go through that Rhoni. People said that type of behavior was not going to happen here. Oh well...

Apologize to her if you will. Thus far I have received zero contact from Admin stating my original post was out of line in any way. Someties people "go through" what they set themselves up to go through.


Care to express your dismay to those of us accussed of being used of the devil by Rhoni? Are you sorry we had to go through that and were you told those types of things wouldn't happen here either? Oh well...


Folks, it's only a Forum. It is not Holy Writ nor instruction for life.

[SDG]

Rhoni,

For as educated as you are it amazes me to read this response. I'll leave it at that.

I'm amazed how some can't let go of this ....

[rrford]

I'm amazed how some can't let go of this ....


You and me both. (Now, if you are actually referring to me, this has been my only response to her post and this has been the first chance I have had to respond.)

[berkeley]

You know...I always can tell the color of someone by how they post and I knew you wasn't white...I figured you for a greenie or a bluey, but not a whitey
whatevah! what did you really think I was?

[Praxeas]

whatevah! what did you really think I was?
green...serious. I thought you wuz an alien .....:nod

[berkeley]

green...serious. I thought you wuz an alien .....:nod
ah.. code talk for "illegal"... that is sooo wrong!! :beatdeadhorse

[Jekyll]

green...serious. I thought you wuz an alien .....:nod
oooh...nice...:killinme

[berkeley]

oooh...nice...:killinmeRather an alien than a monkey!!

[Jekyll]

Rather an alien than a monkey!!

Yeah, Cosell found that out...:killinme :killinme :killinme

[berkeley]

Yeah, Cosell found that out...:killinme :killinme :killinme
Consortium of South Eastern Law Libraries?

[Praxeas]

ah.. code talk for "illegal"... that is sooo wrong!! :beatdeadhorse
All Martians are here illegally!

[Rhoni]

Rhoni,

For as educated as you are it amazes me to read this response. I'll leave it at that.

Is that the best you can do? Trying to intimidate again...get over yourself!

Blessings, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

Apologize to her if you will. Thus far I have received zero contact from Admin stating my original post was out of line in any way. Someties people "go through" what they set themselves up to go through.


Care to express your dismay to those of us accussed of being used of the devil by Rhoni? Are you sorry we had to go through that and were you told those types of things wouldn't happen here either? Oh well...


Folks, it's only a Forum. It is not Holy Writ nor instruction for life.

Aren't you a man of God? You need admin to tell you when you've sinned, offended, or posted inappropriately? I told you I was offended so what does that tell you that you need to do? Lets go to scripture, shall we? I know that is a novel concept to you.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Brother Price]

I was speaking with a friend yesterday telling him about this forum, then I received a PM from another friend lamenting about what this community has become.

I am kind of frustrated at a couple of things.

There seems to be somewhat of a silent exodus from this forum of men and ladies that once carried the water in our other forums.

In PMs and such, there is a consistent line throughout their reasoning that "they have had enough of shallow talk, the piling on, unaccountibility, blasting people instead of issues, etc. In addition, this person told me that he/she feels the deeper thinking posts/threads are ignored. Some have said this forum is getting worse than NFCF or FCF on their worst of days.

I am not sure I agree, but that is the point nevertheless.

We are quick to say "So Long" to these people and it is sad. On the other hand the forum is only as good and has as much quality as people are willing to offer.

I have one question...in the mission statement of this forum it implies that folks here are Apostolic. Given some of what I have seen and read...I am seriously questioning if this is indeed true.

It has been a while since I posted on here last, but this thread asks a very good question. Is this forum Apostolic? Apostolic means holding to the teachings and practices of the Apostles, as they received from Jesus Christ. This is Oneness in the Godhead, Acts 2:38 salvation, and holiness. With this in mind, with the discussions I have read here, I have to say no. This forum is not Apostolic.

When a soul denies the need for baptism, that person is no longer Apostolic. When someone says that trinity baptism is acceptable, that person is no longer Apostolic. When a forum allows such, and even attacks against those doctrines which are held by the Apostolic Church, that forum is not Apostolic.

Just my 2¢ worth. You may now fire at will.

[Rhoni]

It has been a while since I posted on here last, but this thread asks a very good question. Is this forum Apostolic? Apostolic means holding to the teachings and practices of the Apostles, as they received from Jesus Christ. This is Oneness in the Godhead, Acts 2:38 salvation, and holiness. With this in mind, with the discussions I have read here, I have to say no. This forum is not Apostolic.

When a soul denies the need for baptism, that person is no longer Apostolic. When someone says that trinity baptism is acceptable, that person is no longer Apostolic. When a forum allows such, and even attacks against those doctrines which are held by the Apostolic Church, that forum is not Apostolic.

Just my 2¢ worth. You may now fire at will.

Actually, I agree with you!:highfive

Blessings, Rhoni

[Coonskinner]

Sorry you had to go through that Rhoni. People said that type of behavior was not going to happen here. Oh well...

SoCali, if this were old FCF, I would say to you, "Put a sock in it."

If this were NFCF, I might just post the El Toro.

However, here we are on AFF...so i will not do either of those things. At least not yet. :)

I think your sympathy is a little misplaced.

WHile you are commiserating, try reading a little closer and seeing through this massive appeal for high drama and attention.

rrford and me, along with some others, are labeled here as being used by the devil to wreak all kinds of havoc on a poor woman struggling to love Jesus and make a difference in her world. That is pure, unadulterated hogwash and you know it.

Don't bother passing any tissues my way, as I am not in the least disturbed by her accusations.

With all due respect, such judgments don't mean a half a teaspoon of lukewarm calf slobbers to me.

[Carpenter]

SoCali, if this were old FCF, I would say to you, "Put a sock in it."

If this were NFCF, I might just post the El Toro.

However, here we are on AFF...so i will not do either of those things. At least not yet. :)

I think your sympathy is a little misplaced.

WHile you are commiserating, try reading a little closer and seeing through this massive appeal for high drama and attention.

rrford and me, along with some others, are labeled here as being used by the devil to wreak all kinds of havoc on a poor woman struggling to love Jesus and make a difference in her world. That is pure, unadulterated hogwash and you know it.

Don't bother passing any tissues my way, as I am not in the least disturbed by her accusations.

With all due respect, such judgments don't mean a half a teaspoon of lukewarm calf slobbers to me.

