Has "Church" become a "Family Business"??

[SecretWarrior]

I see many churches where the Children of the Pastor have now grown and many have stayed home to become Asst. Pastors/Assoc. Pastors and Women's Pastors/ Church Secretary/ and then their children become leaders and there is not much room for others...

and the Family Name becomes iconic symbol of the Church...

Is this wrong?

There is a church I have friend who attends there and the Pastor's Married Daughter literally runs the Church. It is rather large but it is known that her word is like coming from the Mouth of the Pastor and to say something against her or have a different idea is something that is not much appreciated or accepted...

and her husband a evangelist is out preaching 3/4 of the month....

now there may nothing wrong in this... or with this...but is the Family who Leads the Church becoming to powerful in the Church?

Many Churches that have been run by the "family" seems to be losing many members that have been there for years... IS this an isolated incident or do people actually after awhile tire of this happening?

[Truthseeker]

in many places it has become a family business where it's past on to the son or son in law. It comes from not following biblical eldership/ministry.

[freeatlast]

in many places it has become a family business where it's past on to the son or son in law. It comes from not following biblical eldership/ministry.

Saw this happen in my former church. He often preached to the church a message that should have been titled, " Hey. you have to love my wife"

Really hurt a the church. They finally resigned and moved on, but not before much damage was done.

Nepotism is a sad thing in almost all cases.

[Margies3]

I have seen this happen far too often.

Just want to point out tho that it is not only in Apostolic circles that this is going on. Look at many of the mega-ministry works out there. Even including ones like Billy Graham (not that Franklin Graham is bad, but........)

[SDG]

Many believe the ministry is still LEVITICAL.

[RandyWayne]

My first reaction is that it is a bit unfair to say or imply it is a problem with the Apostolic community (which it IS a problem by the way) because it is a problem with everyone and everything. Politics, business, sports, "special" clubs, and even the mafia. It is all about relations, who you know and who knows you. And yes, even in the church.

[Truthseeker]

Saw this happen in my former church. He often preached to the church a message that should have been titled, " Hey. you have to love my wife"

Really hurt a the church. They finally resigned and moved on, but not before much damage was done.

Nepotism is a sad thing in almost all cases.

Amen, might shock some, but pastor wife is not a position in the church.

[ReformedDave]

I have seen this happen far too often.

Just want to point out tho that it is not only in Apostolic circles that this is going on. Look at many of the mega-ministry works out there. Even including ones like Billy Graham (not that Franklin Graham is bad, but........)

Don't forget that the Graham ministry is a parachurch organization and not a church.

[RandyWayne]

Amen, might shock some, but pastor wife is not a position in the church.

Years ago, I was using a web site called the ChristianCafe.com and a good 40-50% of the women there wanted to be "pastors wives" -and nothing else would do! It makes me think that many DO consider it an actual position. Sort of like being "Queen".

[daddyof2]

Ahhhh yes...

These threads come up every once in a while.

While there are certainly sons and son-laws of pastors who are not qualified to feel the pulpit many are. Many have given their (sons) beside their parents helping to dig out a work in a city. Many have a calling to that city and a burden for that city. Many have worked very hard....so don't lump everyone together. :bubble

[Truthseeker]

Ahhhh yes...

These threads come up every once in a while.

While there are certainly sons and son-laws of pastors who are not qualified to feel the pulpit many are. Many have given their (sons) beside their parents helping to dig out a work in a city. Many have a calling to that city and a burden for that city. Many have worked very hard....so don't lump everyone together. :bubble


No ones denying a son can actaully be called to minister, but it does seem to more nepotism then calling, IMO.

Working hard doesn't mean calling.

If we would follow biblical eldership alot of this would be resolved.

[Jack Shephard]

I was in a church for several years and it was the same case. The founding pastors daugther and the founding pastors wife run the church. Most of the time the men, the founding pastor and the associate pastor spend time cleaning up messes that that these two create. This church has been around for 30+ years and it is very set in its way. The daughter was on all the church bank accounts too. Alot of trouble came out of that. I feel that the founding pastor should at some point retire the pastorate and move out to another spot. It is very tough with each new generation that the pastor's last name become elevated beyond what it should be. I think it can destroy a church. But it all comes down to the pastor letting this stuff happen. IMO

[Neck]

I see many churches where the Children of the Pastor have now grown and many have stayed home to become Asst. Pastors/Assoc. Pastors and Women's Pastors/ Church Secretary/ and then their children become leaders and there is not much room for others...

and the Family Name becomes iconic symbol of the Church...

Is this wrong?

There is a church I have friend who attends there and the Pastor's Married Daughter literally runs the Church. It is rather large but it is known that her word is like coming from the Mouth of the Pastor and to say something against her or have a different idea is something that is not much appreciated or accepted...

and her husband a evangelist is out preaching 3/4 of the month....

now there may nothing wrong in this... or with this...but is the Family who Leads the Church becoming to powerful in the Church?

Many Churches that have been run by the "family" seems to be losing many members that have been there for years... IS this an isolated incident or do people actually after awhile tire of this happening?

It is when you have other parts connected to the church. Such as a school etc.

Where for years the help is paid almost nothing.

Then the kids of the pastor grow up get their education and the salaries quadruple.

Add in the free daycare and it is a dream job.

