JOEL OSTEEN interviewed on CBS last night

[Thad]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/10/11/60minutes/main3358652.shtml



controversy still surrounds his prosperity teaching


- what is your opinoin of him ??

[dizzyde]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/10/11/60minutes/main3358652.shtml



controversy still surrounds his prosperity teaching


- what is your opinoin of him ??

I hate to say it...... I know I am going to get crucified..... I actually like the guy. I get his daily emails, they are encouraging! I mix his health & wealth with my common sense! Now his wife........ that's another story!

[Thad]

I hate to say it...... I know I am going to get crucified..... I actually like the guy. I get his daily emails, they are encouraging! I mix his health & wealth with my common sense! Now his wife........ that's another story!



NOoooooooo!!!! come on now

isn't his messages a little too "flowery" ??

and did you hear about his interview on larry king ???

[Sandra]

I hate to say it...... I know I am going to get crucified..... I actually like the guy. I get his daily emails, they are encouraging! I mix his health & wealth with my common sense! Now his wife........ that's another story!

I like him too, very down to earth. Not someone I would want as my Pastor, but he has a group of people he is reaching.
His mom has claimed me as her daughter, sent me money for my birthday.
I love my Big Brother:D

[dizzyde]

NOoooooooo!!!! come on now

isn't his messages a little too "flowery" ??

and did you hear about his interview on larry king ???

No, I missed that. I don't know, maybe it's his "AW, shucks" thing he has going on. It's like, candy religion for me! You know it's not really nutritious for you, but you like a little some time!

[Thad]

No, I missed that. I don't know, maybe it's his "AW, shucks" thing he has going on. It's like, candy religion for me! You know it's not really nutritious for you, but you like a little some time!


you're the first UPCer that i know of that is a Fan of J.O

[Sandra]

No, I missed that. I don't know, maybe it's his "AW, shucks" thing he has going on. It's like, candy religion for me! You know it's not really nutritious for you, but you like a little some time!

We have sooo complicated things. He reaches people not with a fancy sermon, just by being real and down to earth. Kind of refreshing to me.
He is a wonderful person, God is really using him.

[Esther]

The few times I have heard him he always has upbeat positive things to say.

And he always is smiling. :)

Talks a lot about attitudes. :)

[dizzyde]

you're the first UPCer that i know of that is a Fan of J.O

Weeeelllllllll, in some ways you could probably say I'm UPC by association! (Close assoc. LOL) Don't get me wrong, I believe the basic message, I'm just not so hard nosed about a lot of things. I definitely don't "fit in" in Cali!!!!! I just think that when you go through certain things in life, you have to be able see the bigger picture sometimes. I certainly don't believe the UPC is the be-all and end-all of Christianity. IMO!!!!!

[The Mrs]

I remember going to a revival his father held in Germany while I was living there...it was AWESOME! But I was VERY new to pentecostal style ANYTHING.

Apparently they (father and son) are doing something right. :thumbsup

No scandals so far is there? :dunno

:hypercoffee

[SecretWarrior]

NOoooooooo!!!! come on now

isn't his messages a little too "flowery" ??

and did you hear about his interview on larry king ???


He waffled on the issue of homosexuality. He would not come out and say it was sinful. instead, he didn't want to talk about it.


So much for "God using him"

[The Mrs]

We have sooo complicated things. He reaches people not with a fancy sermon, just by being real and down to earth. Kind of refreshing to me.
He is a wonderful person, God is really using him.

I agree with you Sandra...the few times I've seen him, he's impressed me with how real and practical he is.

[dizzyde]

We have sooo complicated things. He reaches people not with a fancy sermon, just by being real and down to earth. Kind of refreshing to me.
He is a wonderful person, God is really using him.

I agree with that 100%.

[SoCaliUPC]

This is what I will say about Joel Osteen....

Basically, he is an inspirational speaker. There is nothing wrong with that. I don't necessarily prescribe to everything that he has to say...but we are all human and not everything (even those we agree with) do we agree 100% on.

I wish he would be more upfront with what he believes and what his convictions are.....but, we have Larry King and subsequent shows after that to say, from his lips, "My job is not to preach sin."

Saying all that...he is a motivational, inspirational speaker.

[Thad]

This is what I will say about Joel Osteen....

Basically, he is an inspirational speaker. There is nothing wrong with that. I don't necessarily prescribe to everything that he has to say...but we are all human and not everything (even those we agree with) do we agree 100% on.

I wish he would be more upfront with what he believes and what his convictions are.....but, we have Larry King and subsequent shows after that to say, from his lips, "My job is not to preach sin."
Saying all that...he is a motivational, inspirational speaker.



WOOOOOW~!~!~~!~!~!~!~!

He really said that???

dizzy, your comment on this is ????

[Thad]

I don't dislike him or have anything personal against him. I just find him to be boring and hard to listen to - it all sounds alike "you can make it"...
hard to believe so many people go and hear him every sunday when there are so many better speakers in the houston metroplex

[dizzyde]

WOOOOOW~!~!~~!~!~!~!~!

He really said that???

dizzy, your comment on this is ????

Like I said, for me, it is candy religion. I agree that he could be called an inspirational speaker, but it is from a religious standpoint, so.......????? I personally don't feel that there is anything wrong with listening to what he has to say. I leave the rest to the experts, LOL!!!

[dizzyde]

I don't dislike him or have anything personal against him. I just find him to be boring and hard to listen to - it all sounds alike "you can make it"...
hard to believe so many people go and hear him every sunday when there are so many better speakers in the houston metroplex

What are you trying to say Thad, you don't want me hearing anybody say that I can make it???? LOL!! :slaphappy :slaphappy :slaphappy

I see how you are!!!! :lol :lol :lol

[SoCaliUPC]

WOOOOOW~!~!~~!~!~!~!~!

He really said that???

dizzy, your comment on this is ????

Here is part of his comments from the transcript of his Larry King interview:

KING: Why are you a preacher?

OSTEEN: You know, I never was for 17 years. I worked with my dad there at the church. He tried to get me to minister. I didn't have it in me. I worked behind the scenes. I loved doing production and things. But when my father died, I just knew -- I don't know how to explain it, it sounds kind of odd, but I just knew down to here I was supposed to step up to the plate and pastor the church. And it was odd because I had never preached before. But I just knew I was supposed to do it.

KING: Did it come easily?

OSTEEN: It did. It came -- it came somewhat easily. I had to study. I was nervous. Still get nervous. But it did. I believe God gives you the grace to do what you need to do. And the great thing about it is the people were so loyal to my father. They wanted one of his sons to take over. And daddy had never really necessarily raised anybody up under him.

KING: What do the other sons do?

OSTEEN: Well, my brother Paul is a surgeon and he works with us there at the church. He gave up his practice to work with us and I have other sisters and brothers that work, as well.

KING: Is -- have you always believed?

OSTEEN: I have always believed. I grew up, you know, my parents were a good Christian people. They showed us love in the home. My parents were the same in the pulpit as they were at home. I think that's where a lot of preachers' kids get off base sometimes. Because they don't see the same things at both places. But I've always believed. I saw it through my parents. And I just grew up believing.

KING: But you're not fire and brimstone, right? You're not pound the decks and hell and dam nation?

OSTEEN: No. That's not me. It's never been me. I've always been an encourager at heart. And when I took over from my father he came from the Southern Baptist background and back 40, 50 years ago there was a lot more of that. But, you know, I just -- I don't believe in that. I don't believe -- maybe it was for a time. But I don't have it in my heart to condemn people. I'm there to encourage them. I see myself more as a coach, as a motivator to help them experience the life God has for us.

KING: But don't you think if people don't believe as you believe, they're somehow condemned?

OSTEEN: You know, I think that happens in our society. But I try not to do that. I tell people all the time, preached a couple Sundays about it. I'm for everybody. You may not agree with me, but to me it's not my job to try to straighten everybody out. The Gospel called the good news. My message is a message of hope, that's God's for you. You can live a good life no matter what's happened to you. And so I don't know. I know there is condemnation but I don't feel that's my place.

KING: You've been criticized for that, haven't you?

OSTEEN: I have. I have. Because I don't know.

KING: Good news guy, right?

OSTEEN: Yeah. But you know what? It's just in me. I search my heart and I think, God, is this what I'm supposed to do? I made a decision when my father died, you know what? I'm going to be who I feel like I'm supposed to be. And if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. Not the end of the world if I'm not the pastor ...

KING: How about issues that the church has feelings about? Abortion? Same-sex marriages?

OSTEEN: Yeah. You know what, Larry? I don't go there. I just ...

KING: You have thoughts, though.

OSTEEN: I have thoughts. I just, you know, I don't think that a same-sex marriage is the way God intended it to be. I don't think abortion is the best. I think there are other, you know, a better way to live your life. But I'm not going to condemn those people. I tell them all the time our church is open for everybody.

KING: You don't call them sinners?

OSTEEN: I don't.

KING: Is that a word you don't use?

OSTEEN: I don't use it. I never thought about it. But I probably don't. But most people already know what they're doing wrong. When I get them to church I want to tell them that you can change. There can be a difference in your life. So I don't go down the road of condemning.