NOW THAT'S WHAT I HAVE BEEN WAITING TO HEAR!!!!!

:killinme :killinme


...the context notwithstanding of course.

[Carpenter]

It has been a while since I posted on here last, but this thread asks a very good question. Is this forum Apostolic? Apostolic means holding to the teachings and practices of the Apostles, as they received from Jesus Christ. This is Oneness in the Godhead, Acts 2:38 salvation, and holiness. With this in mind, with the discussions I have read here, I have to say no. This forum is not Apostolic.

When a soul denies the need for baptism, that person is no longer Apostolic. When someone says that trinity baptism is acceptable, that person is no longer Apostolic. When a forum allows such, and even attacks against those doctrines which are held by the Apostolic Church, that forum is not Apostolic.

Just my 2¢ worth. You may now fire at will.

I have to say this is the very first time I have actually heard someone use the term "Trinity baptism." Would this be the Matt 28:19 baptism, and by admitting such are you saying that Jesus advocated a "Trinity baptism" and therefore that the Trinity is mentioned in the bible??



...fyi...been reading lawyer books. :D

[SDG]

SoCali, if this were old FCF, I would say to you, "Put a sock in it."

If this were NFCF, I might just post the El Toro.

However, here we are on AFF...so i will not do either of those things. At least not yet. :)

I think your sympathy is a little misplaced.

WHile you are commiserating, try reading a little closer and seeing through this massive appeal for high drama and attention.

rrford and me, along with some others, are labeled here as being used by the devil to wreak all kinds of havoc on a poor woman struggling to love Jesus and make a difference in her world. That is pure, unadulterated hogwash and you know it.

Don't bother passing any tissues my way, as I am not in the least disturbed by her accusations.

With all due respect, such judgments don't mean a half a teaspoon of lukewarm calf slobbers to me.

If such judgments meant nothing to you ... you would feel no need to editorialize ...

[Praxeas]

It has been a while since I posted on here last, but this thread asks a very good question. Is this forum Apostolic? Apostolic means holding to the teachings and practices of the Apostles, as they received from Jesus Christ. This is Oneness in the Godhead, Acts 2:38 salvation, and holiness. With this in mind, with the discussions I have read here, I have to say no. This forum is not Apostolic.

When a soul denies the need for baptism, that person is no longer Apostolic. When someone says that trinity baptism is acceptable, that person is no longer Apostolic. When a forum allows such, and even attacks against those doctrines which are held by the Apostolic Church, that forum is not Apostolic.

Just my 2¢ worth. You may now fire at will.

Hmnmmm...so if I go to a Trinitarian board and deny Trinitarian baptism that board is no longer Trinitarian?:laffatu

Where do you guys learn how to think critically? If we banned everyone with a different opinion this board would be empty. How do we convince them of what we believe if we don't even allow them an opinion? Good grief.

yes this IS an Apostolic board and it is hoped and expected that real apostolics can defend their beliefs rather than whine about the board not being Apostolic because we allow folks with other opinions to state them.

Sadly this has been par for the course for many so called Apostolics who don't know how to defend their faith outside of censorship.

[SDG]

Hmnmmm...so if I go to a Trinitarian board and deny Trinitarian baptism that board is no longer Trinitarian?:laffatu

Where do you guys learn how to think critically? If we banned everyone with a different opinion this board would be empty. How do we convince them of what we believe if we don't even allow them an opinion? Good grief.

yes this IS an Apostolic board and it is hoped and expected that real apostolics can defend their beliefs rather than whine about the board not being Apostolic because we allow folks with other opinions to state them.

Sadly this has been par for the course for many so called Apostolics who don't know how to defend their faith outside of censorship.

Change that channel, honey ... This can't be A ONE GOD forum ...

[Praxeas]

SoCali, if this were old FCF, I would say to you, "Put a sock in it."

If this were NFCF, I might just post the El Toro.

However, here we are on AFF...so i will not do either of those things. At least not yet. :)

I think your sympathy is a little misplaced.

WHile you are commiserating, try reading a little closer and seeing through this massive appeal for high drama and attention.

rrford and me, along with some others, are labeled here as being used by the devil to wreak all kinds of havoc on a poor woman struggling to love Jesus and make a difference in her world. That is pure, unadulterated hogwash and you know it.

Don't bother passing any tissues my way, as I am not in the least disturbed by her accusations.

With all due respect, such judgments don't mean a half a teaspoon of lukewarm calf slobbers to me.
Hmmmm...are there any health benefits to this calf slobber? :heeheehee

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Change that channel, honey ... This can't be A ONE GOD forum ...

You are the Oneness Expert.....

And Sanguine/Melancholy. :heeheehee

[Praxeas]

You are the Oneness Expert.....

And Sanguine/Melancholy. :heeheehee
Hey, Dan is just a regular guy...
http://www.old-time.com/commercials/1930%27s/Ex%20Lax.jpg

[J-Roc]

If such judgments meant nothing to you ... you would feel no need to editorialize ...


I can see you own this guy and have him on lockdown...you own the key to his lock.


http://www.rainforestproductions.com/wow/images/poster_lockdown.jpg

[Annie]

I can see you own this guy and have him on lockdown...you own the key to his lock.


http://www.rainforestproductions.com/wow/images/poster_lockdown.jpg




??????
Translation for a simpleton, please???

[rrford]

Is that the best you can do? Trying to intimidate again...get over yourself!

Blessings, Rhoni

I have never attempted to intimidate you. But in your self-deluded mindset that everyone is against you and that you are greatly misunderstood and attacked I can understand why you would think it is intimidation.

[rrford]

Aren't you a man of God? You need admin to tell you when you've sinned, offended, or posted inappropriately? I told you I was offended so what does that tell you that you need to do? Lets go to scripture, shall we? I know that is a novel concept to you.

Blessings, Rhoni

Let me re-phrase then. At not no time has God let me know that what i have posted to you was sinful, offensive or inappropriate.

Trust me Rhoni. If we go to scriputre it won't be pretty and you won't like the end results. Thus far I have attempted to post in a non-personal way yet you refuse to allow that to be the case. If you really want to make this "personal" about my being a "man of God" and wanting to go to scripture, we can do that. But be fair warned that some men of God hear from God and when they support their hearings with scripture it isn't always well received.