[Sister Alvear]

I try to look at this question through mature eyes. I am deeply grateful our sons followered us into ministry however Raul Jr (our oldest) does not pastor the church we pastored one of our Brazilian preachers pastores it. Here in the northeast our sons help in the church but Brother Alvear has told them they will only be pastor IF the people want them to be at some future date. Our son that we thought one day might be the pastor here although we never said nothing to him about it moved to the north to the jungle to be a missionary up there.
We had two others (not sons) that we thought in time might work out for the church but they fizzled out. Right now our ass. pastors are our son Michael and Pastor Mosies a good Brazilian brother.
We are happy our children help us but to say they are in line for our church would only be if God spoke to Brother Alvear and the people.
Brother Alvear and I want what is best for the work and what is best for our children being the pastor here might over load them. Pastor Mosies just wants to be a helper so we are waiting for who God wants...We do not plan to throw away years of faithful service to someone that is not called...and Brother Alvear has made that point clear to our sons.

I often feel sorry for those that really do have the call of God on their life for they too feel pressure to measure up to dad and mom.

There are many things to consider and GOD`S will is the most important thing...

[Margies3]

In the Methodist church (and in many other denominations), when a pastor retires from a church, he is not allowed to purchase a house in the same town (or any town where he has pastored) to settle down there. They have to relocate to a place where they have never pastored.

the reasoning for this is because they fear that if the pastor stays in that church, the people will not look to the new pastor as their shepherd. They will not be able to cut the ties with the old pastor.

[Chosen]

Unfortunately nepotism is more the norm than the exception and no it is not limited to the UPCI.

Some do see it as a business and don't want tp turn over "their hard work" ( its GOD's work always has been always will be),to someone who is not telated, calling is the least of considerations obviously, when this happens.

I have seen a church put on auto-pilot for 4 years when the pastor could not productively lead much less preach, while they gave time for the son to decide if he wanted the church or not.

The worst part about it was that the ditrict saw that the pastor was not able to preach any more but in essence allowed a church to go pastorless out of respect to the pastor and his wishes and turned a blind eye to the whole situation.

As always when there is a power play the ones who suffer are the sheep, while others jockey for position....at any cost.

[Sam]

Ahhhh yes...

These threads come up every once in a while.

While there are certainly sons and son-laws of pastors who are not qualified to feel the pulpit many are. Many have given their (sons) beside their parents helping to dig out a work in a city. Many have a calling to that city and a burden for that city. Many have worked very hard....so don't lump everyone together. :bubble

Some sane words

[Praxeas]

I see many churches where the Children of the Pastor have now grown and many have stayed home to become Asst. Pastors/Assoc. Pastors and Women's Pastors/ Church Secretary/ and then their children become leaders and there is not much room for others...

and the Family Name becomes iconic symbol of the Church...

Is this wrong?

There is a church I have friend who attends there and the Pastor's Married Daughter literally runs the Church. It is rather large but it is known that her word is like coming from the Mouth of the Pastor and to say something against her or have a different idea is something that is not much appreciated or accepted...

and her husband a evangelist is out preaching 3/4 of the month....

now there may nothing wrong in this... or with this...but is the Family who Leads the Church becoming to powerful in the Church?

Many Churches that have been run by the "family" seems to be losing many members that have been there for years... IS this an isolated incident or do people actually after awhile tire of this happening?
It's called Nepotism

[daddyof2]

No ones denying a son can actaully be called to minister, but it does seem to more nepotism then calling, IMO.

Working hard doesn't mean calling.

If we would follow biblical eldership alot of this would be resolved.

I can understand if you believe in the whole biblical eldership deal...not that I agree with it...but oh well...

However, it is pretty ridiculous to throw all preacher's and their sons in the same basket. There are a lot of cases where the son is called to preach and he is called to pastor the church after his father. :donuts

[RD Cox]

Who called them?

[IAintMovin]

OK read the first page and saw that there are many or at least a few who think that it may be wrong for a son or son in law to follow a father or FIL.

Let me try to weigh in on the other side of the coin. In many cases of a church that has grown that son or SIL has been there through the process and understands what makes the church run and why elements are put in place and why certain things are done. They literally become part of the fabric of that church. Many times, not every time, when someone is brought in that has not been there it brings distruction. There are times that distruction comes from turning it over to a family member too.

My point is simply this, If God is in the process, then there is nothing wrong with a son or SIL talking over at the right time, and naturally if God is not in it, then it will fail.

I really dont think that there is a rock solid - this is the way it should be done every time - answer for this question. Each one comes around and has to be delt with on an individual basis.

Personally if God allows it to happen, I would be honored beyond measure if one of my sons were called to preach and pastor and then fill my shoes, or the same can be said of the one SIL that God has blessed us with that is a minister or if one of my other two daughters marry a minister who can fill the job, but again IT HAS TO BE A GOD THING.

And yes there have been times that some didnt listen to Him........but there have been many where people did.........

[commonsense]

Suffice it to say, it happens too often.

BTW, I think I may know the city on the original post, and yes this does happen.
I'm not against women preachers, but pastors wives and daughters shouldn't have any "power". Isn't the "man" the head? Isn't that the whole big deal on I Cor 11? What happened to Biblical authority?

