Re: The doctrine of subsequence
 

I never said that were not being led by the Spirit rather I said they were not WALKING (continually) in the Spirit. I also never said that they were in rebellion but I did say that their nature was still carnal and not subject to the law of God (Paul also said this) and therefore at wars against the Spirit. Total submission comes when the flesh is destroyed at the point of sanctification then we can experience continual walking in the Spirit.

Re: The doctrine of subsequence
 

Luke what is interesting is you consider water baptism not a work of God and simply obedience. Please explain Col 2:12.

Buried and RAISED in baptism, but thats a whole 'nother topic.

Re: The doctrine of subsequence
 

Off topic.

Re: The doctrine of subsequence
 

no its not it has everything to do with the topic.

Re: The doctrine of subsequence
 

Are you saying that our carnal nature is dealt with at the point of baptism and at that point we are entirely sanctified?

Re: The doctrine of subsequence
 

If total submission does not come at repentance, then those who have repented are still in sin, for Jesus says the greatest commandment is to love God with all the heart, mind, soul, and strength.

If one is not totally submitted to God, then one does not obey the Great Commandment, and thus one has not in fact truly repented.

Right?

Re: The doctrine of subsequence
 

Not what I meant at all. What I was referring to was the same thing that Paul talks of when he speaks of the inner war that rages within believers between the flesh and the Spirit

Galatians 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

At the point of sanctification the flesh (carnal nature) is done away with/removed. Then there is total submission. Before this happens total submission is not possible

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Re: The doctrine of subsequence
 

Help me please.

Are you saying that you're "sanctified" and "walking in the Spirit" to the point of being "free from sin".


J/W

Re: The doctrine of subsequence
 

Yes but not just sanctified Upton a point but as it says in 1 Thessalonians 523,24 wholly sanctified.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 5:24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.