Ezek 16:8-17

[Truthseeker]

I know you all have heard more standards theads then ya can shake a stick at but I am honestly trying to get a better understanding, so please help me out with the below scripture. Thanks




Ezek 16:8-17

8 Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine.
9 Then washed I thee with water; yea, I throughly washed away thy blood from thee, and I anointed thee with oil.
10 I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk.
11 I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck.
12 And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head.
13 Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom.
14 And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord GOD.
15 But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.
16 And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so.
17 Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them,
KJV

If ornaments are so wrong why did God say I decked thee with ornaments, bracelets, necklace and even earrings??

[SDG]

I know you all have heard more standards theads then ya can shake a stick at but I am honestly trying to get a better understanding, so please help me out with the below scripture. Thanks




Ezek 16:8-17

8 Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine.
9 Then washed I thee with water; yea, I throughly washed away thy blood from thee, and I anointed thee with oil.
10 I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk.
11 I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck.
12 And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head.
13 Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom.
14 And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord GOD.
15 But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.
16 And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so.
17 Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them,
KJV

If ornaments are so wrong why did God say I decked thee with ornaments, bracelets, necklace and even earrings??

To confuse some Apostolics???

[Truthseeker]

To confuse some Apostolics???


I know, I'm one of them.

Have any input on it?

[SDG]

I know, I'm one of them.

Have any input on it?

I'm one of the resident liberals ... here ... everyone knows what I'm going to say ... Truthseeker ... you have found the missing link ... what can tell ya ... :killinme :killinme :killinme :killinme

[Sam]

...
If ornaments are so wrong why did God say I decked thee with ornaments, bracelets, necklace and even earrings??

Because God doesn't have the same opinion about jewelry that some preachers have.

(from a conservative)

[SDG]

Because God doesn't have the same opinion about jewelry that some preachers have.

(from a conservative)

I love you Sam ... preach on ... lol.

[Sherri]

God loves to adorn His children; what else could anyone derive from this scripture???? He created jewels; how could He think they're sinful?

[Truthseeker]

One prob I have with earrings is it's self mutilation, but I can't deny what Ezekial says "I decked thee with......"

I've heard it said that's speaking spiritually, but if so why would even use something that suppose to me sinful and vain to describe what he decking his people with??


Even the New Jerusalem city which is the church and now is, is decribed as being as wife adorned for her husband.

[Truthseeker]

God loves to adorn His children; what else could anyone derive from this scripture???? He created jewels; how could He think they're sinful?

Some would say he created cocaine too.

[SDG]

Abraham was a friend of God ... and he gave Rebekah, Isaac's young bride, jewelry as a gift ... and you better believe Sarah wasn't going to accept anything less.

[Steve Epley]

I know you all have heard more standards theads then ya can shake a stick at but I am honestly trying to get a better understanding, so please help me out with the below scripture. Thanks




Ezek 16:8-17

8 Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine.
9 Then washed I thee with water; yea, I throughly washed away thy blood from thee, and I anointed thee with oil.
10 I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk.
11 I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck.
12 And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head.
13 Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom.
14 And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord GOD.
15 But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.
16 And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so.
17 Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them,
KJV

If ornaments are so wrong why did God say I decked thee with ornaments, bracelets, necklace and even earrings??

IN the OT God at times suffered things like polygamy-divorce-vengence-concubines-jewelry.
However at points of consecration in the OT they took their jewelry off and the majority of the times it is used in reference to pagans that had it.

[SDG]

IN the OT God at times suffered things like polygamy-divorce-vengence-concubines-jewelry.
However at points of consecration in the OT they took their jewelry off and the majority of the times it is used in reference to pagans that had it.

Right ....

[crakjak]

One prob I have with earrings is it's self mutilation, but I can't deny what Ezekial says "I decked thee with......"

I've heard it said that's speaking spiritually, but if so why would even use something that suppose to me sinful and vain to describe what he decking his people with??


Even the New Jerusalem city which is the church and now is, is decribed as being as wife adorned for her husband.

They soon be calling you liberal. J/K
You bring some very important questions to bear on the subject. Most folks study to affirm predetermined ideas. That is wrong, we should study to know the heart and mind of God. If we read about the Jerusalem conference that was to determined what the apostles would require of the new Gentile believers we do not find many of the extra biblical ideas espoused about.

[Truthseeker]

IN the OT God at times suffered things like polygamy-divorce-vengence-concubines-jewelry.
However at points of consecration in the OT they took their jewelry off and the majority of the times it is used in reference to pagans that had it.


That's a point to consider for sure, but it's not just something they did , but God did "I decked thee with"


It never says, that I know of, I give then 10 wives as in he himself gave them. Am I making sense.

[crakjak]

Some would say he created cocaine too.

Yet He did not adore His people with cocaine or approve it's use.

[Truthseeker]

They soon be calling you liberal. J/K



yeah, I know, but I'm just trying to be objective and let the scriptures quide me. I have no deesire for the stuff or to see it on my wife, but scripture has to be the standard.

[Truthseeker]

Yet He did not adore His people with cocaine or approve it's use.

right, so it is with jewels??

[crakjak]

IN the OT God at times suffered things like polygamy-divorce-vengence-concubines-jewelry.
However at points of consecration in the OT they took their jewelry off and the majority of the times it is used in reference to pagans that had it.

Like when Moses was on the mount? Don't think that was consecration to the one true God.

[SDG]

yeah, I know, but I'm just trying to be objective and let the scriptures quide me. I have no deesire for the stuff or to see it on my wife, but scripture has to be the standard.

Truthseeker ... that's what many are saying .... You are a priest in your own home but to legislate some these "standards" as God's Word ... is not flying anymore.

[crakjak]

right, so it is with jewels??

As He did with jewels, yes that is right. Jewelry like many things can be idolatry, but is not in and of itself.

[Truthseeker]

Truthseeker ... that's what many are saying .... You are a priest in your own home but to legislate some these "standards" as God's Word ... is not flying anymore.


And maybe because we lived a way so long it's hard to accept somethings? not that it's scripture.

[Theophilus]

Are we Christian or Jewish?

[SDG]

Are we Christian or Jewish?

