View Full Version : Website Questions Jakes/Dr Phil Connection
SecretWarrior
10-18-2007, 11:33 AM
http://gcmwatch.wordpress.com/2007/10/18/t...g-with-dr-phil/
Reposition Yourself urges the title of TD Jakes’ newest book. The Dallas celebrity bishop and media figure may be taking his own advice as he swapped show appearances with Dr. Phil (McGraw) in late September.
Apparently, this budding collaboration between the two media giants began when Jakes first interviewed Dr. Phil on TBN in early September (ratings month). Dr. Phil’s TBN appearance with Jakes was on the subject of divorce and relationships. Our guess is that Jakes wanted to talk about, but not talk about the Juanita Bynum-Wesley Weeks Bynum-Paula White-Randy White multiple fisascos. After all, both of his “spiritual daughters” were making a mockery of Christian ministry and marriage. Perhaps, Dr. Phil’s expertise would make the disccusion professional and not necessarily religious. Read Bishop Jakes’ blog entry praising Dr. Phil’s opinions (yes, he has a blog now).
Thus, this seems to be a case of you come on my show, I’ll come on yours. Case closed. Right?
Not so fast.
A reader, who wished to remain anonymous, emailed GCM Watch about Bishop Jake’s appearance on the show. The individual was concerned that this was signaling a suttle turning or “repositioning” in Bishop Jakes theology because of Dr. Phil’s beliefs on homosexuality. Is there something beyond just the reciprocal guesting? As a Christian, is Bishop Jakes aware of Dr. Phil’s open endorsement of homosexuality as natural? What about this statement posted on Dr. Phil’s website?:
Christine: My 22-year-old daughter is in a relationship with a woman. I don’t believe she is a lesbian. Could this be a form of rebellion and a result of getting in with the “wrong” crowd? Can homosexuality be learned and unlearned?
Dr. Phil: Homosexuality is not a learned behavior. A sexual orientation is inherited; you are wired that way. Certainly some people will experiment with a gay lifestyle, and a gay person might experiment with a heterosexual one. If she is really gay, she will find a place in that life and in that community. The important thing is that you just love her through that. What difference does it make if she is gay? Accept her, support her and do not be judgmental. It is difficult enough for her to live openly and honestly in this society; don’t put your judgment on top of that.
So Dr. Phil is 100% sure that homosexuality is inherited. Inherited from who and how? And his expert opinion is just to support and accept? For someone who has built a show around “getting real”, Dr. Phil’s beliefs about homosexuality are as about as real as a McDonald’s on planet Jupiter. Even though the evidence is quite the opposite, Dr. Phil’s beliefs per se are not the issue of this post. Bishop Jake’s is. Bishop Jakes alludes to Dr. Phil’s closet Christianity, but doesn’t come right out and say it. If Dr. Phil is a professing Christian, that makes his remarks about homosexuality even the more alarming. However, the problem with Bishop Jakes is that he has a confusing record on the homosexuality issue. He sounds, at times tight lipped, at other times he sounds mildly sympathethic. Sometimes, he abstains from saying anything at all and sometimes he sounds just plain ignorant. That’s hard to accept from a man who has written 30 of the most celebrated Christian relational books on the market.
In March 2001, I was at the Potters House where I saw something that impacted me tremendously. Bishop Jakes became physically angry at the response of a crowd of men gathered to hear his fatherly wisdom. He was talking about how some gay men are broken because they have had sexually abusive relationships. Jakes explained that some of them don’t know how to have a healthy relationship with another man. He said something else that was a tad vulgar, but I won’t mention it here. That remark elicted sparodic laughter from the men. But from his reaction, it was clear he didn’t intend for it to be humorous. He rebuked the men sharply, telling them they had “little boy” attitudes. He blamed high death rates from AIDS on their attitudes. I was both shocked and pleased. Shocked that the men didn’t see his seriousness on the matter and pleased that he didn’t let them get away with it.
Is Bishop Jakes repositioning his thinking?
TD Jakes made his fortune preaching as if he had some sort of intuitive reading on the human condition. But oddly, as he has risen in popularity, his statements about homosexuality are less defined.