[Thad]

What are you trying to say Thad, you don't want me hearing anybody say that I can make it???? LOL!! :slaphappy :slaphappy :slaphappy

I see how you are!!!! :lol :lol :lol


lol!!! If you need the encouragement AND you are not getting it from YOUR church, well okay go on and listen to Joel Ambien Osteen lol lo l

[MrsMcD]

This is what I will say about Joel Osteen....

Basically, he is an inspirational speaker. There is nothing wrong with that. I don't necessarily prescribe to everything that he has to say...but we are all human and not everything (even those we agree with) do we agree 100% on.

I wish he would be more upfront with what he believes and what his convictions are.....but, we have Larry King and subsequent shows after that to say, from his lips, "My job is not to preach sin."

Saying all that...he is a motivational, inspirational speaker.

This is how I see JO also.

He is a great motivational speaker. I wouldn't depend on him as a pastor to lead me to Heaven. Pastors have more of a responsibility than he is willing to accept. Obviously, folks like his candy messages though because his church is full. Then again, who really wants to hear that the "wages of sin is death" anymore?

[AmazingGrace]

lol!!! If you need the encouragement AND you are not getting it from YOUR church, well okay go on and listen to Joel Ambien Osteen lol lo l



NO NO NO!!!!!!!!! I was told his middle name was Thorazine!!!!!!!! GET IT STRAIGHT!!!!!!!!!!:reaction

[dizzyde]

lol!!! If you need the encouragement AND you are not getting it from YOUR church, well okay go on and listen to Joel Ambien Osteen lol lo l

Oh, what are you trying to say to me now, MY church doesn't have the TRUTH, they aren't preaching me the TRUTH!!!! Yeah, yeah, I've heard all that before!!!! LOL!!!!! :slaphappy :slaphappy :slaphappy :slaphappy

[Jack Shephard]

I like Joel. I think that as a whole we need more sermons like his not all the time but we need them. Too many OP's preach doctrine only and there is no motivating preaching. I have his book and it is good. There is alot of truth in what he says. He is just a different flavor. I agree with Sandra he is reaching people that others may not be able to get.

[dizzyde]

I don't know if I am allowed to reprint something, but the e-mail that I got on Sunday from JO ministries actually talks about sin! I can reprint it here if allowed.

[Margies3]

Joel Osteen reminds me of Norman Vincent Peale. A real encourager. A real motivator. Great cheerleader. But when the rubber meets the road and people stand before God one day, what will they say? "But, gee, God, my pastor told me that he doesn't use the word 'sinner', so I didn't think I could be one"???

I like the guy, don't get me wrong. I think he has a very magnetic and upbeat personality. But people like him in the pulpit scare me. I'm afraid for people's eternal souls if they are not told that they need to be forgiven for their sins.

Maybe I'm wrong and just don't know enough about him. Does he do that?

[dizzyde]

Well, I looked at the forum rules and it didn't seem like this would be wrong, please inform me if I am mistaken. I can't link to this because it was an e-mail, the source is Joel Osteen Ministries, Oct 14, 2007.


“Clothe yourself with the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for indulging the flesh. Put a stop to thinking about the evil cravings of your physical nature” (Romans 13:14 AMP).

Today's Word from Joel and Victoria

Is there something in your life that you would like to put a stop to today? Maybe it’s a certain behavior, addiction, or bad attitude that isn’t pleasing to God? Just as Adam and Eve were exposed in their sin and needed to be clothed in the Garden, we need to clothe ourselves to protect us from sin. When you “clothe yourself” with the Lord Jesus Christ, you will be strong against temptation. How do you clothe yourself with Jesus Christ? In the same way you cover yourself in the natural with clothing. When you receive Jesus as your Lord and Savior, you are covered and cleansed by His blood. You are restored and renewed. Then, cover your mind with the Word of God. Cover your ears by listening to the Word. Cover your eyes by watching only what is pleasing to the Lord. Cover your mouth by speaking the Word and encouraging those around you. As you cover yourself with Christ, you will be strong against temptation, and you will walk in the victory the Lord has planned for you!

A Prayer for Today

Heavenly Father, thank You for sending Your Son Jesus to pay the penalty for my sins. Thank You for providing a way out of temptation so that I can stand clean before You. Help me stand strong as I submit every area of my life to You. In Jesus’ Name. Amen.

[RevDWW]

He might be reaching folks but what is he reaching them with? I have nothing against him personally but to be a preacher and never preach against sin? Seems like an oxymoron. What does it profit a man if he is motivated and his self-osteen is fixed and he makes great gains, but loses his soul? At some point you've got to point them to repentance, baptism and the infilling of the Holy Ghost. Does Joel do that?

[ReformedDave]

He might be reaching folks but what is he reaching them with? I have nothing against him personally but to be a preacher and never preach against sin? Seems like an oxymoron. What does it profit a man if he is motivated and his self-osteen is fixed and he makes great gains, but loses his soul? At some point you've got to point them to repentance, baptism and the infilling of the Holy Ghost. Does Joel do that?

Agreed! As to preaching doctrine, what else is there to preach?!

[chosenbyone]

I would agree that he would be a great motivational speaker, but he does a great injustice to those who need deliverance from their sins and to know the cost that Christ Jesus paid for those sins.

I have attended Lakewood many times for concerts and special occasions and what I witnessed there were people that were allowed to continue in their sins. There were hundreds of homosexuals that congregated and to this day flock to his church, because they won't fall under conviction for living in that lifestyle.

I believe that Joel Osteen for all his good intentions fulfills the scripture in II Timothy below:

3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

2 Timothy 4:3 (New International Version)

[crakjak]

I like Joel. I think that as a whole we need more sermons like his not all the time but we need them. Too many OP's preach doctrine only and there is no motivating preaching. I have his book and it is good. There is alot of truth in what he says. He is just a different flavor. I agree with Sandra he is reaching people that others may not be able to get.

He preaches the good news and leaves the "hell fire and brimstone" to the UCs.:pirate Everyone needs to know their calling, if Hell Fire and condemnation would save folks the whole world would be saved.

[bishoph]

Agreed! As to preaching doctrine, what else is there to preach?!

I do not understand what the big JO deal is, (I don't really get anything out of his talks) except they have rockin powerful worship services that are not seen on their TV broadcast.

I think the problem we have in Apostolicism is that we have missed one of the most basic "rules" for preaching. The only thing the Bible states should be preached is the Gospel. Doctrine is to be taught, but most of the messages in Apostolic churches centers around doctrine. The letter (doctrine) killeth but the spirit (Gospel) maketh alive. There must be a balance, and when a church is imbalanced either way it creates problems. A church with all Gospel and no doctrine (death) tends to be a carnal/wordly church, while a church with all doctrine and no Gospel (life) tends to be legalistic and condemning.

Just my observations

[ThePastorsCoach]

JOEL ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think he is great and doing an incredible job of leading the largest church in the nation. He is a great example of Godliness, Truthfulness and Morality. I like him and pray he grows to the largest church in the WORLD!

[Joseph Miller]

I pray that he will get baptized in Jesus name (if he hasn't already been) and then preach that to the world since he does have such a large following.

[chosenbyone]

Joel Osteen doesn't preach about the redeeming blood of Christ, but a new age message to lull people into a pool that is lukewarm. It is hard for me to believe that Apostolics would promote such a ministry that doesn't offer deliverance from sin. The following is lengthy but very informative regarding his ministry:

If we look once more at Wilken’s framework, we will find that Osteen does very poorly. He seldom mentions Jesus, and only mentions the Bible in passing. Osteen preaches a message that is not distinctly Christian, and in truth is not much different from what you might hear coming from Anthony Robbins or any other motivational, feel-good speaker. He deliberately avoids preaching the full Gospel message. The following quote is from a story in Fox News. “I think for years there’s been a lot of hellfire and damnation. You go to church to figure out what you’re doing wrong and you leave feeling bad like you’re not going to make it…We believe in focusing on the goodness of God….I think it’s a place of life and victory. They want to be encouraged and uplifted.” Michael Horton correctly summarizes Osteen’s preaching, saying that it “sort of treats the Bible as a collection of fortune cookies. If you claim the right verses, then you can have health, wealth and happiness.”

Jesus is rarely mentioned. If He is mentioned, it is as our helper in becoming better people.

The apostle Peter had to admit about Paul’s writings that “there are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.” (2 Peter 3:16) A message that is always simple and never complicated, will only appeal to spiritually shallow people - to people who have a thin veneer of faith coating their lives, but have little desire to allow the message to go deeper and to penetrate every area of their lives. And what is most tragic, is that what is most simple in Scripture, the message of sin, death, forgiveness and life, is the very message Osteen forsakes because that is the message his congregation has no interest in hearing. He preaches a shallow message that perfectly suits shallow Evangelical Christianity. Joel Osteen is the posterboy for shallow, feel-good, meaningless, powerless, Gospel-free Christianity.