The apostles were both

[Steve Epley]

That's a point to consider for sure, but it's not just something they did , but God did "I decked thee with"


It never says, that I know of, I give then 10 wives as in he himself gave them. Am I making sense.

The children of Isreal came from 4 women by Jacob.
Judah thougth he was having an act with a prostitute yet it was his daughter-in-law but the linage came through her and him in this act.
In the law it gave directions for the 'hated & loved" wives and offspring.
Eye for and eye was allowed.
And the list goes on.
But in Isreal's times of consecration the jewelry came off.

[SDG]

The children of Isreal came from 4 women by Jacob.
Judah thougth he was having an act with a prostitute yet it was his daughter-in-law but the linage came through her and him in this act.
In the law it gave directions for the 'hated & loved" wives and offspring.
Eye for and eye was allowed.
And the list goes on.
But in Isreal's times of consecration the jewelry came off.

but God still adorned her anyway ???

[crakjak]

yeah, I know, but I'm just trying to be objective and let the scriptures quide me. I have no deesire for the stuff or to see it on my wife, but scripture has to be the standard.

I understand; scripture tells you not to cast your pearls before the pigs, the implication is that your wife should wear them!:heeheehee :heeheehee

[Truthseeker]

The children of Isreal came from 4 women by Jacob.
Judah thougth he was having an act with a prostitute yet it was his daughter-in-law but the linage came through her and him in this act.
In the law it gave directions for the 'hated & loved" wives and offspring.
Eye for and eye was allowed.
And the list goes on.
But in Isreal's times of consecration the jewelry came off.

I understand, but it doesn't say God gave them wives or prostitutes.

I even understand Rahab was a harlot and in the lineage of Jesus, I'm sure she didn't keep the standard.

What I'm looking at is it says God gave them the jewelry. And some contend they took them off because some jewelry was assiociated with pagan worship not that all jewelry is.

I'm really trying to look at this objectively not trying to justify any thing.

[Truthseeker]

but God still adorned her anyway ???


That's what I'm looking at. Why would God say he's decking them out with something that is sinful??

[SDG]

I understand, but it doesn't say God gave them wives or prostitutes.

I even understand Rahab was a harlot and in the lineage of Jesus, I'm sure she didn't keep the standard.

What I'm looking at is it says God gave them the jewelry. And some contend they took them off because some jewelry was assiociated with pagan worship not that all jewelry is.

I'm really trying to look at this objectively not trying to justify any thing.

You are rightly dividing the Word ... Truthseeker ..

[SDG]

why would Jesus use a parable in which a Father gives his long lost son a ring???

[Theophilus]

The apostles were both

You're mixing nationality with covenant. The apostles were new covenant Christians and no longer held to Judaism.

So then, are we Christian or Jewish?

[Truthseeker]

Bro Dan

What are your thoughts about if earrings are ok for women then it's got to ok for men?

Although, the theme trough scripture is that it's a female thing.

[Truthseeker]

You're mixing nationality with covenant. The apostles were new covenant Christians and no longer held to Judaism.

So then, are we Christian or Jewish?


any thoughts on ezekial 16:8-17?

[Sam]

...
I'm really trying to look at this objectively not trying to justify any thing.

In the OT, jewelry was just an accepted thing.

There are two passages in the NT that speak of adornment for ladies in the church. They are 1 Tim 2:8-10 and 1 Peter 3:3-6. In my personal opinion, these verses do not prohibit women fixing their hair or putting on clothing or jewelry, but emphasize that the REAL adornment of a woman is the attitude, character, warmth, and love that flows from within and not just what's seen outside.

[crakjak]

And maybe because we lived a way so long it's hard to accept somethings? not that it's scripture.

That is so true, but if you know what scripture says, you can live in faith toward God. Let God be true and every man a liar. Jesus rebuked religious leaders more than He did any category of sinner, because they used their power to oppress the regular folks. Be thoughtful and kind but "know the truth and be set free". That is a principal of relationship with God, not just on this particular subject.

[Theophilus]

I understand; scripture tells you not to cast your pearls before the pigs, the implication is that your wife should wear them!:heeheehee :heeheehee

Not so fast, er, uh, crak,



The NT teaches in 1 Timothy:

1Ti 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

[Truthseeker]

In the OT, jewelry was just an accepted thing.

There are two passages in the NT that speak of adornment for ladies in the church. They are 1 Tim 2:8-10 and 1 Peter 3:3-6. In my personal opinion, these verses do not prohibit women fixing their hair or putting on clothing or jewelry, but emphasize that the REAL adornment of a woman is the attitude, character, warmth, and love that flows from within and not just what's seen outside.

your baptist, aren't you?:heeheehee

[SDG]

You're mixing nationality with covenant. The apostles were new covenant Christians and no longer held to Judaism.

So then, are we Christian or Jewish?

Theo ... we are Gentiles .....

12The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. 13For we were all baptized by[c] one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.

There were many Jewish Christian believers who still went to synagogue including some of the Apostles .... while still living in the New Covenant ...

[Sam]

Bro Dan

What are your thoughts about if earrings are ok for women then it's got to ok for men?

Although, the theme trough scripture is that it's a female thing.

I don't think jewelry is only for women.

[Sam]

your baptist, aren't you?:heeheehee

well, I've been called Baptacostal, however, I consider myself Jesus' Name Apostolic Pentecostal Holiness.

[Theophilus]

any thoughts on ezekial 16:8-17?

Yes, we are Christian and ought to consider the principle found in 1 Timothy to be valid and currently applicable.

1Ti 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

I believe when God wants to adorn us with Jewels, he will, and that day is coming, but is not yet.

[Truthseeker]

I don't think jewelry is only for women.

so you have no prob with brothers wearng earrings?

[SDG]

Yes, we are Christian and ought to consider the principle found in 1 Timothy to be valid and currently applicable.

1Ti 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

I believe when God wants to adorn us with Jewels, he will, and that day is coming, but is not yet.

Read it in it's full context ... Theo ... it's not a call to throw it away .. but for modesty

Similarly, (too,) women should adorn themselves with proper conduct, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hairstyles and gold ornaments, or pearls, or expensive clothes,
10
but rather, as befits women who profess reverence for God, with good deeds.