[pelathais]

I see many churches where the Children of the Pastor have now grown and many have stayed home to become Asst. Pastors/Assoc. Pastors and Women's Pastors/ Church Secretary/ and then their children become leaders and there is not much room for others...

and the Family Name becomes iconic symbol of the Church...

Is this wrong?

There is a church I have friend who attends there and the Pastor's Married Daughter literally runs the Church. It is rather large but it is known that her word is like coming from the Mouth of the Pastor and to say something against her or have a different idea is something that is not much appreciated or accepted...

and her husband a evangelist is out preaching 3/4 of the month....

now there may nothing wrong in this... or with this...but is the Family who Leads the Church becoming to powerful in the Church?

Many Churches that have been run by the "family" seems to be losing many members that have been there for years... IS this an isolated incident or do people actually after awhile tire of this happening?
There is a pattern to what you describe. However, I've seen it work the other way too, where someone with family connections is deliberately passed over just for appearances sake.

The "Pastor's Married Daughter" you mention is probably an energetic extension of her older parents, and the parents have probably just gotten into the habit of delegating to her because she gets things done that they just don't have the time or energy to get to.

There's a lot of complexity to this. But I've seen cases like you describe where it all went wrong and because of the insistence upon keeping things in the family the church dies.

[Blubayou]

I am - you had to key to the whole issue of Family Business. It has to be a God thing- I have no problem with God placing a man ,whose ever family he is from ,as my minister. I do think there have been occasions- and I see an alarming trend in UPC- that sons, or son in laws were called to the ministry by the family or it was the occupation they knew to go into. This type of situation so often ends up in tragedy for the minister's family and the saints.

[anapko]

I see many churches where the Children of the Pastor have now grown and many have stayed home to become Asst. Pastors/Assoc. Pastors and Women's Pastors/ Church Secretary/ and then their children become leaders and there is not much room for others...

and the Family Name becomes iconic symbol of the Church...

Is this wrong?

There is a church I have friend who attends there and the Pastor's Married Daughter literally runs the Church. It is rather large but it is known that her word is like coming from the Mouth of the Pastor and to say something against her or have a different idea is something that is not much appreciated or accepted...

and her husband a evangelist is out preaching 3/4 of the month....

now there may nothing wrong in this... or with this...but is the Family who Leads the Church becoming to powerful in the Church?

Many Churches that have been run by the "family" seems to be losing many members that have been there for years... IS this an isolated incident or do people actually after awhile tire of this happening?


My experience: I married the daughter of a pastor of an Apostolic church. I became the Associate pastor, serving for close to 20 years. My In-laws were elderly and I began doing the role of pastor. I married, buried, counseled, preached with the consent of my In-laws. But...my sister-in-law had a son that she wanted to have the church. She kept telling her mama and daddy that her son was in direct line to have the church. Mind you, I married the pastor's daughter, her sister! But that wasn't good enough. Soon, my wife and I were forced to leave, it became that bad. So...to answer the question, YES, in my observation, churches are seriously guilty of nepotism, to the nth degree!

[pelathais]

My experience: I married the daughter of a pastor of an Apostolic church. I became the Associate pastor, serving for close to 20 years. My In-laws were elderly and I began doing the role of pastor. I married, buried, counseled, preached with the consent of my In-laws. But...my sister-in-law had a son that she wanted to have the church. She kept telling her mama and daddy that her son was in direct line to have the church. Mind you, I married the pastor's daughter, her sister! But that wasn't good enough. Soon, my wife and I were forced to leave, it became that bad. So...to answer the question, YES, in my observation, churches are seriously guilty of nepotism, to the nth degree!
I saw a similar situation once, family on family. The one that takes the cake for me was when the "heir" a son-in-law committed adultery and fell from the ministry. Since he wasn't going to inherit the family business- he and his wife decided that no one would. And no one did. Church was handed over to some out of state folks and the family dispersed.

[Chosen]

Addittionally "nepos" tend to protect "nepos to be "

I have seen sons who were handed a church go out of their way to
assure another son of a pastor would get a church, and lets be honest someone in a distroict with clout can sway many appointments.

It is sickening to say the least and I thought pyramid schemes were illegal.:bubble

[NW Pastor]

In scripture who, exactly, inherited a spiritual post from a parent? Other than the Levitical priesthood, which was fulfilled and done away with in Christ, what great son's followed great fathers? Moses' or Samuel's maybe?

We are not lords over God's heritage. The church is not our "family business". It is God's business. So many times the church passes to the children as a means of the patriarch to maintain control of or access to the finances of the church. Also, if the church goes to a non-family member, it is awkward for the oldtimers to stay around in the church they have been in for decades. So, this is a tough issue.

Having said that, the church is often remiss in its duty to support a pastor that gave 30 or 40 years of labor and life to the building of the kingdom. It's too bad we have come to this, though.

I guess all those "non-family member" preachers will have to go build their own churches. That, I suppose, is not such a bad consequence.

[Cindy]

OK read the first page and saw that there are many or at least a few who think that it may be wrong for a son or son in law to follow a father or FIL.

Let me try to weigh in on the other side of the coin. In many cases of a church that has grown that son or SIL has been there through the process and understands what makes the church run and why elements are put in place and why certain things are done. They literally become part of the fabric of that church. Many times, not every time, when someone is brought in that has not been there it brings distruction. There are times that distruction comes from turning it over to a family member too.

