Mich Has Nothing to Say...

[Michlow]

I figured that it would be breaking of traditional to not have a "nothing to say" thread on this forum. (And we all know what a huge SIN it is to let go of traditions!!! ;) )

So here I am, for the 3rd time, announcing to the forum at large, the fact that I have nothing to say.

Now that I have your attention....

:dunno

[Michlow]

“…we are all hypocrites in transition…”

I read those words earlier this week, and they seem to have taken up permanent residence in my mind. It is one of those phrases that when read reverberates wave upon wave of truth.

The moment I read them, I felt the reality of those words; and knew that they described something I had long known to be true. Something I was never able to formulate into conscious thought.

How many times have we heard people say: “The church is filled with hypocrites” or “You Christians are all hypocritical.”? And we are always left scrambling for some type of defense, and are left looking like a lawyer who shouts “objection” because the prosecution just proved his client guilty.

How can we deny this hypocrisy that is all around and yet retain even an ounce of credibility? The truth is we can’t. It is undeniable. We are all hypocrites.

There is not one among us who we can hold up as the ideal. Oh, we try. We chose someone we deem worthy, and place them high up on a pedestal. They are not like us, we think, they have arrived. They have this faith journey down pat. They can be counted on to “do the right thing”. And that gives us hope. For if they can achieve it, then so can we.

But in time the inevitable occurs, the pedestal cracks, and another is proven fallible. “What a hypocrite,” we think, “always preaching on love and yet look how they treated me.” So we look around for another to meet our expectation of super spirituality and the cycle continues. Some after continual disappointment will eventually be led to the conclusion that the claims of the bitter detractors are correct; all Christians are hypocrites.

For too many this ushers in a loss of hope leading to the abandonment of the faith. “I should have gotten this by now”, we think, and “What’s wrong with me that I’m still so flawed?” But in reality, this knowledge brings us to the birthplace of true understanding. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. This applies not only to the lost, but to the saved as well. But like Paul said, we need to press on towards the goal; the goal of becoming like Jesus; a goal which will never be fully attained on this earth. And that is why we will always be: “…hypocrites in transition…”

[LaVonne]

Hey girl!

I woke up thinking about you and your recent posts.

Would love to chat!

[Michlow]

Hey girl!

I woke up thinking about you and your recent posts.

Would love to chat!

LOL, that sounds kinda ominous, should I bring a witness?? :heeheehee

J/K you know I love to talk to you!

[LaVonne]

LOL, that sounds kinda ominous, should I bring a witness?? :heeheehee

J/K you know I love to talk to you!

Hahahaha...you never know!

It's just been ages since we've talked.

[Ron]

Hi Mich!

You are looking great!

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

... did someone say something?

[QueenEsther]

This outta be a peaceful thread!!! :icecream

[Margies3]

... did someone say something?

No.... Mich had nothing to say, remember! :heeheehee



(actually, I think what she did say will give me something to think about for the rest of the day. Good job, Mich!)

[Michlow]

Hahahaha...you never know!

It's just been ages since we've talked.

Let's set something up for this weekend! :highfive

Hi Mich!

You are looking great!

Hey, I can't hear that enough! :D

... did someone say something?

Not to you! :tease

This outta be a peaceful thread!!! :icecream

Is such a thing possible in this place?

No.... Mich had nothing to say, remember! :heeheehee



(actually, I think what she did say will give me something to think about for the rest of the day. Good job, Mich!)

:ty

[LaVonne]

Let's set something up for this weekend! :highfive



Hey, I can't hear that enough! :D



Not to you! :tease



Is such a thing possible in this place?



:ty

sounds good!:ty

[Michlow]

sounds good!:ty

Give your kids some sleeping pills first! :heeheehee

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Not to you! :tease


:nahnah

[LaVonne]

Give your kids some sleeping pills first! :heeheehee

Hmmm...not a bad idea! :highfive

[Michlow]

Mich has a bad attitude.

Mich is feeling contentious.

Mich is on the slippery slope.

Mich is the poster child for distgruntled Christians.

Mich is talking about herself in the third person.

[Michlow]

I am feeling very very emotionally drained right now. I was reading "The Ragamuffin Gospel" by Brennan Manning during my lunch hour, and I feel like I spent the whole hour crying.

Between that, and all the junk coming to the surface with the Church attendance thread, and the obey them thread, I feel kinda emotionally numb right now.

I was reading alot about trust, which is obviously one of my main issues. Some good quotes from what I read during lunch

The disciple living by grace rather than law has undergone a decisive conversion - a turning from mistrust to trust.

The tendency in legalistic religion is to mistrust God, to mistrust others, and consequently to mistrust ourselves. Allow me to become personal for a moment. Do you really believe that the Father of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is gracious, that He cares about you? Do you really believe that He is always, unfailingly present to you as companion and support? Do you really believe that God is love?

Or have you learned to fear this loving and gracious Father? ...
... Have you learned to think of the Father as the judge, the spy, the disciplinarian, the punisher?

Maybe this is the heart of our hang-up, the root of our dilemma. We fluctuate between castigating ourselves and congratulating ourselves because we are deluded into thinking we save ourselves. We develop a false sense of security from our good works and scrupulous observance of the law. Our halo gets too tight and a carefully-disguised attitude of moral superiority results. Or, we are appalled by our inconsistency, devastated that we haven't lived up to our lofty expectations of ourselves. The roller coaster ride of elation and depression continues.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Mich, there is an Ignore Thread option in the Thread Tools!