[Joseph Miller]

If you will read the transcript of Joel on the Larry King show you will see that he doesn't have the backbone to state what he believes. Makes you wonder if he even knows what he believes.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/20/lkl.01.html

[chosenbyone]

If you will read the transcript of Joel on the Larry King show you will see that he doesn't have the backbone to state what he believes. Makes you wonder if he even knows what he believes.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/20/lkl.01.html

I viewed the airing of that show and wasn't shocked in the least the answers he gave in the interview. I saw the CBS interview too and all I kept thinking about was II Timothy 4:3.

Attending a concert there was one thing, but to actually go to a service was alarming. I gave a bible study to a woman I worked with once and learned quite a bit about what goes on when people were ushered in back rooms after they came up to be saved.

This particular woman stated to me that she was coached into speaking in tongues. I witnessed these false tongues when I visited the church and it was the most bizarre experience I have ever had in a church service.

On a side note, they baptize in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost in Jesus Name. The deception that Lakewood and it's ministers perpetrated had really did a number on this woman. She finally got a hold of the real Holy Ghost and thank God for it!

[Joseph Miller]

I viewed the airing of that show and wasn't shocked in the least the answers he gave in the interview. I saw the CBS interview too and all I kept thinking about was II Timothy 4:3.

Attending a concert there was one thing, but to actually go to a service was alarming. I gave a bible study to a woman I worked with once and learned quite a bit about what goes on when people were ushered in back rooms after they came up to be saved.

This particular woman stated to me that she was coached into speaking in tongues. I witnessed these false tongues when I visited the church and it was the most bizarre experience I have ever had in a church service.

On a side note, they baptize in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost in Jesus Name. The deception that Lakewood and it's ministers perpetrated had really did a number on this woman. She finally got a hold of the real Holy Ghost and thank God for it!

I am glad she found the real! I knew it was all a hoax. IMHO, he is the most boring speaker (because he AIN'T a preacher) I ever heard.

I used to be in Amway and I enjoyed all of those guys more than I do Joel. At least those guy told ya what they really thought about the subject they were speaking on.

[tamor]

If you will read the transcript of Joel on the Larry King show you will see that he doesn't have the backbone to state what he believes. Makes you wonder if he even knows what he believes.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/20/lkl.01.html

He and Victoria were on Larry King again last night. I watched part of the interview.

I could not listen to him week in and week out.....

[Joseph Miller]

He and Victoria were on Larry King again last night. I watched part of the interview.

I could not listen to him week in and week out.....

I can't make it through an entire program. He a lot to talk about and nothing to say.

[ReformedDave]

I do not understand what the big JO deal is, (I don't really get anything out of his talks) except they have rockin powerful worship services that are not seen on their TV broadcast.

I think the problem we have in Apostolicism is that we have missed one of the most basic "rules" for preaching. The only thing the Bible states should be preached is the Gospel. Doctrine is to be taught, but most of the messages in Apostolic churches centers around doctrine. The letter (doctrine) killeth but the spirit (Gospel) maketh alive. There must be a balance, and when a church is imbalanced either way it creates problems. A church with all Gospel and no doctrine (death) tends to be a carnal/wordly church, while a church with all doctrine and no Gospel (life) tends to be legalistic and condemning.

Just my observations

To hear the 'good news' of the gospel one must understand their 'badness' and helplessness with Christ first. The is the doctrine of sin and salvation. BTW, where does the Bible state that the Gospel is the ONLY thing to be preached? Seems like Christ and the apostle did otherwise.

It's interesting how you take 2 Cor: 3:6 out of context. Paul is in no way degrading the law or it's importance. In fact he states it because of our sin that the law kills us. It show us our need of a savior and for the saint it has much to do with practical sanctification.

I do agree that JO preaches nothing and what he has is a gospel without the punishment of the law and in fact it makes the gospel meaningless.

[MrsMcD]

Is JO Baptist?

[ReformedDave]

Is JO Baptist?

Charismatic.

[Sandra]

Is JO Baptist?

Yes , he is Baptist. Its not on the name of the church, but he is.

[ThePastorsCoach]

I like him!

[RevDWW]

I do not understand what the big JO deal is, (I don't really get anything out of his talks) except they have rockin powerful worship services that are not seen on their TV broadcast.

I think the problem we have in Apostolicism is that we have missed one of the most basic "rules" for preaching. The only thing the Bible states should be preached is the Gospel. Doctrine is to be taught, but most of the messages in Apostolic churches centers around doctrine. The letter (doctrine) killeth but the spirit (Gospel) maketh alive. There must be a balance, and when a church is imbalanced either way it creates problems. A church with all Gospel and no doctrine (death) tends to be a carnal/wordly church, while a church with all doctrine and no Gospel (life) tends to be legalistic and condemning.

Just my observationsSeems you might want to find the real definition of "Doctrine". Doctrine is teaching, it's the content of the teaching that can kill or heal. Everyone needs to hear teaching/preaching that will bring them to death, burial and resurrection. There are many doctrines of life in the Word, and there are many doctrines of devils.

First mention of Doctrine as a good thing:
Deuteronomy 32:2 - 4 (KJV) 1 Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth.
2 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:
3 Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.
4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Last mention of Doctrine as a good thing:
2 John 1:7 - 11 (KJV)
7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. 9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 11For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.



Revelation 2 mentions doctrine that are not good teachings.

[Sandra]

I like him!

I do too :D :D :D :D :D

[Thad]

I like him!


what was your opinion of his interview with Larry king ?

He was asked some pretty pointed questions

[ThePastorsCoach]

I think I will go to Houston and see him and will definitely go see him and pay what ever it cost to hear him here in Atlanta. I loved his Father and he was always so very kind to me - took me on a tour of the whole complex and the new office building they had just built and in the chapel and his huge office. I want to meet Joel and Victoria one day - they seem to be so genuine and Godly people. God bless the Osteen's!

[Sandra]

I think I will go to Houston and see him and will definitely go see him and pay what ever it cost to hear him here in Atlanta. I loved his Father and he was always so very kind to me - took me on a tour of the whole complex and the new office building they had just built and in the chapel and his huge office. I want to meet Joel and Victoria one day - they seem to be so genuine and Godly people. God bless the Osteen's!

They are great people, his mom has claimed me as her daughter since my mother died. They are real people, who have a heart after GOD.
Just love Dodie.

[RevDWW]

Joel seems like he'd be a pleasant enough guy and likable, but so is my boss who doesn't attend church (yet). Nice and pleasant don't necessarily make you right in your life or teachings.

[Sandra]

Joel seems like he'd be a pleasant enough guy and likable, but so is my boss who doesn't attend church (yet). Nice and pleasant don't necessarily make you right in your life or teachings.
What makes you think he's not right in his life??

[MrsMcD]

I like the way JO's church worships. I wish other Baptist churches would do the same.

[ThePastorsCoach]

what was your opinion of his interview with Larry king ?

He was asked some pretty pointed questions

Thad - I really thought he did a great job. Our brand on Christianity has alienated millions of people by our approach and condescending attitude. Joel just wants to reach people with the positive message of the GOOD NEWS!
I think most preachers - especially Pentecostal or Apostolic ones - FORGET that the Gospel means - GOOD NEWS!!!!
The past few "Apostolic" services I have been in - was all about WHAT WE ARE! WHAT WE BELIEVE! WE ARE BETTER THAN ANY OTHERS! WE HAVE THE RIGHT WAY!!!!!!!!!!! WE ARE NOT LIKE THE OTHERS!!!!!!!!!!!!
It is kinda like a group identified by Jesus!

To go from running camera's and directing TV Production to pastoring a HUGE Church to writing books and being plastered all over the world as a MEGA-PASTOR and having a demanding schedule and a family and pastoral responsibilities - is a HUGE STEP! Most could not stand up to the pressure.

I don't fault him for anything he said - I think he did great. I think it took tremendous courage to go on Larry King and to answer how he did.
I don't totally agree with everything he said - but then again - I have said things I regretted and have had to re-evaluate the statements I made in the past.
I think he is a Godly, Prayerful and Spirit filled man that loves God, his Family and people. God bless Joel Osteen!

[Sandra]

Thad - I really thought he did a great job. Our brand on Christianity has alienated millions of people by our approach and condescending attitude. Joel just wants to reach people with the positive message of the GOOD NEWS!
I think most preachers - especially Pentecostal or Apostolic ones - FORGET that the Gospel means - GOOD NEWS!!!!
The past few "Apostolic" services I have been in - was all about WHAT WE ARE! WHAT WE BELIEVE! WE ARE BETTER THAN ANY OTHERS! WE HAVE THE RIGHT WAY!!!!!!!!!!! WE ARE NOT LIKE THE OTHERS!!!!!!!!!!!!
It is kinda like a group identified by Jesus!

To go from running camera's and directing TV Production to pastoring a HUGE Church to writing books and being plastered all over the world as a MEGA-PASTOR and having a demanding schedule and a family and pastoral responsibilities - is a HUGE STEP! Most could not stand up to the pressure.

I don't fault him for anything he said - I think he did great. I think it took tremendous courage to go on Larry King and to answer how he did.
I don't totally agree with everything he said - but then again - I have said things I regretted and have had to re-evaluate the statements I made in the past.
I think he is a Godly, Prayerful and Spirit filled man that loves God, his Family and people. God bless Joel Osteen!

