Originally Posted by Amanah (Post 1607629)

Dead as asleep in Christ :)

Sleeping in Jesus :happydance

Originally Posted by 1 God (Post 1607628)

The baptism of the Holy Ghost will provide the proper spiritual insight. Distortion of God’s word by religions is not spiritual insight, but spiritual distortion.

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 (Post 1607632)

Some of the most naturally minded people I know, are those who have the Holy Ghost. It's sad!

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 (Post 1607627)

2 years ago a saint died, and at his death he looked up and spoke to his pastor these words, "pastor, the chariots of fire, there real!" In just a short time after that he died. I may or I may not tell another story in about 6-10 months from now about what an elder saw in a dream.

A very good pastor friend of mine, whom I consider a mentor, has had the opportunity to be at the bed side of the departing, both the saved and the lost. One women, was dying and as she was dying starting to scream in a tormenting voice, "there is only ONE God".

[I]I Corinthians 2:9
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. /I]

Whats on the other side is a dimension that this natural mind cannot comprehend. Thats why Paul said about the heavenly place, "heard unspeakable words, that is unlawful for man to utter.''

Im beginning to firmly believe in order for a individual to understand Gods word, they have to be fully committed to the spiritual things of God. Otherwise through the natural eye, all they'll see is things natural.

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 (Post 1607632)

Originally Posted by 1 God (Post 1607633)

Not sad, but smart. Wait on God for revelation instead of butchering Revelations.

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister (Post 1607635)

Always good advice.

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister (Post 1607634)

Brother,

All you have to do is back off on those cheeseburgers and French fries. You will become more spiritual. If you go without that nasty natural food long enough you will starve that filthy natural flesh to death and spirit is all that remains.

The truth of the matter is that we should balance the natural and the spiritual. Nobody conceives children in the spirit. Most meals are not eaten while speaking in tongues. God’s plan is that we balance the natural and the spiritual. To say otherwise (we should be all spiritual) is contrary to God’s plan.

At some level you understand this. Have you eaten in , I don’t know, the last three or four weeks? Did you have anything for breakfast?

You are entirely too natural minded. Shame on you for feeding your nasty, filthy flesh. You are soooooooo carnal! (A small bit of sarcasm, just a hint, is included in this post. It was entirely of the flesh, but it may be a parable. A story of natural happenings, that has a spiritual parallel.)

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 (Post 1607637)

You don’t do 3-4 week fasts?

It shows a lot that when I say we have to be committed to the spirit fully, and you bring up food as some way to counter act the fact to understand spiritual things one needs to be spiritual.

One elder told me the other day, he was on a 28 day fast, and it was his last day of the fast. He walked out of his house and his stomach grumbled and he said “just for doing that, we’re going to go another three days”. Lol! I love it.

Originally Posted by TJJJ (Post 1607639)

Nicodemus, pearls before swine friend, pearls before swine.

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 (Post 1607632)

Some of the most naturally minded people I know, are those who have the Holy Ghost. It's sad!

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1607641)

Really?

Wow.

No wonder this forum is dead as the doornails in a Baptist church.

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister (Post 1607638)

Yes I don’t do three or four weeks of fasting.

The question was to you though.

Have you eaten anything in the last three or four weeks?

The reason the elders stomach grumbled is because he is in the flesh. It wasn’t his spirit that growled, it was his flesh.

Why did his flesh growl?

Because he is carnal. I guarantee that.

Originally Posted by 1 God (Post 1607643)

So true. Brethren that preach and obey Acts 2:38 are not swine(pigs), but merely brethren with different opinions. This forum runs off great contributors with carnal insults of brethren.

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 (Post 1607646)

I will not answer the question on have I eaten in the past three to four weeks.

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 (Post 1607646)

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 (Post 1607646)

He could not speak nor teach unto the church the ways of the spiritual because they were STILL carnal.

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 (Post 1607646)

And I guarantee you that they were eating and drinking, yet Paul wasn't talking about them going out to *Sabbath Day Burgers and Fries.

That does have a nice ring to it. :)

Originally Posted by Amanah (Post 1607612)

Wrong!