[Michlow]

Mich, there is an Ignore Thread option in the Thread Tools!

Are you planning to use it on mine? Or are you suggesting I use it on a certain thread??

[Ron]

Michlow, the main thing is your relationship witb Jesus.
Forget the other things for now.

When I married my wife, we didn't sit down and go over a "Wedding Contract" about what I will or won't do.

I love her and that is the basis for why I do what I do.
Your love for Jesus and your relationship with Jesus should be the same thing.

JMHO

Praying for you.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Are you planning to use it on mine? Or are you suggesting I use it on a certain thread??


If it bothers you to read a thread, it can help restore part of your sanity.

I cannot vouch it will restore all sanity.

:nah

[Michlow]

Michlow, the main thing is your relationship witb Jesus.
Forget the other things for now.

When I married my wife, we didn't sit down and go over a "Wedding Contract" about what I will or won't do.

I love her and that is the basis for why I do what I do.
Your love for Jesus and your relationship with Jesus should be the same thing.

JMHO

Praying for you.

I agree, and that is what I am trying to do. :friend

[Michlow]

John 9:41 (NLT)

“If you were blind, you wouldn’t be guilty,” Jesus replied. “But you remain guilty because you claim you can see.


Matthew 6:23 (NLT)

23 But when your eye is bad, your whole body is filled with darkness. And if the light you think you have is actually darkness, how deep that darkness is!

These verses have been floating around in my brain for the past couple days. I have spent the past several months so worried over the fact that there are no answers, only questions. That everything seems to be in the great unknown. Nothing feels certain. But it seems like thinking that you know and see everything, is a much worse state to be in.

[Michlow]

Something I wrote elsewhere:

You are right in saying that I had for a long time a distorted view of God. To me God was always someone who’s approval I desperately needed (because I didn’t want to go to hell!), whose love was conditional (entirely based on if I proved myself worthy) and very unforgiving of less than perfection.

I can’t blame this all on my experiences in the church. Because all the things I wrote above describe perfectly my upbringing by my earthy father. A harsh authoritarian, controlling man for whom nothing was ever good enough. So you could say that I was already well-primed to view God in the same way.

It was actually two weeks ago, that I had a major breakthrough in this area, to understand the breakthrough; I have to give you a little background information.

My husband and I have been together for 10 years, married for 8 ½. I was saved about 6 months after I we got married. I honestly believe that if it were not for that fact, that I would have divorced him a long time ago.

It’s not that I don’t love him, or that he’s a bad person. The main problem is that he has Asperger’s syndrome. Asperger’s is a type of high functioning autism. Without getting into it too in depth, we’ll just say the bottom line is that his brain works differently than ours, and that how he views and relates and interacts with the world around him, is far different than the way that we do. There are many many layers and characteristics that I could describe to try and explain how this affects my life and our marriage, but in the interest of simplicity, I will say only that something like 85% of Aspie marriages end in divorce.

One of the important parts of this is that my husband has difficulty both in maintaining employment, and in handling any sort of responsibility. This puts a lot of pressure on me to keep us afloat financially, as well as handling all of the other household responsibilities.

Anyway, three weeks ago, my husband lost his job, again. Probably the 30th job he has had in the time I have known him. This was actually a record for him. He made it almost a year and a half. The poor guy was afraid to tell me. I am afraid with all the pressure on me; I usually don’t handle the news very well. Though to be honest, each time it gets a little better, and this time, I didn’t even get angry, I just cried for 15 minutes and then started making plans.

However, the next day, I did take the time to vent to a friend, who then proceeded to tell me that I was too young to waste my life on this. That surely God wanted me to have something better. After all wasn’t it more of a sin to be this unhappy? I tried to explain to her that it wasn’t like that, but couldn’t seem to find the words.

A few days later I was doing my daily hour on the treadmill (I often read and pray during that time), and I started thinking about my husband and his job situation. The truth is I have often treated my husband; the same way that I felt my father treated me. Nothing was ever quite good enough. I always KNEW that he could be doing better. If he cleaned the house to “surprise” me, all I ever saw was that he had done it wrong. If he did have a job, he didn’t make enough money. (His last job he worked part time working $600 a month), or he wasn’t working as hard as me, so it wasn’t good enough. Because he was an Aspie, I tried to cut him slack, but to be honest, my true feelings were, if you have a handicap, you simply need to work harder to overcome it.

So as I am on my treadmill thinking about him losing his job again, and his perpetual tardiness that probably was a factor, and this cycle was probably going to repeat itself over and over again. So I am thinking of my husband: he’s not perfect, he messes up a lot, sometimes it’s an accident or out of his control, other times he’s not giving it his full effort, and sometimes he even purposely does something wrong. But regardless of all that, he’s just my husband. And I love him regardless of his problems and his failings, even with knowing that he will most likely always be like this.

And then there came that split second of revelation. Where God speaks to you and in a fraction of a moment suddenly the world around you looks completely different. And in that moment, I saw and understood how God really looks at me. And how he can love me knowing how flawed I am, knowing that I am going to mess up, and keep doing the same stupid things over and over again. And how he might get frustrated with me, but he doesn’t stop loving me. He might want me to become more, but he loves me just as I am. And even if I never change, if I never do better, if I continue to make the same stupid mistakes over and over again, He’s not going to leave me, or reject me or condemn me or cast me aside.

It was amazing.

[tamor]

Excellent post, Mich. Bravo!!

[Timmy]

:clap

[Michlow]

Excellent post, Mich. Bravo!!