My point is simply this, If God is in the process, then there is nothing wrong with a son or SIL talking over at the right time, and naturally if God is not in it, then it will fail.

I really dont think that there is a rock solid - this is the way it should be done every time - answer for this question. Each one comes around and has to be delt with on an individual basis.

Personally if God allows it to happen, I would be honored beyond measure if one of my sons were called to preach and pastor and then fill my shoes, or the same can be said of the one SIL that God has blessed us with that is a minister or if one of my other two daughters marry a minister who can fill the job, but again IT HAS TO BE A GOD THING.

And yes there have been times that some didnt listen to Him........but there have been many where people did.........

AMEN! May be a little partial here but I love your family, and your preaching. And I believe God called you and your Dad.

[sallyjo76]

Amen, might shock some, but pastor wife is not a position in the church.

That's right it's not a calling. She should be respected because she is a saint of God, a sister in the Church and a Pastors wife.

[QueenEsther]

OK read the first page and saw that there are many or at least a few who think that it may be wrong for a son or son in law to follow a father or FIL.

Let me try to weigh in on the other side of the coin. In many cases of a church that has grown that son or SIL has been there through the process and understands what makes the church run and why elements are put in place and why certain things are done. They literally become part of the fabric of that church. Many times, not every time, when someone is brought in that has not been there it brings distruction. There are times that distruction comes from turning it over to a family member too.

My point is simply this, If God is in the process, then there is nothing wrong with a son or SIL talking over at the right time, and naturally if God is not in it, then it will fail.

I really dont think that there is a rock solid - this is the way it should be done every time - answer for this question. Each one comes around and has to be delt with on an individual basis.

Personally if God allows it to happen, I would be honored beyond measure if one of my sons were called to preach and pastor and then fill my shoes, or the same can be said of the one SIL that God has blessed us with that is a minister or if one of my other two daughters marry a minister who can fill the job, but again IT HAS TO BE A GOD THING.

And yes there have been times that some didnt listen to Him........but there have been many where people did.........



Very well said!! This is exactly how I feel about it also.

My father owned a business for many years and we all worked for him and if something happened to him one of us would have taken over because we had been there the whole time and we knew all the ins and outs and problems and what worked and what didn't work and he trusted us because he had trained us. To me it is the same with a church. Of course if it is not of God it won't work.

[George]

I can understand if you believe in the whole biblical eldership deal...not that I agree with it...but oh well...

However, it is pretty ridiculous to throw all preacher's and their sons in the same basket. There are a lot of cases where the son is called to preach and he is called to pastor the church after his father. :donuts

Thank you. There are many who have been called and doing a great work. I wouldn't want to be guilty of saying Anthony Mangun is not "called." He is an anointed man of God.

[chaotic_resolve]

I'm not too concerned with a Pastorate being handed down from Father to Son or another relative. What troubles me more is having the pastor's family in financial positions with the church. Too much trouble arises from a Pastor having his wife, son, daughter, or other family member placed in charge of the church finances.

My father wanted my brother to become Pastor after my father retired, but my brother refused. Felt it was best to have another, non-family member, become Pastor.

Unfortunately there are a scant few Pastors who view their Pastorate as a monarchy or dynasty. They want to keep control of the church and preserve their dynasty long after they've resigned or retired. They've spent years padding their retirement and have too much financially invested to have it taken or reduced by another. In those few cases, the saints suffer because of the selfishness of the Pastor. Instead of allowing God to place whomever He wills, the Pastor resists and places family or close friends in the position.

Again, I don't believe this is a wide-spread issue, but it does happen.

[Felicity]

OK read the first page and saw that there are many or at least a few who think that it may be wrong for a son or son in law to follow a father or FIL.

Let me try to weigh in on the other side of the coin. In many cases of a church that has grown that son or SIL has been there through the process and understands what makes the church run and why elements are put in place and why certain things are done. They literally become part of the fabric of that church. Many times, not every time, when someone is brought in that has not been there it brings distruction. There are times that distruction comes from turning it over to a family member too.

My point is simply this, If God is in the process, then there is nothing wrong with a son or SIL talking over at the right time, and naturally if God is not in it, then it will fail.

I really dont think that there is a rock solid - this is the way it should be done every time - answer for this question. Each one comes around and has to be delt with on an individual basis.

Personally if God allows it to happen, I would be honored beyond measure if one of my sons were called to preach and pastor and then fill my shoes, or the same can be said of the one SIL that God has blessed us with that is a minister or if one of my other two daughters marry a minister who can fill the job, but again IT HAS TO BE A GOD THING.

And yes there have been times that some didnt listen to Him........but there have been many where people did.........

As long as the congregation has an opportunity to vote I see no problem.

[StillStanding]

As long as the congregation has an opportunity to vote I see no problem.
Agreed! :thumbsup

Folks just don't want their next pastor crammed down their throat without a say!

[KarenJo]

It’s sad to see a son or grandson who has never worked a full time job or have any college experience be placed in a full time paid position of leadership without “earning” that position. Not that it’s wrong for the ministry to want their kids involved but sometimes it can do more harm then good.

