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Ron
03-05-2007, 04:54 PM
1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

I thought Salvation was a Gift?
Are we saved by "Grace," or is it in "Obedience" to the Gospel which is basically
"Works?":hmmm


Come on you Armchair Quarter... er Theologians!

SDG
03-05-2007, 04:59 PM
Are you sure you want to go down this road ...Ron ....one more time????

I they say I'm contentious ....

Ron
03-05-2007, 05:00 PM
Are you sure you want to go down this road ...Ron ....one more time????

I they say I'm contentious ....

The Word says it not me!

Does Obedience or Grace save us?

SDG
03-05-2007, 05:02 PM
OK ......































Jesus does!!! LOL.

OneAccord
03-05-2007, 05:44 PM
We are saved by grace. Nothing we do "earns" salvation. Obedience to God's Word is our reponse to His grace.

Its like this... I recieved a Lowes gift certificate in the mail a few months ago. I went to Lowes one Friday and bought a new 14.4 volt drill. I gave them the gift certificate and, because the drill was on sale, I got it for FREE. Didn't cost me a dime. Lowes gift certificate was "grace". I put the drill in the back of my truck and drove home where I promptly forgot about the drill. It stayed in the back of the truck until Monday and, of course it rained all weekend. The drill was ruined. Soaked through. it rusted and I never got to use it. If I would have just "obeyed" common sense and put the drill in the shop, I'd still be using it. But, I didn't obey. I didn't do the "work" of taking care of my free gift.

Jesus paid the price for our salvation. In His mercy and grace, He provided the means for us to be redeemed. All we need to do...is obey what His Word requires of us to maintain our salvation. No we, don't work to get saved... we work (and obey) because we are saved.

SDG
03-05-2007, 05:45 PM
We are saved by grace. Nothing we do "earns" salvation. Obedience to God's Word is our reponse to His grace.

Its like this... I recieved a Lowes gift certificate in the mail a few months ago. I went to Lowes one Friday and bought a new 14.4 volt drill. I gave them the gift certificate and, because the drill was on sale, I got it for FREE. Didn't cost me a dime. Lowes gift certificate was "grace". I put the drill in the back of my truck and drove home where I promptly forgot about the drill. It stayed in the back of the truck until Monday and, of course it rained all weekend. The drill was ruined. Soaked through. it rusted and I never got to use it. If I would have just "obeyed" common sense and put the drill in the shop, I'd still be using it. But, I didn't obey. I didn't do the "work" of taking care of my free gift.

Jesus paid the price for our salvation. In His mercy and grace, He provided the means for us to be redeemed. All we need to do...is obey what His Word requires of us to maintain our salvation. No we, don't work to get saved... we work (and obey) because we are saved.

Haz llover Padre .... Let it rain, Father.

Ron
03-05-2007, 05:50 PM
We are saved by grace. Nothing we do "earns" salvation. Obedience to God's Word is our reponse to His grace.

Its like this... I recieved a Lowes gift certificate in the mail a few months ago. I went to Lowes one Friday and bought a new 14.4 volt drill. I gave them the gift certificate and, because the drill was on sale, I got it for FREE. Didn't cost me a dime. Lowes gift certificate was "grace". I put the drill in the back of my truck and drove home where I promptly forgot about the drill. It stayed in the back of the truck until Monday and, of course it rained all weekend. The drill was ruined. Soaked through. it rusted and I never got to use it. If I would have just "obeyed" common sense and put the drill in the shop, I'd still be using it. But, I didn't obey. I didn't do the "work" of taking care of my free gift.

Jesus paid the price for our salvation. In His mercy and grace, He provided the means for us to be redeemed. All we need to do...is obey what His Word requires of us to maintain our salvation. No we, don't work to get saved... we work (and obey) because we are saved.

Sooooo, obeying not the Gospel doesn't mean what it says??:dunno

SDG
03-05-2007, 05:51 PM
Sooooo, obeying not the Gospel doesn't mean what it says??:dunno

Let me help me out with this ... it constitutes no faith .. or unbelief. which equals eternal condemnation .....

Ron
03-05-2007, 05:53 PM
Let me help me out with this ... it constitutes no faith .. or unbelief. which equals eternal condemnation .....

Let me ask you a Simple Question.

Do you need to "Obey" the Gospel to be saved?

OneAccord
03-05-2007, 05:57 PM
Sooooo, obeying not the Gospel doesn't mean what it says??:dunno

"Obeying not the Gospel" means somebody left their drill in the rain. God granted them salvation, but, because they chose to not obey the Lord .... well... they just lost out.