[Theophilus]

Theo ... we are Gentiles .....

12The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. 13For we were all baptized by[c] one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.

There were many Jewish Christian believers who still went to synagogue including some of the Apostles .... while still living in the New Covenant ...

There is neither Jew nor Greek in Christ.

[Sam]

so you have no prob with brothers wearng earrings?

no, nor do I have a problem with brothers wearing finger rings.

[Sam]

Quote: by Truthseeker to Sam
so you have no prob with brothers wearng earrings?

Response by Sam
no, nor do I have a problem with brothers wearing finger rings.

Additional remark by Sam
Nor do I have a problem with a man wearing a necklace of gold or silver or even of cloth (which would be called a necktie).

[SDG]

There is neither Jew nor Greek in Christ.

You're missing the point ... aren't you Theo ... you're argument about jewelry is based on prooftext ... and tradition ...

[Theophilus]

Read it in it's full context ... Theo ... it's not a call to throw it away .. but for modesty

Similarly, (too,) women should adorn themselves with proper conduct, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hairstyles and gold ornaments, or pearls, or expensive clothes,
10
but rather, as befits women who profess reverence for God, with good deeds.

Bogus, it is in it's full context save to those that disregard it. There is no endorsement otherwise. Our Jewel fest is waiting on down the road, but for now we obey the Word of God and maintain a restraint for the things of this world. That which awaits us makes the things of this world look like dime store renditions. I'll obey the Word and practice delayed gratification.

Furthermore, consider:

1 Peter 3:3

1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; 2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. 3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; 4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

[crakjak]

Not so fast, er, uh, crak,



The NT teaches in 1 Timothy:

Tim. 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

Most would agree that this verse is addressing an excessive focus on these things and not the abolition of their use. Second witness is I Peter 3.3; "Do not let your adornment be merely outward--arranging the hair, wearing of gold, or the putting on of apparel--rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God.

These scriptures to not abolish the use of jewelry, wearing of clothes, but it is telling us to be real and authentic wouldn't you agree?

[Steve Epley]

Yes, we are Christian and ought to consider the principle found in 1 Timothy to be valid and currently applicable.

1Ti 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

I believe when God wants to adorn us with Jewels, he will, and that day is coming, but is not yet.

A good thought!

All you libs plain what moderation is a hint would help?

[SDG]

Most would agree that this verse is addressing an excessive focus on these things and not the abolition of their use. Second witness is I Peter 3.3; "Do not let your adornment be merely outward--arranging the hair, wearing of gold, or the putting on of apparel--rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God.

These scriptures to not abolish the use of jewelry, wearing of clothes, but it is telling us to be real and authentic wouldn't you agree?

Crakjak .. I don't see any thou shalts .. in these verses ... Peter never says don't do it ...

[Theophilus]

You're missing the point ... aren't you Theo ... you're argument about jewelry is based on prooftext ... and tradition ...

It's based on the Word of God, something you've displayed little knowledge of here again.

[Steve Epley]

What part of "NOT" do you not understand????????????????????:tease

[SDG]

It's based on the Word of God, something you've displayed little knowledge of here again.

A text with out a context is a pretext for proof text ... You've ignored historical and cultural context Theo .. you are lacking ....

[crakjak]

Bogus, it is in it's full context save to those that disregard it. There is no endorsement otherwise. Our Jewel fest is waiting on down the road, but for now we obey the Word of God and maintain a restraint for the things of this world. That which awaits us makes the things of this world look like dime store renditions. I'll obey the Word and practice delayed gratification.

Furthermore, consider:

1 Peter 3:3

1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; 2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. 3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; 4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

Likewise our current apparel will be cheap by comparison, so "off with those clothes folks." These verses are very clearly not abolishing the current use of these things.

[crakjak]

Crakjak .. I don't see any thou shalts .. in these verses ... Peter never says don't do it ...

You did read my posts???

[Theophilus]

Most would agree that this verse is addressing an excessive focus on these things and not the abolition of their use. Second witness is I Peter 3.3; "Do not let your adornment be merely outward--arranging the hair, wearing of gold, or the putting on of apparel--rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God.

These scriptures to not abolish the use of jewelry, wearing of clothes, but it is telling us to be real and authentic wouldn't you agree?

Merely is not in the Greek. You've a wishful translation.

Peter is saying: Let it not be.

Simple.

[Neck]

Bogus, it is in it's full context save to those that disregard it. There is no endorsement otherwise. Our Jewel fest is waiting on down the road, but for now we obey the Word of God and maintain a restraint for the things of this world. That which awaits us makes the things of this world look like dime store renditions. I'll obey the Word and practice delayed gratification.

Furthermore, consider:

1 Peter 3:3

1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; 2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. 3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; 4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

It is the most vial spaces, causes many men to seek perversion. It brings to the looking eye all the pride and lust of the flesh.

It is home to $10 Billion dollars per year in the US. Some estimate... it brings in some 48 Billion world wide.

It is one of the single reasons for deprevation in our new age culture.

Yet you and all of us use it each and everyday.

It is the Internet.

Along with all the perversions and sin.

We find ourselves talking about the things of God.

SO more that the wearing of earings and a necklace.

You have already gone down the super highway.

You have learned how to use the internet for spiritual gain.

So as do some in moderation with their apparel.

There is more temptation on the internet.

It has destroyed many a Christian home.

If we could find out...

We all know someone who's marriage or spiritual life has been derailed be the internet........

For some it is like their first drink or cocain snort.

[crakjak]

What part of "NOT" do you not understand????????????????????:tease

Now Bro. Steve, I see you are still wearing apparel. :heeheehee

[Theophilus]

Likewise our current apparel will be cheap by comparison, so "off with those clothes folks." These verses are very clearly not abolishing the current use of these things.

They certainly are. We find it twice, by two seperate Apostles. Buuuttt, do what ya like right?

Are we to go naked? Is this not the desperate extent of your reach both in word and reason?

[SDG]

Now Bro. Steve, I see you are still wearing apparel. :heeheehee

oops ... didn't see that one huh Elder???

[Steve Epley]

Now Bro. Steve, I see you are still wearing apparel. :heeheehee

NOT this apparel as in 1Tim 2:9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Again give me an example of moderation????