:clap

Thank you guys :friend

[Ron]

Something I wrote elsewhere:

You are right in saying that I had for a long time a distorted view of God. To me God was always someone who’s approval I desperately needed (because I didn’t want to go to hell!), whose love was conditional (entirely based on if I proved myself worthy) and very unforgiving of less than perfection.

I can’t blame this all on my experiences in the church. Because all the things I wrote above describe perfectly my upbringing by my earthy father. A harsh authoritarian, controlling man for whom nothing was ever good enough. So you could say that I was already well-primed to view God in the same way.

It was actually two weeks ago, that I had a major breakthrough in this area, to understand the breakthrough; I have to give you a little background information.

My husband and I have been together for 10 years, married for 8 ½. I was saved about 6 months after I we got married. I honestly believe that if it were not for that fact, that I would have divorced him a long time ago.

It’s not that I don’t love him, or that he’s a bad person. The main problem is that he has Asperger’s syndrome. Asperger’s is a type of high functioning autism. Without getting into it too in depth, we’ll just say the bottom line is that his brain works differently than ours, and that how he views and relates and interacts with the world around him, is far different than the way that we do. There are many many layers and characteristics that I could describe to try and explain how this affects my life and our marriage, but in the interest of simplicity, I will say only that something like 85% of Aspie marriages end in divorce.

One of the important parts of this is that my husband has difficulty both in maintaining employment, and in handling any sort of responsibility. This puts a lot of pressure on me to keep us afloat financially, as well as handling all of the other household responsibilities.

Anyway, three weeks ago, my husband lost his job, again. Probably the 30th job he has had in the time I have known him. This was actually a record for him. He made it almost a year and a half. The poor guy was afraid to tell me. I am afraid with all the pressure on me; I usually don’t handle the news very well. Though to be honest, each time it gets a little better, and this time, I didn’t even get angry, I just cried for 15 minutes and then started making plans.

However, the next day, I did take the time to vent to a friend, who then proceeded to tell me that I was too young to waste my life on this. That surely God wanted me to have something better. After all wasn’t it more of a sin to be this unhappy? I tried to explain to her that it wasn’t like that, but couldn’t seem to find the words.

A few days later I was doing my daily hour on the treadmill (I often read and pray during that time), and I started thinking about my husband and his job situation. The truth is I have often treated my husband; the same way that I felt my father treated me. Nothing was ever quite good enough. I always KNEW that he could be doing better. If he cleaned the house to “surprise” me, all I ever saw was that he had done it wrong. If he did have a job, he didn’t make enough money. (His last job he worked part time working $600 a month), or he wasn’t working as hard as me, so it wasn’t good enough. Because he was an Aspie, I tried to cut him slack, but to be honest, my true feelings were, if you have a handicap, you simply need to work harder to overcome it.

So as I am on my treadmill thinking about him losing his job again, and his perpetual tardiness that probably was a factor, and this cycle was probably going to repeat itself over and over again. So I am thinking of my husband: he’s not perfect, he messes up a lot, sometimes it’s an accident or out of his control, other times he’s not giving it his full effort, and sometimes he even purposely does something wrong. But regardless of all that, he’s just my husband. And I love him regardless of his problems and his failings, even with knowing that he will most likely always be like this.

And then there came that split second of revelation. Where God speaks to you and in a fraction of a moment suddenly the world around you looks completely different. And in that moment, I saw and understood how God really looks at me. And how he can love me knowing how flawed I am, knowing that I am going to mess up, and keep doing the same stupid things over and over again. And how he might get frustrated with me, but he doesn’t stop loving me. He might want me to become more, but he loves me just as I am. And even if I never change, if I never do better, if I continue to make the same stupid mistakes over and over again, He’s not going to leave me, or reject me or condemn me or cast me aside.

It was amazing.

Michlow, that is both very profound and also very applicable to us all.
While the people we meet with or interact with may not have Asbergers
they all (including myself) have faults and failings.

Yes it is both amazing that God can love us as we are, and it is even more amazing on how God can give us the Grace to love others as he loves us if we will let him.

Great Post!

[Michlow]

Michlow, that is both very profound and also very applicable to us all.
While the people we meet with or interact with may not have Asbergers
they all (including myself) have faults and failings.

Yes it is both amazing that God can love us as we are, and it is even more amazing on how God can give us the Grace to love others as he loves us if we will let him.

Great Post!

God has continued to use this to teach me.

For a long time I "consoled" myself to my difficult situation. Everytime that I got to the point where I didn't think I could take another day, the Lord would somehow give me the peace to go on.

To be honest, I always had this idea that maybe I was the only way that the Lord would ever be able to get through to my husband some day. But this really humbled me with the realization, that maybe my husband was the only way that the Lord could get through to me.

[MrsBOOMM]

Mich, you have ministered to me in such a beautiful way. Thank-you

[Michlow]

Mich, you have ministered to me in such a beautiful way. Thank-you

I am always glad to share the love! :friend

[Rhoni]

God has continued to use this to teach me.

For a long time I "consoled" myself to my difficult situation. Everytime that I got to the point where I didn't think I could take another day, the Lord would somehow give me the peace to go on.

To be honest, I always had this idea that maybe I was the only way that the Lord would ever be able to get through to my husband some day. But this really humbled me with the realization, that maybe my husband was the only way that the Lord could get through to me.