Originally Posted by Amanah (Post 1607615)

1 Cor 15

42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Originally Posted by Amanah (Post 1607618)

Your natural body is resurrected as a spiritual body, from mortal to immortal.

Originally Posted by coksiw (Post 1607651)

Do you believe in a spiritual resurrection? Will we be spirits or living glorified material human bodies?

Originally Posted by Amanah (Post 1607652)

1 Cor 15 gives the explanation

The Resurrection Body
35 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body do they come?” 36 You foolish person! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 And what you sow is not the body that is to be, but a bare kernel, perhaps of wheat or of some other grain. 38 But God gives it a body as he has chosen, and to each kind of seed its own body. 39 For not all flesh is the same, but there is one kind for humans, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish. 40 There are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is of one kind, and the glory of the earthly is of another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.

42 So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. 43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”;[e] the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual. 47 The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall[f] also bear the image of the man of heaven.

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1607575)

Not one passage of which says three or third, you are reading that into the texts. See my post about an alternative explanation here ---> http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...&postcount=289





Nonsense. All of it.

By the way, I teach both dialectic and classical rhetoric (with Aphthonius, Cicero, and Quintillian as the primary source material for rhetoric) and I'm quite capable of recognising rhetorical devices and methods. Which you do not seem to be very aware of, as ALL COMMUNICATION IS RHETORICAL. I would say what you are falling victim to is classical sophistry, however.

Paul said he would not boast of himself having visions and revelations. His ethical proofs demand he be honest about that. Ergo, he is (unless he is a liar, which means he has no ethos, and the pathos of his epistle goes down the drain, wiped up with the parchment of his logos). So the person being described as having particular visions and revelations is someone other than himself.

I have NEVER read the passage any other way. When I found people claiming he was ackshuwally boasting about himself, I could only chalk it up to yet another example of standard "trinitarian style logic". Kind of like how some claim when God says He is One He ackshuwally means They are Three... :)

Originally Posted by coksiw (Post 1607653)

How do you understand it?

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister (Post 1607650)

Sorry! I asked a question that was too hard for you to answer. Let me make it easier.
Have you eaten in the last three or four months?

Years?

Let me know when I get it to a level that you can answer. I’m trying to make it easy for you. I’m trying to teach you something. You are pretending to be spiritual, and not at all carnal, which is hogwash. I’m not saying you aren’t spiritual, I’m just saying that you are carnal and pretend that you’re not. There are ways to tell: If you are eating or drinking, if you have a pulse, if you are not room temperature, all these are signs of carnality.

On the other hand, if you are not displaying any of these signs, it is a sign that we have a disembodied spirit posting on AFF. Or a liar. Or perhaps you don’t know what carnality is (which is a very real possibility). The options are really limited.

So, a really easy question for you (or it should be);

Are you carnal?




I am basically telling you what Paul was saying. “Are ye not carnal?” I hope his audience received it better than you have. You are pretending (perhaps even believe) that you are not carnal. Or perhaps you believe that it is not possible to be both.


Of course they were still carnal. But you are wrong to say that he couldn’t teach them because they were still carnal. The reason he couldn’t teach them is because they were babes in Christ. Their spirituality had not developed, or matured. Paul merely pointed this out to them. All of Paul’s letters to the church were written to carnal men. They were not spirits exclusively. Much of Paul’s teaching was about the balance of the spiritual and the natural, and even the carnal man. You seem to have interpreted his teaching to mean:

Carnal=Bad

Spiritual=Good

That is not what he was teaching.

I know this is probably going to shock you but:

Paul himself was carnal!!!

And he admitted to being so!!!

Oh the scandal.

Rom.7

[14] For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

If you notice, Paul is saying “I am carnal” , he’s not saying I used to be carnal, before I was Spirit-filled. He is admitting to being carnal while he is writing his letter to Rome.

But you pretend to be other than carnal. I’m calling you out on that. As long as you live in the body that has physical needs, you are carnal. Saying otherwise is sowing confusion.



The reason it has a nice ring to it is why?

Because you are carnal!

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 (Post 1607656)

Romans 8:5-13
[5] For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[6] For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[8] So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
[10] And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
[11] But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
[12] Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. [13] For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Instead of justifying your sinful acts through an unbiblical explanation of carnality, how about you humble yourself, seek the spirit, by destroying the deeds of the body. Once then submit yourself fully to the spirit and that little devil that you cower to you’ll now have authority to resist it.