So true.

[RevDWW]

What makes you think he's not right in his life??

That was a general statement and not point at JO in particular.......

[Joseph Miller]

Thad - I really thought he did a great job. Our brand on Christianity has alienated millions of people by our approach and condescending attitude. Joel just wants to reach people with the positive message of the GOOD NEWS!
I think most preachers - especially Pentecostal or Apostolic ones - FORGET that the Gospel means - GOOD NEWS!!!!
The past few "Apostolic" services I have been in - was all about WHAT WE ARE! WHAT WE BELIEVE! WE ARE BETTER THAN ANY OTHERS! WE HAVE THE RIGHT WAY!!!!!!!!!!! WE ARE NOT LIKE THE OTHERS!!!!!!!!!!!!
It is kinda like a group identified by Jesus!

To go from running camera's and directing TV Production to pastoring a HUGE Church to writing books and being plastered all over the world as a MEGA-PASTOR and having a demanding schedule and a family and pastoral responsibilities - is a HUGE STEP! Most could not stand up to the pressure.

I don't fault him for anything he said - I think he did great. I think it took tremendous courage to go on Larry King and to answer how he did.
I don't totally agree with everything he said - but then again - I have said things I regretted and have had to re-evaluate the statements I made in the past.
I think he is a Godly, Prayerful and Spirit filled man that loves God, his Family and people. God bless Joel Osteen!

When a man is not willing to stand up for what is plain in the Bible then he doesn't have enough backbone to be in any pulpit.

When the man is not preaching truth I can't say that he is reaching people with the good news. He may have the good news of love ya neighbor or pay ya bills or I have the secrets to get rich quick. But he doesn't preach the good news of the kingdom. If he is going to reach people he needs to do it with truth.

If your rich, love ya neighbor, and all the other stuff they preach but you haven't repented of your sin, been baptized in Jesus name for the remission of those sins and been filled with the Holy Ghost by the evidence of speaking in other tongues as the spirit gives the utterance then your not part of the Kingdom. I may make some people mad but truth is truth. Jesus posed the question, "What would it profit a man if he gained the whole world yet lost his soul". I am not against prosperity or loving ya neighbors, but before we focus on that lets get salvation right.

Don't get the cart before the horse.

[ThePastorsCoach]

When a man is not willing to stand up for what is plain in the Bible then he doesn't have enough backbone to be in any pulpit.

When the man is not preaching truth I can't say that he is reaching people with the good news. He may have the good news of love ya neighbor or pay ya bills or I have the secrets to get rich quick. But he doesn't preach the good news of the kingdom. If he is going to reach people he needs to do it with truth.

If your rich, love ya neighbor, and all the other stuff they preach but you haven't repented of your sin, been baptized in Jesus name for the remission of those sins and been filled with the Holy Ghost by the evidence of speaking in other tongues as the spirit gives the utterance then your not part of the Kingdom. I may make some people mad but truth is truth. Jesus posed the question, "What would it profit a man if he gained the whole world yet lost his soul". I am not against prosperity or loving ya neighbors, but before we focus on that lets get salvation right.

Don't get the cart before the horse.

Oh sorry - you mean YOUR BRAND OF TRUTH!!!!!!!! I just keep forgetting that it has to be in YOUR POOL in YOUR LANGUAGE!!!!!!!!!!
Joel Osteen is doing an incredible job of bringing life, hope and help to millions. It is so easy to criticize from ................the cheap seats. You might be too high up in the bleachers to see the real action on the field!!! Some have lost sight of reality!!!!!!!!

[Joseph Miller]

Oh sorry - you mean YOUR BRAND OF TRUTH!!!!!!!! I just keep forgetting that it has to be in YOUR POOL in YOUR LANGUAGE!!!!!!!!!!
Joel Osteen is doing an incredible job of bringing life, hope and help to millions. It is so easy to criticize from ................the cheap seats. You might be too high up in the bleachers to see the real action on the field!!! Some have lost sight of reality!!!!!!!!


Brother there is only one "brand" of truth.

I don't believe Acts 2:38 is the only way to be saved because I am apostolic, I believe it is the only plan of salvation because that is what the Bible teaches. I can't attack JO or any other preach personally but I will stand up for truth. He may be a great guy, I don't doubt that. I believe he is, but being a great guy, loving God and even praying is not enough. Check out Acts 10, he was a guy that prayed down angels, but he still had to get bapitzed in Jesus name and receive the Holy Ghost.

[Joseph Miller]

Am I the only one here that believes this? Where is the rest?

[Jack Shephard]

Oh sorry - you mean YOUR BRAND OF TRUTH!!!!!!!! I just keep forgetting that it has to be in YOUR POOL in YOUR LANGUAGE!!!!!!!!!!
Joel Osteen is doing an incredible job of bringing life, hope and help to millions. It is so easy to criticize from ................the cheap seats. You might be too high up in the bleachers to see the real action on the field!!! Some have lost sight of reality!!!!!!!!

Bishop, I think that Joel deserves all the aclaim he gets. He seems like he is just as real in person as he does on tv. As you stated he has taken a large step from running the tv ministry to leading the whole shabang. I am with you AB, Joel is doing great. I also agree that Joseph is twisting some stuff around. I agree there is only one truth, Joseph is right there. But Joe you got the cart before the horse I think. You are saying that Joel has no backbone. It takes alot of backbone to stand up there and preach what you believe when not everyone else agrees. Joel is going with what he knows. You are doing to same. The difference is he is lifting people by telling them they have a backbone to stand tough in a tough world, but you are saying that the only leg that people have to stand on is the leg the Apostolic preachers tell them they have.

AB you hit the nail on the head when you said," Our brand on Christianity has alienated millions of people by our approach and condescending attitude. Joel just wants to reach people with the positive message of the GOOD NEWS!" The highlighted part is one of the truest statments every said on this whole site.

[Joseph Miller]

All he preaches is feel good sermons. When asked on national TV about issues he won't stand up and call sin sin. That is why I say that he has no backbone.

Also, there is only one truth and he don't preach it.

[MrsMcD]

All he preaches is feel good sermons. When asked on national TV about issues he won't stand up and call sin sin. That is why I say that he has no backbone.

Also, there is only one truth and he don't preach it.

I understand where you are coming from.

One thing I did appreciate about Joel is when he was saying that we as Christians are beaten down so much that he preaches messages of hope. I'm sorry to say but there aren't as many hope messages in our religion as there should be. I have heard way too many sermons about how we should be doing this and that or that we shouldn't be doing this or that. It is sad to leave church depressed. I bet his congregation never leaves depressed from his message. They probably feel uplifted and encouraged.

[ThePastorsCoach]

All he preaches is feel good sermons. When asked on national TV about issues he won't stand up and call sin sin. That is why I say that he has no backbone.

Also, there is only one truth and he don't preach it.

How many of his services have you ever been in? What you see on TV - (if you have a TV - hmmmmmmmm Interesting all these people that don't have TV and they watch Joel Osteen preaching!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ROLF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
is just a small portion of his service and his message. All of it is edited to reach the wider audience to bring hope to the masses.

I gotta go - but before I do - JESUS is the Truth! Not your doctrine or one scripture - you guys OD on Acts 2:38 and think that is all inclusive of TRUTH! This is material Cults are made out of!
Remember - JESUS is The Truth - not your theology, ideology, baptismal formula, organization, denomination or anything else.

If it ain't JESUS - it ain't TRUTH!

Joel Osteen and his father John Osteen before him - preach Jesus Christ and they include the name of Jesus in water baptism.

[chseeads]

How many of his services have you ever been in? What you see on TV - (if you have a TV - hmmmmmmmm Interesting all these people that don't have TV and they watch Joel Osteen preaching!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ROLF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
is just a small portion of his service and his message. All of it is edited to reach the wider audience to bring hope to the masses.


I didn't know there was much hope to be had without the hope of salvation.

The plain ol' Gospel message is not good enough to be put before the masses and it won't reach them?

[Ferd]

I saw a show on TV about how the baptist thing Joel is selling a watered down gospel of prosperity without any attempt at the expense of the Gospel...

that was from a Baptist perspective.

[Joseph Miller]

How many of his services have you ever been in? What you see on TV - (if you have a TV - hmmmmmmmm Interesting all these people that don't have TV and they watch Joel Osteen preaching!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ROLF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
is just a small portion of his service and his message. All of it is edited to reach the wider audience to bring hope to the masses.

I gotta go - but before I do - JESUS is the Truth! Not your doctrine or one scripture - you guys OD on Acts 2:38 and think that is all inclusive of TRUTH! This is material Cults are made out of!
Remember - JESUS is The Truth - not your theology, ideology, baptismal formula, organization, denomination or anything else.

If it ain't JESUS - it ain't TRUTH!

Joel Osteen and his father John Osteen before him - preach Jesus Christ and they include the name of Jesus in water baptism.


So your telling me that JO preaching that you must be baptized in Jesus name?