Some believe this is because one of his twin sons is gay. The young man was spotted at a black gay club in Atlanta during the popular 2006 MegaFest. One of the more recurrent search questions bringing people to GCM Watch is “TD Jakes’ gay son”, so there is considerable talk already out there. Reportedly, the young man has already told his father he is gay. If this is the case, as the reader pointed out to me, TD Jakes is repositioning himself by linking with Dr. Phil’s dangerous ideology. Would Dr. Phil tell TD Jakes the same thing he told “Christine”? Your son’s homosexuality is inherited and immutable, so just accept it and support him. Would Dr. Phil tell TD Jakes that? And would TD Jakes accept it as truth?
I feel for any parent faced with dealing with their child’s sins. But the answer is not to align yourself with people who espouse beliefs contrary to the scripture. We reported to you how one Atlanta pastor completely turned away from what he had previously believed in the scripture because his son was homosexual. Will TD Jakes be caught in that same trap by his relationship with Dr. Phil?
Additional Reading:
Thanks for the Tip/Story !
Seems like there was a discussion on this a few months back here on AFF ?
I've never heard of this site - looks like others are asking the same questions that others were asking here
Dr. Phil: Homosexuality is not a learned behavior. A sexual orientation is inherited; you are wired that way. Certainly some people will experiment with a gay lifestyle, and a gay person might experiment with a heterosexual one. If she is really gay, she will find a place in that life and in that community. The important thing is that you just love her through that. What difference does it make if she is gay? Accept her, support her and do not be judgmental. It is difficult enough for her to live openly and honestly in this society; don’t put your judgment on top of that.
It would be interesting to know what Jakes Thinks of this comment by Dr Phil ? Just curious
revrandy
10-18-2007, 12:24 PM
I think that profit (and I like Jakes) makes for strange bedfellows...
I think that profit (and I like Jakes) makes for strange bedfellows...
Randy are you implying that this is simply a money venture?
Do you think they are doing this while at odds with their beliefs or do you think one could not join together in this manner w/o agreeing ??
Sandra
10-18-2007, 01:27 PM
I think that profit (and I like Jakes) makes for strange bedfellows...
Bishop Jakes is a multi-millionare, he doesn't need another deal.
If Dr. Phil invited me I would go on and talk about New Destiny for Children.
dizzyde
10-18-2007, 01:39 PM
Bishop Jakes is a multi-millionare, he doesn't need another deal.
If Dr. Phil invited me I would go on and talk about New Destiny for Children.
OK, I'm having a der-de-der moment, I just realized who you are! I love your voice, have since way back in the day (meaning when I was much younger than I am now)!
ThePastorsCoach
10-18-2007, 08:34 PM
I just spent four days with Bishop Jakes and I can tell you guys - you are wrong. He does not condone homosexuality. You guys want to act like there has never been any among the Apostolics and I could write a book about some of the biggest names in Pentecost that were caught and disgraced. It is an absolute miracle that it was not on the front page of the PAPER when some were caught.
Why do you always condemn everyone else when Bible School Presidents and boards let it go on for many years and did NOTHING to stop it. These were men on the General Board, some on the platform at almost every conference and especially GC and musicians and singers from all over. So don't jump on Bishop Jakes like - he condones it! MY GOD - Look at what you all put up with for years and did not do ONE THING to stop it.
It is not just in the US - but in some other nations - it is rampant among the ministry. many of the missionaries have been appalled when they get to some nations as the men preachers are so effeminate!
Don't start dishing it out if you can't take the heat of judging your own house..
You are wrong about Bishop Jakes. Flat out WRONG!
I just spent four days with Bishop Jakes and I can tell you guys - you are wrong. He does not condone homosexuality. You guys want to act like there has never been any among the Apostolics and I could write a book about some of the biggest names in Pentecost that were caught and disgraced. It is an absolute miracle that it was not on the front page of the PAPER when some were caught.
Why do you always condemn everyone else when Bible School Presidents and boards let it go on for many years and did NOTHING to stop it. These were men on the General Board, some on the platform at almost every conference and especially GC and musicians and singers from all over. So don't jump on Bishop Jakes like - he condones it! MY GOD - Look at what you all put up with for years and did not do ONE THING to stop it.
It is not just in the US - but in some other nations - it is rampant among the ministry. many of the missionaries have been appalled when they get to some nations as the men preachers are so effeminate!
Don't start dishing it out if you can't take the heat of judging your own house..