1. Are they being taught to have good work ethics?

2. Are the people that the son or grandson are leading having their needs met?

3. Is there a process of follow-up or are the son and grandson on their own?

4. Are procedures are set in place if there is a valid complaint about the son or grandson?

I’ve seen some get a free ride because of their family name and yet there are others who are just happy to do what they can for the kingdom.

So, what about the other full time paid positions on your church staff?

1. Are they all necessary?

2. Can each full time paid position be accounted for? (Is there a need for every paid position?)

[RevDWW]

As long as the congregation has an opportunity to vote I see no problem.

With a secret ballot..........

[Felicity]

With a secret ballot..........Well of course!!

I can't imagine it being done any other way.

[seguidordejesus]

Well of course!!

I can't imagine it being done any other way.

Makes you wonder how some folks do things, doesn't it? I'm amazed sometimes :)

[NW Pastor]

Very well said!! This is exactly how I feel about it also.

My father owned a business for many years and we all worked for him and if something happened to him one of us would have taken over because we had been there the whole time and we knew all the ins and outs and problems and what worked and what didn't work and he trusted us because he had trained us. To me it is the same with a church. Of course if it is not of God it won't work.

Again, the church is not "the family business" regardless of how long a family is in the leadership. It is ALWAYS God's business. The sheep are his, the building is his, the future is his. Not ours.

So, can it ever work out. Sure. But in our day it seems to be an entitlement. Young pastor's kids become the heir apparent at ten years old when nobody knows if they are called, or will even be saved when they are grown. This is what some object to.

Furthermore, it can destroy pastor's kids, giving them the idea that they are immune to acting responsibly because eventually it will all be theirs anyway regardless of how prodigal they are in youth.

[LaVonne]

Again, the church is not "the family business" regardless of how long a family is in the leadership. It is ALWAYS God's business. The sheep are his, the building is his, the future is his. Not ours.

So, can it ever work out. Sure. But in our day it seems to be an entitlement. Young pastor's kids become the heir apparent at ten years old when nobody knows if they are called, or will even be saved when they are grown. This is what some object to.

Furthermore, it can destroy pastor's kids, giving them the idea that they are immune to acting responsibly because eventually it will all be theirs anyway regardless of how prodigal they are in youth.

Agreed! Your first two lines had me worried for a minute...because some pastor's, I fear make it their business, not God's.

I know of a family who pastors and their oldest son is stuck doing everything his father and grandfather want for him, which is assist. pastor. If he had his choice, he do something much different. This is wrong...this young man should be able to persue the career of his choice, but his "destiny" was chosen for him when he was still a small child.

[Felicity]

Makes you wonder how some folks do things, doesn't it? I'm amazed sometimes :)I'm amazed a lot of times. ::toofunny

[Thumper]

Again, the church is not "the family business" regardless of how long a family is in the leadership. It is ALWAYS God's business. The sheep are his, the building is his, the future is his. Not ours.

So, can it ever work out. Sure. But in our day it seems to be an entitlement. Young pastor's kids become the heir apparent at ten years old when nobody knows if they are called, or will even be saved when they are grown. This is what some object to.

Furthermore, it can destroy pastor's kids, giving them the idea that they are immune to acting responsibly because eventually it will all be theirs anyway regardless of how prodigal they are in youth.


Great post. This is truly one of the worst poxes in pentecost today. I am constantly amazed at how the assumption that the son/son-inlaw/nephew is automatically assumed to be the heir apparent. I have heard every argument that there is to justify it but it still comes down to the desires of man and not the will of God. I have seen situations where it not only worked but was clearly the will of God. However, what absolutely befuddles me is that it appears the some think it is always the will of God.

there is a Pastor that is not very far from you, NWP, who took over from his father-in-law a few years ago and he wasn't even regularily attending any church, let alone the one he suddenly took over when daddy-inlaw decided opportunity was calling somewhere else.

[Kay B]

I'm amazed a lot of times. ::toofunny

Me too.After almost 50 years.:(

[Rhoni]

Amen, might shock some, but pastor wife is not a position in the church.

Yeah right...LOL. Unless the saints want her to be.:toofunny Everyone has their idea of what the Pastor's wife should be or do. The Pastor's wife is always to blame. If the Pastor makes a success it is despite his wife, if he is a failure it is because of his wife.:girlytantrum

My children were shocked one time. Their father's church was having trouble and it all got blamed on his other wife. They were telling me all about it. I said, "Look, you can't blame her because your father won't lead". "It is never his fault because he never makes any decisions." They found it quite ironic that I would side with...the other woman. I was just thinking...LOL "it is her headache now".

:happydance

[Rhoni]

Poor leaders put family members in postions because they are afraid to mentor good leaders who can take their place. It stops being God's church at that point and becomes that Pastor's church.

JMHO

[KarenJo]

Again, the church is not "the family business" regardless of how long a family is in the leadership. It is ALWAYS God's business. The sheep are his, the building is his, the future is his. Not ours.

So, can it ever work out. Sure. But in our day it seems to be an entitlement. Young pastor's kids become the heir apparent at ten years old when nobody knows if they are called, or will even be saved when they are grown. This is what some object to.

Furthermore, it can destroy pastor's kids, giving them the idea that they are immune to acting responsibly because eventually it will all be theirs anyway regardless of how prodigal they are in youth.


