View Full Version : (((NEWS FLASH))) ALJC & UPC Merger Talks pick up Steam?
DId you hear that a Letter was sent out To ALJC Pastors and that talks are resuming ????? I heard from a ALJC MInister's wife who told me this along with this information: Things are going to start merging slowly with joint and shared events and The local ALJC pastors got a letter from Bro. Haney stating that all these guys met recently & are going to support each other (perhaps shared events?)and have links to each other's websites.
Does anyone have additional information , perhaps the letter ??
Nahum
10-24-2007, 11:22 AM
Whatever.
Most of those guys would never, ever come into the mothership.
It's a pipe dream Thad.
Joseph
10-24-2007, 11:24 AM
I am sure the PAJC/PCI boys were saying the same thing, but it happened.
Nahum
10-24-2007, 11:25 AM
How many men are in the ALJC?
200?
300?
Whatever.
Most of those guys would never, ever come into the mothership.
It's a pipe dream Thad.
Don't get on my case about it PP.
Just reporting what the ALJC folks are giving me
How many men are in the ALJC?
200?
300?
is this an intentional putdown PP ?
trent4
10-24-2007, 11:27 AM
Your quick....I don't know about a merger but I am sure we will find out more when our pastor gets back.
Nahum
10-24-2007, 11:28 AM
Don't get on my case about it PP.
Just reporting what the ALJC folks are giving me
I'm not upset with you Bro.
I just find that very hard to believe.
Documentation would certainly change my mind.
Further, I believe a "merger" would need to be presented to the General Conference floor of each organization. A dissolution of the ALJC is another matter entirely.
I have heard they are suffering numerically right now.
Nahum
10-24-2007, 11:30 AM
How many men are in the ALJC?
200?
300?
is this an intentional putdown PP ?
No, I was once a part of the ALJC, and they are a great bunch of people. But over the past few years they have lost many men to the UPC, including their former GS, Brother Don Johnson.
I can't imagine the organization is growing, or even numerically stable.
No, I was once a part of the ALJC, and they are a great bunch of people. But over the past few years they have lost many men to the UPC, including their former GS, Brother Don Johnson.
I can't imagine the organization is growing, or even numerically stable.
I heard about Bro Johnson and the others coming over.
maybe the UPC believes this will cushion the blow when we lose the estimated numbers in January
ChicagoPastor
10-24-2007, 11:54 AM
How many men are in the ALJC?
200?
300?
Amigo,
They somewhere between 800-1000 ministers left...
Buffy
10-24-2007, 11:58 AM
I called my father-in-law, ALJC Pastor and Presbyter and he did not know anything about it.
Nahum
10-24-2007, 12:04 PM
Amigo,
They have somewhere between 800-1000 ministers left...
I was only off by 500-700!!!!:hypercoffee
I wonder how those numbers compare to 10 years ago?
ChicagoPastor
10-24-2007, 12:07 PM
Ok, just got off the phone with a Dist. Supt in the ALJC. He said that at there General Board meetings (two weeks ago) nothing of any possible merger or combined events with the UPCI was mentioned.
ChicagoPastor
10-24-2007, 12:08 PM
I was only off by 500-700!!!!:hypercoffee
I wonder how those numbers compare to 10 years ago?
They told me that the ALJC has lost over a thousand ministers in the last 10 years. Some to the UPC others just went ind.
Nahum
10-24-2007, 12:08 PM
Ok, just got off the phone with a Dist. Supt in the ALJC. He said that at there General Board meetings (two weeks ago) nothing of any possible merger or combined events with the UPCI was mentioned.
And there you have it. :scoregood
I believe someone will be coming on to give more insight t some point.
seguidordejesus
10-24-2007, 12:09 PM
Ok, just got off the phone with a Dist. Supt in the ALJC. He said that at there General Board meetings (two weeks ago) nothing of any possible merger or combined events with the UPCI was mentioned.
Then it is REALLY recent...we know THAD would never lead us astray!!!
btw I got the second letter you told me about...still undecided
Nahum
10-24-2007, 12:09 PM
They told me that the ALJC has lost over a thousand ministers in the last 10 years. Some to the UPC others just went ind.
OMG!!!!!!!
Why in the world would so many leave?
Ok, just got off the phone with a Dist. Supt in the ALJC. He said that at there General Board meetings (two weeks ago) nothing of any possible merger or combined events with the UPCI was mentioned.
this was in a letter - a seperate meeting i believe
ChicagoPastor
10-24-2007, 12:11 PM
Wouldn't it have been talked about at their General Board meetings?