[SDG]

NOT this apparel as in 1Tim 2:9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Again give me an example of moderation????

How short can a skirt be Elder????

[Theophilus]

It is the most vial spaces, causes many men to seek perversion. It brings to the looking eye all the pride and lust of the flesh.

It is home to $10 Billion dollars per year in the US. Some estimate... it brings in some 48 Billion world wide.

It is one of the single reasons for deprevation in our new age culture.

Yet you and all of us use it each and everyday.

It is the Internet.

Along with all the perversions and sin.

We find ourselves talking about the things of God.

SO more that the wearing of earings and a necklace.

You have already gone down the super highway.

You have learned how to use the internet for spiritual gain.

So as do some in moderation with their apparel.

There is more temptation on the internet.

It has destroyed many a Christian home.

If we could find out...

We all know someone who's marriage or spiritual life has been derailed be the internet........

For some it is like their first drink or cocain snort.

Apples and oranges.

The internet is nothing more than what you make of it. You can make it sin, or use it for good. Just like life.

[Truthseeker]

Theophilus

Could you address why God himself would deck his people with jewelry? if sinful



ezekial says "I decked thee with....."

[Theophilus]

A text with out a context is a pretext for proof text ... You've ignored historical and cultural context Theo .. you are lacking ....

In your eyes, I'll take that as a compliment. :ty

[Steve Epley]

How short can a skirt be Elder????

NO shorter than half way between the ankle and knee that is in Mitchell anyway.

[Truthseeker]

How short can a skirt be Elder????

or what is short hair on a man?

or what is moderation in eating? Maybe pastors need to start rationing ut daily food allowance to keep folks form gluttony? it is our pet sin:heeheehee

[SDG]

NO shorter than half way between the ankle and knee that is in Mitchell anyway.

Who has decided that this is moderate dress????

[Neck]

Apples and oranges.

The internet is nothing more than what you make of it. You can make it sin, or use it for good. Just like life.

Samething with a Necklace or Earring.

You can melt it down into a Golden image and worship it.

Or you can wear it in moderation.

Did you know, they also melted down their eating utencils and drinking cups.

We still eat and drink don't we using utencils?

Do we not still use a fork and knief.

The key is moderation and how you use it.

If you use any form of dress to be provocative it is wrong.

[Steve Epley]

Who has decide that this is moderate dress????

Me I am the pastor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! here in Mitchell!

[Neck]

NO shorter than half way between the ankle and knee that is in Mitchell anyway.

I think how tight the skirt and the blouse is more important than the length.

[Sam]

NOT this apparel as in 1Tim 2:9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Again give me an example of moderation????

Just one earring instead of two?
Ring on one finger instead of on several fingers?
Bowtie instead of long tie?
Nylon stockings instead of cotton stockings?
Garment half way down the leg instead of all the way to the floor?

[Steve Epley]

I think how tight the skirt and the blouse is more important than the length.

I think the same thing and here at Mitchell we preach against tight form fitting clothing. I teach if it looks seductive keep it for home not public. Look seductive for your husband not the public.

[Neck]

I think the same thing and here at Mitchell we preach against tight form fitting clothing. I teach if it looks seductive keep it for home not public. Look seductive for your husband not the public.

I agree with you on this point.

[Sam]

... Our Jewel fest is waiting on down the road,
...


So,
jewelry was OK in the OT,
wrong in the NT,
but OK in heaven?

[Truthseeker]

There's no jewels in heaven, wear folks get that from?

[crakjak]

NOT this apparel as in 1Tim 2:9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Again give me an example of moderation????

I believe in moderation, not overly exposed, not overly costly, not hiding behind a mask of outward adornment.

Any outward presentation that draws attention to oneself is immodest. I believe apostilics need to be especially cautious in this area today, because traditional apostolic apparel and hair styles are very often very, very obtrusive. The current culture is more casual, many apostolics do not know how to dress causal? I observed a very obvious example of this at Outback at lunch today. I do not think it glorifies God, hey they were dressed to the tilt 'looking good'.

[SDG]

So,
jewelry was OK in the OT,
wrong in the NT,
but OK in heaven?

More context... Sam ...thanks .... they would rather go down fighting for tradition... than cede ... to the whole counsel of the Word.

[Neck]

Just one earring instead of two?
Ring on one finger instead of on several fingers?
Bowtie instead of long tie?
Nylon stockings instead of cotton stockings?
Garment half way down the leg instead of all the way to the floor?

Don't forget:

NO...

short sleeve dress
open toed shoes
Gold rim glasses
A red dress on a woman
High Heel shoes
Slit in the skirt.
Expensive watches
White shoes on a man
Tanning
FM radio
Parting hair in the middle for a man
a man using hair spray
sandles on a man or woman
birth control in marriage.......

[Truthseeker]

Theophilus

Could you address why God himself would deck his people with jewelry? if sinful



ezekial says "I decked thee with....."


bump



anyone from the no jewelry side want to explain why God himself with deck his people with jewelry in ezekial???

[Felicity]

NOT this apparel as in 1Tim 2:9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Again give me an example of moderation????Moderation is not saying .... none, nil, zilch, nada, it's forbidden. That is not moderation.

So what is moderation?

A wedding band?

Wedding band and engagement ring given in pledge of undying love?

Wedding band and engagement ring and grad ring or anniversary ring?

Or birthstone?

Or a pretty ring and stone just because you like it?

No ring. No jewelry of any kind?

[Felicity]

Seems to me we had a discussion one time on FCF about "moderation" and just what it actually meant in the original Greek. :)

[crakjak]

Don't forget:

NO...

short sleeve dress
open toed shoes
Gold rim glasses
A red dress on a woman
High Heel shoes
Slit in the skirt.
Expensive watches
White shoes on a man
Tanning
FM radio
Parting hair in the middle for a man
a man using hair spray
sandles on a man or woman
birth control in marriage.......

Moderation is actually balanced, middle of the road (there are no cars on this road) because you can fall in the ditch on either side.

Be Blessed gentlemen I'm out of this thread.

[Truthseeker]

If we are walking in the Spirit we know when we crossed the line of moderation. Our conscience bears us witness.

