View Full Version : [[WOW]] PAULA & RANDY's W/O Walls church under investigation from a SENATOR!!!
http://www2. tbo.com/content/ 2007/nov/ 06/na-without- walls-finances- face-
Have you Heard that Latest in the Without Walls Church Scandal???????
A U.S Senator is stepping to investigate this whole thing ! ! !
http://www2. tbo.com/content/ 2007/nov/ 06/na-without- walls-finances- face-
(
http://www2. tbo.com/content/ 2007/nov/ 06/na-without- walls-finances- face-
)
senators-scrutiny/
Having some diffuculty posting the links - bear with me for a minute
Sandra
11-06-2007, 10:24 AM
Thad, this has be on going for awhile. Just hitting the news now.
** This From the Tampa Tribune ***
By MICHELLE BEARDEN and BAIRD HELGESON, The Tampa Tribune
Published: November 6, 2007
Questions And Answers:
What Happens Next?
Special Report: Previous Coverage, Videos, Photos
Video: Finances Probed
Comment: Should Churches Have To Answer The Government's Questions?
Read The Letters:
Without Walls International Church
World Healing Center Church, Inc.
New Birth Missionary Baptist Church
World Changers Church International
Joyce Meyer Ministries
Kenneth Copeland Ministries
TAMPA - The ranking member of the Senate Committee on Finance has launched an investigative review of possible misuse of donations made to Without Walls International Church and Paula White Ministries, along with five other Christian organizations.
Letters were faxed Monday by Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, requesting ministry leaders respond by Dec. 6 to a wide range of questions regarding their personal and organizational finances. The senator expects full cooperation, he said in a statement released by his staff.
"It's about time some sanity is brought to these religious nonprofits," said Ole Anthony, founder of Trinity Foundation, a Dallas-based televangelist watchdog organization. "Some are committing outright fraud, and it's getting worse, not better, as time goes on."
Grassley, former chairman of the finance committee, said his requests for information came in response to complaints from the public and news coverage about practices at the six ministries. The allegations involve governing boards that aren't independent and allow generous salaries and housing allowances for church leaders, and amenities such as private jets and Rolls-Royces.
"I don't want to conclude that there's a problem, but I have an obligation to donors and taxpayers to find out more," he wrote. "People who donated should have their money spent as intended and in adherence with the tax code."
Besides the Whites, letters went to Benny Hinn of World Healing Center Church of Grapevine, Texas; David and Joyce Meyer of Joyce Meyer Ministries of Fenton, Mo.; Kenneth and Gloria Copeland of Kenneth Copeland Ministries of Newark, Texas; Bishop Eddie Long of New Birth Missionary Baptist Church of Lithonia, Ga., and Creflo and Taffi Dollar of World Changers Church International of College Park, Ga.
In a five-page letter to Randy and Paula White, Grassley asked for detailed information on 28 areas of church and personal finances, mainly from the years 2004 to present. Some of those include:
•A detailed explanation of the compensation paid to the Whites, as well as cash and noncash gifts, housing allowances and personal use of assets.
•A detailed list of any expenses paid for by their church or ministries toward the purchases and monthly maintenance of their residences on Bayshore Boulevard in Tampa, and in New York, San Antonio and Malibu, Calif.
•Credit card statements for expenses paid by the Whites' tax-exempt entity, including a list of all expense account items such as clothing and cosmetic surgery.
•A list of all domestic and overseas bank accounts and investments belonging to their organizations.
•A list of all vehicles purchased, leased or maintained by their tax-exempt organizations.
•Copies of flight records of any aircraft leased or owned by their ministries, as well as flight itineraries for both the Whites.
•A copy of the bill of sale, type of payment used and an explanation of the reported tax-exempt purchase of a Bentley convertible as a gift for Bishop T.D. Jakes.
•A detailed accounting of $871,000 worth of items reportedly sold to the church since 2005 by two of the private businesses owned by the Whites, and an explanation as to who determined that the church would purchase these items.
•An explanation of who determines how the funds of Without Walls and Paula White Ministries are spent, copies of all board minutes and whether any of the decisions, both operational and financial, are subject to oversight by an elected or appointed body.
Randy and Paula White, who founded Without Walls in 1991 and divorced this year, reacted Monday to the Grassley letter in a statement released by their public relations firm, Tucker/Hall. Representatives from the other ministries did not respond to a request for comment.