[MrsMcD]

I saw a show on TV about how the baptist thing Joel is selling a watered down gospel of prosperity without any attempt at the expense of the Gospel...

that was from a Baptist perspective.

I believe you. I heard the president of the Southern Baptist Convention say something similar to this one service.

[ReformedDave]

Joel Osteen is doing an incredible job of bringing life, hope and help to millions.

Really? How do you know this?

[bishoph]

To hear the 'good news' of the gospel one must understand their 'badness' and helplessness with Christ first. The is the doctrine of sin and salvation. BTW, where does the Bible state that the Gospel is the ONLY thing to be preached? Seems like Christ and the apostle did otherwise.

It's interesting how you take 2 Cor: 3:6 out of context. Paul is in no way degrading the law or it's importance. In fact he states it because of our sin that the law kills us. It show us our need of a savior and for the saint it has much to do with practical sanctification.

I do agree that JO preaches nothing and what he has is a gospel without the punishment of the law and in fact it makes the gospel meaningless.

While I understand where you are coming from, I disagree somewhat. It is the good news of the Gospel that reveals the disparity of mankind. The preaching of Christ (Good News) is what brings an individual to the realization of their need for him. My assertion that doctrine is not to be preached comes from two things. First the absence of of any command to preach "doctrine" in scripture while their are repeated commands to preach the Gospel. Secondly at least 2/3 of the references to preaching in the NT either directly or indirectly have to do with the Gospel.

I also would challenge you to show me where the Apostle preached anything other than the Gospel. The epistles were letters of instruction (teaching) not sermons preached.

Overall I think you may have missed the whole point of my post which is balance. A church with no doctrine will be a worldly carnal church, and a church with only doctrine will be dry, dead, and legalistic.

[ReformedDave]

While I understand where you are coming from, I disagree somewhat. It is the good news of the Gospel that reveals the disparity of mankind. The preaching of Christ (Good News) is what brings an individual to the realization of their need for him. My assertion that doctrine is not to be preached comes from two things. First the absence of of any command to preach "doctrine" in scripture while their are repeated commands to preach the Gospel. Secondly at least 2/3 of the references to preaching in the NT either directly or indirectly have to do with the Gospel.

I also would challenge you to show me where the Apostle preached anything other than the Gospel. The epistles were letters of instruction (teaching) not sermons preached.

Overall I think you may have missed the whole point of my post which is balance. A church with no doctrine will be a worldly carnal church, and a church with only doctrine will be dry, dead, and legalistic.

Peter, in Acts 2, Peter boldly accused his listeners of killing Christ. BTW, why did Peter have them to repent????? Of what? Without a knowledge of sin repentance is meaningless. What did he use for Scripture? The Old Testament?

As far as to your challenge you yourself assert that only 2/3rds of the preaching in the NT has to do with the gospel. What about the other third???

Trust me. It is apparent that the majority that post here don't have much knowledge of basic doctrine.

[Thad]

I believe you. I heard the president of the Southern Baptist Convention say something similar to this one service.


wow! even the southern Baptist are saying that ???

[bishoph]

Peter, in Acts 2, Peter boldly accused his listeners of killing Christ. BTW, why did Peter have them to repent????? Of what? Without a knowledge of sin repentance is meaningless. What did he use for Scripture? The Old Testament?
The preaching of the Gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ and that application in the life of the hearers. Therefore revealing sin as exceeding sinful and presenting the answer to sin is the Gospel.

As far as to your challenge you yourself assert that only 2/3rds of the preaching in the NT has to do with the gospel. What about the other third???

The remaining references mainly refer to preaching the "word" and does not clarify what that constituted.

Trust me. It is apparent that the majority that post here don't have much knowledge of basic doctrine.

I agree with you wholeheartedly that there seems to be either a willful ignorance of sound doctrine by some on this forum, or a lack of foundation from those that have taught them. Either way it is sad.

[ReformedDave]

Bishoph, you said:"The preaching of the Gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ and that application in the life of the hearers. Therefore revealing sin as exceeding sinful and presenting the answer to sin is the Gospel."

I concur and agree. I remember a minister telling a story about being out in public and being asked by a new convert "Are you saved?" The minister replied "Saved from what?" and the young Christian couldn't respond.

[MrsMcD]

wow! even the southern Baptist are saying that ???

Yep, I was there when he said it. He is different than JO though because he preaches about hell and what will send folks to hell. He doesn't sugar coat any sin. He is the Baptist pastor of the church that made the movie "Facing the Giants." He was just recently elected the president of the Southern Baptist Convention.

[Truly Blessed]

I am all for preaching that lifts people up and encourages them to not only believe in Jesus Christ, but also believe in themselves and their personal potential. However, as I watched the Larry King interview with the Osteens, I couldn't help but hear an Elder's remark to me a while ago saying, "We don't need you to tell us what is wrong with us. We need you to preach messages that make us feel good about ourselves."

I am convinced that we are living in the "itching ears" generation prophesied of in Scripture. Beware of those who only want to tell you what you desire to hear and not what you need to hear!

[MrsMcD]

I am all for preaching that lifts people up and encourages them to not only believe in Jesus Christ, but also believe in themselves and their personal potential. However, as I watched the Larry King interview with the Osteens, I couldn't help but hear an Elder's remark to me a while ago saying, "We don't need you to tell us what is wrong with us. We need you to preach messages that make us feel good about ourselves."

I am convinced that we are living in the "itching ears" generation prophesied of in Scripture. Beware of those who only want to tell you what you desire to hear and not what you need to hear!

Amen!

[Thad]

Yep, I was there when he said it. He is different than JO though because he preaches about hell and what will send folks to hell. He doesn't sugar coat any sin. He is the Baptist pastor of the church that made the movie "Facing the Giants." He was just recently elected the president of the Southern Baptist Convention.


I'm very aware that the southern Baptist are fundamentalist as far as preaching about a literal hell and sin, etc. Even Billy Graham preaches about it.

I think there is a balance. some are too seeker friendly now

[tamor]

Yep, I was there when he said it. He is different than JO though because he preaches about hell and what will send folks to hell. He doesn't sugar coat any sin. He is the Baptist pastor of the church that made the movie "Facing the Giants." He was just recently elected the president of the Southern Baptist Convention.

That's the way my mom's pastor is. He is a fiesty little man and he preaches about sin and hell. He hits his folks hard, but with love.

[Thad]

That's the way my mom's pastor is. He is a fiesty little man and he preaches about sin and hell. He hits his folks hard, but with love.

and what church background is that ?

[Ferd]

That's the way my mom's pastor is. He is a fiesty little man and he preaches about sin and hell. He hits his folks hard, but with love.

as opposed to joel who is the opposite of fiesty and he hits folks with love but to the casual observer every tell anyone about
the actual Gospel
what one ought to do to be saved (even to a baptist)
or the existance of hell...

[tamor]

and what church background is that ?

Southern Baptist

[Sandra]

I am very much involved with the Southern Baptist, God is stirring things up there.
I have been invited to do 5 more Womens Conferences for them next year, Pricscilla Shirver ( Tony Evans daughter) is the speaker.
They called and asked if healing was in my voice because they are getting emails that women were being healing while I was singing. They reminded me that they are Baptist and this type of thing has never happened.

[Ferd]

I hope they all get the Holy Ghost.

[tamor]

I am very much involved with the Southern Baptist, God is stirring things up there.
I have been invited to do 5 more Womens Conferences for them next year, Pricscilla Shirver ( Tony Evans daughter) is the speaker.
They called and asked if healing was in my voice because they are getting emails that women were being healing while I was singing. They reminded me that they are Baptist and this type of thing has never happened.

Amen! The healing power of Jesus!

[MrsMcD]

I am very much involved with the Southern Baptist, God is stirring things up there.
I have been invited to do 5 more Womens Conferences for them next year, Pricscilla Shirver ( Tony Evans daughter) is the speaker.
They called and asked if healing was in my voice because they are getting emails that women were being healing while I was singing. They reminded me that they are Baptist and this type of thing has never happened.

I love the Southern Baptist church that we attend on special occasions and off nights. Tony Evans speaks several times a year. I pray God stirs things up in my city. This church is progressive and they worship and sings songs like we do. They just need revelation and I believe God can give it to them!

[tamor]

I love the Southern Baptist church that we attend on special occasions and off nights. Tony Evans speaks several times a year. I pray God stirs things up in my city. This church is progressive and they worship and sings songs like we do. They just need revelation and I believe God can give it to them!

Amen!

[tamor]

as opposed to joel who is the opposite of fiesty and he hits folks with love but to the casual observer every tell anyone about
the actual Gospel
what one ought to do to be saved (even to a baptist)
or the existance of hell...

You got it, Ferd.

[Sandra]

I love the Southern Baptist church that we attend on special occasions and off nights. Tony Evans speaks several times a year. I pray God stirs things up in my city. This church is progressive and they worship and sings songs like we do. They just need revelation and I believe God can give it to them!

I will be singing at Tony Evans womens conference next July, he has also invited me to sing at his New Years eve service 2008. Matt hasn't confirmed that yet, we don't like booking that far in advance.