[SDG]

Moderation is actually balanced, middle of the road (there are no cars on this road) because you can fall in the ditch on either side.

Be Blessed gentlemen I'm out of this thread.

Thanks crakjak .. you were a blessing.

[Sam]

If we are walking in the Spirit we know when we crossed the line of moderation. Our conscience bears us witness.

I remember a lady in our Bible study group telling us she only felt comfortable wearing a pair of small earrings and not something larger or more ornate. That would be moderation.

[Theophilus]

Theophilus

Could you address why God himself would deck his people with jewelry? if sinful



ezekial says "I decked thee with....."

First of all, this passage is figurative as it applies to Isreal.

As you read on in the passage, things don't work out so well for Isreal as a result. This is a great lesson for us and likely has it's influence on the way God wants us to be in contrast, literally.

Howbeit, when we are no longer human, and with Him in glory, then perhaps we can handle these endowments as rewards and put them in perspective as the faithful bride.

This is as far as I can take it tonight. Good night all and God Bless, Theo.

[Truthseeker]

First of all, this passage is figurative as it applies to Isreal.

As you read on in the passage, things don't work out so well for Isreal as a result. This is a great lesson for us and likely has it's influence on the way God wants us to be in contrast, literally.

Howbeit, when we are no longer human, and with Him in glory, then perhaps we can handle these endowments as rewards and put them in perspective as the faithful bride.

This is as far as I can take it tonight. Good night all and God Bless, Theo.


So God used something sinful to describe something figuratively for Isreal?

[Felicity]

bump



anyone from the no jewelry side want to explain why God himself with deck his people with jewelry in ezekial??? Symbolism?

Similar analogy is used in Revelation giving us a pictorial image of heaven ..... at least in relation to precious stones, gold, silver, etc. Guess it's a little different than actual jewelry but still I think it is possibly partly figurative.

Do you really think Christ wants His bride .... us ladies ... decked out as described in Ezekiel 16? I don't think so, because it goes completely cross grain to the teaching of "modesty" which was declared time and time again in the NT (and old too of course).

[Arphaxad]

why would Jesus use a parable in which a Father gives his long lost son a ring???

In those days men used rings as signets, or family seals that they can stamp on contracts etc. In essence the Father was giving the long lost son authority to again use His name. Since the day of Pentecost we dont need a ring anymore, Eph.1:13 "In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise."NKJV

[SDG]

In those days men used rings as signets, or family seals that they can stamp on contracts etc. In essence the Father was giving the long lost son authority to again use His name. Since the day of Pentecost we dont need a ring anymore, Eph.1:13 "In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise."NKJV

How is it you guys get to explain stuff away like this .. I don't get it ....

[Arphaxad]

How is it you guys get to explain stuff away like this .. I don't get it ....

what do you mean "you guys'? I just told you why a ring was used in the parable, and now were sealed by the Holy Ghost. Since the Holy Ghost wasn't given when Jesus gave the parable He had to use some kind of symbol that they could identify with. It is a parable, isn't it? BTW if someone wants a ring on every finger, toe, ear ,nose, eyelid, or whatever it dont bother me. I never wore jewlery before I was in the church anyway, I think its a waste of money, and another reason for someone to rob you. What does my salvation have to do with someone else wearing jewlery? Let everyone work out there own salvation with fear and trembling.

[The Mrs]

In those days men used rings as signets, or family seals that they can stamp on contracts etc. In essence the Father was giving the long lost son authority to again use His name. Since the day of Pentecost we dont need a ring anymore, Eph.1:13 "In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise."NKJV

It seems to me that although the spiritual significance was different, the physical was not.

The coming of the Spirit did not do away with the purpose or use of the signet ring. Men continued to use signet rings throughout the ages. :dunno

[SDG]

It seems to me that although the spiritual significance was different, the physical was not.

The coming of the Spirit did not do away with the purpose or use of the signet ring. Men continued to use signet rings throughout the ages. :dunno

Common sense .. that's what we need around here ... thank you Mrs. for stating what most would agree is obvious.

[Felicity]

I don't believe it's a sin to wear jewelry -- want to make that clear and I don't condemn those who do.

To me it's all about emphasis and it's pretty clear to me that the emphasis in Scripture was on our heart and spirit and I'm sure the NT saints weren't all decked out in jewelry because the message presented over and over was so much about modesty and temperance.

Peter and Paul wrote those scriptures because there were a lot of new believers in the church who had come in out of the "world" ... out of a pagan heathen culture. Teaching was needed in regard to how Christian women should look and how they should act.

[Arphaxad]

We don't need a ring to show that we have authority to use the Father's name, since were sealed by His Spirit. What's so hard to understand about that?

[Ferd]

It is the most vial spaces, causes many men to seek perversion. It brings to the looking eye all the pride and lust of the flesh.

It is home to $10 Billion dollars per year in the US. Some estimate... it brings in some 48 Billion world wide.

It is one of the single reasons for deprevation in our new age culture.

Yet you and all of us use it each and everyday.

It is the Internet.

Along with all the perversions and sin.

We find ourselves talking about the things of God.

SO more that the wearing of earings and a necklace.

You have already gone down the super highway.

You have learned how to use the internet for spiritual gain.

So as do some in moderation with their apparel.

There is more temptation on the internet.

It has destroyed many a Christian home.

If we could find out...

We all know someone who's marriage or spiritual life has been derailed be the internet........

For some it is like their first drink or cocain snort.

Bro, I have used the internet argument myself in the context of the TV issue.
in my mind you cannot preach against TV yet allow the use of the internet and be consistant. Ive said that from day one. however, this use of the internet argument to say you cannot preach against jewlery but allow internet is just plain wrong.

[Ferd]

I believe in moderation, not overly exposed, not overly costly, not hiding behind a mask of outward adornment.

Any outward presentation that draws attention to oneself is immodest. I believe apostilics need to be especially cautious in this area today, because traditional apostolic apparel and hair styles are very often very, very obtrusive. The current culture is more casual, many apostolics do not know how to dress causal? I observed a very obvious example of this at Outback at lunch today. I do not think it glorifies God, hey they were dressed to the tilt 'looking good'.