Ron
03-05-2007, 06:01 PM
"Obeying not the Gospel" means somebody left their drill in the rain. God granted them salvation, but, because they chose to not obey the Lord .... well... they just lost out.

Soooo, one just believes?

What about Baptism?

SDG
03-05-2007, 06:01 PM
Jesus is the Gospel ... He said "If you love me obey my commandments" ... through true faith in Jesus, the Good news ... His death and resurrection we are saved ... the results will be obedience.

1. (Ephesians 2:8-9) - "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, that no one should boast."
2. (Rom. 3:20,28) - "because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin...28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law."
3. (Galatians 2:16) - "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."

SDG
03-05-2007, 06:03 PM
Soooo, one just believes?

What about Baptism?

must be obeyed like loving you neighbor, not forsaking the assembly of the brethren, living in holiness ... etc. etc. etc.

SDG
03-05-2007, 06:03 PM
Have we had this discussion before????

Ron
03-05-2007, 06:13 PM
Why are we Baptised?

To wash away our sins!

Act 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

He that beleives "AND" is Baptised will be saved!

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Seems like just believing doesn't cut it, does it?

SDG
03-05-2007, 06:14 PM
Why are we Baptised?

To wash away our sins!

Act 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

He that beleives "AND" is Baptised will be saved!

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Seems like just believing doesn't cut it, does it?

do YOU REALLY WANT TO GO THIS ROUTE ... RON ????

Ron
03-05-2007, 06:17 PM
do YOU REALLY WANT TO GO THIS ROUTE ... RON ????


Dan, I didn't ask you to respond, but I would love to hear you post (not twist)
scriptures that say that "Obedience" to the Gospel isn't nessecary to be saved.

Man if you can convince me-okay.

I have been living too straight, if I can do anything and still be saved!!

Felicity
03-05-2007, 06:18 PM
The Gospel is the death, burial, resurrection of Jesus Christ.

We obey Peter's command (& Jesus' as well) to repent and get baptized.

Then we receive the promise of Holy Spirit infilling. :cool:

Praxeas
03-05-2007, 06:19 PM
1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

I thought Salvation was a Gift?
Are we saved by "Grace," or is it in "Obedience" to the Gospel which is basically
"Works?":hmmm


Come on you Armchair Quarter... er Theologians!
Obedience to the gospel is NOT "basically works"....works is anything you can do apart from the gospel. Nor is the act or obedience itself something that saves you, but the faith at work IN that obedience is what is the factor.

Paul says
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

SDG
03-05-2007, 06:20 PM
Obedience to the gospel is NOT "basically works"....works is anything you can do apart from the gospel. Nor is the act or obedience itself something that saves you, but the faith at work IN that obedience is what is the factor.

Paul says
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Couldn't have said it better .:shockamoo

Ron
03-05-2007, 06:21 PM
The Gospel is the death, burial, resurrection of Jesus Christ.

We obey Peter's command (& Jesus' as well) to repent and get baptized.

Then we receive the promise of Holy Spirit infilling. :cool:

Bingo! That is it in a nutshell!

Ron
03-05-2007, 06:22 PM
Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.
Jam 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jam 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jam 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jam 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jam 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Jam 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
Jam 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Praxeas
03-05-2007, 06:23 PM
Sooooo, obeying not the Gospel doesn't mean what it says??:dunno
Two ways one can look at this...a person that does not obey is lost....yet Paul did not say "a person that does not believe is lost"..

It's presumed that if a person really did believe they would obey. Well what if we do not presume that? A person can believe but they still need to obey?

How many "evangelicals" would submit that a person can be saved and not repent? Is repentance a work?

At what point did those Jews on the day of Pentecostal believe? Was it when they asked "men and brethren, what shall we do (to be saved)?" If so, and obviously it takes faith in the message you just heard to ask such a question, then they needed to do something (even if only repentance) to be saved

Ron
03-05-2007, 06:26 PM
Two ways one can look at this...a person that does not obey is lost....yet Paul did not say "a person that does not believe is lost"..

It's presumed that if a person really did believe they would obey. Well what if we do not presume that? A person can believe but they still need to obey?

How many "evangelicals" would submit that a person can be saved and not repent? Is repentance a work?

At what point did those Jews on the day of Pentecostal believe? Was it when they asked "men and brethren, what shall we do (to be saved)?" If so, and obviously it takes faith in the message you just heard to ask such a question, then they needed to do something (even if only repentance) to be saved


Prax, you know as well as I do that there are tons, millions of people who say they believe God, but don't do the works (Repentence, Baptism, Living for God).

James said "Faith without works is "DEAD!"