[Truly Blessed]

as opposed to joel who is the opposite of fiesty and he hits folks with love but to the casual observer every tell anyone about
the actual Gospel
what one ought to do to be saved (even to a baptist)
or the existance of hell...He did say that he believes in hell!

[chosenbyone]

Joel Osteen wavers, his Brother-in-Law doesn’t


This post is not meant as an attack on Joel Osteen, and if it comes across as this, my apologies in advance, and yes I have attended services at Lakewood Church.

Some time ago, my wife and I were tuned in to Texas Monthly Talks on KUHT (the local PBS station) as editor Evan Smith interviewed Lakewood Church pastor Joel Osteen who at the time was promoting his best-selling book (click here to download the interview).

Osteen looked uncomfortable at times especially when Smith’s questions were of a controversial nature. Osteen has a propensity to waver in the face of tough questions which have even tougher answers, tougher to those who are unable to appraise them.

Inevitably, Smith asked for Osteen’s take on so-called “gay marriage” (around on 7:40 on the mp3). If you can believe it, this is what transpired:

Smith: Let’s talk about gay marriage, for instance, because obviously the church played a very large role in driving the discussion over gar marriage. A lot of people of faith are opposed to it for moral reasons, and I wonder if your church or if you personally have talked on this subject or feel that the church ought to have a place in talking about, say that issue or abortion, another issue that has tended to divide people along religious lines.

Osteen: Yeah… You know it’s interesting Evan, I’m new at this, been doing it for 5 years. My dad was never political and we’ve just never been political. It’s just not in me, I’m just for everybody.

I know there’s right and there’s wrong and there’s people that are called to that and I know that church and certain leaders are called to take a stand on that, but you know what? I just have not…

Smith: You just soon not do that…

Osteen: No, I’m just for people

What God’s decree that marriage is between one man and woman as well as Jesus’ affirmation of said decree have to do with politics I do not know and I assure you neither does Osteen.

Of utmost interest was the fact that even though it’s not in him to ‘be political’ his response to Smith’s inquiry was incredibly political.

I do not know what Joel’s stance on homosexuality is, but according to this article, his brother-in-law’s (Rev. Gary Simons) church, High Point Church in Dallas, is taking heat from the homosexual community for refusing to hold funeral services for a deceased gay man. On the grounds that the funeral as the family wants to do it allegedly promotes the homosexual lifestyle,

“It became clear to the church staff that the family was requesting an openly homosexual service at High Point Church – which is not our policy to allow,” said the church’s statement.

“Allowing an openly homosexual service in our facility would condone homosexuality as a lifestyle,” read the statement. “We could not allow the homosexual lifestyle to be celebrated, flaunted or glorified in our church facility. We could not put inappropriate images on our screens or subject our members and possibly even our children to an openly homosexual service. We cannot condone what the Word of God condemns.”

The last sentence is very interesting, in light of Osteen’s comments above, where he practically equates homosexuality (in the context of so-called “gay marriage”) and its acceptance/rejection as a political exercise.

I wonder if Reverend Simons has discussed with Joel Osteen, his famous brother-in-law, the serious lapse in judgment which he displays on local as well as national television (no, I am not referring to his sermons).

[Joseph Miller]

Joel Osteen wavers, his Brother-in-Law doesn’t


This post is not meant as an attack on Joel Osteen, and if it comes across as this, my apologies in advance, and yes I have attended services at Lakewood Church.

Some time ago, my wife and I were tuned in to Texas Monthly Talks on KUHT (the local PBS station) as editor Evan Smith interviewed Lakewood Church pastor Joel Osteen who at the time was promoting his best-selling book (click here to download the interview).

Osteen looked uncomfortable at times especially when Smith’s questions were of a controversial nature. Osteen has a propensity to waver in the face of tough questions which have even tougher answers, tougher to those who are unable to appraise them.

Inevitably, Smith asked for Osteen’s take on so-called “gay marriage” (around on 7:40 on the mp3). If you can believe it, this is what transpired:

Smith: Let’s talk about gay marriage, for instance, because obviously the church played a very large role in driving the discussion over gar marriage. A lot of people of faith are opposed to it for moral reasons, and I wonder if your church or if you personally have talked on this subject or feel that the church ought to have a place in talking about, say that issue or abortion, another issue that has tended to divide people along religious lines.

Osteen: Yeah… You know it’s interesting Evan, I’m new at this, been doing it for 5 years. My dad was never political and we’ve just never been political. It’s just not in me, I’m just for everybody.

I know there’s right and there’s wrong and there’s people that are called to that and I know that church and certain leaders are called to take a stand on that, but you know what? I just have not…

Smith: You just soon not do that…

Osteen: No, I’m just for people

What God’s decree that marriage is between one man and woman as well as Jesus’ affirmation of said decree have to do with politics I do not know and I assure you neither does Osteen.

Of utmost interest was the fact that even though it’s not in him to ‘be political’ his response to Smith’s inquiry was incredibly political.

I do not know what Joel’s stance on homosexuality is, but according to this article, his brother-in-law’s (Rev. Gary Simons) church, High Point Church in Dallas, is taking heat from the homosexual community for refusing to hold funeral services for a deceased gay man. On the grounds that the funeral as the family wants to do it allegedly promotes the homosexual lifestyle,

“It became clear to the church staff that the family was requesting an openly homosexual service at High Point Church – which is not our policy to allow,” said the church’s statement.

“Allowing an openly homosexual service in our facility would condone homosexuality as a lifestyle,” read the statement. “We could not allow the homosexual lifestyle to be celebrated, flaunted or glorified in our church facility. We could not put inappropriate images on our screens or subject our members and possibly even our children to an openly homosexual service. We cannot condone what the Word of God condemns.”

The last sentence is very interesting, in light of Osteen’s comments above, where he practically equates homosexuality (in the context of so-called “gay marriage”) and its acceptance/rejection as a political exercise.

I wonder if Reverend Simons has discussed with Joel Osteen, his famous brother-in-law, the serious lapse in judgment which he displays on local as well as national television (no, I am not referring to his sermons).

WOW

[HeavenlyOne]

Am I the only one here that believes this? Where is the rest?

I'm here!

[crakjak]

Joel Osteen wavers, his Brother-in-Law doesn’t


This post is not meant as an attack on Joel Osteen, and if it comes across as this, my apologies in advance, and yes I have attended services at Lakewood Church.

Some time ago, my wife and I were tuned in to Texas Monthly Talks on KUHT (the local PBS station) as editor Evan Smith interviewed Lakewood Church pastor Joel Osteen who at the time was promoting his best-selling book (click here to download the interview).

Osteen looked uncomfortable at times especially when Smith’s questions were of a controversial nature. Osteen has a propensity to waver in the face of tough questions which have even tougher answers, tougher to those who are unable to appraise them.

Inevitably, Smith asked for Osteen’s take on so-called “gay marriage” (around on 7:40 on the mp3). If you can believe it, this is what transpired:

Smith: Let’s talk about gay marriage, for instance, because obviously the church played a very large role in driving the discussion over gar marriage. A lot of people of faith are opposed to it for moral reasons, and I wonder if your church or if you personally have talked on this subject or feel that the church ought to have a place in talking about, say that issue or abortion, another issue that has tended to divide people along religious lines.

Osteen: Yeah… You know it’s interesting Evan, I’m new at this, been doing it for 5 years. My dad was never political and we’ve just never been political. It’s just not in me, I’m just for everybody.

I know there’s right and there’s wrong and there’s people that are called to that and I know that church and certain leaders are called to take a stand on that, but you know what? I just have not…

Smith: You just soon not do that…

Osteen: No, I’m just for people

What God’s decree that marriage is between one man and woman as well as Jesus’ affirmation of said decree have to do with politics I do not know and I assure you neither does Osteen.

Of utmost interest was the fact that even though it’s not in him to ‘be political’ his response to Smith’s inquiry was incredibly political.

I do not know what Joel’s stance on homosexuality is, but according to this article, his brother-in-law’s (Rev. Gary Simons) church, High Point Church in Dallas, is taking heat from the homosexual community for refusing to hold funeral services for a deceased gay man. On the grounds that the funeral as the family wants to do it allegedly promotes the homosexual lifestyle,

“It became clear to the church staff that the family was requesting an openly homosexual service at High Point Church – which is not our policy to allow,” said the church’s statement.

“Allowing an openly homosexual service in our facility would condone homosexuality as a lifestyle,” read the statement. “We could not allow the homosexual lifestyle to be celebrated, flaunted or glorified in our church facility. We could not put inappropriate images on our screens or subject our members and possibly even our children to an openly homosexual service. We cannot condone what the Word of God condemns.”

The last sentence is very interesting, in light of Osteen’s comments above, where he practically equates homosexuality (in the context of so-called “gay marriage”) and its acceptance/rejection as a political exercise.

I wonder if Reverend Simons has discussed with Joel Osteen, his famous brother-in-law, the serious lapse in judgment which he displays on local as well as national television (no, I am not referring to his sermons).

