View Full Version : **RANDY PHILLPS** Belief Statement- Is it the same as his Fathers???
Belief Statement of Promiseland West - Pastor Randy Phillips
The Godhead
( I John 5:7; Matthew 28:19; 1 Tim 3:16) We believe in one God who is eternal in His existence, Triune in His manifestation, being both Father, Son and Holy Ghost AND that He is Sovereign and Absolute in His authority. We believe in the Father who is God Himself, Creator of the universe. {Gen 1:1; John 1:1} We believe that Jesus is the Son of God. (Col 2:9) He suffered, died, was buried, and rose from the dead for our total salvation (Luke 3:21-22; Philippians 2:5-11). We believe that Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.
No one comes to the Father except through Him (John 3:36; John 3:31-32; John 14:6).We believe that the blood of Jesus Christ atones for our sins and iniquity. It is through His shed blood that we are saved, healed and set free from bondage and the forces of darkness (Romans 5:9-11; Ephesians 1:7; Revelation 12:11). We believe in the Holy Spirit who is God indwelling, empowering and regenerating the believer. This Holy Spirit is called the Comforter. The Spirit of Truth (John 14:17, 14:26)·
Believer's Responsibility
We believe that every believer must have a personal and intimate relationship with Jesus Christ, for apart from Him we can do nothing. Each person has a ministry from God that no one else can fill. We are to instruct, teach, exhort, and admonish believers in the ways of God (John 15:1-5; Hebrews 13:5-6).We believe that every believer should live a life that is pleasing to God. We must walk upright and fully conscious that Jesus Christ dwells within us.
The Word of God
We believe that the Bible is the true infallible Word of God, which cleanses our souls. It holds the words of eternal life and the keys of the Kingdom of God. The Bible shows us God's principles and standards for living; and it is the food that sustains us in all circumstances (John 1:14; 2 Timothy 3: 16-17; 1 John 2:5-6).We believe that we are to wash and renew our minds daily by the Word of God. We must learn His ways and exchange our way of thinking for His. We are to be conformed to the Kingdom of God by the molding and shaping of His Hands (Romans 12:1-2; Ephesians 4:23-29; Philippians 4:8).
Justification by Faith
We believe in justification by faith. We believe that salvation is free and apart from any work of man is a result of the sovereign grace of God. (Eph 2:8-9, Gal 5:5, Rom 5:1)
Praise and Worship
We believe in worshipping the Lord in spirit, song, dance and with the raising of our hands. We believe that we are to praise and worship Him with our whole being (Psalms 150:1-6; John 4:24).We believe that in Godly living and the pursuit of a holy life should be the goal of every believer. (Heb 12:14, Phil 3:14)
Water Baptism and Holy Spirit Baptism
We believe that believers should be water baptized by immersion for the circumcision of our hearts. It is through baptism that we publicly identify with the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ (Romans 6:3-6; Colossians 2:11-14; Acts 2:38).We believe that all Christians need to partake of the communion elements which represent the Lord Jesus' body and blood. It is by participating in the Lord's Supper that we proclaim His death until His return (John 6:53-58; 1 Corinthians 11:23-30).We believe that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is available to every believer. We believe that Christians can pray directly to God using their prayer language. (Acts 2:4; Ephesians 5:18-21).
Gifts of the Holy Spirit
We believe in the manifestation of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. He ministers to His people through tongues, interpretation of tongues, prophecy; words of knowledge and wisdom, discerning of spirits, faith, working of miracles, and healing (Mark 16:15-18; Acts 5:16; 2 Corinthians 12:1-11).
Healing and Deliverance
We believe that it is God's will to heal and deliver His people today as He did in the days of the first Apostles. It is by the stripes of Jesus that we are healed, delivered and made whole. We have authority over sickness, disease, demons, curses, and every circumstance in life (Luke 10:19; 2 Corinthians 10:4-5; 1 Peter 2:24). "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature... And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover." (Mark 16:15-18)
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I see nothing that mentions HOW they baptize.
Is it an oversight on my part ???
I would appreciate some input on this.
long ago there were many who denied that there was any difference whatsoever in the son's belief's from the fathers.
does this belief prove otherwise??
your thoughts please
joyful
10-20-2007, 12:24 AM
You are right. It doesn't seem to specify how on this page, but on the main Promiseland site for KP's, it does. It says:
We believe that believers should be water baptized by immersion in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ for the circumcision of our hearts. It is through baptism that we publicly identify with the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ
Romans 6:3-6; Colossians 2:11-14; Acts 2:38
There is also a difference in wording regarding the Holy Ghost. This is from the main Promiseland site:
We believe in the Baptism of the Holy Spirit with the sign of speaking in other tongues. We believe that Christians must be filled daily by using the prayer language, but the evidence of the Holy Spirit's indwelling presence is a changed life
Acts 2:4; Ephesians 5:18-21
Also a difference between the above saying that Jesus is the Son of God and KP's site saying
We believe that Jesus is the Flesh of God.