[rrford]

SoCali, if this were old FCF, I would say to you, "Put a sock in it."

If this were NFCF, I might just post the El Toro.

However, here we are on AFF...so i will not do either of those things. At least not yet. :)

I think your sympathy is a little misplaced.

WHile you are commiserating, try reading a little closer and seeing through this massive appeal for high drama and attention.

rrford and me, along with some others, are labeled here as being used by the devil to wreak all kinds of havoc on a poor woman struggling to love Jesus and make a difference in her world. That is pure, unadulterated hogwash and you know it.

Don't bother passing any tissues my way, as I am not in the least disturbed by her accusations.

With all due respect, such judgments don't mean a half a teaspoon of lukewarm calf slobbers to me.


My, what an excellent post. I sincerely hope some understand the meaning thereof.

[SDG]

Let me re-phrase then. At not no time has God let me know that what i have posted to you was sinful, offensive or inappropriate.

Trust me Rhoni. If we go to scriputre it won't be pretty and you won't like the end results. Thus far I have attempted to post in a non-personal way yet you refuse to allow that to be the case. If you really want to make this "personal" about my being a "man of God" and wanting to go to scripture, we can do that. But be fair warned that some men of God hear from God and when they support their hearings with scripture it isn't always well received.

Now we are threatening w/ the Word ?... c'mon RR.

[rrford]

Now we are threatening w/ the Word ?... c'mon RR.

Thanks for misunderstanding again. At least you are consistent.

[SDG]

No I think your post speaks for itself once again ...

If you really want to make this "personal" about my being a "man of God" and wanting to go to scripture, we can do that. But be fair warned that some men of God hear from God and when they support their hearings with scripture it isn't always well received.

What makes you think that some men of God hear from God ... we are all priests ... if we have His Word ... we all have access ... UGHHHH!!!!!

This monopoly mindset sets you apart indeed.

[Neck]

No I think your post speaks for itself once again ...



What makes you think that some men of God hear from God ... we are all priests ... if we have His Word ... we all have access ... UGHHHH!!!!!

This monopoly mindset sets you apart indeed.

I agree...

[rrford]

You guys have serious comprehension issues. Nowhere have i ever said I have a "monopoly."

What I can tell you is this dear Daniel The very thing you have accused me of you perfome in spades. I do not expect you to see nor admit such. But it is evident to me. Be blessed as I have no desire to respond to any posts of yours in the future.

[seguidordejesus]

Dan, do you have a website?

[Felicity]

*ahem*

I would pay attention to CS and RR. They aren't novices, they don't hate anybody and they know of what they speak. These two men both love people and care about them.

I think it's time to give them the benefit of the doubt and get off their case because they are being misrepresented.

[SDG]

You guys have serious comprehension issues. Nowhere have i ever said I have a "monopoly."

What I can tell you is this dear Daniel The very thing you have accused me of you perfome in spades. I do not expect you to see nor admit such. But it is evident to me. Be blessed as I have no desire to respond to any posts of yours in the future.

Now I have two options ... here ... I can kick you while your down ... like you've done to Rhoni ... or bid you adieu ... I will go with the latter .... Go and sin no more.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

This monopoly mindset sets you apart indeed.


Daniel, if you use the quotes that are in reply, they have a feature that is quoteback. It helps the rest of us to try to find out what post 13 pages back someone is trying to refer to.

[rrford]

*ahem*

I would pay attention to CS and RR. They aren't novices, they don't hate anybody and they know of what they speak. These two men both love people and care about them.

I think it's time to give them the benefit of the doubt and get off their case because they are being misrepresented.

Ah, but this "new breed" of poster around here is far superior to CS and I. We have a "monopoly" but they seem to have all of the right answers for everyone. Go figure...

[Felicity]

Now I have you options ... here ... I can kick you while your down ... like you've done to Rhoni ... or bid you adieu ... I will go with the latter .... Go and sin no more.Dan.....

I feel badly you are taking this tack here. :thumbsdown

[SDG]

Ah, but this "new breed" of poster around here is far superior to CS and I. We have a "monopoly" but they seem to have all of the right answers for everyone. Go figure...

Appeal to authority ??? RR???... I respect and value Felicity's opinions greatly ... but the question begs to be answered WHY DON'T YOU JUST LEAVE HER ALONE ....?????

[rrford]

*ahem*

I would pay attention to CS and RR. They aren't novices, they don't hate anybody and they know of what they speak. These two men both love people and care about them.

I think it's time to give them the benefit of the doubt and get off their case because they are being misrepresented.

Further, when a poster is allowed to state that I called them a liar at least 3 times when I did no such thing, and then for poeple to agree with her, is beyond my comprehension.

If Rhoni does not have the ability to read a post and see that questions are not accusations then there is nothing more i can do to explain it to her.

Further, I seriously, seriously doubt there is one thread I have ever started that I had the majority of posts on.

From reading some of the responses on this thread, her thread, and a couple of others it is evident some folks have a problem keeping their eye on the ball.

Just on instance: Some have said that Rhoni's thread was started seriously to help folk. Rhoni, at one point, said it was entertainement. Which is it? So far it is whatever is appropriate to respond to CS and I.

[SDG]

Further, when a poster is allowed to stae that I calle dthem a liar at least 3 times when I did no such thing, and then for poeple to agree with ehr, is beyond my comprehension.

If Rhoni does not have the ability to read a post and see that questions are not accusations then there is nothing more i can do to explain it to her.

Further, I seriously, seriously doubt there is one thread I have ever started that I had the majority of posts on.

From reading some of the responses on this thread, her thread, and a couple of others it is evident some folks have a problem keeping their eye on the ball.

Just on instance: Some have said that Rhoni's thread was started seriously to help folk. Rhoni, at one point, said it was entertainement. Which is it? So far it is whatever is appropriate to respond to CS and I.

The thread was set up as a individual blog ... in the blog section ... She gives advice to those that have sought her advice ... but some would love to interfere and give advice on her advice ... if you want to go into the cyber -counseling business start your own .... rather than hi-jacking a thread that is was designed for q and a.

[rrford]

The thread was set up as a individual blog ... in the blog section ... She gives advice to those that have sought her advice ... but some would love to interfere and give advice on her advice ... if you want to go into the cyber -counseling business start your own .... rather than hi-jacking a thread that is was designed for q and a.