Whites Call Letter 'Unusual'
The Whites said they were initially notified of the letter by a reporter, and found it peculiar that the media learned of it before they did.
"We're assuming it's authentic - but we find it unusual, since the IRS has separate powers to investigate religious organizations if they think it's necessary," the statement said. "So we find it odd that the IRS did not initiate this investigation. It also seems odd that they have asked about areas that have no relationship to the operation of the church."
The Whites said they could not comment further because they had just received the letter and their lawyers had not finished reviewing it.
This year, The Tampa Tribune detailed problems at Without Walls, one of the largest independent nondenominational churches in the nation. Detractors said the Whites borrowed $170,000 from an elderly widow and failed to keep promises to care for her or pay it back. A young woman who said she was promised a house for winning a church essay contest did not get it, though the church repeatedly publicized the award ceremony.
The Whites have since repaid the widow and secured a house for the young woman. After inquiries from the Tribune, the church published an audit of its 2005 and 2006 finances on its Web site. It states that the church took in $39.9 million in 2006 and itemizes some of its spending. It does not break down how much was spent on specific ministries or on salaries for its top staff.
That a U.S. senator is asking about finances, and not the IRS, doesn't surprise Anthony, whose organization has provided information to the Finance Committee for more than two years.
"You've got approximately 1.5 million nonprofit organizations in America, and 30,000 starting up each year," he said. "The government can't possibly keep up with that workload. But it's apparent that media coverage isn't enough to expose this. If anything is going to change, it takes a drastic step like this."
'He's Picking A Fight'
Kenneth Behr, president of the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability, an accreditation agency for Christian ministries, called the inquiry "a very big deal." He said he is not aware of a high-ranking lawmaker ever undertaking such an extensive investigation into so many churches.
"I think he's picking a fight," Behr said. "He is not just asking them to come in and talk, he is asking them for everything."
And if they don't tell all, he predicted, Grassley could ask the IRS to step in.
"An IRS audit is not pleasant," said the former Ford Motor Co. executive. "I wouldn't wish it on my enemy."
Gloria Sutton, an IRS spokeswoman in Jacksonville, would not comment on Grassley's letters or how the agency might respond. She could not say how many churches the IRS has audited in recent years.
The churches probably can't take refuge in laws governing the separation of church and state. Religious organizations are subject to all sorts of government regulations, said Ayesha N. Khan, legal director for Americans United for Separation of Church and State.
If the churches don't respond, or don't respond in full, Grassley could push for a hearing before the Senate Finance Committee.
Ministries Teach Prosperity Gospel
Rodney Pitzer, of a North Carolina-based donor advocacy organization called Ministrywatch.com, said some ministries are purposefully designed to make their leaders wealthy. He said he hopes the Senate inquiry will encourage religious organizations to "start cleaning house."
"Some of these nonprofits really know how to work the system," he said. "They may be in compliance with the law, but they're certainly not in compliance with the heart and the spirit of the law."
The pressure to change the laws will have to come from donors rather than the government, said Ted Olsen, managing editor for news and online journalism at Christianity Today.
But the ministries targeted by Grassley are in a subgroup of the Christian evangelical movement that Olsen calls the "health-and-wealth crowd." They preach prosperity Gospel, a teaching that promises material rewards for those who give to the church.
"There's little fear of donor backlash when your donors see opulence as a sign of God's blessing," he said.
Even a national Christian publication that has given favorable coverage to ministries such as Without Walls is taking a harder look.
Lee Grady, editor of Charisma magazine, is now calling for financial reform in Christian evangelical circles. He is bothered that some ministries are giving "all of us a bad name because money has been misused."
"This is an awkward time for the church," Grady said. "I believe God is putting his finger on some problems and demanding that we set our house in order. If we don't correct these problems ourselves, then the government may have to step in and do it. And that will be unfortunate."
Tips For Donors
Guidelines For Nonprofits
Should Churches Have To Answer The Government's Questions?
Reporter Michelle Bearden can be reached at (813) 259-7613 or mbearden@tampatrib.com. Reporter Baird Helgeson can be reached at (813) 259-7668 or bhelgeson@tampatrib.com.