That was powerful! Thank-you for sharing this.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Blubayou]

Mich- What a wonderful revelation. I had a similar one when I was dealing with a very difficult child in my classroom. As I mulled over how trying this child was and how I never seemed to see any progress with him, God spoke to me. He let me see that He is patient with me, loves me and corrects me, but with love. He let me know that I was entrusted with this child and He expected me to be kind and merciful to him. I have never forgotten that moment, and that child. It changed the way I thought about that child and many other children I taught. It also gave me insight into my relationship with God and just how loving my Heavenly Father toward me.

[Sister Truth Seeker]

Mich- What a wonderful revelation. I had a similar one when I was dealing with a very difficult child in my classroom. As I mulled over how trying this child was and how I never seemed to see any progress with him, God spoke to me. He let me see that He is patient with me, loves me and corrects me, but with love. He let me know that I was entrusted with this child and He expected me to be kind and merciful to him. I have never forgotten that moment, and that child. It changed the way I thought about that child and many other children I taught. It also gave me insight into my relationship with God and just how loving my Heavenly Father toward me.Awesome...such good stuff here...I am blown away....God is soooo good!

[Michlow]

That was powerful! Thank-you for sharing this.

Blessings, Rhoni

Mich- What a wonderful revelation. I had a similar one when I was dealing with a very difficult child in my classroom. As I mulled over how trying this child was and how I never seemed to see any progress with him, God spoke to me. He let me see that He is patient with me, loves me and corrects me, but with love. He let me know that I was entrusted with this child and He expected me to be kind and merciful to him. I have never forgotten that moment, and that child. It changed the way I thought about that child and many other children I taught. It also gave me insight into my relationship with God and just how loving my Heavenly Father toward me.

Awesome...such good stuff here...I am blown away....God is soooo good!

If you guys don't stop it, I might have to change the name of this thread! :D

[Michlow]

Something that I wrote on a different thread, regarding spiritual abuse, that I would like to repost here, as it is my blog of sorts.

The truth is that those who have not experienced it, do not understand the depths of damage that can be done in the mind.

Though I long ago let of any bitterness or anger that I held and freely forgave those who injured me, even I did not completely understand the effect those past experiences had on my spiritual life.

Firstly, and most importantly, I was taught a distorted view of God. Secondly I was shown a distorted view of authority. This distortion continued to encompass the church/body. These were all tied together with a manipulation and distortion of the Word.

So what was I left with? A fear of the ministry, a lack of trust in other believers, a dislike, fear, mistrust and feelings of confusion towards God and His word.

How do you just "get over" something like that? What tools does one use? All the sources one would normally turn to, have in the past been sources of abuse.

Perhaps it is different when one has been taught and nuturted in a healthy spiritual environment and then has a "bad experience", but when one is "born" into an abusive church it is not that easy to overcome. Then you are equipped with a defective filter. Even when you hear "truth" it is filtered through the distorted and twisted foundation that was first built.

I have been out of the bad environment for over 3 years and it has only been in the past month that I have begun to make progress. Because I have only now gotten a clear picture of Jesus. My view of Him was so distorted that there was no peace or joy in my walk, for I was serving a God that I despised, feared and had so much anger towards. I found Him capricious, arbitrarily cruel, demanding, domineering and a spiritual blackmailer.

(Anyone interested in reading about how that change, it is posted here: http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...6&postcount=23 )

Now that I have rebuilt my foundation, I can begin to deal with the other things.

But to be honest, it's very much a two steps forward, one step back process. Especially when it comes to church, Pastors and the Bible. They were the things that were used to distort my image of God.

[Tina]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/fishmansbetrhalf/brightenwednesday.gif

[Michlow]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/fishmansbetrhalf/brightenwednesday.gif

:tease

[Michlow]

Written on a different forum, something that I have never been able to articulate before today.

What I am looking for in a church:

I want something transparent and real, something deep and meaningful. A meeting of believers, who though they are in different stages of the journey are nevertheless, equals; a group that submits to one another, not to just one, who in turn submits to no one. A group that can disagree without judgment, and be different yet still united. A place where the Word is discussed not “taught” and where love is practiced, not preached. A place where His kingdom is sought, not the kingdoms of men, of money, of success.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Written on a different forum, something that I have never been able to articulate before today.

What I am looking for in a church:

I want something transparent and real, something deep and meaningful. A meeting of believers, who though they are in different stages of the journey are nevertheless, equals; a group that submits to one another, not to just one, who in turn submits to no one. A group that can disagree without judgment, and be different yet still united. A place where the Word is discussed not “taught” and where love is practiced, not preached. A place where His kingdom is sought, not the kingdoms of men, of money, of success.

WOW!

This is powerful!

[Blubayou]

You have set the standard high. I hope you find a church like this - When you do, tell me so I can attend!!!!

[Michlow]

WOW!

This is powerful!

Honestly, it makes me cry every time I read it! I was never able to articulate it before, and now that I have, every time I read it I am filled with the desire to find it.

[Michlow]

You have set the standard high. I hope you find a church like this - When you do, tell me so I can attend!!!!

Sadly, I don't think it exists, but now that I know what I am longing for, maybe I can pray it into existance!

[Sherri]

Honestly, it makes me cry every time I read it! I was never able to articulate it before, and now that I have, every time I read it I am filled with the desire to find it.
Come visit me in Jackson. You would love our church, I promise.

[rgcraig]

Written on a different forum, something that I have never been able to articulate before today.