By the same respect then, why go to her thread and take issue with me? :killinme

[SDG]

By the same respect then, why go to her thread and take issue with me? :killinme

Oh ... you rather would ridicule with impunity ... and not be questioned. RR .. leave her alone ... it makes no sense to prolong this ... you made your point ... leave it alone.

[rrford]

The thread was set up as a individual blog ... in the blog section ... She gives advice to those that have sought her advice ... but some would love to interfere and give advice on her advice ... if you want to go into the cyber -counseling business start your own .... rather than hi-jacking a thread that is was designed for q and a.

Daniel,

In all honesty, and quite sincerely, Felicity said alot when she spoke of "history." You do not have the luxury of understanding the history of the previous Forum's. I regret that but cannot change it.

Unfortunately, what you cannot seem to grasp is that I have no personal animosity against Rhoni, nor does CS. We do have great problems with what and how she espouses what she does. In fact, I have clearly stated that I support professional, Biblically based counselling. Some seem to keep missing that point.

I see little difference between your responses to posters you disagree with and our disagreement with Rhoni. That is my opinion and probably one you won't share. Just the way I see it.

It is unfortunate that even handedness does not abound. Defenders of one do not always defend when the one they are defending causes the offense. The way of life...

[rrford]

Oh ... you rather would ridicule with impunity ... and not be questioned. RR .. leave her alone ... it makes no sense to prolong this ... you made your point ... leave it alone.

Now see? How is this any different than any of my repsonses to her?

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

No I think your post speaks for itself once again ...



What makes you think that some men of God hear from God ... we are all priests ... if we have His Word ... we all have access ... UGHHHH!!!!!

This monopoly mindset sets you apart indeed.

So are you saying you no longer have need of anyone to be answerable to?

[SDG]

History is irrelevant in this matter .... in my opinion .. it's disrespectful to go into her blog and shred it .. period ... if you don't like her methodology ... open a blog to analyze Dear Rhoni ...

[SDG]

So are you saying you no longer have need of anyone to be answerable to?

BOOM ... who said that ...?????

[SDG]

BOOM ... Rhoni is first accountable to her husband if she is married and then her pastor ... RR is not her pastor.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Appeal to authority ??? RR???... I respect and value Felicity's opinions greatly ... but the question begs to be answered WHY DON'T YOU JUST LEAVE HER ALONE ....?????

She is the one who brought this in to the open forum. I question if you are taking her stance simply since it is of the opposite to those who you will not answer questions of, or if you really feel sympathy here.

[rrford]

BOOM ... Rhoni is first accountable to her husband if she is married and then her pastor ... RR is not her pastor.

And she is not accountable to me. Never said she was.

BTW, such a response as you give could also be used anytime someone questions any poster about anything.

[SDG]

She is the one who brought this in to the open forum. I question if you are taking her stance simply since it is of the opposite to those who you will not answer questions of, or if you really feel sympathy here.

BOOM ... It is an open forum ... we can opine ... but for the semblance of some order ....blogs are a different animal ... IMHO ... if a person seeks her advice it seems somewhat counterproductive to have the peanut gallery questioning her every move .... Why not start a blog of their own???

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

.... rather than hi-jacking a thread that is was designed for q and a.

This is rich from the King of Hijackers.

[rrford]

This is rich from the King of Hijackers.

Glad you said it. :killinme (Of course we aren't speaking of a blog.)

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

BOOM ... It is an open forum ... we can opine ... but for the semblance of some order ....blogs are a different animal ... IMHO ... if a person seeks her advice it seems somewhat counterproductive to have the peanut gallery questioning her every move .... Why not start a blog of their own???

You have a short history here and when questioned there were some banter back and forth from some who disagreed with her. She answered them, but on another thread. You do not answer a single question but dance around.

[SDG]

You have a short history here and when questioned there were some banter back and forth from some who disagreed with her. She answered them, but on another thread. You do not answer a single question but dance around.

I don't see a question here BOOM ... I've asked quite a few tonight and they are not answered either ....

[SDG]

This is rich from the King of Hijackers.

if you can't differentiate between open forum threads and a q and a blog then revel in the humor .....

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

if you can't differentiate between open forum threads and a q and a blog then revel in the humor .....

The questions were offered from others. This is mainly a self moderated board.

Who gave you the badge to talk down to ME?

[SDG]

The questions were offered from others. This is mainly a self moderated board.

Who gave you the badge to talk down to ME?

BOOM ... no one is speaking down to you ... I am responding to your obvious delight in calling me the KING OF HI-JACKING .... however not addressing the issue of blogs vs. open threads .....

if you can't accept my opinions then say so ... but let's not go there ...

I have never backed down from a question in my life ... I've answered RR's questions tonight ... some may not be to your or his liking ... but that's the beauty of opinions .... He has left some of mine unanswered ... scroll back and take a look ....

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

BOOM ... no one is speaking down to you ... if you can't accept my opinions then say so ... but let's not go there ...

I have never backed down from a question in my life ... I've answered RR's questions tonight ... some may not be to your or his liking ... but that's the beauty of opinions .... He has left some of mine unanswered ... scroll back and take a look ....

I did not ask your opinions.

Yes, you did talk down to me.

I don't find any humor in it.

Let me give you some cheap advice, let the correction of others be taken care of by the Admin Team.
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/faq.php?faq=vb_faq#faq_rules_of_conduct

And let Rhoni defend herself. Don't continue this fight with rrford and CS, let the Admin Team handle it. We closed one thread already today to let this die off.

[SDG]

I did not ask your opinions.

Yes, you did talk down to me.

I don't find any humor in it.

Let me give you some cheap advice, let the correction of others be taken care of by the Admin Team.
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/faq.php?faq=vb_faq#faq_rules_of_conduct

And let Rhoni defend herself. Don't continue this fight with rrford and CS, let the Admin Team handle it. We closed one thread already today to let this die off.

I will accept your correction BOOM ...

[HeavenlyOne]

*ahem*

I would pay attention to CS and RR. They aren't novices, they don't hate anybody and they know of what they speak. These two men both love people and care about them.

I think it's time to give them the benefit of the doubt and get off their case because they are being misrepresented.

I completely agree.