**** EXTRA ****EXTRA ***EXTRA ***
Word is also out that Channel 9 in Orlando Did a story on Zachery Tims and it's JUST the beginning !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sandra
11-06-2007, 10:47 AM
**** EXTRA ****EXTRA ***EXTRA ***
Word is also out that Channel 9 in Orlando Did a story on Zachery Tims and it's JUST the beginning !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is truly a sad story, I really love Zachary, he has the sweetest wife and 4 children. I am praying for him today.
chaotic_resolve
11-06-2007, 11:50 AM
It's about time someone challenges the rock star lifestyle of some of these televangelists.
I have a feeling it could get nasty though. I doubt these people will willingly give up their financial records . . . especially if there's any kind of impropriety. Not sure about legal stuff, but I could see this kind of thing going to court.
Kudos to Grassley though.
It's about time someone challenges the rock star lifestyle of some of these televangelists.
I have a feeling it could get nasty though. I doubt these people will willingly give up their financial records . . . especially if there's any kind of impropriety. Not sure about legal stuff, but I could see this kind of thing going to court.
Kudos to Grassley though.
Rock style lifestyle or walking in Prosperity/God's blessings ??
just wondering which you think it is ??
Sandra
11-06-2007, 11:52 AM
It's about time someone challenges the rock star lifestyle of some of these televangelists.
I have a feeling it could get nasty though. I doubt these people will willingly give up their financial records . . . especially if there's any kind of impropriety. Not sure about legal stuff, but I could see this kind of thing going to court.
Kudos to Grassley though.
Paula White has her financials posted on her website.
* * * Question & Anwsers from the Senator * * *
Looks like he wants to push to Tax the churches as a result of all of this !
How sad ! ! !
This will be interesting. The senator makes it clear that some of there ministries are treating the ministry as if it were their personal company and notes the lack of transparency. Towards the end, he states that there is to be no personal financial gain which has been the case for all six ministries. He states that the way churches are operating has changed, but the laws haven't changed. Well, within the next five years the church will no longer be tax exempt reason...the gospel of GREED, but it's about time.
Here's the File
http://media.tbo.com/tbo/pdfs/110507answers.pdf
Sandra
11-06-2007, 11:55 AM
* * * Question & Anwsers from the Senator * * *
Looks like he wants to push to Tax the churches as a result of all of this !
How sad ! ! !
This will be interesting. The senator makes it clear that some of there ministries are treating the ministry as if it were their personal company and notes the lack of transparency. Towards the end, he states that there is to be no personal financial gain which has been the case for all six ministries. He states that the way churches are operating has changed, but the laws haven't changed. Well, within the next five years the church will no longer be tax exempt reason...the gospel of GREED, but it's about time.
Here's the File
http://media.tbo.com/tbo/pdfs/110507answers.pdf
It won't happen, that would include the Catholic Church.
The Catholic Church is the reason Churches don't pay taxes now.
I don't think it will happen. JMO
I sure hope not but there is a lot of investigating going on.
this senator seems to be on a mission
there is a whole list of links of various ministers that are coming under the gun
ChicagoPastor
11-06-2007, 12:06 PM
Thad, one of my elders prophecied that the US in going down the same road as Canada and Europe and that sooner or later Churches will be taxed and have to pay taxes.....no more tax exemption.
If America doesn't get right we would be like Europe....massive cathedrals/buildings but no one coming to them.
Sandra
11-06-2007, 12:07 PM
The problem he will face is of the 6 ministries that he has listed ,I know for a fact that 4 of them ask for a IRS audit every month. They request it, most TV ministries so this.
revrandy
11-06-2007, 12:17 PM
It is sad to see what the wolves do to sheep...
It will be dark stain on Christianity...
TBN is a Sinking ship no doubt...
I saw the Money raising going on...and I USED to have respect for ROD Parsley a bit.. but lost it all when I saw what he was doing... pure manipulation...
It is sad to see what the wolves do to sheep...
It will be dark stain on Christianity...
TBN is a Sinking ship no doubt...
I saw the Money raising going on...and I USED to have respect for ROD Parsley a bit.. but lost it all when I saw what he was doing... pure manipulation...
Randy, I have some Questions for you:
who are you referring specifically as a wolf?? there are several on this list
what caused you to lose respect for ROD P ?? what did you see him doing specifically ???
MrsMcD
11-06-2007, 12:36 PM
It is sad to see what the wolves do to sheep...