Great post...It's too bad that there are so many in ministry that don't really feel it's God's Church, God's People, etc. All you hear is MINE! The current church leadership should NEVER push a family member to take over a church. If the members of the church want the Pastor’s son or son-in-law, grandson, etc. then that’s ok. What I really hate to see is when the leadership an idea that they are exalted and should be treated as such. It’s sad that they forget that to be in the ministry means to be a servant. If we all would remember to serve one another how much better would we all be.

[Cindy]

I agree KJ. We all need a servan't heart.

[Rhoni]

Agreed! Your first two lines had me worried for a minute...because some pastor's, I fear make it their business, not God's.

I know of a family who pastors and their oldest son is stuck doing everything his father and grandfather want for him, which is assist. pastor. If he had his choice, he do something much different. This is wrong...this young man should be able to persue the career of his choice, but his "destiny" was chosen for him when he was still a small child.

This is why we have Pastor's who do not make good leaders...they are following their father's dream and not their own calling.

Blessings, Rhoni

[OP_Carl]

Poor leaders put family members in postions because they are afraid to mentor good leaders who can take their place. It stops being God's church at that point and becomes that Pastor's church.

JMHO

I agree with you. :thumbsup




. . . in other news, the devil's mid-month banquet was postponed due to snow flurries . . .


:toofunny

I wonder if the "family business" mentality is just part and parcel of using the structure model we've inherited from the denominal world where the church is run like a business. The chief concerns can all-too-quickly become growth, building, and cash flow.

Why do we derive a sense that we are charitable when the lion's share of our "charitable giving" goes to the maintenance and operation of a big fancy building that's empty 5 days of the week?

[grace_seeker]

OK read the first page and saw that there are many or at least a few who think that it may be wrong for a son or son in law to follow a father or FIL.

Let me try to weigh in on the other side of the coin. In many cases of a church that has grown that son or SIL has been there through the process and understands what makes the church run and why elements are put in place and why certain things are done. They literally become part of the fabric of that church. Many times, not every time, when someone is brought in that has not been there it brings distruction. There are times that distruction comes from turning it over to a family member too.

My point is simply this, If God is in the process, then there is nothing wrong with a son or SIL talking over at the right time, and naturally if God is not in it, then it will fail.

I really dont think that there is a rock solid - this is the way it should be done every time - answer for this question. Each one comes around and has to be delt with on an individual basis.

Personally if God allows it to happen, I would be honored beyond measure if one of my sons were called to preach and pastor and then fill my shoes, or the same can be said of the one SIL that God has blessed us with that is a minister or if one of my other two daughters marry a minister who can fill the job, but again IT HAS TO BE A GOD THING.

And yes there have been times that some didnt listen to Him........but there have been many where people did.........

I think that a person needs to be qualified to be a pastor. A son or SIL that has been in the church a while could just as easily destroy a church because he has "history" there. I think it's more feasible for a new outside qualified person to come and take over that work and be less biased about how he approaches the work there. IF the church was built on God's foundation and NOT the personality of the outgoing pastor, the switch should be pretty smooth if he runs things without making drastic changes. History pretty much shows that whenever there is a pastoral switch, some of the church members do some switching also. That said, I do think it's ok for a Son or SIL to pastor but I think it's best that they do not take the church of their parents unless God really blesses it. JMHO.

[grace_seeker]

My experience: I married the daughter of a pastor of an Apostolic church. I became the Associate pastor, serving for close to 20 years. My In-laws were elderly and I began doing the role of pastor. I married, buried, counseled, preached with the consent of my In-laws. But...my sister-in-law had a son that she wanted to have the church. She kept telling her mama and daddy that her son was in direct line to have the church. Mind you, I married the pastor's daughter, her sister! But that wasn't good enough. Soon, my wife and I were forced to leave, it became that bad. So...to answer the question, YES, in my observation, churches are seriously guilty of nepotism, to the nth degree!

Did the son take over the church and is he still pastoring there? Is the work successful? God works all things for the good and I am curious that although this was a difficult experience for you (as it would be with anybody) if the family relationships were restored. Did your lifepath take a good course after that experience?

[ChTatum]

Every situation is different, but as one poster has already pointed out:

It is fine either way if it is God's will.

[Sister Alvear]

I agree every situation is different...

[Rhoni]

The Bible tells us a "prophet has honor save in his own country". It is difficult for the Pastor's son to take over his church because the people saw him grow up and make mistakes and they don't have the respect they should have for the ministry. I think if they get out on their own and establish themselves, then often times they can come back...but it has to be about God and not just keeping the church and the church money in the family.

[Carpenter]

Lots of times the pastor brings in his family in order to preserve his legacy and his work.

I can see it from his point, but I am not sure he may be able to see it from the congregation's point.

I know of one situation where the Son in law was put up as the "Associate" ("HE IS NOT THE ASSISTANT, HE IS THE ASSOCIATE!!!!!!!!!!!!) pastor.

The folks were made to respect this individual in the same manner as the pastor was respected just because he said vows with the daughter. What the pastor failed to realize was that over time he had earned the people's trust and unfortunately when he did this that trust was damaged in many ways.

