Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

This is my only problem with the Death Penalty. I was amazed at the number of wrongful convictions for serious crimes that DNA testing has uncovered. I do not know how God treats the wrongful execution of an innocent man or woman, but I do know that I would hate to be one of those people or to be complicit in the execution of one of those people.

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

Not really, at least that was not my intent as I stated how I felt about the issue. There are components of the issue that involve heaven/hell, but the ultimate question is concerning whether we, as Christians, should support civil government-sponsored killing.

That's my whole point!

Not really. I believe that we ARE responsible to protect those who look to us for protection (namely, our families). The death penalty is not about protection, it's about retribution or punishment for a crime. The victims were not protected. The time for protection is past. Now it's time for doling out the punishment. If you are referring to protection from future criminal acts, surely keeping them incarcerated solves that dilemma.

My only argument here is off topic. God does not require a "holy life" before He provides the supernatural component.

I understand what you are saying, and I respect that when people commit crime they do it with the knowledge of the punishment for that crime. But, again, your closing statements are based on emotion, not principles of scripture, with not a single quote from the Bible.

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

It rains on the Just and the unjust. Just because someone prays does not mean that they will never face opposition or danger.
I feel that it is the individual's responsibility to do all they can, and rely on God for the rest.

I can train, I can carry, and I will rely on God to keep me out of such situations, or if ever in one, I rely on Him to help me overcome it.

Some people simply do not have the mindset to carry, shoot train etc.
They should do all that THEY can. Then I believe God will fill in the rest.
For those of us who can, I believe we are expected to do so.

It is possible to find oneself in a situation where there is simply no time for anything but action. Sure, while taking action, if at all possible call the name of Jesus while drawing the weapon. but that split second afterward while you are praying, you might as well be praying you don't die from the stab wound you have already received, and that your family can outrun the guy who is likely already swinging at THEM.

I personally believe that would be using the talents God gave unwisely.
He gave me talents. I will develop them, and use them if necessary.
I also will pray that I never have to use them, but I will not bury them in the ground either.

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

So you agree that prayer isn't always answered (other than perhaps the "sometimes the answer is 'no'" non-answer). OK.

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

Personally, I believe he treats it just as any other murder.
And I do agree with your concern, thats why I think the DP should be completely reformed.

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty

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Quote:
Originally Posted by meBNme
In that light, we should be discussing scripture and its stand on it.

That's my whole point!

In my personal opinion, it is a flawed view of the DP and its purpose.
We may simply have to agree to disagree on that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meBNme
However, in my opinion, as I stated above, we are looking at it incorrectly here.
It is more an issue of Should Christians be willing to take whatever steps necessary to protect and defend those who they have responsibility for.

Not really. I believe that we ARE responsible to protect those who look to us for protection (namely, our families). The death penalty is not about protection, it's about retribution or punishment for a crime. The victims were not protected. The time for protection is past. Now it's time for doling out the punishment. If you are referring to protection from future criminal acts, surely keeping them incarcerated solves that dilemma.

As I stated in my first post, I believe that the DP when used properly is not vengeance or even so much retribution. It is prevention and deterrent.
If everyone knew, that there are certain lines that if you cross them YOU HAVE CHOSEN DEATH. That is a deterrent.
If used properly, only those who are highly likely to commit the crimes again would face the DP. That is prevention.
Life in prison today is a joke, and I feel that it needs to be clear to all that there are some crimes that will land you in prison. Some crimes will put you away for life. Some crimes will end your existence on this earth.

BTW, the original victims may not have been protected, but how many other victims would be protected if it were a clear, cut and dried case, and the DP was used properly?

Quote:

My only argument here is off topic. God does not require a "holy life" before He provides the supernatural component.

I agree that he does not require a Holy life before the infilling of the Holy Ghost. But I do believe he requires a Holy life afterward. To believe otherwise would be to believe the once saved always saved doctrine IMO.

The point being, he requires things of us, then He does what we cannot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by meBNme
The death penalty if used properly, is nothing but permanently preventing repeat offenders, and unrepentant criminals of life destroying crimes from ever doing it again.

It has been presented here as if the Death penalty is taking away their choice and sending them to hell.
THEY MADE THEIR CHOICE when they committed the crime.
They made their choice when they chose not to repent and change.
We have a responsibility to to others to ensure that the criminal can never again take away a law abiding citizens choice to live, to be saved.

What of the mother jogging in the park who is raped and killed?
What about HER choice, and chance at salvation?

Are we to allow unrepentant and repeat offending criminals who are in the very act of the crime MAKING THEIR CHOICE, to rob others of THEIR choice, and chance at salvation?

We have a responsibility to stop them. By whatever means necessary.

I understand what you are saying, and I respect that when people commit crime they do it with the knowledge of the punishment for that crime. But, again, your closing statements are based on emotion, not principles of scripture, with not a single quote from the Bible.

I believe it is more than emotion. It is a fact, we DO have a responsibility to stop criminals from endangering our loved ones.

And its a serious question, what about the victims chance at salvation? what about their choice? Can we allow people who have MADE THEIR CHOICE to rob others of their choice and chance?
I think its far more than emotion, it is our responsibility.

AS I am sure you have seen, in my following post I did make reference to scripture, to use it to substantiate my statements and solidify my stand on the subject.

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

OK, so, here is an example of a criminal who makes the DP a necessity.

http://news.aol.com/article/killer-t...ath-row/218984

Does he sound repentant? Sound like he wants to change?

Has incarceration eliminated his ability to pose a threat to society?

A resounding NO.

He has made his choice. He literally asked for execution and for all appeals to be stopped.

Not only is he a threat to society if left to his on devices, he is still a threat even in prison.

That type of criminal simply needs to be stopped, by whatever means necessary, and never allowed pose a threat again.

Humanity will find a way to beat a human system. The only way to stop his kind, is the death penalty.

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

WOW...... did that last post completely shut down the discussion?

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

Guess so. I'm still waiting for someone to talk Bible with me about this - without all the emotion.

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

He's a good boy, he never did anything to hurt anyone.

He has a good mother; how dare they deny him a cell phone.

If she can get one to him he can call he on the weekends to let her know how he's and his playmates are getting along.

(Name withheld for security reasons)