What I am looking for in a church:

I want something transparent and real, something deep and meaningful. A meeting of believers, who though they are in different stages of the journey are nevertheless, equals; a group that submits to one another, not to just one, who in turn submits to no one. A group that can disagree without judgment, and be different yet still united. A place where the Word is discussed not “taught” and where love is practiced, not preached. A place where His kingdom is sought, not the kingdoms of men, of money, of success.

Ump? Wonder if this might be the church God inspires for us to have?

[Michlow]

Come visit me in Jackson. You would love our church, I promise.

Sherri, I would LOVE to do that! But it would make for a pretty long commute!

[Michlow]

Ump? Wonder if this might be the church God inspires for us to have?

Is that it? Is that why I so desperately long for it? And why I am so horribly dissatisfied with the status quo?

I was sharing this with my husband this morning, and we had a good discussion. I talked about the issues that I have been having lately, the struggles to find the real God. About how I had been taught things that were just plain distorted and how now I am finding it difficult to trust anyone or anything. And how it can all be summed up in one phrase "I believe Jesus is God...the rest is negotiable."

I talked about how I was thinking of looking for a different church, but how the whole thing seemed kind of pointless as much of my problem is with church in general, not just a certain flavor of church.

The conversation ended with us deciding to just take the dream and rather than sitting around waiting for it, to try it ourselves. So we have wonderful "church" this morning. In our pajama's, while eating breakfast.

We each chose a worship song (Him: Michael W. Smith's "Let it Rain" Me: Darlene Czech "Shout to the Lord" )

We decided arbitrarily to start in Romans. Our only goal was to read as best as we could with no preconceived notions and without filtering it through everything we had already been taught. Which is hard to do! It was kind of like picking up a Bible for the first time.

I was a little nervous through Romans 1 & 2, it was very much about the law, and being judged based on following it and being punished for sin. And my old perfectionist "earn your own salvation" tendencies threatened to pop back out. But I said to Matt "He seems to be going somewhere with this, lets keep going (originially we were only going to do a chapter or two).

But the end of Chapter 3 made the point nicely.

21 But now God has shown us a way to be made right with him without keeping the requirements of the law, as was promised in the writings of Moses[i] and the prophets long ago. 22 We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are.

23 For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard. 24 Yet God, with undeserved kindness, declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins. 25 For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, 26 for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus.

27 Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, because our acquittal is not based on obeying the law. It is based on faith. 28 So we are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law.

29 After all, is God the God of the Jews only? Isn’t he also the God of the Gentiles? Of course he is. 30 There is only one God, and he makes people right with himself only by faith, whether they are Jews or Gentiles.

[Michlow]

So I decided to visit the church of one of my fellow AFF'ers this weekend. Bro. Tatum (ChTatum)'s church is a little over an hour to the east of me.

I tried to get my husband to come along by telling him that I was going to meet a guy named Chuck that I met on the internet. He was all :eek: and said "I think I should come along with you". However, I finally took pity on him and told him that "Chuck" was actually a Pastor and that I was going to visit his church, at which point my husband predictably said "oh, then you can go by yourself"

So I braved the early morning hours and dragged myself out of bed. The drive was actually very peaceful and serene. I had never been that far east before, and very much enjoyed the lack of crowds and traffic.

When I got to the church, I happened to run into Bro. Tatum right away. He introduced himself and shook my hand and I gave him my full name. I was thrown off when he identified himself by the lack of the full beard that I am used to seeing in his picture here on AFF. (He currently has a goatee) And as I had never told him specifically when I was planning on visiting, my name didn't ring any bells with him.

So I tracked him down again and said 'I'm sorry but the lack of beard threw me off" At which point he was like "I'm sorry, have we met before?" :lol

They had a very nice church, the sanctuary part is refurbished, but built in the 20's (I think he said?). The first church that I attended was in a 100 year old building, and so my first thought on walking into the sanctuary was that it "smelled like church". It always amazes me how our memories are tied to our senses.

I was very disappointed however as I did not see one woman wearing a tube top! No hotpants either! And none of them looked like Tammy Faye Bakker or Jan crouch! (Though I HAVE been sworn to secrecy regarding the color of shirt that Bro. Tatum wore under his jacket :sshhh I was asked specifically to keep this information from Bro. Epley :heeheehee)

There was a wonderful move of God during the worship service, when a young man sang the Casting Crowns song "Praise you in this storm". And then Bro. Tatum preached a message on the Seeds in the various grounds (See, I EVEN listened :haloplug )

And to top it all off, during his message he even specifically mentioned baptizing a certain way, and receiving the Holy Ghost. Which blew the theory that when standards go, so does doctrine, right out of the water. (In fact, truth be told, there were some women there that not stand out at all in your average UPC church)

And then they took me for lunch, where we had some good mexican food, and gossiped, err....I mean prayerfully discussed AFF, and where I found out that Bro. Tatum is more conservative than he comes across. (A fault that I mercifully forgive him for :heeheehee)

All in all, I had a very nice time, and was blessed to have been able to attend and meet the Tatums.

[My Own Eyes]

Something I wrote elsewhere:

You are right in saying that I had for a long time a distorted view of God. To me God was always someone who’s approval I desperately needed (because I didn’t want to go to hell!), whose love was conditional (entirely based on if I proved myself worthy) and very unforgiving of less than perfection.

I can’t blame this all on my experiences in the church. Because all the things I wrote above describe perfectly my upbringing by my earthy father. A harsh authoritarian, controlling man for whom nothing was ever good enough. So you could say that I was already well-primed to view God in the same way.

It was actually two weeks ago, that I had a major breakthrough in this area, to understand the breakthrough; I have to give you a little background information.

