Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson (Post 259514)

The Bible says to examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith or not ,so can we examine ourselves without asking questions ?
We might find ourselves in error on something,The Holy Ghost always leads one into truth.

Originally Posted by DAII (Post 967094)

Here again is where you've linked a verb (paralambano) to only have a positive connotation by repeatedly giving a partial definition.

Originally Posted by Praxeas (Post 967129)

No, what I did was point out how the word is defined and shown the context. Again it's not one or the other.

but let's take a look at this word anyways.
take, take along; receive, accept (often of a tradition); learn (1 Th 4:1); take charge of (Jn 19:16b)

Newman, B. M. (1993). A Concise Greek-English dictionary of the New Testament. (133). Stuttgart, Germany: Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft; United Bible Societies.

In the Noah part two classes of people are exhibited. Those that are received or taken into the ark and those that are left behind for judgment

The word, as I showed earlier, is used when one person receives or takes another person to themselves like in a marriage. God didn't take sinners to Himself. He destroyed them in the flood. The Ark represents God's favor, he received Noah and separated them from the rest.

paralambán?.
A. paralambánein in the Greek and Hellenistic World. This compound has such senses as “to take over,” e.g., a position, and “to inherit,” especially intellectual things, e.g., a student from a teacher. It is important in philosophy, for most knowledge is handed down orally, and since it is practical, the teacher is an authoritative leader whose goal is the formation of character and who will still be respected even should the students strike out on their own (cf. Socrates). The handing down of questions, and of certain religious doctrines, is also significant, and we also find paralambán? in the mysteries for the inheriting of special rites and secrets, although with a stress on oral impartation rather than supernatural revelation.

C. paralambán? in the NT.
1. With a personal object the term is used for the reception of Christ by the world (Jn. 1:11) and for acceptance into the kingdom of Christ (Jn. 14:3; Mt. 24:40–41).

Kittel, G., Friedrich, G., & Bromiley, G. W. (1995). Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (497). Grand Rapids, MI: W.B. Eerdmans.

That is what Paralambano means and how it is used


Noah was not taken in judgment, He was taken away FROM judgment. It was those left behind, outside the safety of the ark that were judged. Same with Lot's wife, she stayed behind.

Lot was accepted because of the plea of Abraham. The angels took them away from judgment and his wife returned or stayed behind.

You have the same thing going on through the context.

Mat 25:1 "At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.
Mat 25:2 Five of the virgins were foolish, and five were wise.
Mat 25:3 When the foolish ones took their lamps, they did not take extra olive oil with them.
Mat 25:4 But the wise ones took flasks of olive oil with their lamps.
Mat 25:5 When the bridegroom was delayed a long time, they all became drowsy and fell asleep.
Mat 25:6 But at midnight there was a shout, 'Look, the bridegroom is here! Come out to meet him.'
Mat 25:7 Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps.
Mat 25:8 The foolish ones said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil, because our lamps are going out.'
Mat 25:9 'No,' they replied. 'There won't be enough for you and for us. Go instead to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.'
Mat 25:10 But while they had gone to buy it, the bridegroom arrived, and those who were ready went inside with him to the wedding banquet. Then the door was shut.
Mat 25:11 Later, the other virgins came too, saying, 'Lord, lord! Let us in!'
Mat 25:12 But he replied, 'I tell you the truth, I do not know you!'
Mat 25:13 Therefore stay alert, because you do not know the day or the hour.

Here is an illustration by Jesus of what happens on that day or hour. He receives his people and leaves behind the unbelievers.

In each of these parables there are always 2 groups. The wicked are always removed from the Lord's presence or favor and the Righteous are received.

Received or the greek word in question, has as it's intent an acceptance as well

Joh 1:11 He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him.


the majority of the times it is used it has as it's meaning favor. But you are ignoring what I've said already several times that it's not merely this word and it's definition but the context. It's not one or the other.

Again Noah. Noah has favor and is taken into the ark and the wicked left behind for destruction.

Lot, Lot is removed from the area of judgment and those left behind in Sodom (including his wife) are destroyed.

In each circumstance there are 2 classes of people and the class that is judged are those left behind. The class not judged are those removed from judgement or taken away. They have God's favor



Hermeneutics tells us to examine the context, which I did, and the grammar, which I did.


Taken up to where? Even in the examples you used Jesus is taken some place, removed from whatever location he was in.

In our examples we have Noah's ark where they find safety from judgment, showing they have God's favor. The wicked are not taken some place and then judged. They are destroyed outside the safety of the ark

Lot, taken to safety and those left behind are not taken to a location then judged but judged where they are.

Also the judgements of Mathew 24 seem to be temporal, judgments poured out on the earth

Anyways, since Im a pantribber it's not that important to me and I do see the counter point and how you can come to that conclusion

Originally Posted by Praxeas (Post 966956)

It has nothing to do with heritage, it's context and grammar...back to hermeneutics

Originally Posted by crakjak (Post 967221)

Sure it is heritage and tradition, very hard things to disagree with.

Originally Posted by Praxeas (Post 967226)

In your case maybe. Im not a pre-tribber so I don't have a dog in the fight. Im just looking at the grammar and context