I mean it's kinda a big deal....
I'm not questioning your info.....
I just think that something this big would be talked about with the General Board
Jack Shephard
10-24-2007, 12:12 PM
No, I was once a part of the ALJC, and they are a great bunch of people. But over the past few years they have lost many men to the UPC, including their former GS, Brother Don Johnson.
I can't imagine the organization is growing, or even numerically stable.
I know Don Johnson and his grandson Mark. They joined the UPC because of there being more UPC churches in there area they could fellowship. Now Mark is a UPC Pastor in AL. Don also left becasue he wanted someone else to lead and not lean on him to do it.
As far as ALJC they have alot of growth over seas. Though the individual churches seem to be growing I am not sure how many new home mission churches they place per year. The church I was raised in is ALJC. I have many friends still in there just as you do.
Wouldn't it have been talked about at their General Board meetings?
I mean it's kinda a big deal....
I'm not questioning your info.....
I just think that something this big would be talked about with the General Board
Just giving you what a minister's wife just gave me today-
anyone can confirm or deny.
I will ask someone to come on and post
Steve Epley
10-24-2007, 08:48 PM
I very seriously doubt this. The groups have swapped preachers forever. I do NOT see the two merging. I cannot see anything the ALJC would get out of the deal. If I am not mistaken they have been a group since 1953?
Caston Smith
10-24-2007, 09:00 PM
I very seriously doubt this. The groups have swapped preachers forever. I do NOT see the two merging. I cannot see anything the ALJC would get out of the deal. If I am not mistaken they have been a group since 1953?
I have one of their manual's around here somewhere, and if I remember correctly it did say they formed in 1953 or maybe 1952.
James Griffin
10-24-2007, 10:40 PM
I have one of their manual's around here somewhere, and if I remember correctly it did say they formed in 1953 or maybe 1952.
March, 1952, three groups known as the Assemblies of
the Church of Jesus Christ, Jesus Only Apostolic Church of God, and
the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ, formulated a merger adopting
the name Assemblies of the Lord Jesus Christ
lisafitzh2o
10-25-2007, 07:24 AM
Okay, cool your jets, people, and lay off of Thad.
He's right....several men met at the Urshan School of Theology (or whatever it's called) in a forum this past weekened and agreed that they will support each other. These were men from ALJC, UPC, IAF, and I'm not sure if others were there.
I've been told that if you'll just wait, there's a website being formed that will have links to the various oneness organizations. Once this website is up, I'll post the link on here.
I don't think all of these groups are planning to merge...I think this was just a way of burying the hatchet after years of not fellowshipping. As you all know, CAN'T NOBODY TEAR DOWN EACH OTHER LIKE HOLINESS PEOPLE! *said with the most southern drawl I could muster*
So leave Thaddy alone!!!!!
bcarolb
10-25-2007, 07:33 AM
I heard about Bro Johnson and the others coming over.
maybe the UPC believes this will cushion the blow when we lose the estimated numbers in January
We have been in virtual isolation because of all our personal situations. Catch me up on this expected loss please, if you have time. :sos
lisafitzh2o
10-25-2007, 08:39 AM
:bump
(for the "morning crew", as it has been so aptly named)
StillStanding
10-25-2007, 08:48 AM
Okay, cool your jets, people, and lay off of Thad.
He's right....several men met at the Urshan School of Theology (or whatever it's called) in a forum this past weekened and agreed that they will support each other. These were men from ALJC, UPC, IAF, and I'm not sure if others were there.
I've been told that if you'll just wait, there's a website being formed that will have links to the various oneness organizations. Once this website is up, I'll post the link on here.
I don't think all of these groups are planning to merge...I think this was just a way of burying the hatchet after years of not fellowshipping. As you all know, CAN'T NOBODY TEAR DOWN EACH OTHER LIKE HOLINESS PEOPLE! *said with the most southern drawl I could muster*
So leave Thaddy alone!!!!!
:scoregood :thumbsup:drseuss
DId you hear that a Letter was sent out To ALJC Pastors and that talks are resuming ????? I heard from a ALJC MInister's wife who told me this along with this information: Things are going to start merging slowly with joint and shared events and The local ALJC pastors got a letter from Bro. Haney stating that all these guys met recently & are going to support each other (perhaps shared events?)and have links to each other's websites.
Does anyone have additional information , perhaps the letter ??
Can someone post the letter?
Joseph Miller
10-25-2007, 05:17 PM
Can someone post the letter?