[HeavenlyOne]

The thread was set up as a individual blog ... in the blog section ... She gives advice to those that have sought her advice ... but some would love to interfere and give advice on her advice ... if you want to go into the cyber -counseling business start your own .... rather than hi-jacking a thread that is was designed for q and a.


According to Rhoni herself, that's NOT what this thread was designed for.

It's a joke thread. She isn't seriously counselling anyone on it....that's according to her.

[Carpenter]

According to Rhoni herself, that's NOT what this thread was designed for.

It's a joke thread. She isn't seriously counselling anyone on it....that's according to her.

Coonskinner created a similar type thread, I asked a serious question and his response was...

"I'll think about it." :D


I think this and "I don't remember" are the two best responses to most every question in the world. :slaphappy

[Coonskinner]

Coonskinner created a similar type thread, I asked a serious question and his response was...

"I'll think about it." :D


I think this and "I don't remember" are the two best responses to most every question in the world. :slaphappy

I'll have to go back and look at that, Carp.:)

Pull it back up if you can and I will see what we have.

[rgcraig]

I'll have to go back and look at that, Carp.:)

Pull it back up if you can and I will see what we have.

It's in the Cafe blog area.

[SDG]

According to Rhoni herself, that's NOT what this thread was designed for.

It's a joke thread. She isn't seriously counselling anyone on it....that's according to her.

Whether it's fictitious or not ... irrelevant ... What I'm examining are those who would impune the advice given as not God ordained ... because she is not a pastor or they do not like her biblical approach ... all the while ridiculing her moments of weakness ...

[Carpenter]

I'll have to go back and look at that, Carp.:)

Pull it back up if you can and I will see what we have.

No biggie. It was our discussion about prayer...maybe we can hold it over coffee sometime when you can make your way west to the big city and I don't mean Liberal!! :slaphappy

[Carpenter]

Whether it's fictitious or not ... irrelevant ... What I'm examining are those who would impune the advice given as not God ordained ... because she is not a pastor or they do not like her biblical approach ... all the while ridiculing her moments of weakness ...

D.A. one piece of advice. Drop it. No one needs a crusader here and remember, the crusaders were eventually burned at the stake.

Let it go, take the mantle of another topic to become passionate about.

[SDG]

Another issue ... I am asking to be examined is ... if some are invited to blog ... are the rules different when moderating against hijackers ....???

[HeavenlyOne]

Coonskinner created a similar type thread, I asked a serious question and his response was...

"I'll think about it." :D


I think this and "I don't remember" are the two best responses to most every question in the world. :slaphappy

LOL! I heard that!

[rgcraig]

Another issue ... I am asking to be examined is ... if some are invited to blog ... are the rules different when moderating against hijackers ....???
If you are asking if the blog can stay "other posters free", no. This is a forum and we have threads that anyone can post in.

[HeavenlyOne]

Whether it's fictitious or not ... irrelevant ... What I'm examining are those who would impune the advice given as not God ordained ... because she is not a pastor or they do not like her biblical approach ... all the while ridiculing her moments of weakness ...

If you honestly think someone can be sufficiently counselled by someone they have never met over the internet, then you aren't near as smart as you look. Even Rhoni herself isn't embarrassing herself by suggesting that she does that.

You can call it irrelevant, but you made an erroneous claim that I corrected. Them's the facts, man.

[HeavenlyOne]

Another issue ... I am asking to be examined is ... if some are invited to blog ... are the rules different when moderating against hijackers ....???

If hijackers were moderated, you would only have 8 posts on this forum...LOL!

[Carpenter]

If you honestly think someone can be sufficiently counselled by someone they have never met over the internet, then you aren't near as smart as you look. Even Rhoni herself isn't embarrassing herself by suggesting that she does that.

You can call it irrelevant, but you made an erroneous claim that I corrected. Them's the facts, man.

Can you imagine?

Dear HeavenlyOne, I have this rash...


:slaphappy :slaphappy :slaphappy

[rgcraig]

Can you imagine?

Dear HeavenlyOne, I have this rash...


:slaphappy :slaphappy :slaphappy

Scratch! :bliss

[HeavenlyOne]

Can you imagine?

Dear HeavenlyOne, I have this rash...


:slaphappy :slaphappy :slaphappy

ROFL!

Lamisil will help that.



:D

[SDG]

Whether she is practicing her craft or these were hypotheticals .... Blogs should be a different animal .... JMO.

[HeavenlyOne]

Can you imagine?

Dear HeavenlyOne, I have this rash...


:slaphappy :slaphappy :slaphappy

Seriously though, you are right. One can offer advice, certainly, but counselling? No.

There is a reason why you have to be seen.....and not just talk to the doc or counsellor on the phone.

No matter what profession one is in, when dealing with people, an assessment has to be done as part of the overall evaluation. That can't be done on the internet. Rhoni knows this and I don't believe she would seriously counsel someone on this forum, even if she knew them personally. That would be wrong.

Advise them, perhaps. I do that often myself, but counsel? Never.

[Coonskinner]

Whether she is practicing her craft or these were hypotheticals .... Blogs should be a different animal .... JMO.

This is a forum, not a blog.

The term "Cafe Blog-a Bit" is not intended to imply freedom from feedback.

Wrong again.

[SDG]

This is a forum, not a blog.

The term "Cafe Blog-a Bit" is not intended to imply freedom from feedback.

Wrong again.

No one is implying freedom from feedback ... CS ... just freedom from being impuned shamelessly for advice given...

[Carpenter]

D.A. one piece of advice. Drop it. No one needs a crusader here and remember, the crusaders were eventually burned at the stake.

Let it go, take the mantle of another topic to become passionate about.

Bump for Daniel Alicea

[SDG]

Bump for Daniel Alicea

Appreciate the advice ... Carp

[rgcraig]

Appreciate the advice ... Carp

Please take it.

[Coonskinner]

No one is implying freedom from feedback ... CS ... just freedom from being impuned shamelessly ...

On a forum, there is no freedom from your ideas and concepts being challenged and held up to scrutiny.

Your agenda is plain here.

[SDG]

On a forum, there is no freedom from your ideas and concepts being challenged and held up to scrutiny.

Your agenda is plain here.

As is yours ... 'nuff said. :ty

[Coonskinner]

As is yours ... 'nuff said. :ty


Certainly.

I have never made a secret of mine, nor pretended that it was more noble than it is.

