Originally Posted by pelathais (Post 346759)

FAITH CALLETH THOSE THINGS THAT BE NOT AS THOUGH THEY WERE
Our subject is a far reaching text, and if God were not back of it, it could not be counted as truth; but with Him back of it of whom it is written that there is nothing impossible, we dare to trust it to be workable. The law of faith is as sure to bring results as any other law that is properly complied with. First God promises, then we believe, and the result is that we get what we have believed for.

God made a promise to Abram that he would have a son, and he considered not the deadness of himself nor the deadness of Sarah's womb, but he was strong in faith giving glory to God, While he was yet childless he believed God was able to make alive from the dead; so God called the “things that be not as though they were” and changed his name to Abraham, meaning the father of many nations.

The text is written of Abraham, who by faith became the father of us all. For Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness, for it was imputed to him without works (See Romans 4:5-6). Because Abraham lived before the New Testament came into force (Hebrews 9:16-17) God could not impart righteousness (the Holy Ghost is our righteousness) to him so He just counted him righteous.

Now while Abraham had righteousness accounted to him, yet he with all the other Old Testament worthies died in faith having not received the promise, God having provided some better thing for us (Hebrews 11:39-40). But if he had lived on till the Day of Pentecost, he would have been found in the upper room with the other believers waiting for the "better thing” the promise of the Holy Ghost!

We so often meet with the question, “What are you going to do with the many faithful people who have lived for God and yet never experienced the baptism of the Holy Ghost as in Acts 2:4?” Then we are glad for our text by which we can answer that God can call those things which be not as though they were. If God would count Abraham's faith for righteousness and call him the “father of many” while he was yet childless, is it not just like Him to do that for my old faithful grandmother? Yes, He can and does, thank God! I am not talking about all the professors that died before the outpouring of the Spirit, but I am talking about those who really walked with God. When those precious souls surrendered their lives to the known will of God, they were made happy in the blessing He gave them and the blood gave them a clean slate, a perfect standing before God. Yet we have to admit that their state was far different from that of a Spirit-filled believer of today. Can we not believe that their standing was just as good as ours, that God through their faith would call the things that be not as though they were?

However, if those same people had lived on to see our day of increased light and had desired to keep their standing, they too would have embraced Acts 2:4 and would soon have been rejoicing in a Spirit filled life. Thus their standing would have remained the same, but their state would have been greatly changed.

J.H.D.

Originally Posted by stmatthew (Post 346751)

Your attached article is a far stretch of scripture. I did notice that he only allowed this Light doctrine for those that were "after" the outpouring.

Originally Posted by Felicity (Post 346755)

Oh, that makes me feel better. I'm not the only one who deletes posts for that reason. :highfive


Like I said my point was predominantly a light-hearted one. I don't believe the scripture I mentioned is referring to salvation, but yet I think we make things more complicated than what they're meant to be and particularly understanding and knowing the work Christ does in hearts and lives prior to water baptism and the baptism of the Holy Spirit that is promised to every believer.

We can't dictate what God does and doesn't accomplish in a person's life and heart regardless of whether or not what we determine protocol should be (in regard to salvation ... steps and all) is followed.

I heard a fantastic testimony today on the radio that was so marvelous of a man who when when he turned his life over to Christ was amazingly and totally transformed. He became a new creature in Christ instantly as far as spiritual transformation goes.

Originally Posted by stmatthew (Post 346763)

again, this is a mans opinion, and not any realistic proof of a light doctrine. See, a true light doctrine has to allow ANYONE to be saved in whatever light they are walking in.

Originally Posted by stmatthew (Post 346763)

Either Acts 2:38 is right, or it ain't.

Originally Posted by mizpeh (Post 346767)

After I repented, it totally changed my outlook on things. I didn't think the same as I did before. All I could think about was God. All I wanted to do was read the Bible and tell others about Jesus. I didn't want to do the things I did before. I didn't want to sin or do anything that would displease God. The old man was dead but not buried and resurrected anew.

I don't discount anyone's experience with God when they have repented. A great change occurs but is it regeneration according to the Bible?

Originally Posted by Felicity (Post 346770)

How can it be anything else?

How else can you define or explain the change that takes place that Scripture says is possible only through the regenerating work and effect of the Holy Ghost?

Originally Posted by mizpeh (Post 346789)

Conviction is a work of the Spirit. Repentance is a work of the Spirit. But that doesn't mean the work is being done by God's Spirit INSIDE of us.

The Samaritans in Acts 8 believed and were baptized but they had not received the Spirit. We are surrounded by the Spirit of God. He doesn't have to be in us to work on our minds. The devil can work on folks minds as well without actually possessing them.

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster (Post 346181)

It's one thing to say there was always a significant remnant of "Apostolic" adherants. It's another to say there was no one who believed and obeyed in the same manner we do.

Both assumptions are patently false.

Originally Posted by philjones (Post 346203)

I will simply say that I am not responsible for what God does in his mercy. I am responsible for what I see in the written Word of God. What I see in the Word is the essentiality and salvific effect of Baptism in Jesus Name. I feel personal responsibility to preach and teach the same. What Jesus does in mercy... i.e. the numerous scenarios portrayed of deathbed repentance and an inability to reach water or a lack of time to be filled with the Holy Ghost... I am not responsible for. I can, however, preach and teach what I see in the Word concerning the proper response to the Gospel simultaneously and parallel to teaching the power and covering of HIS MERCY.

Does that make me a cop out or a Schizoid? I don't think so but you may and that is fine with me! :)

Originally Posted by Ferd (Post 346207)

lets see, off the top of my head?
Mark 16:16 he that believes and is baptized shall be saved.
1 Peter 3:21 baptism now saves you...
Gal 3:27 for as many as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.