Apostolic Friends Forum - **Herald Begins Apostolic Identity Campaign **

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Re: Herald: Begins Apostolic Identity Campaign

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 700761)

The notion that somehow some of the relevant churches are frothy and pizzazz is OBVIOUSLY targeting them as some how shallow and no-frills ... this is FAR from the truth ...

many of these churches are teaching-centered ... sans the 3-4 running and hollering, emotional "experience" centered churches that are pervasive in our movement ...

Look at the church sites of a lot of the churches that are being targeted ... you'll find them stacked with teaching series.

Sure you can grab some coffee and a doughnut during their sessions but let's be real ... many of these churches are centers of reasoned learning ... and many of their leaders are highly educated ... and schooled in hermeneutical ethic.

Yeah but lets be honest. Most pentecostal churches will only teach if it is in a defensive manner. My pastor started teaching in Sunday School classes and the folks when ballistic. My dad allowed open and honest debate in his class back at the UPC and we all ended up leaving. By the time he realized where it all was headed it was to late and he tried his best to bring us back to the traditions of the UPC. Only problem is that once you start people thinking for themselves you can't predict their direction.

Re: **Herald Begins Apostolic Identity Campaign **

What's more important? The Apostolic identity (culture) or the Apostolic message? Is it possible that the focus has been so much on identity to the point where teaching has become secondary?

Re: Herald: Begins Apostolic Identity Campaign

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh (Post 700763)

If these churches are stacked with teaching series and the leaders are highly educated then I don't believe this article is addressing them. But it is definitely trying to encourage and sustain an Apostolic identity in the next generation with a drive at education and experience not experience alone.

I agree... and I dont see anything wrong with that at all.

And when I look at the article as a whole, I dont where it's addressing "relevant" churches in particular. I think permissiveness, slackness, and lack of sound teaching in general are worthy topics to be addressed. But we shouldnt assume they're speaking of "relevant" churches in particular every time those issues are addressed.

What they're saying, especially this part (below) could apply to a lot of Pentecostal/Charismatic churches & movements we've seen:

Quote:

The receptivity of the age has birthed the emergence of a multiplicity of many hybrids and blends of Pentecostal/Charismatic churches. Collectively, these churches have done a thorough job of educating the Christian world about the work of the Holy Spirit. Churches that encourage spirited worship and the expectation of the miraculous are growing, while the staid churches are dying. But, in spite of this surge of growth, we are failing to teach people the fundamentals of the Christian faith. This lackluster emphasis on teaching and educating our constituents is pervasive and goes across denominational lines. A piece of this religious cultural shift is a diminished emphasis on Sunday school and Bible study. We have moved beyond the “age of reason” to the age of “feeling.” Many churches are putting much of their efforts into contemporary methods that major on fun, entertainment, socially interactive projects, and loads of froth and pizzazz. The “Christianity-lite” approach is appealing to the masses because it appeals to the sensual, omits duty and commitment, and promises answers toward personal fulfillment.

Re: **Herald Begins Apostolic Identity Campaign **

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Steinway (Post 700767)

What's more important? The Apostolic identity (culture) or the Apostolic message? Is it possible that the focus has been so much on identity to the point where teaching has become secondary?

I think judging from what the author is saying... the Apostolic message is the key component of the Apostolic Identity, much more so than "culture".

If you even look at the article quoted from earlier in this thread, he makes repeated references to teaching and education , and none to Apostolic "culture".

Re: **Herald Begins Apostolic Identity Campaign **

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRFrance (Post 700770)

If that means we're identified by our doctrinal stance instead of our "look", I'm cool with that!

Re: Herald: Begins Apostolic Identity Campaign

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 700761)

The notion that somehow some of the relevant churches are frothy and just pizzazz is OBVIOUSLY targeting them as some how shallow and no-frills ... this is FAR from the truth ...

many of these churches are teaching-centered ... sans the 3-4 running and hollering, emotional "experience" centered churches that are pervasive in our movement ...

Look at the church sites of a lot of the churches that are being targeted ... you'll find them stacked with teaching series.

Sure you can grab some coffee and a doughnut during their sessions but let's be real ... many of these churches are centers of reasoned learning ... and many of their leaders are highly educated ... and schooled in hermeneutical ethic.

You're right Dan. I have to wonder where he's getting his information. Does he cite any sources? This is not much more than broadbrushing and a straw man. It's interesting because this group he's targeting here seems more like the seeker sensitive movement than it does the emergent movement, even though he uses the working 'emergence' to describe them. His descriptors don't really apply to emerging churches. If he's referring to the seeker sensitive movement he has a legit gripe, but even then the grand daddy of all seeker churches, willow creek, has admitted to these short comings and is making MAJOR changes in their approach to deep the spirituality of their churches and one of the major statements is that people need to become more Bible based and they're making major advances in this area.

So, I'm not sure who he's talking about here. Idk, it sounds like the kind of general broadbrushing and demonization that goes on that uninformed people believe because it sounds informed.

Re: **Herald Begins Apostolic Identity Campaign **

What is contained in the Apostolic doctrinal system that he's advocating here? Is it code for 'holiness standards' or does it refer to something else?

Re: **Herald Begins Apostolic Identity Campaign **

Quick!

Tell me again why we have shed the word "Pentecostal" and picked up "Apostolic."

Penetcostal = experience.

Apostolic = looks.

Re: **Herald Begins Apostolic Identity Campaign **

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 700752)

Ron Wofford says,

And it's this environment that has spawned the leaders and the voices of the "emerging" "relevant" movement ....

Get accredited and then maybe folks will consider it ....

Yep, I was thinking the same thing,on both counts.

Re: **Herald Begins Apostolic Identity Campaign **

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin (Post 700781)

Quick!

Tell me again why we have shed the word "Pentecostal" and picked up "Apostolic."

Penetcostal = experience.

Apostolic = looks.

Apostolic = doctrine