My husband and I have been together for 10 years, married for 8 ½. I was saved about 6 months after I we got married. I honestly believe that if it were not for that fact, that I would have divorced him a long time ago.

It’s not that I don’t love him, or that he’s a bad person. The main problem is that he has Asperger’s syndrome. Asperger’s is a type of high functioning autism. Without getting into it too in depth, we’ll just say the bottom line is that his brain works differently than ours, and that how he views and relates and interacts with the world around him, is far different than the way that we do. There are many many layers and characteristics that I could describe to try and explain how this affects my life and our marriage, but in the interest of simplicity, I will say only that something like 85% of Aspie marriages end in divorce.

One of the important parts of this is that my husband has difficulty both in maintaining employment, and in handling any sort of responsibility. This puts a lot of pressure on me to keep us afloat financially, as well as handling all of the other household responsibilities.

Anyway, three weeks ago, my husband lost his job, again. Probably the 30th job he has had in the time I have known him. This was actually a record for him. He made it almost a year and a half. The poor guy was afraid to tell me. I am afraid with all the pressure on me; I usually don’t handle the news very well. Though to be honest, each time it gets a little better, and this time, I didn’t even get angry, I just cried for 15 minutes and then started making plans.

However, the next day, I did take the time to vent to a friend, who then proceeded to tell me that I was too young to waste my life on this. That surely God wanted me to have something better. After all wasn’t it more of a sin to be this unhappy? I tried to explain to her that it wasn’t like that, but couldn’t seem to find the words.

A few days later I was doing my daily hour on the treadmill (I often read and pray during that time), and I started thinking about my husband and his job situation. The truth is I have often treated my husband; the same way that I felt my father treated me. Nothing was ever quite good enough. I always KNEW that he could be doing better. If he cleaned the house to “surprise” me, all I ever saw was that he had done it wrong. If he did have a job, he didn’t make enough money. (His last job he worked part time working $600 a month), or he wasn’t working as hard as me, so it wasn’t good enough. Because he was an Aspie, I tried to cut him slack, but to be honest, my true feelings were, if you have a handicap, you simply need to work harder to overcome it.

So as I am on my treadmill thinking about him losing his job again, and his perpetual tardiness that probably was a factor, and this cycle was probably going to repeat itself over and over again. So I am thinking of my husband: he’s not perfect, he messes up a lot, sometimes it’s an accident or out of his control, other times he’s not giving it his full effort, and sometimes he even purposely does something wrong. But regardless of all that, he’s just my husband. And I love him regardless of his problems and his failings, even with knowing that he will most likely always be like this.

And then there came that split second of revelation. Where God speaks to you and in a fraction of a moment suddenly the world around you looks completely different. And in that moment, I saw and understood how God really looks at me. And how he can love me knowing how flawed I am, knowing that I am going to mess up, and keep doing the same stupid things over and over again. And how he might get frustrated with me, but he doesn’t stop loving me. He might want me to become more, but he loves me just as I am. And even if I never change, if I never do better, if I continue to make the same stupid mistakes over and over again, He’s not going to leave me, or reject me or condemn me or cast me aside.

It was amazing.


It's kind of scary to read something written by your own hand and it be so foreign and strike no chord of recognition. Ironically the last part is what people keep trying to get me to believe! :hmmm

[DividedThigh]

well mich for someone that has nuttin to say, you said a mouthful, god loves you just like that, god bless you sis, dt

[My Own Eyes]

well mich for someone that has nuttin to say, you said a mouthful, god loves you just like that, god bless you sis, dt

Thanks Bro. :friend

[Tina]

Mich... he DOES love you just the way you are... and so do we.

I do have a question though... I can't remember if I asked this before.

With your husband's condition, and not being able to hold down a job due to that condition-- can he not qualify for medical disability?

[My Own Eyes]

Mich... he DOES love you just the way you are... and so do we.

I do have a question though... I can't remember if I asked this before.

With your husband's condition, and not being able to hold down a job due to that condition-- can he not qualify for medical disability?

The simple answer is..."I don't know".

The complicated one is...over my dead body...LOL

I feel pretty strongly about disability being for people who are physically or mentally UNABLE to work. My husband HAS the ability to work, he just needs an employer that would work with him.

He has currently been unemployed since last April, but in that time some good things have happened. He has been working with a vocational social worker through the department of labor. They paid for him to have psychological testing where he was officially diagnosed with ADHD and Asperger's. In addition they gave him vocational testing to check his abilities, and right now he is working at Goodwill doing a 10 day work eval. where they evaluate how he is in a work environment.

Hopefully at the end of all this, he will be able to find lasting employment with an employer that is understanding about his disabilities, and is willing to work with him.

For me getting disability checks is an absolute last resort. Not only because I think there are people who need it so much more, but also because the resentment that I would feel that he got paid to sit around and play his computer games all day would pretty much be the death knell of our marriage. ;)

[Tina]

I understand how you feel about the disability thing... I feel the same way. I was just curious if it were an option.

They have work programs for people that have problems holding regular jobs. They use them in different areas with different employers who are willing to work with them. I know that they do, and you'd probably have to contact a state mental health/disability representative to find out how to apply for those programs if they have one in your area.

I remember one of the people we used to keep for respite care on holidays worked a job putting Christmas cards in boxes. Some of them glued the envelopes that went with the boxes of Christmas cards. They earned a paycheck for doing that-- and worked when they were able to work. If they had "issues" on a day and couldn't make it, they didn't lose the job.