I have been open about it.

Too bad all of us cannot say the same.

[SDG]

I've expressed my opinion ... take it for what it's worth .. CS.

[Coonskinner]

I've expressed my opinion ... take it for what it's worth .. CS.

I have.

[Praxeas]

I hope this is over because I am finally getting tired of it, NOT implicating anyone as to fault, but it does get tiring to see people go back and forth like this as it must be to be going back and forth like this :-)

Let's all just drop it please and move on to something better?

[HeavenlyOne]

I hope this is over because I am finally getting tired of it, NOT implicating anyone as to fault, but it does get tiring to see people go back and forth like this as it must be to be going back and forth like this :-)

Let's all just drop it please and move on to something better?

THREAD KILLER!!!!

[SDG]

I hope this is over because I am finally getting tired of it, NOT implicating anyone as to fault, but it does get tiring to see people go back and forth like this as it must be to be going back and forth like this :-)

Let's all just drop it please and move on to something better?

Agreed.

[freeatlast]

Time of death 4:31 PM.

May this thread rest in peace.

[seguidordejesus]

*death rattle*

[SDG]

*An eery and awkward kind of silence*

[stmatthew]

So did we ever figure out if this forum was really Apostolic??

:D

[SDG]

So did we ever figure out if this forum was really Apostolic??

:D

No ... but I can certify ... that I am more Apostolic than you are!!!!

[ManOfWord]

So did we ever figure out if this forum was really Apostolic??

:D

If you're here and I'm here it is!!!!!

That should just about settle it! :D

[Jekyll]

So did we ever figure out if this forum was really Apostolic??

:D


Yes and no...

:bliss :bliss :bliss :bliss

[EA]

I was speaking with a friend yesterday telling him about this forum, then I received a PM from another friend lamenting about what this community has become.

I am kind of frustrated at a couple of things.

There seems to be somewhat of a silent exodus from this forum of men and ladies that once carried the water in our other forums.

In PMs and such, there is a consistent line throughout their reasoning that "they have had enough of shallow talk, the piling on, unaccountibility, blasting people instead of issues, etc. In addition, this person told me that he/she feels the deeper thinking posts/threads are ignored. Some have said this forum is getting worse than NFCF or FCF on their worst of days.

I am not sure I agree, but that is the point nevertheless.

We are quick to say "So Long" to these people and it is sad. On the other hand the forum is only as good and has as much quality as people are willing to offer.

I have one question...in the mission statement of this forum it implies that folks here are Apostolic. Given some of what I have seen and read...I am seriously questioning if this is indeed true.


Anybody seen Carp?:blush

[mizpeh]

Anybody seen Carp?:blush

He was around last week taking a break from his MBA..or something like that. I think he plans on attending Bro Epley's revival services in Colorado Springs.

[EA]

He was around last week taking a break from his MBA..or something like that. I think he plans on attending Bro Epley's revival services in Colorado Springs.

Did Carp go over to the dark side?

[mizpeh]

Did Carp go over to the dark side?I think he wades in the waters occasionally. :spit

[theman238]

I think Apostolic means something like (like the Apostles). This forum is blue and white and has a bunch of crazy ppl in it. I don't think the apostles where like that. They weren't on the internet either. They also died a long time ago, and they had the Holy Ghost. This forum is lifeless and probably couldn't harbor the holy spirit even with terabytes of memory. If it did it would probably backslide not too long afterwords.

[StillStanding]

I think Apostolic means something like (like the Apostles). This forum is blue and white and has a bunch of crazy ppl in it. I don't think the apostles where like that. They weren't on the internet either. They also died a long time ago, and they had the Holy Ghost. This forum is lifeless and probably couldn't harbor the holy spirit even with terabytes of memory. If it did it would probably backslide not too long afterwords.

:ursofunny

[simplyme]

The first part of the thread questions asks: "What difference does it make"?

I would say "not much" were it not for the TITLE of this forum., it implies
that this is a place for APOSTOLICS to gather., and fellowship.,
or better yet, discuss {NOT desecrate} THE BIBLE which it would be assumed that APOSTOLICS would place {or should :foottap } as their PRIORITY.

YET, in the latter half of the forum title, it says 'FRIENDS' soooo, being that APOSTOLICS may, and often do, have 'friends' (whether or not they're Apostolic may be irrelevant) I guess then its an open door for whomsoever is a friend of an Apostolic, to JOIN as a mbr and enjoy all the benefits they
may find.

OKAY!!!???? :D

[ILG]

When I look at the polls, it seems to me that this forum is definately made up of liberal Apostolics (non-standards). Most of the people here still believe strongly in Jesus name baptism and the infilling of the Holy Ghost. Most attend churches that preach and teach such. Most of the more liberal Apostolics are pretty much the same as they were when we all started. I'm not sure where the conservatives went. I suspect it is more that the conservatives left and then where they left a gaping hole they said "See!! We TOLD you they were getting more liberal". It is more likely the space that they left that they are pointing at and anyone can see the empty space. However, I think it is more they that left than that the forum has changed. *I* have changed, but people like CC1, Renda, Pianoman etc. are the same as they always were IMO.

[Nitehawk013]

I would guess many of the more conservative that may have left, did so because of the strong liberal shift of so many posters. I am new, but it doesn't take long to notice.

I am far from the ultra-con crowd. Trustme, I have been rebuked and told I need to fear for my soul by more than one good Apostolic man because of my "liberal" thoughts on a few subjects. And here....I feel as though I am an ultra-con in comparison to many of the posters who appear to be of the anythign goes variety. Heck, I come across a good many who don't even seem convinced of ONeness.

So why would they stay when they feel they are outnumbered and attacked. How many times do you have to hear "where does the Bible say a woman can't wear pants" before you get sick of the endless argument and find less confrontational company?

[mizpeh]

I would guess many of the more conservative that may have left, did so because of the strong liberal shift of so many posters. I am new, but it doesn't take long to notice.

I am far from the ultra-con crowd. Trustme, I have been rebuked and told I need to fear for my soul by more than one good Apostolic man because of my "liberal" thoughts on a few subjects. And here....I feel as though I am an ultra-con in comparison to many of the posters who appear to be of the anythign goes variety. Heck, I come across a good many who don't even seem convinced of ONeness.

