Re: Barna states that 1/3 of US is Pent./Charis.
 

You may believe Barna's technique was valid. Frankly, I don't agree that it was. But whether you do or not, the fact is, if his survey gives people the impression that "1/3 of the US is pentecostal or charismatic" as the title of this thread reads, then the conclusions his poll leads people to is woefully inaccurate.

Re: Barna states that 1/3 of US is Pent./Charis.
 

OK, let's say it IS flawed. (which I don't think it is) Let's cut the number in 1/2 and you still come up with 50 million which is a HUGE number and still worthy of note. :D

Re: Barna states that 1/3 of US is Pent./Charis.
 

Barna published his methodology. The technique IS valid.

If you read the post I was actually agreeing with you. Interpreting results is where the false conclusions come to play. AND as I pointed out MOST on this forum would strongly disagree with his definitions of "Charismatic" and "Pentecostal"

(As an aside are you always this hard on people trying to agree with you?)



:toofunny

Re: Barna states that 1/3 of US is Pent./Charis.
 

??
I don't see how you thought I was being "hard" on you. Lets not be so thin-skinned, brother.

Indeed, I did see where you were agreeing with me on certain points.

However, I just
1...disagreed with the contention that his methodology was valid (primarily because I think the criteria/questions he employed don't go to the traditional definition of what "pentecostal/charismatic" has long meant), and
2... went on to further state that the bigger issue is not his methodology but the conclusions his poll will lead many to (i.e. "100 million Pentecostals/Charismatics").

Re: Barna states that 1/3 of US is Pent./Charis.
 

My own unscientific study is like this. There are about 120 staff on the shift I work at any given time. I have had occasion to meet many of them in five years. I have either directly witnessed to or at least brought the Lord up in conversation with many (not all) of them.

Over those five years it breaks down like this to the best of my memory. I have met one Trinitarian Pentecostal from Assemblies of God. One Apostolic sister now backslid. One Charismatic sister (dynamic witness) and one Non denominational Pentecostal who leans toward Oneness. One guy who claims the Holy Ghost from his days in the Jesus Movement who told me he has not been active in serving Christ for some time.

Counting me that makes six Pentecostal/Charismatics out of well over 120 people that claim this label in five years. That comes out to ABOUT 5 per cent over the five year period.

At present the guy from the Jesus movement, if he is now serving God is the only one left beside me as a few of the others have left. I have not had occasion to speak to him of late. It is possible I am the only Pentecostal now on my shift. One out of at least 120 people.

However when I ask people if they know Jesus the vast majority say they either are or were a Baptist but they nearly all say they are not where they should be with Jesus.

Tons of Baptists. Almost no Pentecostals at all.

Re: Barna states that 1/3 of US is Pent./Charis.
 

For one, George Barna is not a new kid on the block when it comes to surveys. He is well versed in statistics and polls. He follows the same principles other pollsters do when conducting surveys. I am sure he knows what questions to ask and how to ask them. I am not saying he's perfect, but he does know what he is doing.

Re: Barna states that 1/3 of US is Pent./Charis.
 

Just so we can be on the same page with terminology...

You suggested he polled and counted entire churches. He actually did random samplings of individuals and as such his methodology was correct and valid within +/- 3 points on a 95% confidence scale. That was his statistical methodology.

He also explained how his terms were defined when the questions were asked, so his conclusion of 80 million Pentecostal/Charismatics was valid.

HOWEVER, his definition of Pentecostal and Charismatic would GREATLY differ from the definitions utilized by the majority of the posters in this forum..

Just as the terms conservative and liberal carry very different meanings in a secular political discussion than they would on this forum.

So he was right according to the parameters of the poll.

You are also 100% right in stating from the world view of most posters here the VAST majority of those claiming to be Pentecostal or Charismatic should have been excluded.

:-)

Re: Barna states that 1/3 of US is Pent./Charis.
 

I guess to be fair, it took the 120 almost 300 years before you could say that they had "changed the known world."

Re: Barna states that 1/3 of US is Pent./Charis.
 

When Mercy's River (River of Life) reached our family:

My great grandmother was a charter member of the Methodist Church for 48 yrs.
Her daughter, my paternal grandmother was a member for 21 yrs and her son, our
late father, was going to be a Methodist because of family tradition.

Back track to the year 1926. The family doctor came to the Blakey household and
had told my grandfather, "Tom, Lizzie's dying! See the blue on her feet and legs. My
dad, who was eight years old at the time, heard those words. His beloved Methodist
mother who lay dying, breathed a prayer, "Lord, if you would see fit, let me live to
raise my three children". My dad, the oldest was 8 yrs. old, the middle child, a son,
was 5 and the baby, a girl, was 2 1/2 yrs. old.

Grandma breathed the prayer and lasped into a coma from the typhoid fever that
threatened to take her life. She awoke the next afternoon, her fever had broke and
she was hungry, asking for food. God had heard this young Methodist mother and her
eight yr. old son's prayer.

Fast forward six years when an old white haired preacher came to their small town,
preaching on the street corner and started a revival behind the line of stores on main
street. He was preaching a message they had never heard before and Grandma, who
had read her Bible as a good Methodist, went home to search the scriptures to prove
that preacher wrong. And if she could have, she would have, because she had the
tenacity to do so. But she found in the scriptures what her Methodist pastor had never
addressed. Long story short, she and our father who by now was 14 yrs., were both
baptized in Jesus Name for the remission of their sins and received the Holy Ghost,
evidenced by speaking in tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Grandma's family at first thought she had lost her mind, but in the years that followed,
many of them also received this glorious experience. It has been received by the 5th
generation. ready to go into the 6th when we become great grandparents. None on the
way as only one grandson is married (4 yrs.) But Grandma lived to see our oldest grand-
son (24 yrs.) born. Fifth generation from the time the good doctor said she was dying.

Many of our family have received this glorious experience and received Power to be-
come sons and daughters of the Almighty! There were many friends and neighbors who
did not choose to believe the message of Pentecost back then. It was their choice. We
each have a choice to believe or not believe.

Through the years it seems that the ones who could tell you how awful this thing
others had received was, were the ones who had not received it. That reminds me
of those who can tell you all about children when they've never had any. Or that can
tell you about those things they have only heard about. whether it be positive or
negative. Hey, it's the living, brothers and sisters. It's the living. If we haven't lived
it why don't we wait until we have, so we will know what we are talking about.

When we are born again, we are a baby. Just as we have to grow in the natural,
we have to grow in the spiritual. And you have to be "nurtured and trained" and
learn to feed your own self and learn many things before you are able to teach
others. Paul taught that men should first be able to take care of their own house
before they could take care of the things of God.

How wants a president who has just graduated from college with no experience.
Who wants a doctor to do surgery on you who has just completed med school.
And who wants to place their soul into the hands of a man who has just graduated
from Bible School. We need more schools of Knee-logy and godly training
up in the way one should go.

In the Bible Paul was teaching the younger to look to the elder. Those who had
some experience and knowledge from the years. Especially those of the faithful,
The household of faith.

Some words from a senior sister who has been down the road of life a few miles.

Blessings,

Falla39

Re: Barna states that 1/3 of US is Pent./Charis.
 

Well said, as usual. Great story!!! :D