God forbid! Sombody went to lunch after CHURCH ON SUNDAY dressed up. Amazing! the sin of it all! good grief. this is your proff that Apostolics dont know how to dress casual?

[Neck]

Bro, I have used the internet argument myself in the context of the TV issue.
in my mind you cannot preach against TV yet allow the use of the internet and be consistant. Ive said that from day one. however, this use of the internet argument to say you cannot preach against jewlery but allow internet is just plain wrong.

My argument was around the idea that Jewlery leads to other things. SO does the internet and so many other things.

Moderation is the key.

Nathan Eckstadt

[Ferd]

So God used something sinful to describe something figuratively for Isreal?

Truthseeker, your honest search for real answers is awesome. I wish more people took that approach instead of tossing the baby out with the bathwater as we see way too often.

I do not believe that God used something sinful to describer something figuratively for Israel. Jewelry is not sinful, but we do understand that jewelry is a visible and outward sign to the world, who understands it as a representation for wealth.

We understand that God "adorned" or BLESSED his people with great wealth so that the heathen nations around Israel would see the blessings he bestowed upon them. Clearly those blessings led Israel to complacency.

Scripture teaches us that Israel is a type and shadow of the church. We see then that God's action of blessings on Israel is a cautionary tale for us. God wants to bless His people but we must remember that those blessings can lead to comfort which can further lead to complacency and stagnation.

We know that God dealt with Israel in a vastly different manner than He deals with the New Testament church. We see this in many different areas. We also know that we have been enjoined to avoid wearing jewelry in the New Testament.

Now if Israel is a Type and Shadow of the New Testament Church, we understand that Israel is a FIGURATIVE example. If then, God blessed Israel with REAL jewelry and costly array; does that not then translate in the same way? If Israel is a Type and Shadow, or a figurative example for the church, then we understand that God does even now BLESS His Church. Israel was a physical example for the spiritual that was to come…and now is.


Truthseeker, in simple terms, what God did in Blessing Israel, He does now with the Church. But what was literal for Israel, is spiritual for the church today. That is a principle that we use ALL of the time, is used throughout the writings of the Apostles, and is a standard in all Christian denominations. God adorned Israel. God adorns His church. Then with natural jewels, now with spiritual. We know this because we are enjoined by both Peter and Paul to not wear jewelry. We are enjoined to be in this world but not of it.

I hope this gives you a better understanding. I hope I didn’t ramble too much. Keep seeking!

[Ferd]

My argument was around the idea that Jewlery leads to other things. SO does the internet and so many other things.

Moderation is the key.

Nathan Eckstadt

still doesnt work. we arent talking about jewlery leading to other things, we are talking about the fact that we are given clear instruction in scripture to avoid it. this isnt a "temptation" discussion.

internet and jewlery dont work. internet and TV does work.

[The Mrs]

still doesnt work. we arent talking about jewlery leading to other things, we are talking about the fact that we are given clear instruction in scripture to avoid it. this isnt a "temptation" discussion.

internet and jewlery dont work. internet and TV does work.

If it were 'clear'...why would we be having this discussion? :dunno

[Ferd]

If it were 'clear'...why would we be having this discussion? :dunno

bible clearly says baptize in Jesus name. we have that discussion.
bible says dont fornicate. I have had "that" discussion with a "saved" methodist. (he thought he was saved while living with his girlfriend)

we have all kinds of discussions about things that are "clear" that some folk want to get around.

[Chan]

I know you all have heard more standards theads then ya can shake a stick at but I am honestly trying to get a better understanding, so please help me out with the below scripture. Thanks




Ezek 16:8-17

8 Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine.
9 Then washed I thee with water; yea, I throughly washed away thy blood from thee, and I anointed thee with oil.
10 I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk.
11 I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck.
12 And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head.
13 Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom.
14 And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord GOD.
15 But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.
16 And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so.
17 Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them,
KJV

If ornaments are so wrong why did God say I decked thee with ornaments, bracelets, necklace and even earrings??Prophecy often contains figurative language. It isn't that God literally covered Israel with jewels, etc., it's that He covered Israel in the beauty of holiness. But Israel, flaunting its special status as God's chosen people, put its trust in that status instead of trusting in God. Because Israel stopped trusting in God, it violated the covenant relationship with God and, in effect, played the harlot and committed adultery against God.

[crakjak]

God forbid! Sombody went to lunch after CHURCH ON SUNDAY dressed up. Amazing! the sin of it all! good grief. this is your proff that Apostolics dont know how to dress casual?

I didn't say it was sin, but I thought is was overdone. Hey, we all have our preferences, I think you know what I mean. If we are going to condemn a little jewelry, let's be consistent and condemn the overdone.

[Neck]

still doesnt work. we arent talking about jewlery leading to other things, we are talking about the fact that we are given clear instruction in scripture to avoid it. this isnt a "temptation" discussion.

internet and jewlery dont work. internet and TV does work.

You simply can not prove that your assumptions. Every minister that has preached against Jewelery has stated that is a look of the world. Then worldly things lead to sin.

There simply is not a mandate in scripture for not wearing jewlery.

And so on....

[Neck]

Prophecy often contains figurative language. It isn't that God literally covered Israel with jewels, etc., it's that He covered Israel in the beauty of holiness. But Israel, flaunting its special status as God's chosen people, put its trust in that status instead of trusting in God. Because Israel stopped trusting in God, it violated the covenant relationship with God and, in effect, played the harlot and committed adultery against God.

With that said we can come up with a figurative Analogy for anything in the bible. We sometimes place too much stock in what some 13th century writer told us a passage represents.

The tabernacle in the wilderness has great analogies for us today.

It was also a literal place....

Nathan Eckstadt

[Sam]

..., Eph.1:13 "In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise."NKJV

Ephesians 1:13-14 "In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise; Who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory." NKJV
The word translated guarantee in the NKJV is translated as follows in some different versions:
earnest KJV
pledge NASB, Moffatt, NEB, Syriac, Phillips, Jerusalem Bible
deposit NIV, Apostolic polyglot
guarantee NLT, NCV, ISV, RSV
signet The Message
In the Koine Greek this word is arrabon which means earnest money, deposit, down payment, or security deposit and I've heard or read that it is used in modern Greek for an engagement ring.