A man of his exposure could become a lightning rod for the political forces in our culture, and completely distract him from his primary purpose. The media and the gay activist are highly developed in launching their battles. I doubt the Joel would allow the homosexual funeral anymore than his brother in law.
I don't know if Joel is an honorable man or not, but I do know that the media would have used his comments for their purposes. So, lighten up on the guy, he preaches a positive message that carries the potential for folks to find faith in Christ. No big scandals to date.

BTW how many Christians pray for men like JO, instead of just waited like vultures for them to fall?

[chosenbyone]

A man of his exposure could become a lightning rod for the political forces in our culture, and completely distract him from his primary purpose. The media and the gay activist are highly developed in launching their battles. I doubt the Joel would allow the homosexual funeral anymore than his brother in law.
I don't know if Joel is an honorable man or not, but I do know that the media would have used his comments for their purposes. So, lighten up on the guy, he preaches a positive message that carries the potential for folks to find faith in Christ. No big scandals to date.

BTW how many Christians pray for men like JO, instead of just waited like vultures for them to fall?

Brother,

I am certainly not waiting like a vulture to see Osteen fall! All I did was post what the man said during an interview and to bring to the forefront that he doesn't take a stand against any type of sin.

I knew men who were steeped in homosexuality that would attend his services after a night of unspeakable acts and walk away without any sense of conviction. I have read your beliefs that after the crucification of Jesus that all men were saved, which was the teaching Universalism.

I don't share your beliefs, because I knew what God had delivered me out of and what he has shown me through my own life experiences. I don't for one minute believe it was the will of God for anyone to be enslaved with homosexuality or any other sin that would rob people of being free on this earth through the blood of Jesus.

Joel Osteen isn't bringing a message of salvation and deliverance to those that are lost, but another gospel that leaves them in a state of deception without any hope of eternity with God.

[crakjak]

Brother,

I am certainly not waiting like a vulture to see Osteen fall! All I did was post what the man said during an interview and to bring to the forefront that he doesn't take a stand against any type of sin.

I knew men who were steeped in homosexuality that would attend his services after a night of unspeakable acts and walk away without any sense of conviction. I have read your beliefs that after the crucification of Jesus that all men were saved, which was the teaching Universalism.

I don't share your beliefs, because I knew what God had delivered me out of and what he has shown me through my own life experiences. I don't for one minute believe it was the will of God for anyone to be enslaved with homosexuality or any other sin that robs people of being free on this earth through the blood of Jesus.

Joel Osteen isn't bringing a message of salvation and deliverance to those that are lost, but another gospel that leaves them in their joyless existence that will lead them to an eternity without God.

Your testimony is a great story of the grace of God, and just as God called you from sin, He will call them as well. Each in his own time, some come with a little nudge, some have to be saved; "howbeit by fire".

It is possible that the men you speak of are not seeking for God and therefore not finding Him at this time, it does not mean that they will not turn to God. Sometimes folks cup have to get full of the wicked life before they turn to God. I would not lay that responsibility on JO necessarily, his message does call many people to God. Too often we expect the preacher to be God, instead he is called (according to Paul) to bring the ministry of reconciliation. And that ministry is simply, that Jesus' sacrifice has paid for their sins, they have been reconciled to God, so why continue in sin.

BTW, just because I believe the scriptures teach that all men will eventually surrender to God, doesn't sin will not be dealt with. All the works of the devil will be completely destroyed, and homosexuality is a work of the devil.

[Coffee99]

I understand where you are coming from.

One thing I did appreciate about Joel is when he was saying that we as Christians are beaten down so much that he preaches messages of hope. I'm sorry to say but there aren't as many hope messages in our religion as there should be. I have heard way too many sermons about how we should be doing this and that or that we shouldn't be doing this or that. It is sad to leave church depressed. I bet his congregation never leaves depressed from his message. They probably feel uplifted and encouraged.

You are so right MrsMcD. When I used to attend, I used to leave thinking I would never see God because I couldn't manage, as hard as I tried, to be perfect. I used to think that it would be best if God just struck me dead during alter call because that was the only chance I would have. I saw very little real hope offered in sermons and the running line was "if you feel good about your relationship with God, then you are cold and backsliding." No, not real hopeful.

[MrsMcD]

Joel Osteen wavers, his Brother-in-Law doesn’t


This post is not meant as an attack on Joel Osteen, and if it comes across as this, my apologies in advance, and yes I have attended services at Lakewood Church.

Some time ago, my wife and I were tuned in to Texas Monthly Talks on KUHT (the local PBS station) as editor Evan Smith interviewed Lakewood Church pastor Joel Osteen who at the time was promoting his best-selling book (click here to download the interview).

Osteen looked uncomfortable at times especially when Smith’s questions were of a controversial nature. Osteen has a propensity to waver in the face of tough questions which have even tougher answers, tougher to those who are unable to appraise them.

Inevitably, Smith asked for Osteen’s take on so-called “gay marriage” (around on 7:40 on the mp3). If you can believe it, this is what transpired:

Smith: Let’s talk about gay marriage, for instance, because obviously the church played a very large role in driving the discussion over gar marriage. A lot of people of faith are opposed to it for moral reasons, and I wonder if your church or if you personally have talked on this subject or feel that the church ought to have a place in talking about, say that issue or abortion, another issue that has tended to divide people along religious lines.

Osteen: Yeah… You know it’s interesting Evan, I’m new at this, been doing it for 5 years. My dad was never political and we’ve just never been political. It’s just not in me, I’m just for everybody.

I know there’s right and there’s wrong and there’s people that are called to that and I know that church and certain leaders are called to take a stand on that, but you know what? I just have not…

Smith: You just soon not do that…

Osteen: No, I’m just for people

What God’s decree that marriage is between one man and woman as well as Jesus’ affirmation of said decree have to do with politics I do not know and I assure you neither does Osteen.

Of utmost interest was the fact that even though it’s not in him to ‘be political’ his response to Smith’s inquiry was incredibly political.

I do not know what Joel’s stance on homosexuality is, but according to this article, his brother-in-law’s (Rev. Gary Simons) church, High Point Church in Dallas, is taking heat from the homosexual community for refusing to hold funeral services for a deceased gay man. On the grounds that the funeral as the family wants to do it allegedly promotes the homosexual lifestyle,

“It became clear to the church staff that the family was requesting an openly homosexual service at High Point Church – which is not our policy to allow,” said the church’s statement.

“Allowing an openly homosexual service in our facility would condone homosexuality as a lifestyle,” read the statement. “We could not allow the homosexual lifestyle to be celebrated, flaunted or glorified in our church facility. We could not put inappropriate images on our screens or subject our members and possibly even our children to an openly homosexual service. We cannot condone what the Word of God condemns.”

The last sentence is very interesting, in light of Osteen’s comments above, where he practically equates homosexuality (in the context of so-called “gay marriage”) and its acceptance/rejection as a political exercise.

I wonder if Reverend Simons has discussed with Joel Osteen, his famous brother-in-law, the serious lapse in judgment which he displays on local as well as national television (no, I am not referring to his sermons).

Did you watch the interview with JO? JO said that the media did not have all their information correct about his brother-in-law and the gay funeral. Evidently, the gay people wanted to come into his brother-in-law's church and take over the funeral. His brother-in-law wouldn't allow that. However, Joel said that his bil has had gay funerals. The media didn't portray what really transpired at his bil's church.

[SDG]

He still drives me batty!!!

[Ferd]

A man of his exposure could become a lightning rod for the political forces in our culture, and completely distract him from his primary purpose. The media and the gay activist are highly developed in launching their battles. I doubt the Joel would allow the homosexual funeral anymore than his brother in law.
I don't know if Joel is an honorable man or not, but I do know that the media would have used his comments for their purposes. So, lighten up on the guy, he preaches a positive message that carries the potential for folks to find faith in Christ. No big scandals to date.

BTW how many Christians pray for men like JO, instead of just waited like vultures for them to fall?

I dont know why. JO failing is a black eye on christianity and that is bad for all of us.

LOL! he doesnt even meet the Baptists standard of what the Gospel is!

[tamor]

I know there’s right and there’s wrong and there’s people that are called to that and I know that church and certain leaders are called to take a stand on that, but you know what? I just have not…


He made this comment a few different times on Larry King the other night. I guess my thing is--how can a pastor not be called to take a stand on right and wrong?

[MrsMcD]

He made this comment a few different times on Larry King the other night. I guess my thing is--how can a pastor not be called to take a stand on right and wrong?


What was he saying that he couldn't say was right or wrong?

[tamor]

What was he saying that he couldn't say was right or wrong?

Just different things that Larry would ask him about. Homosexuality, abortion, etc. He just kep making that comment about knowing there is right and wrong and some people taking a stand on it, but he wasn't called to do that. He said he is called to bring the good news and to encourage people.

I agree with that to a degree. I need to affirm my children. I need to let them know that they can make it in this world. I need to let them know they can achieve everything that God wants them to. But I also have to let them know that there are potholes in the road and teach them to avoid them.

[MrsMcD]

Just different things that Larry would ask him about. Homosexuality, abortion, etc. He just kep making that comment about knowing there is right and wrong and some people taking a stand on it, but he wasn't called to do that. He said he is called to bring the good news and to encourage people.