Felicity
03-05-2007, 06:26 PM
What about this scripture? :cool:

Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

agonizomai {ag-o-nid'-zom-ahee}

Outline of Biblical Usage:

1) to enter a contest: contend in the gymnastic games

2) to contend with adversaries, fight

3) metaph. to contend, struggle, with difficulties and dangers

4) to endeavour with strenuous zeal, strive: to obtain something


:)

SDG
03-05-2007, 06:29 PM
All this is recycled ... we addressed these same issues last 2 weeks in THE THREAD ... including how PAJCers misinterpret James 2 .... I'm not going thru this one again.

Ron
03-05-2007, 06:30 PM
What about this scripture? :cool:

Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

agonizomai {ag-o-nid'-zom-ahee}

Outline of Biblical Usage:

1) to enter a contest: contend in the gymnastic games

2) to contend with adversaries, fight

3) metaph. to contend, struggle, with difficulties and dangers

4) to endeavour with strenuous zeal, strive: to obtain something

How does this pertain to Obeying the Gospel?

Ron
03-05-2007, 06:32 PM
All this is recycled ... we addressed these same issues last 2 weeks in THE THREAD ... including how PAJCers misinterpret James 2 .... I'm not going thru this one again.

I don't even know how PAJCERS are.

However, I do know that in that same scripture James talks about Abraham being Justified by Faith through Works.

Faith without works is dead!

RevDWW
03-05-2007, 06:32 PM
Wow there is more to this obedience then you might think:

Acts 5:32 (KJV)
32And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.


Rom 2:8 - 11 (KJV)
8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11For there is no respect of persons with God.

Rom 6:16 - 18 (KJV)
16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you .
18Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.


Heb 5:8 - 9 (KJV)
8Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him

Felicity
03-05-2007, 06:33 PM
How does this pertain to Obeying the Gospel?I was hoping you might share your thoughts.

TB preached on this Sunday AM.

Praxeas
03-05-2007, 06:34 PM
Prax, you know as well as I do that there are tons, millions of people who say they believe God, but don't do the works (Repentence, Baptism, Living for God).

James said "Faith without works is "DEAD!"
And? Im not sure what your point was....did you think I said they did do the works???? :dunno

And repeating a verse as though I didn't read it the first time just doesn't make sense. What is it that you are disagreeing with?

Ron
03-05-2007, 06:34 PM
Wow there is more to this obedience then you might think:

Acts 5:32 (KJV)
32And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.


Rom 2:8 - 11 (KJV)
8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11For there is no respect of persons with God.

Rom 6:16 - 18 (KJV)
16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you .
18Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.


Heb 5:8 - 9 (KJV)
8Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him

Very good scriptures.
Hey, it is there. If anyone has a problem with it they can wriggle out any view they like.

God requires obedience!

1Sa 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

Praxeas
03-05-2007, 06:35 PM
All this is recycled ... we addressed these same issues last 2 weeks in THE THREAD ... including how PAJCers misinterpret James 2 .... I'm not going thru this one again.
Then why do you keep posting? Are you seeking attention? :tease

SDG
03-05-2007, 06:38 PM
Then why do you keep posting? Are you seeking attention? :tease


Why do you keep moderating? Are you seeking to feel important??? :killinme :killinme :killinme :killinme :killinme :killinme

Ron
03-05-2007, 06:39 PM
And? Im not sure what your point was....did you think I said they did do the works???? :dunno

And repeating a verse as though I didn't read it the first time just doesn't make sense. What is it that you are disagreeing with?

Meaning, I can believe (in fact at 8 yrs of age went to a Salvation Army altar and asked God into my heart then went and lived for the Devil!) in God all I want
but If I believe, I will obey, if I obey, I really believed!
Therefore, I Repent, I am Baptised in Water in Jesus Name, for the "Remission"
of Sins, and I worship God and he givers me his Spirit.

Sounds simple.

I have had tons of people who came to an altar to seek God for the Holy Ghost, but no one got it if they didn't first Worship him for it!

SDG
03-05-2007, 06:40 PM
Meaning, I can believe (in fact at 8 yrs of age went to a Salvation Army altar and asked God into my heart then went and lived for the Devil!) in God all I want
but If I believe, I will obey, if I obey, I really believed!
Therefore, I Repent, I am Baptised in Water in Jesus Name, for the "Remission"
of Sins, and I worship God and he givers me his Spirit.

Sounds simple.

I have had tons of people who came to an altar to seek God for the Holy Ghost, but no one got it if they didn't first Worship him for it!

Sounds like one neat little package.

RevDWW
03-05-2007, 06:40 PM
Obey or pay!

Hearken or Hell!

Do or Die!