So why would they stay when they feel they are outnumbered and attacked. How many times do you have to hear "where does the Bible say a woman can't wear pants" before you get sick of the endless argument and find less confrontational company?The former owners of this site were conservative UPC preachers.

[Baron1710]

I would guess many of the more conservative that may have left, did so because of the strong liberal shift of so many posters. I am new, but it doesn't take long to notice.

I am far from the ultra-con crowd. Trustme, I have been rebuked and told I need to fear for my soul by more than one good Apostolic man because of my "liberal" thoughts on a few subjects. And here....I feel as though I am an ultra-con in comparison to many of the posters who appear to be of the anythign goes variety. Heck, I come across a good many who don't even seem convinced of ONeness.

So why would they stay when they feel they are outnumbered and attacked. How many times do you have to hear "where does the Bible say a woman can't wear pants" before you get sick of the endless argument and find less confrontational company?

Yea!! Who are these stupid Christians that think they need Scripture for everything, and not just Scripture but Scripture correctly interpreted and applied. Those people would run anybody off.

And on another note, never trust any one who says, "Trust me."
You can trust me on that.

[Nitehawk013]

Way to miss the point. Congrats.

If you don't think a woman should wear pants, you have that right. You shouldn't have to be afraid to express an opinion because you know when you do so it will be "dog pile on the conservative". Hence, I understand why they would leave.

Sure, the pants issue is a tradition. Paul said they would hold to some traditions. Not all traditions are bad. But to the Liberal, when it is a tradition it gets treated like it is the plague and must be obliterated.

I didn't say i agreed or disagred with those who left, nor do I know their reasons. I simply said that I can see why some would when they aren't even allowed to express their opinion without knowing a group of liberals will descend upon them and attack.

[StillStanding]

Way to miss the point. Congrats.

If you don't think a woman should wear pants, you have that right. You shouldn't have to be afraid to express an opinion because you know when you do so it will be "dog pile on the conservative". Hence, I understand why they would leave.

Sure, the pants issue is a tradition. Paul said they would hold to some traditions. Not all traditions are bad. But to the Liberal, when it is a tradition it gets treated like it is the plague and must be obliterated.

I didn't say i agreed or disagred with those who left, nor do I know their reasons. I simply said that I can see why some would when they aren't even allowed to express their opinion without knowing a group of liberals will descend upon them and attack.
Your points are valid! Just as you shouldn't judge an organization by it's extreems, you shouldn't judge this forum by the extreems. There are folks who post here from BOTH the left and right that embarrass me as an Apostolic christian.

I have learned to roll my eyes and pretty much ignore some posters. There are some that left that I miss, but many that I don't!

[HeavenlyOne]

Way to miss the point. Congrats.

If you don't think a woman should wear pants, you have that right. You shouldn't have to be afraid to express an opinion because you know when you do so it will be "dog pile on the conservative". Hence, I understand why they would leave.

Sure, the pants issue is a tradition. Paul said they would hold to some traditions. Not all traditions are bad. But to the Liberal, when it is a tradition it gets treated like it is the plague and must be obliterated.

I didn't say i agreed or disagred with those who left, nor do I know their reasons. I simply said that I can see why some would when they aren't even allowed to express their opinion without knowing a group of liberals will descend upon them and attack.

Funny that men never bring up the tradition of wearing high heels, stockings,nightgowns, skirts and tunics to drive home a point, huh?

[Nitehawk013]

Not sure I ever hear a preacher say you have to wear heels, stockings, nightgowns or tunics. I know some women who refuse to wear anything but a nightgown to bed because they feel it is hypocritical to wear a skirt/dress all day and then throw on pants at night though.

I don't know you and I am really only just learning tidbits about people in general, but you seem to have a real "bitter formerly traditional Apostolic woman turned raging feminist" vibe. I hope I am wrong, but the way you seem to always pop in on any mention of expecting women to be ladylike, not usurp power over men or call Apo men chauvenists kinda just supports my point.

[Sister Alvear]

be passionate about eternity dear ones...not on styles that soon pass and doctrines that hold no water...live what you believe...be merciful to those that differ with you...be kind in this seemly unkind world...The world will know if you are a real christian...

[Sister Alvear]

and yes I am Apostolic...

[HeavenlyOne]

Not sure I ever hear a preacher say you have to wear heels, stockings, nightgowns or tunics. I know some women who refuse to wear anything but a nightgown to bed because they feel it is hypocritical to wear a skirt/dress all day and then throw on pants at night though.

Only because they are men and there is no way they want to go back to that kind of lifestyle. Besides, those items haven't been worn by western society in at least 100 years, some longer than that, and the 'old paths' don't go back that far.

I don't know you and I am really only just learning tidbits about people in general, but you seem to have a real "bitter formerly traditional Apostolic woman turned raging feminist" vibe. I hope I am wrong, but the way you seem to always pop in on any mention of expecting women to be ladylike, not usurp power over men or call Apo men chauvenists kinda just supports my point.

Well, how would you like it if women were constantly harping on what men should or shouldn't do? Do you think we have that right?

This isn't something that happens once in a while, it's constant, and we are sick of hearing it from MEN who have not a clue what they are talking about. And get real...men are talking about women merely looking ladylike. It's about mentioning specifics and trying to tie them into scriptural doctrine where none exists.

And yes, you are wrong in your assumption of me. :smack

[HeavenlyOne]

be passionate about eternity dear ones...not on styles that soon pass and doctrines that hold no water...live what you believe...be merciful to those that differ with you...be kind in this seemly unkind world...The world will know if you are a real christian...

You mean like how men let go of their tunics, high heels, stockings, and nightgowns worn 75+ years ago, but expect women to continue to dress according to the traditional dress of 75+ years ago? LOL!

[Raven]

be passionate about eternity dear ones...not on styles that soon pass and doctrines that hold no water...live what you believe...be merciful to those that differ with you...be kind in this seemly unkind world...The world will know if you are a real christian...

Once again very wise words Sister Alvear! Thankyou!

Raven

[Nitehawk013]

"Well, how would you like it if women were constantly harping on what men should or shouldn't do? Do you think we have that right?"

I would love it. Personally I get sick of men and women both never getting their feet held to the fire over what is expected of them. As much as I strongly feel wopmen should follow the standards, I feel men should follow them too. I also think men need to quit pretending to be teenagers well into their 30's and start acting like men.