You are wrong about Bishop Jakes. Flat out WRONG!
AB, I haven't read one post on here that agrees with whoever wrote this article. If I'm wrong , point it out to me.
in fact, i went and checked out the site- Its NOT a UPC or Oneness Pentecostal group that wrote this
ThePastorsCoach
10-18-2007, 08:55 PM
AB, I haven't read one post on here that agrees with whoever wrote this article. If I'm wrong , point it out to me.
in fact, i went and checked out the site- Its NOT a UPC or Oneness Pentecostal group that wrote this
OK - so what should I do? It is printed here as news and comment for Apostolics and OP's to say something about. I can delete my post if need be - what do you think?
ThePastorsCoach
10-18-2007, 09:00 PM
Thad - it just makes my blood boil the double standard and that has been my problem with it all along. They want to get on here and say - you have to Repent, Be baptized in Jesus name and be filled with Holy Ghost and speak in tongues to be saved. WELL - BISHOP JAKES HAS AND DOES! DUH!!!!!!!!!!! (not to you personally Thad) but that is not enough - he has to do all the rules and obey all the Little things and NO ONE IS COMPLETELY SURE OF - God have mercy - it is NEVER ENOUGH. I am just sick of seeing people that there lives were destroyed because some preacher on a EGO trip told them they were going to hell over some little rule he dreamed up and so they backslid and go to hell - their blood is gonna be on his hands!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You could not get TWO of these guys to agree totally on everything but they want to pick apart Bishop Jakes - thats my beef about it - regardless of who wrote it - it is on an APOSTOLIC FORUM!
OK - so what should I do? It is printed here as news and comment for Apostolics and OP's to say something about. I can delete my post if need be - what do you think?
No one is asking you to delete your post. Just asked you to point out where anyone mentioned the things you said.
actully,there has been little or next to nothing commented .
ThePastorsCoach
10-18-2007, 09:07 PM
No one is asking you to delete your post. Just asked you to point out where anyone mentioned the things you said.
actully,there has been little or next to nothing commented .
I know - I am too tired to even be on this tonight. Bless ya man - I am going to BED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thad - it just makes my blood boil the double standard and that has been my problem with it all along. They want to get on here and say - you have to Repent, Be baptized in Jesus name and be filled with Holy Ghost and speak in tongues to be saved. WELL - BISHOP JAKES HAS AND DOES! DUH!!!!!!!!!!! (not to you personally Thad) but that is not enough - he has to do all the rules and obey all the Little things and NO ONE IS COMPLETELY SURE OF - God have mercy - it is NEVER ENOUGH. I am just sick of seeing people that there lives were destroyed because some preacher on a EGO trip told them they were going to hell over some little rule he dreamed up and so they backslid and go to hell - their blood is gonna be on his hands!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You could not get TWO of these guys to agree totally on everything but they want to pick apart Bishop Jakes - thats my beef about it - regardless of who wrote it - it is on an APOSTOLIC FORUM!
i totally understand what you are saying AB but I want you to understand that the charismatics are devouring one another too. how do Iknow ????
Read their blogs. read their websites. that's where I'm reading this stuff- understand ?
I know - I am too tired to even be on this tonight. Bless ya man - I am going to BED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
lol !!Get some rest!! :pirate talk to You Later
Sandra
10-18-2007, 09:11 PM
I just spent four days with Bishop Jakes and I can tell you guys - you are wrong. He does not condone homosexuality. You guys want to act like there has never been any among the Apostolics and I could write a book about some of the biggest names in Pentecost that were caught and disgraced. It is an absolute miracle that it was not on the front page of the PAPER when some were caught.
Why do you always condemn everyone else when Bible School Presidents and boards let it go on for many years and did NOTHING to stop it. These were men on the General Board, some on the platform at almost every conference and especially GC and musicians and singers from all over. So don't jump on Bishop Jakes like - he condones it! MY GOD - Look at what you all put up with for years and did not do ONE THING to stop it.
It is not just in the US - but in some other nations - it is rampant among the ministry. many of the missionaries have been appalled when they get to some nations as the men preachers are so effeminate!
Don't start dishing it out if you can't take the heat of judging your own house..You are wrong about Bishop Jakes. Flat out WRONG!
Its all about JEALOUSY, Bishop Jakes has MAJOR FAVOR on his life.