I really thought it was great that they had programs like that.

[Michlow]

Wow reading through all this old stuff is disturbing. I all use bible verses, and stuff! :eek:

[Timmy]

:lol

[Michlow]

:lol

It's not nearly as bad as if I'd had to read the previous incarnations at the other forums. Those would be REALLY scary!!!

[ILG]

It's not nearly as bad as if I'd had to read the previous incarnations at the other forums. Those would be REALLY scary!!!

MIch,

I have stuff online from 1997, 1998 or so. I wish I could erase it!

[Michlow]

MIch,

I have stuff online from 1997, 1998 or so. I wish I could erase it!

I have my private journals which are bad enough. I read them and it's so hard to see that I was tormenting myself for things that now seem so foolish to me.

[Michlow]

So being a bit bored this afternoon, and finding no excitement in my usual haunts, I found myself if anything had changed over here in the past 4 months or so. It really hasn't, which I find strange as my life has changed so drastically.

My Mom got diagnosed with a rare form of cancer (of the Bile Duct), and I had a crazy summer of Doctor's appointments, Chemo & Radiation, and piles of paperwork. At the same time I was falling in love and enjoying spending time with my boyfriend.

I decided to go back to school, I went through the application process and got accepted. I continued to care for my Mom and my boyfriend moved in with me.

And then I got the surprise of my life. For my entire adult life (including 12 years with my ex-husband) It was believed that I could not have children. This saddened me when I was younger, but I had come to accept it, and even enjoy some of the "perks" of not having so many responsibilities. So when I suddenly got sick last month, it took almost 2 weeks before I considered the possibility. Even though I bought a test, I still didn't believe it when it came back positive. (I think it was the 3rd one that convinced me)

Next came trying to convince my atheist boyfriend that this was a miracle, which turned out to be somewhat of an exercise in futility. Then came the decision to have a quickie marriage for insurance benefits (mine had zero maternity coverage), which I planned in 3 days, and it turned out quite nice, if I do say so myself.

I was amused when our "secular" courthouse wedding ceremony turned out to be extremely religious with liberal use of both Jesus and scripture. (My husband a bit less so! LOL)

And so suddenly I find myself married again, and with a baby on the way. If you would have told me this a year ago, I would have called you a liar!

[Timmy]

:hanky :rooting :clap :yahoo :happydance :party :party

Congratulations!! :) :) :)

[*AQuietPlace*]

It's amazing the many surprises life can hold, isn't it? Twists and turn that we never expect.

Congrats on your new little one.

[nahkoe]

Congraulations. :D I'm so happy that you're so happy!

[Dedicated Mind]

congratulations Michlow, great news.

[MissBrattified]

So being a bit bored this afternoon, and finding no excitement in my usual haunts, I found myself if anything had changed over here in the past 4 months or so. It really hasn't, which I find strange as my life has changed so drastically.

My Mom got diagnosed with a rare form of cancer (of the Bile Duct), and I had a crazy summer of Doctor's appointments, Chemo & Radiation, and piles of paperwork. At the same time I was falling in love and enjoying spending time with my boyfriend.

I decided to go back to school, I went through the application process and got accepted. I continued to care for my Mom and my boyfriend moved in with me.

And then I got the surprise of my life. For my entire adult life (including 12 years with my ex-husband) It was believed that I could not have children. This saddened me when I was younger, but I had come to accept it, and even enjoy some of the "perks" of not having so many responsibilities. So when I suddenly got sick last month, it took almost 2 weeks before I considered the possibility. Even though I bought a test, I still didn't believe it when it came back positive. (I think it was the 3rd one that convinced me)

Next came trying to convince my atheist boyfriend that this was a miracle, which turned out to be somewhat of an exercise in futility. Then came the decision to have a quickie marriage for insurance benefits (mine had zero maternity coverage), which I planned in 3 days, and it turned out quite nice, if I do say so myself.

I was amused when our "secular" courthouse wedding ceremony turned out to be extremely religious with liberal use of both Jesus and scripture. (My husband a bit less so! LOL)

And so suddenly I find myself married again, and with a baby on the way. If you would have told me this a year ago, I would have called you a liar!

Mich! :)

I'm so happy for you!!!! Congratulations on the miraculous pregnancy and your marriage and on going back to school. That's fantastic!

:thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup

[Cindy]

Congratulations, Mich. Happy for you!!!!

[aegsm76]

Glad to hear you are doing well.
Even though I rarely posted in the days when you were active on the board, it is good to hear from you!

[rgcraig]

Babies rock!!!!!

You looked stunning in your "wedding" attire! Congrats!

[ILG]

Well, Mich, you are going to have to change the title of this thread to "Mich has lots to say!" Congrats.

P.S. Renda, I hate your avatar. ;)

[Michlow]

Mich! :)

I'm so happy for you!!!! Congratulations on the miraculous pregnancy and your marriage and on going back to school. That's fantastic!

:thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup

Thanks everyone for all the well wishes and congrats. It's been kind of a wild ride, and to be honest, I am still trying to wrap my head around everything!

I did make the decision to put off going back to school. It was already going to be a stretch working full time, taking care of my Mom and going to school, before I added being pregnant into the mix! Of course, it's especially hard to imagine right now as I feel sick all the time and am ready for bed at 8 o'clock at night! LOL

[Digging4Truth]

MICH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Congrats my friend. :)

[rgcraig]

Well, Mich, you are going to have to change the title of this thread to "Mich has lots to say!" Congrats.