Col 2:9
Joseph Miller
10-20-2007, 12:26 AM
We believe in one God who is eternal in His existence, Triune in His manifestation, being Father, Son and Holy Ghost AND that He is Sovereign and Absolute in His authority.
I Timothy 3:16, Ephesians 4:4 & Colossians 2:9 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=1+Timothy+3%3A16%2C+Ephesians+4%3A4+%26+Co lossians+2%3A9;&version=50;)
We believe in the Father who is God Himself, Creator of the universe.
Gen 1:1; John 1:1 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=Gen+1%3A1%3B+John+1%3A1;&version=50;)
We believe that Jesus is the Flesh of God.
Col 2:9 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=Col+2%3A9;&version=50;)
We believe that Jesus suffered, died, was buried, and rose from the dead for our total salvation
Luke 3:21-22; Philippians 2:5-11 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=Luke+3%3A21-22%3B+Philippians+2%3A5-11;&version=50;)
We believe that Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Him
John 3:36; John 3:31-32; John 14:6 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=John+3%3A36%3B+John+3%3A31-32%3B+John+14%3A6;&version=50;)
We believe in the Holy Spirit who is God indwelling, empowering and regenerating the believer. This Holy Spirit is called the Comforter. The Spirit of Truth
John 14:17, 14:26 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=John+14%3A17%2C+14%3A26;&version=50;)
We believe that the blood of Jesus Christ atones for our sins and iniquity.It is through His shed blood that we are saved, healed and set free from bondage and the forces of darkness
Romans 5:9-11; Ephesians 1:7; Revelation 12:11 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=Romans+5%3A9-11%3B+Ephesians+1%3A7%3B+Revelation+12%3A11;&version=50;)
We believe that every believer must have a personal and intimate relationship with Jesus Christ, for apart from Him we can do nothing. Each person has a ministry from God that no one else can fill. We are to instruct, teach, exhort, and admonish believers in the ways of God
John 15:1-5; Hebrews 13:5-6 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=John+15%3A1-5%3B+Hebrews+13%3A5-6;&version=50;)
We believe that the Bible is the true infallible Word of God, which cleanses our souls. It holds the words of eternal life and the keys of the Kingdom of God. The Bible shows us God's principles and standards for living; and it is the food that sustains us in all circumstances
John 1:14; 2 Timothy 3: 16-17; 1 John 2:5-6 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=John+1%3A14%3B+2+Timothy+3%3A+16-17%3B+1+John+2%3A5-6;&version=50;)
We believe that we are to wash and renew our minds daily by the Word of God.
Titus 3:5 & Ephesians 5:26 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=Titus+3%3A5+%26+Ephesians+5%3A26;&version=50;)
We must learn His ways and exchange our way of thinking for His. We are to be conformed to the Kingdom of God by the molding and shaping of His Hands
Romans 12:1-2; Ephesians 4:23-29; Philippians 4:8 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=Romans+12%3A1-2%3B+Ephesians+4%3A23-29%3B+Philippians+4%3A8;&version=50;)
We believe in justification by faith. We believe that salvation is free and apart from any work of man is a result of the sovereign grace of God.
Eph 2:8-9, Gal 5:5, Rom 5:1 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=Eph+2%3A8-9%2C+Gal+5%3A5%2C+Rom+5%3A1;&version=50;)
We believe in worshipping the Lord in spirit, song, dance and with the raising of our hands. We believe that we are to praise and worship Him with our whole being
Psalms 150:1-6; John 4:24 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=Psalms+150%3A1-6%3B+John+4%3A24;&version=50;)
We believe that in Godly living and the pursuit of a holy life should be the goal of every believer.