Needless to say the son in law was not, is not, nor will ever be pastoring material, even though he is an adequate evangelist. The church would fall apart in months and years of work would be flushed should he take the reins. I have no idea what is going on but I do know the pastor now preaches less than 1x per month and the church has been having evangelist after evangelist preach. I wonder if it is a pastoral American Idol taking place before our eyes...


I believe this is going on in several other areas of the country as well...

[Felicity]

Yeah right...LOL. Unless the saints want her to be.:toofunny Everyone has their idea of what the Pastor's wife should be or do. The Pastor's wife is always to blame. If the Pastor makes a success it is despite his wife, if he is a failure it is because of his wife.:girlytantrum


This is outside the realm of my experience and I'm thankful for that. :)

[Rhoni]

This is outside the realm of my experience and I'm thankful for that. :)

LOL - You are my alien friend.:friend

Blessings, Rhoni

P.S. I am thankful that you have not been through all I have been through. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. But the strength I have received through the struggle makes it worth it.

[Felicity]

LOL - You are my alien friend.:friend

Blessings, Rhoni

P.S. I am thankful that you have not been through all I have been through. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. But the strength I have received through the struggle makes it worth it.
I've been through a lot! And that just barely begins to describe what all I have been through. It's just that I personally can't relate at all with this......

If the Pastor makes a success it is despite his wife, if he is a failure it is because of his wife.


Signed.........

Your alien friend. LOL. :)

[Mrs. LPW]

OK read the first page and saw that there are many or at least a few who think that it may be wrong for a son or son in law to follow a father or FIL.

Let me try to weigh in on the other side of the coin. In many cases of a church that has grown that son or SIL has been there through the process and understands what makes the church run and why elements are put in place and why certain things are done. They literally become part of the fabric of that church. Many times, not every time, when someone is brought in that has not been there it brings distruction. There are times that distruction comes from turning it over to a family member too.

My point is simply this, If God is in the process, then there is nothing wrong with a son or SIL talking over at the right time, and naturally if God is not in it, then it will fail.

I really dont think that there is a rock solid - this is the way it should be done every time - answer for this question. Each one comes around and has to be delt with on an individual basis.

Personally if God allows it to happen, I would be honored beyond measure if one of my sons were called to preach and pastor and then fill my shoes, or the same can be said of the one SIL that God has blessed us with that is a minister or if one of my other two daughters marry a minister who can fill the job, but again IT HAS TO BE A GOD THING.

And yes there have been times that some didnt listen to Him........but there have been many where people did.........

This is true... your entire post is true.

[Rhoni]

I've been through a lot! And that just barely begins to describe what all I have been through. It's just that I cant relate at all with this......



Signed.........

Your alien friend. LOL. :)

You know Felicity, It might be where we ministered and Pastored. Most of your ministering was in another country, actually two: Canada & China. I married a southern preacher and it is full of small southern churches with old wives tales galore.

Florida was a unique place. When Elder Crabtree, FLorida DS, and pastor of Panama City Church passed on the church was more or less forced to take his son. The church had quite a few people leave. Had it been done correctly, with prayer and the mind of God...it may have ended up the same way, but we'll never know because the issue was forced through family and politics.

My ex-father-in-law used to talk with all his family and ministry cronies about this minister and that minister and how they would have made a good pastor if it had not been for his wife, and then he would talk of all those successful pastors who were that way despite their wives. What he was doing was trying to control me. Make me afraid or feel unworthy.

There was a point in my life, when I knew my marriage was over that I didn't care what this man said. I knew that he was a small ignorant man who was only a minister because he had a good wife who stood by him through thick and thin. I also knew that his son was only a good minister because of what I added to the mix when we were married. I don't scare easily any more.

Felicity, You and I have been through different things, and I do not belittle them, they are just different. Just like you and I are different. We do not lead in the same way, nor do we have a passion for the same things, but I love you and will always be your friend.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Felicity]

You know Felicity, It might be where we ministered and Pastored. Most of your ministering was in another country, actually two: Canada & China. I married a southern preacher and it is full of small southern churches with old wives tales galore.

Florida was a unique place. When Elder Crabtree, FLorida DS, and pastor of Panama City Church passed on the church was more or less forced to take his son. The church had quite a few people leave. Had it been done correctly, with prayer and the mind of God...it may have ended up the same way, but we'll never know because the issue was forced through family and politics.

My ex-father-in-law used to talk with all his family and ministry cronies about this minister and that minister and how they would have made a good pastor if it had not been for his wife, and then he would talk of all those successful pastors who were that way despite their wives. What he was doing was trying to control me. Make me afraid or feel unworthy.

There was a point in my life, when I knew my marriage was over that I didn't care what this man said. I knew that he was a small ignorant man who was only a minister because he had a good wife who stood by him through thick and thin. I also knew that his son was only a good minister because of what I added to the mix when we were married. I don't scare easily any more.

Felicity, You and I have been through different things, and I do not belittle them, they are just different. Just like you and I are different. We do not lead in the same way, nor do we have a passion for the same things, but I love you and will always be your friend.

Blessings, RhoniI'm sorry for the unhappiness you experienced as a pastor's wife. It's not always easy for sure. And there's no doubt there's a difference in the cultures .... south compared to north.