It causes one to go hmmmmmmmmmm when one is always quick to judge another. You said it, I am SURE they have TONS of dirt in their house.
....It causes one to go hmmmmmmmmmm when one is always quick to judge another. You said it, I am SURE they have TONS of dirt in their house.hmmmmmmmmmm, sounds like you're judging...
ThePastorsCoach
10-19-2007, 10:15 AM
hmmmmmmmmmm, sounds like you're judging...
Well - the truth is - the fruit is on the tree for everyone to see - the UPC track record is sure not a clean one no matter how clean shaven!!!!!!
Well - the truth is - the fruit is on the tree for everyone to see - the UPC track record is sure not a clean one no matter how clean shaven!!!!!! ...nor does any other organized group. In fact, if we group non-denom pentecostals together, they have one of dirtiest track records out there (outside of Catholic priests, perhaps...)
ThePastorsCoach
10-19-2007, 10:39 AM
...nor does any other organized group. In fact, if we group non-denom pentecostals together, they have one of dirtiest track records out there (outside of Catholic priests, perhaps...)
Pot calling the kettle black!
Pot calling the kettle black!
:nah
Joseph
10-19-2007, 10:56 AM
There is enough trash to go around for all, Apostolic, Charismatic, or other. Sin is an "equal Opportunity Destroyer".
As R Mullings says..., "People are pitiful...
{{{{{ YIKES}}}}}
I just read some of the Comments on this article - they are VERY Anti Oneness and even condemn Jakes for his Doctrine
Steadfast
10-20-2007, 09:54 AM
Well - the truth is - the fruit is on the tree for everyone to see - the UPC track record is sure not a clean one no matter how clean shaven!!!!!!
Amazing. Just saw this and my first thought was "Great, here we go again." Someone posts something about Jakes (or anybody else of the charismatic ilk) and it's virtually commented on by nobody... but that's enough for AB to rip on the UPC when nothing was said by the UPC, about the UPC or on behalf of the UPC.
It's the oft repeated... 'If you only knew what I know' and 'The UPC has issues that I know about...' and 'You're just jealous because...'; because of WHAT? Why, oh, why does it bother you AB that some of us (both UPC and non-UPC) stayed true to the doctrine and disciplines of the heart as it pertains to modesty.
Granted, you didn't stay in a conservative camp. Go on with your life. Stop taking swipes at those who did. Your ranting here against the UPC was uncalled for as this is an APOSTOLIC forum (NOT a UPC forum) on which every flavor of Apostolic posts.
So you don't buy into every camp of Apostolics (UPC in particularly)... fine. But what you do is akin to me sitting around waiting and watching for things about Bynum, Weeks, Hinn, Paula and Randy and Paulk (or any that reach that charismatic edge closer to your views) then rush to say, "Well, you think your so spiritual but...
AB is an opportunist who wants publicity and a good beating would help.
You don't know what I know; AB beats his wife, too!
AB is a swindler of money and does it through spiritual sensationalism like blowing on people.
AB and his wife probably have some hanky panky going on in their marriage.
I know of men, like AB, that are having kids with their sister in laws, too!"
Is that remotely fair? NO! But it's modus operandi for you. And it's getting really old really quick.
I'm convinced that AB sits on the fringes of this forum looking for chances to slash away at the UPC, various disciplines of modesty and often truth itself.
AB, you are so predictable... in such an unnecessary way.
StillStanding
10-20-2007, 11:17 AM
Steadfast, I'm not making excuses for AB, but some folks just have a defensive attitude after being lambasted by ex-friends from their past.
Unfortunately, this leads to things being said from BOTH sides that just make me sick too! I tire of this kind of talk!
Steadfast, I'm not making excuses for AB, but some folks just have a defensive attitude after being lambasted by ex-friends from their past.
Unfortunately, this leads to things being said from BOTH sides that just make me sick too! I tire of this kind of talk!
care to elaborate on this ?
I think some of it's just human nature
philjones
10-20-2007, 12:29 PM
I just spent four days with Bishop Jakes and I can tell you guys - you are wrong. He does not condone homosexuality. You guys want to act like there has never been any among the Apostolics and I could write a book about some of the biggest names in Pentecost that were caught and disgraced. It is an absolute miracle that it was not on the front page of the PAPER when some were caught.