[stmatthew]

I know you all have heard more standards theads then ya can shake a stick at but I am honestly trying to get a better understanding, so please help me out with the below scripture. Thanks




Ezek 16:8-17

8 Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine.
9 Then washed I thee with water; yea, I throughly washed away thy blood from thee, and I anointed thee with oil.
10 I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk.
11 I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck.
12 And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head.
13 Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom.
14 And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord GOD.
15 But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.
16 And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so.
17 Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them,
KJV

If ornaments are so wrong why did God say I decked thee with ornaments, bracelets, necklace and even earrings??

So if we are going to take this text literal, how many believe that Israel was literally running around nekkid when God found them and spread his skirt over them. ANd While we are at it, WHY WAS GOD WEARING A SKIRT!!!

and OH MY!, it says that God washed them with water (baptism), and anointed them with oil (Spirit)

[Arphaxad]

I didn't say it was sin, but I thought is was overdone. Hey, we all have our preferences, I think you know what I mean. If we are going to condemn a little jewelry, let's be consistent and condemn the overdone.

You thought it was overdone, so if the men took off their ties or the ladies let their hair down it would be acceptable to you?

[LadyChocolate]

I know you all have heard more standards theads then ya can shake a stick at but I am honestly trying to get a better understanding, so please help me out with the below scripture. Thanks




Ezek 16:8-17

8 Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine.
9 Then washed I thee with water; yea, I throughly washed away thy blood from thee, and I anointed thee with oil.
10 I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk.
11 I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck.
12 And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head.
13 Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom.
14 And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord GOD.
15 But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.
16 And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so.
17 Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them,KJV

If ornaments are so wrong why did God say I decked thee with ornaments, bracelets, necklace and even earrings??

go back and read verses 15-17

[Felicity]

go back and read verses 15-17Verses 15 - 17 don't negate vss. 14-16. The fact is God is the One ........ it was He Himself who covered her, washed her, anointed her, clothed her, shod her, girded her and decked her with jewelry and crowned her.

It wasn't what God did for her that was the problem. It was her own attitude that became the problem and then the actions that resulted.

[Truly Blessed]

Just putting my two cents worth in from here in Cairo, Egypt. Felicity has hit the nail on the head. It's not the jewelry folks, it's the attitude that we have toward God and the things of God. It is true that God often blesses His people and then they turn away from God and bring Jesus Christ to open shame by the way that they live before the world.

Pride is still one of the most damning sins of the Christian today as it was in the OT. It's usually not the things that man owns that does him in (such as jewelry), it's what owns him that usually becomes his downfall.

My wife can have her jewelry, (which is not very expensive), as long as it doesn't become something that possesses her to the point that she is lifted up in pride by what she wears, or she just has to have some piece of jewelry, etc. to feel complete.

[Brother Price]

Jewelry has no place on a woman or man. Our jewels are in our crown which we shall receive in glory. I have no need of gold down here, because it perishes, and the only reason one wears jewels is to make one look wealthier. It is a pride issue, and that pride must be cast out, so the modesty of the Spirit of a true believer can shew through.

[Chan]

With that said we can come up with a figurative Analogy for anything in the bible. We sometimes place too much stock in what some 13th century writer told us a passage represents.

The tabernacle in the wilderness has great analogies for us today.

It was also a literal place....

Nathan EckstadtNo, we can't! The language of prophecy is inherently different from the language of the rest of scripture. It is often figurative whereas the vast majority of the rest of scripture is simple narrative ("In the beginning, God created...," "Abraham begat Isaac...," "Repent, and believe ye the gospel," etc.). The imagery in so much of prophecy is so obviously intended to mean things other than the images themselves (the "dragon" in Revelation, for example, is said to be Satan; the jewels, etc. in Ezekiel 16:8-17 do not refer to literal jewels and wealth, and so on).

As for some 13th century writer, I don't know who you're referring to and, frankly, I resent you making such statements!

There is a tendency to try and "spiritualize" just about everything in the Old Testament. The tabernacle is exactly what it is: a literal place. You cannot apply it to anything else unless the New Testament does so.

[Truly Blessed]

Jewelry has no place on a woman or man. Our jewels are in our crown which we shall receive in glory. I have no need of gold down here, because it perishes, and the only reason one wears jewels is to make one look wealthier. It is a pride issue, and that pride must be cast out, so the modesty of the Spirit of a true believer can shew through.That's your opinion, and your preference, which I can respect, but just don't say it's a sin to wear jewelry because God does not say that it is a sin. Yes, it can become a pride issue, but so can knowledge, so perhaps we shouldn't have knowledge, right?

[LadyChocolate]

That's your opinion, and your preference, which I can respect, but just don't say it's a sin to wear jewelry because God does not say that it is a sin. Yes, it can become a pride issue, but so can knowledge, so perhaps we shouldn't have knowledge, right?

i've heard some preach that too!!!!!lol:killinme

[Ferd]

I didn't say it was sin, but I thought is was overdone. Hey, we all have our preferences, I think you know what I mean. If we are going to condemn a little jewelry, let's be consistent and condemn the overdone.

Crakjak, if you had said you went to lunch on a tuesday afternoon, and seen such a thing, you would have an arguement. some of us still think it is nice to wear our "Sunday go to meeting" clothes, on sunday....

I know we live in the super casual world of microwave America, but please there is a reason why we call it our "Sunday best".

[Ferd]

You simply can not prove that your assumptions. Every minister that has preached against Jewelery has stated that is a look of the world. Then worldly things lead to sin.

There simply is not a mandate in scripture for not wearing jewlery.

And so on....

what ever bro, all I am saying to you is that you cannot use the internet argument to suggest that it is ok to wear jewlery. that is apples and space rockets.

[LadyChocolate]

You simply can not prove that your assumptions. Every minister that has preached against Jewelery has stated that is a look of the world. Then worldly things lead to sin.

There simply is not a mandate in scripture for not wearing jewlery.

And so on....