I also know that some pastors wives are seen as a "problem" to their husband's ministry and some of them are. Other pastors wouldn't be the success they are without a wife who complements their ministry with their support, talent, giftedness and strength.

But I don't think that kind of statement that I quoted from your post would ever be applied to my husband and I. I hope not anyhow. :)

[Sister Alvear]

changing the subject a bit I think it is the wish of every godly parent that our children follow our burden but it also should be our wish above all that THEY HEED the voice of the Lord...and blessed is the parent that can see others that have far more capacity than their children and be FAIR about it...(that is the hard part)
In the south our son Raul Jr was called and fit into the work...here where we are we have several of our children that help in ministry but I do not know if any of them will pastor the church we now pastor...

[Rhoni]

I'm sorry for the unhappiness you experienced as a pastor's wife. It's not always easy for sure. And there's no doubt there's a difference in the cultures .... south compared to north.

I also know that some pastors wives are seen as a "problem" to their husband's ministry and some of them are. Other pastors wouldn't be the success they are without a wife who complements their ministry with their support, talent, giftedness and strength.

But I don't think that kind of statement that I quoted from your post would ever be applied to my husband and I. I hope not anyhow. :)

Felicity,

My unhappiness was not caused by my position as Pastor's wife...I enjoyed the flexibility and status it gave me, unfortunately you have a better 'covering' than I did.

What I quoted was a trend in the states just like the addage they used at JCM as they married a "sweet spirit". This means she can sing but nothing to look at.

I disagree with this statement you made: I also know that some pastors wives are seen as a "problem" to their husband's ministry and some of them are. Other pastors wouldn't be the success they are without a wife who complements their ministry with their support, talent, giftedness and strength.

There have been mulitple threads to cover the issue of "Pastor's Wife" and as I have said before a Pastor's wife is just that...his wife. The measures and the things expected of her come from the church 'culture' and not Biblical standards.

I will reiterate...a man's success in ministry is dependent on him and the choices he makes, only one of which is who he marries.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

Back to the topic of this thread: There is an elderly Pastor that I know who has a son, son-in-law, and a grandson in the mnistry but he refuses to step down from his position of Pastor to that church, primarily made up of family members. His identity is wrapped up in the title and position and the church as dwindled to nothing.

It is a travesty when the elderly men refuse to step down and let the young men carry the vision whether in or out of their family. It is this type of minister that a church refuses to honor with a retirement gift because he has held on so long he is resented instead of honored.

My admiration goes to men and women of God who know when their time to move into another area of service.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Sister Alvear]

I agree...some people never know when to move on and the work of God suffers.

[Rhoni]

I agree...some people never know when to move on and the work of God suffers.

This is true Sis. Alvear, It all goes back to who's church is it anyway? It makes things so much easier when you look at it as God''s church and not My church.

Blessings, Rhoni

[SonsOfTheOil]

just to open up an old thread....i think its cute to watch the hand me down church system in place...regardless if a pastors son is called or not...most pastors have no problem telling you even when their son is only 6-7 yrs old that he'l be the next pastor. its from old testament way of thinking...King hands down kingdom to prince. so since most of what we do today is more religious than spiritual...why should the handing off of churches be any different. "The difference is in the difference"

[bkstokes]

just to open up an old thread....i think its cute to watch the hand me down church system in place...regardless if a pastors son is called or not...most pastors have no problem telling you even when their son is only 6-7 yrs old that he'l be the next pastor. its from old testament way of thinking...King hands down kingdom to prince. so since most of what we do today is more religious than spiritual...why should the handing off of churches be any different. "The difference is in the difference"

This is because much of what goes on in church is done from the "gentile mindset". Jesus told his disciples (future apostles) that the greatest among them would be a servant. A question: When you see a pastor live in a big home and drive a luxury car, do you think servant? I am not saying that preachers shouldn't enjoy the blessings of God, but the Lord and servant mentality seems to be backwards -- especially in these family businesses.

[SonsOfTheOil]

yes agreed:) pastors get to live in big houses drive best of cars..while saints struggle to stay even with this economy. and that dont even include the fact that most pastors are not even teaching their saints how to tap into their own Kingdom calling. so they just show up to church dump all their money into it, get a decent word that helps keep them motiviated but dont really grows their inner man:). dont get me wrong though there are pastors and leaders who are trying to do the will of God the right way without making it a family business...but those are few and far between :)

[Oneness Man]

There is nothing wrong with it as long as it is whom God wants to be in those positions, but I have seen from experience that this is not so. It is the carnally of the Apostolic churches these days.





I see many churches where the Children of the Pastor have now grown and many have stayed home to become Asst. Pastors/Assoc. Pastors and Women's Pastors/ Church Secretary/ and then their children become leaders and there is not much room for others...

and the Family Name becomes iconic symbol of the Church...

Is this wrong?

There is a church I have friend who attends there and the Pastor's Married Daughter literally runs the Church. It is rather large but it is known that her word is like coming from the Mouth of the Pastor and to say something against her or have a different idea is something that is not much appreciated or accepted...

and her husband a evangelist is out preaching 3/4 of the month....

now there may nothing wrong in this... or with this...but is the Family who Leads the Church becoming to powerful in the Church?

Many Churches that have been run by the "family" seems to be losing many members that have been there for years... IS this an isolated incident or do people actually after awhile tire of this happening?