Why do you always condemn everyone else when Bible School Presidents and boards let it go on for many years and did NOTHING to stop it. These were men on the General Board, some on the platform at almost every conference and especially GC and musicians and singers from all over. So don't jump on Bishop Jakes like - he condones it! MY GOD - Look at what you all put up with for years and did not do ONE THING to stop it.
It is not just in the US - but in some other nations - it is rampant among the ministry. many of the missionaries have been appalled when they get to some nations as the men preachers are so effeminate!
Don't start dishing it out if you can't take the heat of judging your own house..
You are wrong about Bishop Jakes. Flat out WRONG!
AB,
You should change your screen name to "GreatDefender"... unless of course the person needing defense has remained consistent in their doctrine and their separation.
I guess you should actually have another one "GreatAttacker" for use with those who do not represent compromise in one area or another.:pirate
AB,
You should change your screen name to "GreatDefender"... unless of course the person needing defense has remained consistent in their doctrine and their separation.
I guess you should actually have another one "GreatAttacker" for use with those who do not represent compromise in one area or another.:pirate
What in the world are you talking about here Phil ??
philjones
10-20-2007, 12:35 PM
What in the world are you talking about here Phil ??
AB is the great defender of every fringe element of Apostolicism and the great attacker of everyone in the mainstream.
I had not seen the much more well written post of Steadfast when I posted what I did.
So Phil, what is your opinion of Bishop Jakes and Dr. Phil teaming up in ministry ?
philjones
10-20-2007, 01:33 PM
So Phil, what is your opinion of Bishop Jakes and Dr. Phil teaming up in ministry ?
I am not in a position to speak of the mindset of either man. I do NOT see it as profiting the kingdom in any way. The majority of Jakes messages are more self help than salvational so him taking his message to the masses on network prime time TV brings little if any increase to the Kingdom. Jakes, in my opinion, is a Joel Osteen with a little more fire and a bit more grit in his craw. Now what Jakes does in his church on a regular service may be different than what he puts on the tube but clips I have seen have been good but not evangelistic.
As for Dr. Phil... he is a worthless mouthpiece of secular humanism that offers nothing more than temporary carnal solutions to much deeper spiritual issues. He is just so much hot air.
Is that inflammatory enough or do I need to rework it to make it more accusative? :pirate
I am not in a position to speak of the mindset of either man. I do NOT see it as profiting the kingdom in any way. The majority of Jakes messages are more self help than salvational so him taking his message to the masses on network prime time TV brings little if any increase to the Kingdom. Jakes, in my opinion, is a Joel Osteen with a little more fire and a bit more grit in his craw. Now what Jakes does in his church on a regular service may be different than what he puts on the tube but clips I have seen have been good but not evangelistic.
As for Dr. Phil... he is a worthless mouthpiece of secular humanism that offers nothing more than temporary carnal solutions to much deeper spiritual issues. He is just so much hot air.
Is that inflammatory enough or do I need to rework it to make it more accusative? :pirate
That was pretty Rough language Phil. Dr Phil does claim to be a Christian so I don't know if he should be swept in the same catagory as the rest of the liberal media - No ?
philjones
10-20-2007, 01:42 PM
That was pretty Rough language Phil. Dr Phil does claim to be a Christian so I don't know if he should be swept in the same catagory as the rest of the liberal media - No ?
Thad,
Not really rough at all. Dr. Phil is a secular humanist regardless what badge he pins on his chest. I remember when I was a little boy and I got picked to be the cowboy I immediately pinned that shiny piece of tin to my cow skin vest. It made me feel good but I didn't have any legitimate claim to authority. The same is true of Dr. Phil. I have no problem with anything I have said... especially where Dr. Phil is concerned.:D:scoregood
Steve Epley
10-20-2007, 03:00 PM
"birds of a feather flock together." Jakes believes and promotes Jakes-Dr. Phil promotes Dr. Phil. They have a common goal promoting one's self.:runhills
"birds of a feather flock together." Jakes believes and promotes Jakes-Dr. Phil promotes Dr. Phil. They have a common goal promoting one's self.:runhills
That was just AWFUL!!
philjones
10-20-2007, 03:27 PM
That was just AWFUL!!
From the cheap seats it looks like it was awfully close to the center of the target as he shot the arrow in a straight line!:pirate:pirate
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