Sorry, but where I am from, the preachers preached out of the book concerning jewelry...and they didn't give us the "it just looks like the world blah blah blah" They gave us the WORD OF GOD

[Truly Blessed]

Crakjak, if you had said you went to lunch on a tuesday afternoon, and seen such a thing, you would have an arguement. some of us still think it is nice to wear our "Sunday go to meeting" clothes, on sunday....

I know we live in the super casual world of microwave America, but please there is a reason why we call it our "Sunday best".I'm glad to hear you do! I think folks have carried this wear anything you want to church trend is not healthy myself. Experts recently put out a report on the effects this has had on corporate America and they found it negative and many have gone back to a dress code.

To say that relaxed dress codes for church doesn't impact the way people view church is rather naive I think. To me it is respectful to give our best for Jesus, whatever that may be.

Even in the ministry, I believe that how people view ministers has been diminished by the way they have chosen to dress in unprofessional ways as they go about representing the work of God. Just my humble opinion!

[crakjak]

You thought it was overdone, so if the men took off their ties or the ladies let their hair down it would be acceptable to you?

Ahhh....IIIIII, that's better now!:heeheehee

[crakjak]

Crakjak, if you had said you went to lunch on a tuesday afternoon, and seen such a thing, you would have an arguement. some of us still think it is nice to wear our "Sunday go to meeting" clothes, on sunday....

I know we live in the super casual world of microwave America, but please there is a reason why we call it our "Sunday best".

I understand what you are saying and really it is not a big deal to me, JMO.

I wore suits and ties in a corporate setting for so many years I almost never wear them now. Khakis and sweaters, slacks and shirts that's Sunday best enough for me.

[hammondb3klingon1]

and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them,

Can't get any plainer.

[hammondb3klingon1]

Don't forget:

NO...

short sleeve dress (Define Short)
open toed shoes (WEIRD)
Gold rim glasses (BLIND)
A red dress on a woman (TOO HOT FOR ME)
High Heel shoes (Don't Wear them)
Slit in the skirt. (Only if my trousers go)
Expensive watches (Have a cell phone for telling time)
White shoes on a man (Love the Golf Shoes)
Tanning (Skin cancer. No thanks)
FM radio (Only Limbaugh and Howard Stern)
Parting hair in the middle for a man(Bruthas do not need to part)
a man using hair spray(AGAIN Bruthas no need for spray. That's a whitey thing)
sandles on a man or woman (Not Moses and Murphy's? Dude that stinks)
birth control in marriage (My Wife and 101 kids would disagree with this but I do not let them).......
YEAH

[Truthseeker]

I know you all have heard more standards theads then ya can shake a stick at but I am honestly trying to get a better understanding, so please help me out with the below scripture. Thanks




Ezek 16:8-17

8 Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine.
9 Then washed I thee with water; yea, I throughly washed away thy blood from thee, and I anointed thee with oil.
10 I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk.
11 I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck.
12 And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head.
13 Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom.
14 And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord GOD.
15 But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.
16 And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so.
17 Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them,
KJV

If ornaments are so wrong why did God say I decked thee with ornaments, bracelets, necklace and even earrings??

Arise o thee thread and live! Live I say!
:ursofunny

Anyone got more input on the above scriptures?

[coadie]

Arise o thee thread and live! Live I say!
:ursofunny

Anyone got more input on the above scriptures?

12 And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head.

So how do you approach this from a pick and choose standpoint?

Do you say 1 of the 3 items is correct and the other two are not?

And how fine do you look wearing badger skins?

[Truthseeker]

12 And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head.

So how do you approach this from a pick and choose standpoint?

Do you say 1 of the 3 items is correct and the other two are not?

And how fine do you look wearing badger skins?

You tell me. It was God who said I put....

[Falla39]

God loves to adorn His children; what else could anyone derive from this scripture???? He created jewels; how could He think they're sinful?


Sounds like, according to Malachi 3:16,17, that His children ARE HIS
jewels.:heart

Psalms 135:4, He calls them His particular teasure.
Deut. 26:18.

[Truthseeker]

I know you all have heard more standards theads then ya can shake a stick at but I am honestly trying to get a better understanding, so please help me out with the below scripture. Thanks




Ezek 16:8-17

8 Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine.
9 Then washed I thee with water; yea, I throughly washed away thy blood from thee, and I anointed thee with oil.
10 I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk.
11 I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck.
12 And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head.
13 Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom.
14 And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord GOD.
15 But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.
16 And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so.
17 Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them,
KJV

If ornaments are so wrong why did God say I decked thee with ornaments, bracelets, necklace and even earrings??



Some say this is not literal but symbolic, what think ye?

[n david]

AM used that scripture in his message at the 2008 BOTT conference to re-inforce his conviction against jewelry ... said God tried adoring Israel with jewels, etc and after He did that, Israel trusted in her own beauty, became a harlot and committed whoredoms and sin.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Anthony Mangun is against jewelry? Even wedding rings?

[Truthseeker]

Most are only against certain jewelry. watches and wedding rings get a pass.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Abraham was a friend of God ... and he gave Rebekah, Isaac's young bride, jewelry as a gift ... and you better believe Sarah wasn't going to accept anything less.

"Diamonds are forever...." :)

[n david]

Anthony Mangun is against jewelry? Even wedding rings?
I wouldn't say wedding rings, but I don't know. I just watched his message from the 2008 BOTT and he used that scripture in support of holiness.

[Truthseeker]

I wouldn't say wedding rings, but I don't know. I just watched his message from the 2008 BOTT and he used that scripture in support of holiness.

Well, one can't be against jewelry and not against wedding rings. It's jewelry. So are bracelets that tell time.

[Truthseeker]

BTW does AM recognize Isreal was adorned with clothes too?

[pelathais]

BTW does AM recognize Isreal was adorned with clothes too?
I think he might.

[mizpeh]

AM used that scripture in his message at the 2008 BOTT conference to re-inforce his conviction against jewelry ... said God tried adoring Israel with jewels, etc and after He did that, Israel trusted in her own beauty, became a harlot and committed whoredoms and sin.Those are carnal things, jewelry, that caused Israel to adopt a proud and arrogant attitude.

Can't the same thing be said about "holiness standards" and the holier than thou attitude that some believers cop as a result?

[*AQuietPlace*]

Was it the jewelry that caused the arrogant attitude, or was it success?