I agree with that to a degree. I need to affirm my children. I need to let them know that they can make it in this world. I need to let them know they can achieve everything that God wants them to. But I also have to let them know that there are potholes in the road and teach them to avoid them.

I guess he thinks he would loose his millions if he let folks know what is wrong. What a shame! We do need to be encouraged but we also need to know what will send us to hell. He is called to do that. As a pastor, I think it is his responsibility to lead folks to Christ. He is a great motivational speaker but as far as a pastor, he makes me want to scream. I didn't realize that he won't actually say something is wrong.

[Jesuswins]

I think what he said on the Larry King show is right on. It doesn't sound like to me that he is condoning the sins that these people are in. He's only pointing them in the right direction and letting God do the work. It's not up to us to clean them up, only to catch them (compel them to come).
We have ALL sinned. If the church called out everyones Lies, cheating, stealing, evil thoughts then the church would be empty. All sin is the same in the eyes of the Lord........ Right?

[tamor]

I guess he thinks he would loose his millions if he let folks know what is wrong. What a shame! We do need to be encouraged but we also need to know what will send us to hell. He is called to do that. As a pastor, I think it is his responsibility to lead folks to Christ. He is a great motivational speaker but as far as a pastor, he makes me want to scream. I didn't realize that he won't actually say something is wrong.

He is a great motivational speaker. I give him props for that. But you can only eat candy for so long without getting sick to your stomach. You gotta have some real food after a while.

[tamor]

I think what he said on the Larry King show is right on. It doesn't sound like to me that he is condoning the sins that these people are in. He's only pointing them in the right direction and letting God do the work. It's not up to us to clean them up, only to catch them (compel them to come).
We have ALL sinned. If the church called out everyones Lies, cheating, stealing, evil thoughts then the church would be empty. All sin is the same in the eyes of the Lord........ Right?

I don't think he condoned the sin either. But he would not say it is sin or that is wrong. He said it is not his calling to say that. Sin is WRONG. And I'm not talking about the church calling out everyones particular sin and attaching their name to it. But the church should stand up and say lying is sin, cheating is sin, stealing is sin, etc.

[MrsMcD]

I think what he said on the Larry King show is right on. It doesn't sound like to me that he is condoning the sins that these people are in. He's only pointing them in the right direction and letting God do the work. It's not up to us to clean them up, only to catch them (compel them to come).
We have ALL sinned. If the church called out everyones Lies, cheating, stealing, evil thoughts then the church would be empty. All sin is the same in the eyes of the Lord........ Right?

In this day, some people don't think anything is a sin.

[crakjak]

I guess he thinks he would loose his millions if he let folks know what is wrong. What a shame! We do need to be encouraged but we also need to know what will send us to hell. He is called to do that. As a pastor, I think it is his responsibility to lead folks to Christ. He is a great motivational speaker but as far as a pastor, he makes me want to scream. I didn't realize that he won't actually say something is wrong.

I can't imagine a church of that size not having layers of pastors to minister to folks at a more personal level. We have always talked about not gutting a fish before catching the fish, maybe this is that actually in action. It is easy to judge from a long way off, and not have all the context.

I'm not into personality cults, so if all the leadership Lakewood receives is what is seen on TV, then I would agree with you.

[MrsMcD]

I can't imagine a church of that size not having layers of pastors to minister to folks at a more personal level. We have always talked about not gutting a fish before catching the fish, maybe this is that actually in action. It is easy to judge from a long way off, and not have all the context.

I'm not into personality cults, so if all the leadership Lakewood receives is what is seen on TV, then I would agree with you.

I think it could also be like someone else pointed out, maybe all we see is the candy coated version on tv. He very well could be more straight forward about issues in his services but maybe we don't see that on tv.

[tamor]

I think it could also be like someone else pointed out, maybe all we see is the candy coated version on tv. He very well could be more straight forward about issues in his services but maybe we don't see that on tv.

Could be. But even if that's the case, it doesn't make me curious enough to want to check it out.

[crakjak]

In this day, some people don't think anything is a sin.

The fact that there is sin and wickedness in our world is not a revelation to anyone, anyone can rant and rave about all the evil. But we cannot back into righteousness, as in backing away from sin, we can only enter into God's righteousness thru the blood of Christ. We need the antidote preached not the disease. Faith comes by hearing, if we hear sin being glorified, as in how big and bad it is, folks have a sense that they cannot overcome. Well, there is a greater one, than sin and the devil in the house.

JMHO, this is more a response to this whole thread not just yours individually.

[MrsMcD]

Could be. But even if that's the case, it doesn't make me curious enough to want to check it out.

Me either...

I think we feel alike on this subject. LOL

[crakjak]

I think it could also be like someone else pointed out, maybe all we see is the candy coated version on tv. He very well could be more straight forward about issues in his services but maybe we don't see that on tv.

I hope that is true, but his messages are encouraging, and faith building in my opinion.

[tamor]

Me either...

I think we feel alike on this subject. LOL

:thumbsup

[Joseph Miller]

The fact that there is sin and wickedness in our world is not a revelation to anyone, anyone can rant and rave about all the evil. But we cannot back into righteousness, as in backing away from sin, we can only enter into God's righteousness thru the blood of Christ. We need the antidote preached not the disease. Faith comes by hearing, if we hear sin being glorified, as in how big and bad it is, folks have a sense that they cannot overcome. Well, there is a greater one, than sin and the devil in the house.

JMHO, this is more a response to this whole thread not just yours individually.

In our society that is impacted so much by the perversion of hollywood they don't really know what is right and what is wrong. That is why in America the gay lifestyle is seen as an equal alternate lifestyle. It is not viewed as immoral or wrong except by a minority. Because of the impact of hollywood there are less and less people getting married because they think it is ok to just live together.

I am all for preaching the blood. That is the only way anyone will have their sins washed away is to have the blood applied to their lives. At the same time, if we don't name what sin is then some won't realize that they need the blood. If they have no church background at all they may not think of things being wrong or immoral that to us it is common sense why it is wrong. If we think that everyone which comes into our church already understands all the things they are doing that are wrong the we are deceived. The church must name sin and take a strong stand against it while pointing the sinner to the old rugged cross as their only hope of escaping the curse of sin.

I am a very positive preacher. I don't like to preach down to people. I can preach on hell and never offend. I never preach people into hell, but I do warn them of hell. I think that if you will preach with the right attitude and with love then you can preach any subject and be stright forward without beating people down and you will get positive results.

[crakjak]

In our society that is impacted so much by the perversion of hollywood they don't really know what is right and what is wrong. That is why in America the gay lifestyle is seen as an equal alternate lifestyle. It is not viewed as immoral or wrong except by a minority. Because of the impact of hollywood there are less and less people getting married because they think it is ok to just live together.

I am all for preaching the blood. That is the only way anyone will have their sins washed away is to have the blood applied to their lives. At the same time, if we don't name what sin is then some won't realize that they need the blood. If they have no church background at all they may not think of things being wrong or immoral that to us it is common sense why it is wrong. If we think that everyone which comes into our church already understands all the things they are doing that are wrong the we are deceived. The church must name sin and take a strong stand against it while pointing the sinner to the old rugged cross as their only hope of escaping the curse of sin.

I am a very positive preacher. I don't like to preach down to people. I can preach on hell and never offend. I never preach people into hell, but I do warn them of hell. I think that if you will preach with the right attitude and with love then you can preach any subject and be stright forward without beating people down and you will get positive results.

I understand what you are saying and we are not far apart. What I am suggesting is that Lakewood Church has that teaching concerning sin, but that the TV presentation is just the hook and bait. I really don't know if that is true or not. I don't think that railing against every sin in the book on international TV is the most effective use of the media. Paul did not do that on Mars Hill, maybe TV is our Mars Hill. We need to be wise a serpents and harmless as doves.

I like your post, it certainly reflects balance.

[Ferd]

honestly this guy is watered down baptist. what do I care?

give me a PCI guy any day over that.

[HeavenlyOne]

In our society that is impacted so much by the perversion of hollywood they don't really know what is right and what is wrong. That is why in America the gay lifestyle is seen as an equal alternate lifestyle. It is not viewed as immoral or wrong except by a minority. Because of the impact of hollywood there are less and less people getting married because they think it is ok to just live together.

I am all for preaching the blood. That is the only way anyone will have their sins washed away is to have the blood applied to their lives. At the same time, if we don't name what sin is then some won't realize that they need the blood. If they have no church background at all they may not think of things being wrong or immoral that to us it is common sense why it is wrong. If we think that everyone which comes into our church already understands all the things they are doing that are wrong the we are deceived. The church must name sin and take a strong stand against it while pointing the sinner to the old rugged cross as their only hope of escaping the curse of sin.

I am a very positive preacher. I don't like to preach down to people. I can preach on hell and never offend. I never preach people into hell, but I do warn them of hell. I think that if you will preach with the right attitude and with love then you can preach any subject and be stright forward without beating people down and you will get positive results.

Just want to say that I've heard Bro. Miller preach on a few occasions and I loved him each time!

And those of you who know me, I'm no saint! LOL!