It will be dark stain on Christianity...
TBN is a Sinking ship no doubt...
I saw the Money raising going on...and I USED to have respect for ROD Parsley a bit.. but lost it all when I saw what he was doing... pure manipulation...
What is RP doing? I normally like to listen to him when he is not screaming to much.
What is RP doing? I normally like to listen to him when he is not screaming to much.
Randy????????????????
I'm wondering the same thing
revrandy
11-06-2007, 12:53 PM
Begging for Money for TBN... they were fund raising...
He promised what he called "Divine Health" for One year if someone would
give 10,000 Dollars... and "Divine Finance" for one year for 10,000 Dollar offering... It made realize how Sick these folks really are...
Begging for Money for TBN... they were fund raising...
He promised what he called "Divine Health" for One year if someone would
give 10,000 Dollars... and "Divine Finance" for one year for 10,000 Dollar offering... It made realize how Sick these folks really are...
wow! I hate that kind of stuff!!!
and WHY would he do that when he gets up a critisizes others for doing it
MrsMcD
11-06-2007, 12:56 PM
Begging for Money for TBN... they were fund raising...
He promised what he called "Divine Health" for One year if someone would
give 10,000 Dollars... and "Divine Finance" for one year for 10,000 Dollar offering... It made realize how Sick these folks really are...
:nod
revrandy
11-06-2007, 12:57 PM
wow! I hate that kind of stuff!!!
and WHY would he do that when he gets up a critisizes others for doing it
Maybe Sandra Knows??? She's been there alot...
*** NEWS BULLETIN ***
you can watch a video clip from Fox tampa -
http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/myfox/
They are doing an extensive news coverage of this news development
crakjak
11-07-2007, 08:09 AM
http://www2. tbo.com/content/ 2007/nov/ 06/na-without- walls-finances- face-
Have you Heard that Latest in the Without Walls Church Scandal???????
A U.S Senator is stepping to investigate this whole thing ! ! !
Scripture tells us to,"... judge ourselves, that we be not judged!!" If we can't tell ourselves "NO" then someone else will.
Elizabeth
11-07-2007, 08:18 AM
They updated that segment last night on Rick Hawkins, very disturbing to say the least. GAG!
Is Paula White and RH romantically involved???
I find it interesting though, that there are some similarities in both Paula's and Rick's preaching style, if you listen to the segment you'll know what I mean :D
revrandy
11-07-2007, 08:21 AM
They updated that segment last night on Rick Hawkins, very disturbing to say the least. GAG!
Is Paula White and RH romantically involved???
I find it interesting though, that there are some similarities in both Paula's and Rick's preaching style, if you listen to the segment you'll know what I mean :D
I doubt "romance" would have much to do with it according to the "News"...:donuts
Steve Epley
11-07-2007, 08:21 AM
As much as I dispise this type of religious activity any intrusion by the government into internal church affairs is not good for all churches. Their followers give them their money freely and evidently have no problem with their lifestyle so to me it is no one else's business. If folks didn't like it they would go and give somewhere else.
Elizabeth
11-07-2007, 08:23 AM
I doubt "romance" would have much to do with it according to the "News"...:donuts
:eek:I think I am on the wrong thread, sorry!
Digging4Truth
11-07-2007, 08:39 AM
As much as I despise this type of religious activity any intrusion by the government into internal church affairs is not good for all churches. Their followers give them their money freely and evidently have no problem with their lifestyle so to me it is no one else's business. If folks didn't like it they would go and give somewhere else.
Yes sir... That is so true.
As much as I dispise this type of religious activity any intrusion by the government into internal church affairs is not good for all churches. Their followers give them their money freely and evidently have no problem with their lifestyle so to me it is no one else's business. If folks didn't like it they would go and give somewhere else.
Bro Epley the Problem comes when/or if they lie and say the funds are going to help the poor,the needy, or for the church all the while buying bentleys with the money etc.
Steve Epley
11-07-2007, 10:18 AM
Bro Epley the Problem comes when/or if they lie and say the funds are going to help the poor,the needy, or for the church all the while buying bentleys with the money etc.