:thumbsup

stmatthew
03-05-2007, 06:44 PM
We are saved by grace. Nothing we do "earns" salvation. Obedience to God's Word is our reponse to His grace.

Its like this... I recieved a Lowes gift certificate in the mail a few months ago. I went to Lowes one Friday and bought a new 14.4 volt drill. I gave them the gift certificate and, because the drill was on sale, I got it for FREE. Didn't cost me a dime. Lowes gift certificate was "grace". I put the drill in the back of my truck and drove home where I promptly forgot about the drill. It stayed in the back of the truck until Monday and, of course it rained all weekend. The drill was ruined. Soaked through. it rusted and I never got to use it. If I would have just "obeyed" common sense and put the drill in the shop, I'd still be using it. But, I didn't obey. I didn't do the "work" of taking care of my free gift.

Jesus paid the price for our salvation. In His mercy and grace, He provided the means for us to be redeemed. All we need to do...is obey what His Word requires of us to maintain our salvation. No we, don't work to get saved... we work (and obey) because we are saved.

The problem I see with your analogy is that if you had not went and got your gift, all you would have had was a useless card. It took action on your part to obey the rules of the card and go and redeem it.

Our salvation henges on our faith, but if our faith does not produce action, and should I add, the proper action in obedience to the bible, all we got is dead faith, and it does not do us any good.

Many want a loophole, but I say with James "Show me your faith, and I will show you my faith by my obedient works". If your faith does not produce the proper works then you may have your faith in the wrong thing, and the wrong thing will not save you.

Praxeas
03-05-2007, 06:45 PM
Why do you keep moderating? Are you seeking to feel important??? :killinme :killinme :killinme :killinme :killinme :killinme
No, I get a thrill out of banning annoying pests....someone remind me again why I voted "stay"? :dunno

Ron
03-05-2007, 06:45 PM
The problem I see with your analogy is that if you had not went and got your gift, all you would have had was a useless card. It took action on your part to obey the rules of the card and go and redeem it.

Our salvation henges on our faith, but if our faith does not produce action, and should I add, the proper action in obedience to the bible, all we got is dead faith, and it does not do us any good.

Many want a loophole, but I say with James "Show me your faith, and I will show you my faith by my obedient works". If your faith does not produce the proper works then you may have your faith in the wrong thing, and the wrong thing will not save you.

Amen!

RevDWW
03-05-2007, 06:46 PM
Wow there is more to this obedience then you might think:

Acts 5:32 (KJV)
32And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.


Rom 2:8 - 11 (KJV)
8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11For there is no respect of persons with God.

Rom 6:16 - 18 (KJV)
16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you .
18Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.


Heb 5:8 - 9 (KJV)
8Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him

Dan, how do you answer these? It's not just about believing. Action must accompany our belief!

Praxeas
03-05-2007, 06:46 PM
Meaning, I can believe (in fact at 8 yrs of age went to a Salvation Army altar and asked God into my heart then went and lived for the Devil!) in God all I want
but If I believe, I will obey, if I obey, I really believed!
Therefore, I Repent, I am Baptised in Water in Jesus Name, for the "Remission"
of Sins, and I worship God and he givers me his Spirit.

Sounds simple.

I have had tons of people who came to an altar to seek God for the Holy Ghost, but no one got it if they didn't first Worship him for it!
yes....but HOW does that contradict anything I have asserted?

Felicity
03-05-2007, 06:47 PM
So Ron......

You don't think that striving to enter in at the strait gate has anything to do with the Gospel or salvation?

Ron
03-05-2007, 06:52 PM
Heb 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such a high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
Heb 8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
Heb 8:3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
Heb 8:4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
Heb 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern showed to thee in the mount.
Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Again, Paul is talking that Jesus is of a Heavenly Priesthood of a Tabernacle that God pitched and not man.
He entered that Tabernacle in the Heavens with his own Blood.

Joh 20:14 And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.
Joh 20:15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
Joh 20:16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Why couldn't they touch him? He was on his way to offer his own blood as our High Priest and didn't want to tain't the offering.
After he came back, he allowed them to touch him.

This is why it is so important to have the Tabernace plan of Salvation because when we repent, and are Baptised, and filled with the Holy GHost,
these three elements are the same that was in Moses Tabernacle which was a figure of the true in Heaven.

Ron
03-05-2007, 06:54 PM
yes....but HOW does that contradict anything I have asserted?

Prax, there are a lot of people who go about "Believing" but if there is no obedience-it is nothing.

Praxeas
03-05-2007, 06:54 PM
So Ron......