Heb 12:14, Phil 3:14 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=Heb+12%3A14%2C+Phil+3%3A14;&version=50;)
We believe that believers should be water baptized by immersion in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ for the circumcision of our hearts. It is through baptism that we publicly identify with the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ
Romans 6:3-6; Colossians 2:11-14; Acts 2:38 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=Romans+6%3A3-6%3B+Colossians+2%3A11-14%3B+Acts+2%3A38;&version=50;)
We believe that all Christians need to partake of the communion elements which represent the Lord Jesus' body and blood. It is by participating in the Lord's Supper that we proclaim His death until His return
John 6:53-58; 1 Corinthians 11:23-30 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=John+6%3A53-58%3B+1+Corinthians+11%3A23-30;&version=50;)
We believe in the Baptism of the Holy Spirit with the sign of speaking in other tongues. We believe that Christians must be filled daily by using the prayer language, but the evidence of the Holy Spirit's indwelling presence is a changed life
Acts 2:4; Ephesians 5:18-21 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=Acts+2%3A4%3B+Ephesians+5%3A18-21;&version=50;)
We believe in the manifestation of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. He ministers to His people through tongues, interpretation of tongues, prophecy; words of knowledge and wisdom, discerning of spirits, faith, working of miracles, healing, helps and government."
Mark 16:15-18; Acts 5:16; 2 Corinthians 12:1-11 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=Mark+16%3A15-18%3B+Acts+5%3A16%3B+2+Corinthians+12%3A1-11;&version=50;)
We believe that it is God's will to heal and deliver His people today as He did in the days of the first Apostles. It is by the stripes of Jesus that we are healed, delivered and made whole. We have authority over sickness, disease, demons, curses, and every circumstance in life
Luke 10:19; 2 Corinthians 10:4-5; 1 Peter 2:24 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=Luke+10%3A19%3B+2+Corinthians+10%3A4-5%3B+1+Peter+2%3A24;&version=50;)
"Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature... And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons;they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
Mark 16:15-18 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=Mark+16%3A15-18;&version=50;)This is the statement of faith from the dad's church. The first statements make me think they believe the same thing.
Joseph Miller
10-20-2007, 12:27 AM
The part of baptism is better on the fathers but not the part about the Godhead.
joyful
10-20-2007, 12:31 AM
Based on the three differences relating to wording on the Godhead, baptism, and HGB, it appears that there are some differences in belief between son and father.
The part of baptism is better on the fathers but not the part about the Godhead.
what about the use of the word "Triune" ?
Based on the three differences relating to wording on the Godhead, baptism, and HGB, it appears that there are some differences in belief between son and father.
Randy has hosted TBN where at the end he has given the invitation or prayer for salvation
It didn't sound similar to KP
Joseph Miller
10-20-2007, 12:38 AM
what about the use of the word "Triune" ?
That is what I was saying. The father says to bapitze in Jesus name. The son don't. Both of them lean toward the trinity from what I am picking up.
That is what I was saying. The father says to bapitze in Jesus name. The son don't. Both of them lean toward the trinity from what I am picking up.
I doubt if the Father leans towards the Trinity. seriously
joyful
10-20-2007, 12:42 AM
To me the use of the dreaded word "triune" wasn't that troublesome on KP's site, because the rest of the statement does not read like a trinitarian statement of belief on the Godhead at all. It doesn't say triune in nature or persons, just in manifestations. I realize that many would feel that the word itself is an attempt to compromise and flirt with trinitarian doctrine, but I'm sure that those people have many other reasons to disagree with KP than just this wording.
Joseph Miller
10-20-2007, 12:43 AM
I doubt if the Father leans towards the Trinity. seriously
Then why use the word triune? I see it as a compromise either way.
To me the use of the dreaded word "triune" wasn't that troublesome on KP's site, because the rest of the statement does not read like a trinitarian statement of belief on the Godhead at all. It doesn't say triune in nature or persons, just in manifestations. I realize that many would feel that the word itself is an attempt to compromise and flirt with trinitarian doctrine, but I'm sure that those people have many other reasons to disagree with KP than just this wording.
As long as the "Triune" is not referring to "3 persons/People" is that bad ??
I am not sure but I do agree, some will be upset
Then why use the word triune? I see it as a compromise either way.
I really don't know JM. may it is to make trinitarians feel comfortable??
either way, there are many who can testify that KP is pretty conservative on the doctrine. again, the Question remains
hometown guy
10-20-2007, 01:08 AM
Then why use the word triune? I see it as a compromise either way.
when one person starts compromising in one area they will compromise in another area.before you know it you cant tell what they belive.
Joseph Miller
10-20-2007, 01:10 AM
when one person starts compromising in one area they will compromise in another area.before you know it you cant tell what they belive.
Is that what we have witnessed in the last 15 years happening at KP's church?
hometown guy
10-20-2007, 01:11 AM
Is that what we have witnessed in the last 15 years happening at KP's church?
yep
Joseph Miller
10-20-2007, 01:12 AM
I am inclined to believe Hometown on this one.
Is that what we have witnessed in the last 15 years happening at KP's church?