P.S. Renda, I hate your avatar. ;)

Is that better?

[ILG]

Is that better?

LOL! Yes! Much!:toofunny

[tamor]

Is that better?

I love this!!! :toofunny

[Dichotomy Girl]

So I was wondering whether or not to share this, when I remember this old thread, and thought it would be a perfect place.

Last night as I got home from work, I was contemplating the two plum trees that we have in front of our house. They are about 10 years old, and prior to last fall we have never trimmed or pruned them. As a result they had grown completely out of control. One had big long branches that covered up part of the driveway, and they both contained way too many branches, to the point where sometimes they would break under the weight of the fruit, and eventually it became impossible to even access most of the fruit because it was so hidden inside, and would end up rotting on the branches, and attracting all the ants, wasps, bees and flies in the neighborhood.

So last fall, tired of dealing with that every spring, I went to town on both of the trees. When I was done, they were not pretty to look at. Because I had to remove all the branches that were rubbing against each other or intertwined, or growing over the driveway, the trees were left with only the thickest and oldest limbs.

All Winter I would look at my sad little trees and shake my head. They looked so pathetic and naked. And many times I wondered what my neighbors thought of my hacked up stubby branches. But eventually spring came, at first there were just a few leaves here and there, but eventually after lots of rain and sunshine, the trees were soon covered with a big beautiful canopy of green.

So pretty were they, that it took me several months before I noticed, that not one plum existed on either tree. For a minute, I questioned myself. After all, the trees HAD produced fruit in the past, maybe I should not have trimmed them so drastically. I sat there a few minutes, just kind of staring off into space, contemplating, and eventually reminding myself that though the trees had produced fruit, it was impossible to access and so usually rotted, that it attracted the worst kind of outdoor pests, and if we had continued to let them grow as they were, eventually the problems would have been impossible to correct and the trees would have had to be entirely removed.

And then I had that momentary epiphany where for a moment you see something so clearly, that all you can do is gasp and let it sink in to you psyche. At that moment, I saw myself as one of those trees, who had been planted well, but grew crooked and out of control and in too many directions. And though I produced fruit, it was often hidden and inaccessible, and often fell to the ground unharvested. And I got to a place, where the only option left was to cut off everything that was hindering me, or that had grown crookedly, leaving only a few solid stubby branches.

My winter, where nothing grew, and I was just a chopped off tree in limbo, lasted years before the spring came and once again I became a healthy flourishing tree. And maybe I'm not fruitful right now, but I have hope that when the fruit returns in the next season of my life, it will be so much better than it was before.

[Timmy]

:thumbsup

[KeptByTheWord]

What an incredible truth and reality DG! You have quite a talent for writing, and expressing your thoughts!

I have often thought the same things, as each year I would cut my gorgeous rose bushes back to almost nothing, and they looked so sad and pitiful all winter, but... come spring, the most amazing show of beauty and growth would take place, and the new growth would always outdo the pruning job from the fall before.

So... I am know that this "pruning" time that you have been through will indeed lead you to greater heights and beauty than you've seen before... thank you for sharing your journey with us... really glad you're back :)

[Esaias]

So I was wondering whether or not to share this, when I remember this old thread, and thought it would be a perfect place.

Last night as I got home from work, I was contemplating the two plum trees that we have in front of our house. They are about 10 years old, and prior to last fall we have never trimmed or pruned them. As a result they had grown completely out of control. One had big long branches that covered up part of the driveway, and they both contained way too many branches, to the point where sometimes they would break under the weight of the fruit, and eventually it became impossible to even access most of the fruit because it was so hidden inside, and would end up rotting on the branches, and attracting all the ants, wasps, bees and flies in the neighborhood.

So last fall, tired of dealing with that every spring, I went to town on both of the trees. When I was done, they were not pretty to look at. Because I had to remove all the branches that were rubbing against each other or intertwined, or growing over the driveway, the trees were left with only the thickest and oldest limbs.

All Winter I would look at my sad little trees and shake my head. They looked so pathetic and naked. And many times I wondered what my neighbors thought of my hacked up stubby branches. But eventually spring came, at first there were just a few leaves here and there, but eventually after lots of rain and sunshine, the trees were soon covered with a big beautiful canopy of green.

So pretty were they, that it took me several months before I noticed, that not one plum existed on either tree. For a minute, I questioned myself. After all, the trees HAD produced fruit in the past, maybe I should not have trimmed them so drastically. I sat there a few minutes, just kind of staring off into space, contemplating, and eventually reminding myself that though the trees had produced fruit, it was impossible to access and so usually rotted, that it attracted the worst kind of outdoor pests, and if we had continued to let them grow as they were, eventually the problems would have been impossible to correct and the trees would have had to be entirely removed.

And then I had that momentary epiphany where for a moment you see something so clearly, that all you can do is gasp and let it sink in to you psyche. At that moment, I saw myself as one of those trees, who had been planted well, but grew crooked and out of control and in too many directions. And though I produced fruit, it was often hidden and inaccessible, and often fell to the ground unharvested. And I got to a place, where the only option left was to cut off everything that was hindering me, or that had grown crookedly, leaving only a few solid stubby branches.

My winter, where nothing grew, and I was just a chopped off tree in limbo, lasted years before the spring came and once again I became a healthy flourishing tree. And maybe I'm not fruitful right now, but I have hope that when the fruit returns in the next season of my life, it will be so much better than it was before.

You cut your hair?

















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Just kidding! Jesus said he prunes every branch, did he not, that they may bring forth more fruit.