That would be really good. It would them elliminate the specualtion about the letter, but then what would be the purpose of the thread after that?
Okay, cool your jets, people, and lay off of Thad.
He's right....several men met at the Urshan School of Theology (or whatever it's called) in a forum this past weekened and agreed that they will support each other. These were men from ALJC, UPC, IAF, and I'm not sure if others were there.
I've been told that if you'll just wait, there's a website being formed that will have links to the various oneness organizations. Once this website is up, I'll post the link on here.
I don't think all of these groups are planning to merge...I think this was just a way of burying the hatchet after years of not fellowshipping. As you all know, CAN'T NOBODY TEAR DOWN EACH OTHER LIKE HOLINESS PEOPLE! *said with the most southern drawl I could muster*
So leave Thaddy alone!!!!!
I'm not familiar with the IAF.
I don't remember ever hearing about them before.
It is listed as an Apostolic organization at
http://www.apostolic-churches.com/organizations.html
but if I try to go to the IAF site, the link doesn't work.
That would be really good. It would them elliminate the specualtion about the letter, but then what would be the purpose of the thread after that?
Well than we could all hash and rehash and dissect the letter.
Joseph Miller
10-25-2007, 05:23 PM
Well than we could all hash and rehash and dissect the letter.
That's right we could dissect the letter so we could figure out what they were "really" saying.
:drama of AFF.
Steve Epley
10-25-2007, 08:26 PM
I'm not familiar with the IAF.
I don't remember ever hearing about them before.
It is listed as an Apostolic organization at
http://www.apostolic-churches.com/organizations.html
but if I try to go to the IAF site, the link doesn't work.
I think Bishop G. D. Peters of Kingsport helped to form it?
stmatthew
10-25-2007, 08:49 PM
I think Bishop G. D. Peters of Kingsport helped to form it?
I believe you are right. They have a campmeeting every year. I believe Dean Livingstone is involved, and several others. I know the younger Shoulders has preached there several times.
I think it is hilarious that when someone points out that the General Board of the ALJC just met and nothing about a merger was talked about Thad just says that it must have been some other meeting!!!!
As if that would not have been a hot topic of conversation for the General Board. LOL!!!!
ChicagoPastor
10-25-2007, 09:28 PM
I can confirm 100% that this was NOT talked about AT ALL at the ALJC's recent General Board meetings (held around Oct 10th or so)
Whatever meeting was held at Ursan School has happened before. Bro. Bernard mentioned it in a sermon a year or two ago. The UPC, ALJC, PAW and others were involved. So this is not the first time Urshan hosts that kind of event.
Scott Hutchinson
10-25-2007, 10:10 PM
Here is a Brother that belongs to the IAF.
They have been working on the IAF website, that's why it's down.
http://newlifeapostolicchurch.com
I apologize but this bro.did belong to the IAF at one time.
I can confirm 100% that this was NOT talked about AT ALL at the ALJC's recent General Board meetings (held around Oct 10th or so)
Whatever meeting was held at Ursan School has happened before. Bro. Bernard mentioned it in a sermon a year or two ago. The UPC, ALJC, PAW and others were involved. So this is not the first time Urshan hosts that kind of event.
I would think there would be problems with UPC, PAW, ALJC, and other OP organizations working together because preachers leave one group and join another so there may be bad feelings against them by folks in the organization they left. They may have left "under question." Also, folks move from church to church in a town and pastors world have bad feelings toward one another. Then, the UPC manual says that permission is required from a UPC pastor for someone to come in to preach in any other church in "his" city.
I think Bishop G. D. Peters of Kingsport helped to form it?
If that's the organization Bishop Peters was in, I think I stumbled onto their web site once. About the only things i remember was that it was not a very large group and that Deon Turner was in it. Deon had been part of the ALJC church that I went to back in the nineteen sixties and seventies but he had left there and gone to Bristol, Virginia or Tennessee wherever it was and started a church. I think there was something different about their belief about communion but I'm not sure now.
stmatthew
10-25-2007, 10:43 PM
If that's the organization Bishop Peters was in, I think I stumbled onto their web site once. About the only things i remember was that it was not a very large group and that Deon Turner was in it. Deon had been part of the ALJC church that I went to back in the nineteen sixties and seventies but he had left there and gone to Bristol, Virginia or Tennessee wherever it was and started a church. I think there was something different about their belief about communion but I'm not sure now.
Yes, this is the same group. It was a loose fellowship made up of several men. It seems like Ron Libby had a hand in it also. It could just be that he preached at one of their events.