Thad thse folks flaunt their lifestyles. Nothing is restrained their people know it and love it. The gaudier the better. So if the folks giving the money don't care and really want it why should outsiders care? They preacher prosperity and get rich gospel. The type of folks they draw evidently want to hear that and need that. They willingly give to these (con-folks) thus they like being conned. It is none of the government's business. Who also rob from the poor at threat of law.
crakjak
11-08-2007, 04:56 PM
They updated that segment last night on Rick Hawkins, very disturbing to say the least. GAG!
Is Paula White and RH romantically involved???
I find it interesting though, that there are some similarities in both Paula's and Rick's preaching style, if you listen to the segment you'll know what I mean :D
Yes, "....and ahhh......and ahhh":tease
seguidordejesus
11-08-2007, 05:14 PM
A copy of the bill of sale, type of payment used and an explanation of the reported tax-exempt purchase of a Bentley convertible as a gift for Bishop T.D. Jakes.
I'd love to hear the explanation of that one
PastorD
11-08-2007, 09:21 PM
What about the "oneness, apostolic, uc in Louisiana that is building an 17,000 sq. foot home? Doesn't that seem excessive when the majority of his saints live in trailers?
Pastor G
11-08-2007, 09:44 PM
What about the "oneness, apostolic, uc in Louisiana that is building an 17,000 sq. foot home? Doesn't that seem excessive when the majority of his saints live in trailers?
well pastor d who might you be speaking of... I didn't know there was but one uc in LA...
PastorD
11-08-2007, 09:48 PM
well pastor d who might you be speaking of... I didn't know there was but one uc in LA...
he is a "major" independent
Praxeas
11-09-2007, 01:46 AM
I don't understand this stuff about congressional investigations into a church and their funds...what does congress have to do with that?
Sandra
11-09-2007, 08:08 AM
he is a "major" independent
would he be from Melville, La??
Whole Hearted
11-09-2007, 08:17 AM
well pastor d who might you be speaking of... I didn't know there was but one uc in LA...
There ae still quite a few conservatives in LA. Most are ind,., but there ae still some UPC Conservatives or as some here would call them ultra cons.
PastorD
11-09-2007, 11:45 AM
would he be from Melville, La??
Sandra is smart!
Praxeas
11-09-2007, 12:27 PM
Sandra is smart!
She can make it go. We are not smart. We are far from home.
http://www.eskimo.com/%7Ebpentium/pakleds/pakled10.jpg
Sandra
11-09-2007, 03:14 PM
Sandra is smart!
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...... RM???
revrandy
11-09-2007, 03:23 PM
I know of a Pastor in California who sold his home...seemed to give a lot of the money to the church and moved in a much more inexpensive home because according to him he shouldn't live "above" his Saints...
to me that is extremely commendable... and honorable...
Michael Phelps
11-09-2007, 03:29 PM
I guess I wasn't under the impression that RM's saints lived in mobile homes.......thought he had a fairly affluent congregation.
Sandra
11-09-2007, 03:33 PM
I guess I wasn't under the impression that RM's saints lived in mobile homes.......thought he had a fairly affluent congregation.
They don't, I say go for it RM!! This man has made the right personal investments aside from the church.
chosenbyone
11-09-2007, 04:22 PM
They don't, I say go for it RM!! This man has made the right personal investments aside from the church.
Great post, Vicki! My grandfather was a pastor his entire adult life. He lived a pretty frugal lifestyle in comparison to many in the ministry, but he invested his money wisely and when he passed my grandmother didn't have to worry about anything when it came to her financial future.
Most of the family was shocked when they heard of all the real estate and other investments he had acquired through the years. When he was alive, they drove the same two cars for as long as I could remember, because he didn't see a need to spend money on a car when the ones he owned were still working.
One of the first things that my sweet, humble grandmother did after his passing was to go and pay cash for that brand new Cadillac she had wanted for years. Oh, she also had a complete make over, which included cutting her hair, jewelry and she wore make up for the first time. I guess that was just her way of expressing herself, since she really didn't have that opportunity while my grandfather was alive. BTW, she has since mellowed and found balance, thank goodness...
Whole Hearted
11-09-2007, 05:05 PM
Great post, Vicki! My grandfather was a pastor his entire adult life. He lived a pretty frugal lifestyle in comparison to many in the ministry, but he invested his money wisely and when he passed my grandmother didn't have to worry about anything when it came to her financial future.