BTW the natural man hungers, sleeps, eats etc… Jesus himself did those things, yet to call Jesus carnal because he ate is ignorant.

Oh yeah, I have eaten in the last 3-4 months.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa (Post 1607580)

I see that you never acknowledged what I pointed out in your post. You admitted that the story of Eliezer/Lazarus is the only place where you can use as a place of torments. Yet, you can't find anywhere a place called "Bosom of Abraham" is found in the Old Testament. Death was a state of sleeping in the Old Testament. The dead weren't aware of anything because of their state of sleeping in death. In John 11:11 Jesus explains this to His followers. How do you have Abraham, Eliezer/Lazarus and the rich man awake in an after life, and Jesus explaining that in Lazarus (brother of Martha, and Mary) is asleep, and needed to be brought back from the dead was to be awakened?

Originally Posted by coksiw (Post 1607654)

All communication have rhetorical aspects but not all communication puts rhetorical impact over accuracy. I am a scientist, in a field of applied mathematics.

Originally Posted by shag (Post 1607660)

Not only that, He considers himself chief of sinners in 1 Tim. 1:15


AM chief, present tense.



Talk about level ground at the cross…


Yet then says, shall we continue in sin? God forbid.


Sounds like he’s full of humility to me, not so much full of sin.

Originally Posted by Amanah (Post 1607655)

Paul is contrasting the natural mortal body with the eternal body. God created Adam from the earth and breathed into him the breath of life. Christ is the last man Adam and His resurrection gave Him a spiritual imperishable body. When the dead in Christ are resurrected they will likewise have a spiritual imperishable body.

The dead in Christ, upon resurrection, will be imperishable and glorified, bearing the image of Christ.

Originally Posted by shag (Post 1607660)

Not only that, He considers himself chief of sinners in 1 Tim. 1:15


AM chief, present tense.



Talk about level ground at the cross…


Yet then says, shall we continue in sin? God forbid.


Sounds like he’s full of humility to me, not so much full of sin.

Originally Posted by Amanah (Post 1607655)

Paul is contrasting the natural mortal body with the eternal body. God created Adam from the earth and breathed into him the breath of life. Christ is the last man Adam and His resurrection gave Him a spiritual imperishable body. When the dead in Christ are resurrected they will likewise have a spiritual imperishable body.

The dead in Christ, upon resurrection, will be imperishable and glorified, bearing the image of Christ.

Originally Posted by diakonos (Post 1607665)

I asked, because that is what OSAS uses to excuse themselves. :)

Originally Posted by coksiw (Post 1607668)

Sorry, I still don’t see the answer to my question. What do you understand as “spiritual” ? Is it a spirit? No flesh? No bones? No organs?

Originally Posted by Amanah (Post 1607671)

Jesus has a physical body
Luke 24:39
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

But unlike an earthly body, He also has an imperishable body
1 Corinthians 15:50
I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

Originally Posted by shag (Post 1607672)

50Now I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

Behold the mystery……. 53For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable and the mortal with immortality,g then the saying that is written will come to pass: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”


Interesting wording distinction speaking of our bodies-

Perishable cannot inherit the imperishable.
HOWEVER, the perishable will be CLOTHED with the imperishable
And the mortal CLOTHED with immortality. (The mystery, we shall be changed)


So what exactly is he meaning, when he says the perishable cannot inherit the imperishable?

Is it simply saying that our perishable bodies cannot inherit an imperishable (spiritual) kingdom….there has to be be a change?

Originally Posted by coksiw (Post 1607674)

So you believe his glorified body is his earthly body changed correct? His body had flesh, bones, organs, like a human body but immortal and imperishable. Is that what you believe?

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1607677)

The glorified body has not yet been made manifest, so we do not yet know all the details of what the result of the change looks like, as it were. Jesus said this:

Luke 20:35-36 KJV
But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: [36] Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

Angels have bodies and often interact as men, yet they also are what we would call a higher more advanced species. We don't know the details of what angels may look like in their full glory, nor do we know exactly and completely what we will be like when we are changed.