Joseph Miller
10-25-2007, 10:45 PM
Yes, this is the same group. It was a loose fellowship made up of several men. It seems like Ron Libby had a hand in it also. It could just be that he preached at one of their events.
Are you guys talking about the IAF?
stmatthew
10-25-2007, 10:54 PM
Are you guys talking about the IAF?
Yes
Joseph Miller
10-25-2007, 10:59 PM
The IAF is not an organization. There are people who are members of it that are in various organizations. As a matter of fact, one of the livingstons pastor a UPC church in Nashville and also is with the IAF.
The IAF is not an organization. There are people who are members of it that are in various organizations. As a matter of fact, one of the livingstons pastor a UPC church in Nashville and also is with the IAF.
If a UPCI licensed or ordained minister also belongs to another group like IAF, is that considered a violation of the rules in the Manual?
Joseph Miller
10-26-2007, 10:32 PM
If a UPCI licensed or ordained minister also belongs to another group like IAF, is that considered a violation of the rules in the Manual?
I don't think so. The IAF is just a fellowship and not an organization.
nwlife
10-27-2007, 03:36 AM
Well than we could all hash and rehash and dissect the letter.
Well if they did send a letter, it was only to the pastors, as being licensed in the ALJC I never recieved anything about any possible merger.
stmatthew
10-27-2007, 05:34 PM
If a UPCI licensed or ordained minister also belongs to another group like IAF, is that considered a violation of the rules in the Manual?
I don't think so. The IAF is just a fellowship and not an organization.
I believe you are correct. A UPC man can be a part of the AWCF, IAF, or any other group that simply is a fellowship.
This was a thought on the Tulsa group at one point I believe. If they decided to go with a loose fellowship, they could still hold their license with the UPC without going against the bylaws.
Steve Epley
10-27-2007, 06:45 PM
I believe you are correct. A UPC man can be a part of the AWCF, IAF, or any other group that simply is a fellowship.
This was a thought on the Tulsa group at one point I believe. If they decided to go with a loose fellowship, they could still hold their license with the UPC without going against the bylaws.
I do not think that is correct. Someone who knows help us.
trent4
10-27-2007, 08:14 PM
If that's the organization Bishop Peters was in, I think I stumbled onto their web site once. About the only things i remember was that it was not a very large group and that Deon Turner was in it. Deon had been part of the ALJC church that I went to back in the nineteen sixties and seventies but he had left there and gone to Bristol, Virginia or Tennessee wherever it was and started a church. I think there was something different about their belief about communion but I'm not sure now.
DO you know Deon Turner? He is such a kind man. He is in Ireland for a few more weeks. He pastors in Manville, VA now.
trent4
10-27-2007, 08:16 PM
I'm not familiar with the IAF.
I don't remember ever hearing about them before.
It is listed as an Apostolic organization at
http://www.apostolic-churches.com/organizations.html
but if I try to go to the IAF site, the link doesn't work.
The IAF website is in the stage of being rebuilt....when it is up and running I will post a link on here if ya'll want.
DO you know Deon Turner? He is such a kind man. He is in Ireland for a few more weeks. He pastors in Manville, VA now.
I never met Deon Turner.
He was no longer going to the Carthage Apostolic Church when I started there in the early nineteen sixties.
faithfulinlittle777
11-01-2007, 10:01 AM
Thaddeaus(thats my name for u my fellow poster)....i think its kinda cool..nyways...thaddeaus, no offical corrrespondence from kenneth on this merger...cant be done unless district board approves...i dont see that happenening in st. louis...the guys have been upci 2 long for this to change....again, no official confirmation of carla dean's father's org public statement
:)this is what i know from an offical card carrier of the upci
faithfulinlittle777
11-01-2007, 10:03 AM
n why is there a red triangle in my right hand corner of my screen?
hmm...just curious thats all....not trying to rock the boat...just wandering...guess its procedure....
Thaddeaus(thats my name for u my fellow poster)....i think its kinda cool..nyways...thaddeaus, no offical corrrespondence from kenneth on this merger...cant be done unless district board approves...i dont see that happenening in st. louis...the guys have been upci 2 long for this to change....again, no official confirmation of carla dean's father's org public statement
:)this is what i know from an offical card carrier of the upci
There was someone (a member here) who said they saw the letter and was trying to scan and post it . I'm STILL WAITING TOO!!!!!!!!!
hope they are reading this ! ! !! ! ! ! !
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