At KP's church or RP's church ?? there are 2 churches you know
Joseph Miller
10-20-2007, 01:35 AM
At KP's church or RP's church ?? there are 2 churches you know
KP
KP
you think KPs church has compromised as opposed to RPs??????
Joseph Miller
10-20-2007, 01:43 AM
you think KPs church has compromised as opposed to RPs??????
I think both compromised.
I think both compromised.
you do????? even though KP preaches 3 steps ????
Joseph Miller
10-20-2007, 01:58 AM
you do????? even though KP preaches 3 steps ????
As far as the Godhead yeah I do think both have compromised.
Triune in His manifestationDoes the word TRIUNE give you the heeby jeebies, Joe? It does mean three in one. And the entire phrase says TRUINE IN MANIFESTATION ... not in persons... this in no way goes against Oneness theology ... AT ALL.
We believe all three manifestations are of the One True God.
Early Oneness believers had no fear of the term Triunity when referring to God ... it has been the subsequent radicalized generations that convulse uncontrollably and foam from the mouth when it is mentioned ....
Interesting to note that Andrew Urshan, father of Nathaniel Urshan, objected to the use of the term "oneness" preferring to describe God as a "tri-unity" or "Three-One God" in his book: The Almighty God in the Lord Jesus Christ, (pgs 6,42,78,93) or : The Blessed Three-ness of the Godhead. WG 4 (July 1923), 2-4.
Imagine a Oneness writer today using a title for his book with the words "The Blessed Three-ness of the Godhead'!!!!
Lastly ... KP is more Oneness than most of you here.
James Griffin
10-20-2007, 07:39 AM
Does the word TRIUNE give you the heeby jeebies, Joe? It does mean three in one. And the entire phrase says TRUINE IN MANIFESTATION ... not in persons... this in no way goes against Oneness theology ... AT ALL.
We believe all three manifestations are of the One True God.
Early Oneness believers had no fear of the term Triunity when referring to God ... it has been the subsequent radicalized generations that convulse uncontrollably and foam from the mouth when it is mentioned ....
Interesting to note that Andrew Urshan, father of Nathaniel Urshan, objected to the use of the term "oneness" preferring to describe God as a "tri-unity" or "Three-One God" in his book: The Almighty God in the Lord Jesus Christ, (pgs 6,42,78,93) or : The Blessed Three-ness of the Godhead. WG 4 (July 1923), 2-4.
Imagine a Oneness writer today using a title for his book with the words "The Blessed Three-ness of the Godhead'!!!!
Lastly ... KP is more Oneness than most of you here.
Amen and amen.
The irony lost on my trini-phobic brethren is use of the word Triune, is most often by those who want to recognize the three manifestions of the Godhead but do NOT, repeat for the slow learners, do NOT want to be confused with Trinitarians.
If anything their use of the word places them smack in the middle of the "Oneness" camp.
Dan &/Or James ,
what constitutes and completes ones salvation at RP's church ?
is it the same as KP's ?
There are 2 people on this forum for whom I am surprised they have not commented on this at all - but then,again, maybe not . ummmmm
KP is still very much Water and Spirit .... if you download the Enquirer's Handbook for Believers at the Promiseland Church website you will be able to access the church core beliefs. http://www.promiselandchurch.net/enquirershandbook.pdf
These are some quotes, reflecting a 3 step stance espoused by KP, from this Believer's Handbook
He also used the same keys to open up salvation to the Samaritans (Acts 8:15-17) and to the Gentiles
(Acts 10:44-48). In each instance, Peter was responsible for teaching them about the born again
experience -- repentance, water baptism and Holy Ghost baptism. This is the apostolic doctrine of the new birth, and it is the foundation on which the church is built (Ephesians 2:20).
The apostle Paul, chief apostle to the Gentiles, was taught the very same doctrine by the Lord Himself (Galatians 1:12). To ensure that his doctrine was the same as Peter’s with no flaws or contradictions, he met with Peter in Jerusalem. For fifteen days Paul confirmed his teaching with the
“key man,” Peter, and then took his doctrine to the Gentiles (Acts 19:1-6).
There is only one apostolic doctrine of salvation -- repentance, water baptism and Holy Ghost baptism -- and as a word of warning regarding this, Paul wrote, “But though we [Paul and Peter] or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel unto you than that you have received, let him be
accursed” (Galatians 1:8).