You don't think that striving to enter in at the strait gate has anything to do with the Gospel or salvation?
I don't believe that a life long works based effort is necessary in order to stay saved. I do believe though that a person that genuinely has faith will have some sort of works in their lives...if they don't have fruit then there is something wrong with the tree

1Pe 2:12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Ron
03-05-2007, 06:55 PM
So Ron......

You don't think that striving to enter in at the strait gate has anything to do with the Gospel or salvation?

I only ask, "how does that pertain to Obeying the Gospel?"

Praxeas
03-05-2007, 06:55 PM
Prax, there are a lot of people who go about "Believing" but if there is no obedience-it is nothing.
And? I ask again, what is your point to Me personally. What is it that you think I believe that you have repeated yourself now three times and no answered my question lol

Ron
03-05-2007, 06:57 PM
I don't believe that a life long works based effort is necessary in order to stay saved. I do believe though that a person that genuinely has faith will have some sort of works in their lives...if they don't have fruit then there is something wrong with the tree

1Pe 2:12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


Prax, I agree that God desires for us to have "Good works" and not "Dead Works" in our walk with God.

Our main task is what Esther touched on today about Taking up our Cross and "denying" ourselves and following him.

The question remains, "how do we obey the Gospel" and is it nessecary for Salvation?

Ron
03-05-2007, 07:03 PM
Obedience to the gospel is NOT "basically works"....works is anything you can do apart from the gospel. Nor is the act or obedience itself something that saves you, but the faith at work IN that obedience is what is the factor.

Paul says
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

No, Prax. I can not, wil not, have not, ever be able to provide Salvation for myself.
I am dependent for my next breath from him.

We do need to have not just Faith, but obedience to the Lord in what he commands.

Look at Namaan, he came looking for a healing from leprosy and the man of God said go dip in the Jordan river seven times.
Was it faith that got him a healing?
partly, it was also obedience to the man of God that got him his obedience that got him his healing.

Namaan eventually believed that man of God and did what was needed-thus proving his faith!

Praxeas
03-05-2007, 07:04 PM
Prax, I agree that God desires for us to have "Good works" and not "Dead Works" in our walk with God.

Our main task is what Esther touched on today about Taking up our Cross and "denying" ourselves and following him.

The question remains, "how do we obey the Gospel" and is it nessecary for Salvation?

I thought I answered that. Works is NOT "anything you can do"...it's anything you can do APART from the gospel. Thus if it pertains to the gospel we must obey it. Not the verse I posted about obedience from the heart.

Ron
03-05-2007, 07:05 PM
I thought I answered that. Works is NOT "anything you can do"...it's anything you can do APART from the gospel. Thus if it pertains to the gospel we must obey it. Not the verse I posted about obedience from the heart.

Then I guess we are both saying the same thing.

Praxeas
03-05-2007, 07:06 PM
Then I guess we are both saying the same thing.
Well, that's what I thought....it was hard to tell by the way you were posting to me though :dunno

Ron
03-05-2007, 07:09 PM
Well, that's what I thought....it was hard to tell by the way you were posting to me though :dunno

Sorry. My apologies. :sorry

Ain't communication great!:wave

OneAccord
03-05-2007, 07:12 PM
Soooo, one just believes?

What about Baptism?

What does the Bible say about baptism? Repenting of our sins, and God forgiving those sins...thats grace. Obedience are the things we do (which incudes water baptism) to maintain His grace in our lives. No, believing isn't enough. But, its a start!

Praxeas
03-05-2007, 07:12 PM
Sorry. My apologies. :sorry

Ain't communication great!:wave
Wonderful. We should do it more often :killinme

Ron
03-05-2007, 07:19 PM
What does the Bible say about baptism? Repenting of our sins, and God forgiving those sins...thats grace. Obedience are the things we do (which incudes water baptism) to maintain His grace in our lives. No, believing isn't enough. But, its a start!

He provides-That's Grace!
We believe him.
We Appropriate that Grace by Obeying The Gospel.

SDG
03-05-2007, 07:37 PM
No, I get a thrill out of banning annoying pests....someone remind me again why I voted "stay"? :dunno

because you love me .... Prax ......

Praxeas
03-05-2007, 07:42 PM
because you love me .... Prax ......
Is that a trick question? Is honesty a must when answering? :heeheehee

SDG
03-05-2007, 07:44 PM
Is that a trick question? Is honesty a must when answering? :heeheehee

Someone's gotta make you earn your keep ... I know I'm keeping Matty boy busy.

Praxeas
03-05-2007, 07:54 PM
Someone's gotta make you earn your keep ... I know I'm keeping Matty boy busy.

Oh believe me...it would be just as good when you are gone....we were recently informed by the owner(s) that if you get banned WE get severance pay :killinme