You have no idea how hard I am on men. I think Apostolic men are in many cases a disgrace to the title "man" by the way they behave and refuse to be gentlemen, give honro to the women in their lives, work steady jobs to provide and be fathers instead of spending all their time playing video games or sports with friends.

If men would be the godly men they are supposed to be, then I think women would have a far easier time respecting and "submitting" to their husbands as well as following their wishes when it comes to standards.

[MawMaw]

"Well, how would you like it if women were constantly harping on what men should or shouldn't do? Do you think we have that right?"

I would love it. Personally I get sick of men and women both never getting their feet held to the fire over what is expected of them. As much as I strongly feel wopmen should follow the standards, I feel men should follow them too. I also think men need to quit pretending to be teenagers well into their 30's and start acting like men.

You have no idea how hard I am on men. I think Apostolic men are in many cases a disgrace to the title "man" by the way they behave and refuse to be gentlemen, give honro to the women in their lives, work steady jobs to provide and be fathers instead of spending all their time playing video games or sports with friends.

If men would be the godly men they are supposed to be, then I think women would have a far easier time respecting and "submitting" to their husbands as well as following their wishes when it comes to standards.


:cheer :cheer :cheer

[DividedThigh]

i can only speak for me, i am an apostolic, thru and thru, dt

[Carpenter]

"Well, how would you like it if women were constantly harping on what men should or shouldn't do? Do you think we have that right?"

I would love it. Personally I get sick of men and women both never getting their feet held to the fire over what is expected of them. As much as I strongly feel wopmen should follow the standards, I feel men should follow them too. I also think men need to quit pretending to be teenagers well into their 30's and start acting like men.

You have no idea how hard I am on men. I think Apostolic men are in many cases a disgrace to the title "man" by the way they behave and refuse to be gentlemen, give honro to the women in their lives, work steady jobs to provide and be fathers instead of spending all their time playing video games or sports with friends.

If men would be the godly men they are supposed to be, then I think women would have a far easier time respecting and "submitting" to their husbands as well as following their wishes when it comes to standards.


Here is the deal. Men will be men when women decide they are going to give him the respect (whether he deserves it or not, it is a commandment of the Lord) higer than the level of the ministry.

**Pastor Bashing Alert!!*** (for those of you with that stigma)
Husbands will never ever be able to compete with the man you have idealized standing up there delivering the word of God. Frankly, I am sick of the ministry of the church usurping (regardless if it is subconscience or not) the role and leadership of families. There is no room for the pastor in the hiearchy of the family.

The problem becomes when the husband feels compromised by his wife's loyalty to the church and ministry if the husband has a problem with what is going on. All of the sudden the church has driven a wedge smack dab in the middle of the family. It only takes one small insignificant thing for the wife to shift her loyalty to the church over the direction of her Godly husband for things to start unraveling.

Men are to commanded to love their wifes...regardless, women are commanded to respect their husbands...regardless.

[KWSS1976]

Capenter I know exactly what you are talking about....

[*AQuietPlace*]

Here is the deal. Men will be men when women decide they are going to give him the respect (whether he deserves it or not, it is a commandment of the Lord) higer than the level of the ministry.

**Pastor Bashing Alert!!*** (for those of you with that stigma)
Husbands will never ever be able to compete with the man you have idealized standing up there delivering the word of God. Frankly, I am sick of the ministry of the church usurping (regardless if it is subconscience or not) the role and leadership of families. There is no room for the pastor in the hiearchy of the family.

The problem becomes when the husband feels compromised by his wife's loyalty to the church and ministry if the husband has a problem with what is going on. All of the sudden the church has driven a wedge smack dab in the middle of the family. It only takes one small insignificant thing for the wife to shift her loyalty to the church over the direction of her Godly husband for things to start unraveling.

Men are to commanded to love their wifes...regardless, women are commanded to respect their husbands...regardless.
I absolutely agree, Carpenter.

[Nitehawk013]

Here is the deal. Men will be men when women decide they are going to give him the respect (whether he deserves it or not, it is a commandment of the Lord) higer than the level of the ministry.

**Pastor Bashing Alert!!*** (for those of you with that stigma)
Husbands will never ever be able to compete with the man you have idealized standing up there delivering the word of God. Frankly, I am sick of the ministry of the church usurping (regardless if it is subconscience or not) the role and leadership of families. There is no room for the pastor in the hiearchy of the family.

The problem becomes when the husband feels compromised by his wife's loyalty to the church and ministry if the husband has a problem with what is going on. All of the sudden the church has driven a wedge smack dab in the middle of the family. It only takes one small insignificant thing for the wife to shift her loyalty to the church over the direction of her Godly husband for things to start unraveling.

Men are to commanded to love their wifes...regardless, women are commanded to respect their husbands...regardless.

That's good preaching.

I am the preist of my home. My fiance will be my wife. She is my beloved. Flesh of my flesh. No man, pastor or otherwise, has a right to overstep my headship and relationship with her. If she is in sin, then we will deal with it together.

I have seen Pastors call other mens wives into the office and rip them for things without having the husband in th eoffice with them. Thathusband asked me what he should do. I told him Pastor or not, he would have me in his office telling him that if he ever calls my wife aside and rips her again hes going to have me to deal with.

[DividedThigh]

i agree carp, in our house, it is established, the spiritual leader is me, a heavy responsibility, but i accept this calling from god gladly, god, family , church is our pyramid, dt

[DividedThigh]

That's good preaching.

I am the preist of my home. My fiance will be my wife. She is my beloved. Flesh of my flesh. No man, pastor or otherwise, has a right to overstep my headship and relationship with her. If she is in sin, then we will deal with it together.

I have seen Pastors call other mens wives into the office and rip them for things without having the husband in th eoffice with them. Thathusband asked me what he should do. I told him Pastor or not, he would have me in his office telling him that if he ever calls my wife aside and rips her again hes going to have me to deal with.

no pastor with half a brain would go into an office with another mans wife without his presence, that is a ticket to disaster, dt

[Baron1710]

I will probably get blasted for this, but here goes...

I don't call the shots at my house, we discuss things and make a decision together.

A proper understanding of Ephesians is mutual submission, just back up one verse and you will see that. The command to wives seems to be saying that the women there had a problem with submission but the context is one of mutual submission.