Washes Us from Sins
When a person is baptized, he is washed from his sins by the blood of Jesus (Revelation 1:5). “Arise
and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord” (Acts 22:16). This is also
what the apostle Peter meant when he said, “. . . Repent and be baptized every one of you in the
name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins . . .” (Acts 2:38).As for RP ... based on conversations here, with others and the statement of belief ... I believe he's a one-stepper
... the wording of his website statement gives strong evidence of this.
okay....... I just picked myself up off the floor from the shock that Dan has now posted a record 2 times in the Thad's Tab section!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dan, expect for things to get violent with comments like your above statement.
okay....... I just picked myself up off the floor from the shock that Dan has now posted a record 2 times in the Thad's Tab section!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dan, expect for things to get violent with comments like your above statement.
Speaking w/ Pastor Rios, from Church of Champions, .... in which he shared this w/ me ... KP would probably add that in addition to the 3 step New Birth experience ... we are saved, in his words, " by the word of our testimony".
Phil, are you familair with this ?
what's your take on this matter ?
philjones
10-20-2007, 01:56 PM
Phil, are you familair with this ?
what's your take on this matter ?
Thad,
Unless Bro. KP is flying under radar, he is still just as strong on "the message" as he was when he made his decision in 1977. It wasn't until the early nineties that he began moving away from clear directives in terms separation. He is not a trinity sympathizer to my knowledge but he is willing to glean from the corners of any field he is allowed to enter. KP may embrace a form of the light doctrine but I don't believe he teaches salvation outside of the full message of faith, repentance, baptism by immersion in Jesus name, and the infilling of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in other tongues.
As for RP, I am sure he his a trinitarian sympathizer and intentionally left his specific baptismal formula out of his statement of beliefs. I believe he would validate any baptism as long as it was considered christian... possibly even sprinkling in the titles would be accepted as valid. This is easy to believe as I am convinced, based on comments he has made in services I attended prior to the advent of Promiseland West, that he is a teacher of salvation at repentance with subsequent acts of obedience to identify you as one who has received salvation by faith alone in Christ alone.
stmatthew
10-20-2007, 02:18 PM
We believe that believers should be water baptized by immersion for the circumcision of our hearts. It is through baptism that we publicly identify with the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ (Romans 6:3-6; Colossians 2:11-14; Acts 2:38).
We believe that believers should be water baptized by immersion in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ for the circumcision of our hearts. It is through baptism that we publicly identify with the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ
The word SHOULD is really the only issue I would have here with both of them. I would have worded it as MUST. Of course the lack of Jesus name in Randy Phillips statement is not surprising, as he is a 1 stepper.
Thad,
Unless Bro. KP is flying under radar, he is still just as strong on "the message" as he was when he made his decision in 1977. It wasn't until the early nineties that he began moving away from clear directives in terms separation. He is not a trinity sympathizer to my knowledge but he is willing to glean from the corners of any field he is allowed to enter. KP may embrace a form of the light doctrine but I don't believe he teaches salvation outside of the full message of faith, repentance, baptism by immersion in Jesus name, and the infilling of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in other tongues.
As for RP, I am sure he his a trinitarian sympathizer and intentionally left his specific baptismal formula out of his statement of beliefs. I believe he would validate any baptism as long as it was considered christian... possibly even sprinkling in the titles would be accepted as valid. This is easy to believe as I am convinced, based on comments he has made in services I attended prior to the advent of Promiseland West, that he is a teacher of salvation at repentance with subsequent acts of obedience to identify you as one who has received salvation by faith alone in Christ alone.
YI YI YI YI YI !!!!
Sherri
10-20-2007, 02:59 PM
what about the use of the word "Triune" ?
Many of the old timers like Andrew Urshan used the word "Triune" or "Tri-Unity". It doesn't mean three separate and distinct beings.
Sherri
10-20-2007, 03:02 PM
Sorry, I didn't know Daniel had already said that.
Many of the old timers like Andrew Urshan used the word "Triune" or "Tri-Unity". It doesn't mean three separate and distinct beings.
ShERRI posted in Thad's TAB! OMG OMG!! SHOCKING!!!!
(something she vowed never to do BTW~!!!!!)
I don't believe AD usrhan used the term "TRiune"
Sherri
10-20-2007, 03:09 PM
ShERRI posted in Thad's TAB! OMG OMG!! SHOCKING!!!!
(something she vowed never to do BTW~!!!!!)
I don't believe AD usrhan used the term "TRiune"
I don't think I ever said that!!!
Anyway, what's the diff between Triune and Triunity??? He definitely called us Triunity.
I would agree that the use of the word "triune" freaks a lot of Oneness Pentecostals out.
Some day when I have time I am going to list some New Testament scriptures that a lot of Oneness folks seem uncomortable with also.
Sometimes I fear the emphasis is so much on God being "one" that the different ways God presented himself gets overlooked.
I always found the explanation that it was Jesus flesh talking to his divinity and vice versa a little strange.
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