Most of the family was shocked when they heard of all the real estate and other investments he had acquired through the years. When he was alive, they drove the same two cars for as long as I could remember, because he didn't see a need to spend money on a car when the ones he owned were still working.
One of the first things that my sweet, humble grandmother did after his passing was to go and pay cash for that brand new Cadillac she had wanted for years. Oh, she also had a complete make over, which included cutting her hair, jewelry and she wore make up for the first time. I guess that was just her way of expressing herself, since she really didn't have that opportunity while my grandfather was alive. BTW, she has since mellowed and found balance, thank goodness...
One of the saddest thing I have ever read.
Sandra
11-09-2007, 05:08 PM
Great post, Vicki! My grandfather was a pastor his entire adult life. He lived a pretty frugal lifestyle in comparison to many in the ministry, but he invested his money wisely and when he passed my grandmother didn't have to worry about anything when it came to her financial future.
Most of the family was shocked when they heard of all the real estate and other investments he had acquired through the years. When he was alive, they drove the same two cars for as long as I could remember, because he didn't see a need to spend money on a car when the ones he owned were still working.
One of the first things that my sweet, humble grandmother did after his passing was to go and pay cash for that brand new Cadillac she had wanted for years. Oh, she also had a complete make over, which included cutting her hair, jewelry and she wore make up for the first time. I guess that was just her way of expressing herself, since she really didn't have that opportunity while my grandfather was alive. BTW, she has since mellowed and found balance, thank goodness...
One of the saddest thing I have ever read.:tease:tease:tease:tease:tease:tease:D
Steve Epley
11-09-2007, 06:45 PM
The preacher is NOT RM and his folks certainly are not in poverty and he has been an astute business man.
Whole Hearted
11-09-2007, 08:22 PM
[QUOTE=Whole Hearted;297676]:tease:tease:tease:tease:tease:tease:D
:lalala:lalala
chosenbyone
11-09-2007, 08:50 PM
Great post, Vicki! My grandfather was a pastor his entire adult life. He lived a pretty frugal lifestyle in comparison to many in the ministry, but he invested his money wisely and when he passed my grandmother didn't have to worry about anything when it came to her financial future.
Most of the family was shocked when they heard of all the real estate and other investments he had acquired through the years. When he was alive, they drove the same two cars for as long as I could remember, because he didn't see a need to spend money on a car when the ones he owned were still working.
One of the first things that my sweet, humble grandmother did after his passing was to go and pay cash for that brand new Cadillac she had wanted for years. Oh, she also had a complete make over, which included cutting her hair, jewelry and she wore make up for the first time. I guess that was just her way of expressing herself, since she really didn't have that opportunity while my grandfather was alive. BTW, she has since mellowed and found balance, thank goodness...
One of the saddest thing I have ever read.
My post wasn't meant to sadden anyone. My grandfather was COG through and through and he held to the "standards" of the old COG before the mid 1970's that mirrored many of the standards in Apostolic churches. My grandmother never saw those things as being an issue, but being his wife she submitted to his wishes.
I knew that my grandfather struggled with the Oneness doctrine by reading many of his personal notes and in his bible after he passed. One of the things that he had written in his bible next the Acts 2:38 was "very hard to explain". His oldest daughter who was the second in our family to get baptized in Jesus name after me had attended the UPC church for decades and had many conversations with him on the subject. Aunt Betty had married my uncle who was UPC and she believed the message and played the piano at their church, but wasn't baptized until my grandfather died. Additionally, I didn't go back to an Apostolic church after being baptized at 15 until after his death. My grandfather was a man that we all loved and respected very much. It was from that love and respect that we did what he wished, especially not wanting to upset him in his later years while he battled cancer.
If it wasn't for his long affiliation and the obvious commitment that he felt toward the COG denomination, I believed he would have accepted the truth. You've heard it said that people who were the biggest opponents of certain ideas or lifestyles were usually the ones who were unsure of their own. That would have been applicable to my grandfather and the Apostolic doctrine.
Today, nearly half of my grandfather's children and grandchildren are Apostolic.
PastorD
11-10-2007, 12:41 AM
J. Cox....and lest I be misunderstood, I am not against anyone being blessed or living large. The majority of the posts on the thread were about the charismatics lavish lifestyles. I am simply pointing out that "we" have the same thing going on. Anyone ever been to NW's multi-million dollar home?
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