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Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron1710 (Post 582871)

Let's be very clear about your answer, though there are a number of problems I want to focus on the same question as before.

Are sins forgiven when one repents?

Yes. Sins are forgiven and one is justified at repentance. This is why many receive the Holy Ghost before water baptism.

However, if one refuses to be water baptized in Jesus name they are in rebellion...and their sin will be upon them.

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Rutledge (Post 582885)

I was not in the discussion yesterday.

Tell me how one is born again. And obviously you are the one avoiding the scripture. Got scripture? We usually base our beliefs on scripture verses.

Acts 2:38 is a good one.

Again I do't interpret the entire Bible by Acts 2:38, but Acts 2:38 by the Bible.

Being Born again has nothing whatsoever to do with baptism and speaking in tongues. All one has to do is honestly read the entire passage in context without inserting words to see this.

Now back to the question that you cannot answer because it torpedos your entire theology.

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 582887)

If my sins are forgiven, that is no sin remains, then what stands between me and God?

One can only rebel if they know a command, one cannot rebel in ignorance, but that is way beyond where we are.

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron1710 (Post 582894)

Ye must be born again. How is one born of the water and Spirit?

WE differ big time. Because being born again of the water is Baptism.

Got scripture?

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan

Maybe Bernard is not as far off from Mizpeh as we think:

Quote:

Repentance and water baptism together complete the full work of forgiveness.

At baptism God washes away sin by removing the eternal record and penalty of sin. (See Chapter 6 - Water Baptism.)
Some like to say that God forgives sin at repentance arid remits sin at water baptism. This is a fairly good description based on the English wording in the KJV. However, the original text does not support a clear-cut distinction, for these two words, forgive and remit, come from only one Greek word, aphesis. (See Chapter 6 - Water Baptism.) Theologically speaking, then, forgiveness and remission are equivalent terms, and forgiveness (or remission) comes with the combination of repentance and water baptism. We should not separate the two experiences.
For purposes of study only, perhaps we can make the following distinction: at repentance, God destroys sin's present dominion in a person's life, and He removes the barrier preventing a personal relationship with Him. At water baptism, God removes the legal record of sin and erases the penalty for that sin, namely death. God deals with the present consequences of sin at repentance and with the future consequences of sin at water baptism. Both are necessary for forgiveness. Thus Peter said, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins" (Acts 2:38). (The New International Version is more emphatic: "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven.")

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...al/New-Ch5.htm

Most 3 steppers I've encountered ... even here say Forgiveness happens at repentance .... while remission happens at water baptism.

I believe Elder Epley would agree this is the common notion among 3 step theology

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Rutledge (Post 582898)

Ye must be born again. How is one born of the water and Spirit?

WE differ big time. Because being born again of the water is Baptism.

Got scripture?

Court is adjourned. I have the opportunity to have lunch with my wife today which doesn't happen often since we work 30 miles apart.

In the interim Tim R. take so time to figure out how you are going to either input sin to the forgiven or have God withhold forgiveness.

I can answer your question fully but let’s start at the beginning and first determine what happens at repentance.

See I was happy to answer your question about water and Spirit without explanation, you on the other hand will not address the question posed.

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Rutledge (Post 582860)

I did not read this last post.

John 3:3-5 means what? And how is one born again of the water and Spirit? Jesus said you cannot enter or see the kingdom of God unless your born again.

Please answer. How is one born again?

hint... Acts chapter two, and verse thirty eight.

Nowhere does the Bible say one must be born AGAIN of water and spirit. I believe that Jesus, in bringing up the water issue, was answering the question of going back to the womb to be born again when Jesus told him he 'must be born again.' Jesus answered him, saying that a man must be born of water AND spirit--water being the first birth, and spirit being 'born again'.

That's my take on it anyway. I feel that baptism is a spiritual issue, not a water one. We are baptised into the spirit of God, otherwise we are just getting wet. It has spiritual symbolisms.

As for the answer to your question? I agree.

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Rutledge (Post 582898)

Ye must be born again. How is one born of the water and Spirit?

WE differ big time. Because being born again of the water is Baptism.

Got scripture?

Really. Jesus never said water is baptism ... Nor does the author of this Gospel. In most cases, John relates water to the Spirit. (John 4, 7, 11)

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 582911)

Maybe Bernard is not as far off from Mizpeh as we think:

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...al/New-Ch5.htm

Most 3 steppers I've encountered ... even here say Forgiveness happens at repentance .... while remission happens at water baptism.

I believe Elder Epley would agree this is the common notion among 3 step theology

So, if sins are forgiven at repentance, but not remitted until baptism, then God really doesn't forgive at repentance, the way I see it. To forgive, but to leave them there as a mark against you, is not true forgiveness.

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne (Post 582914)

Nowhere does the Bible say one must be born AGAIN of water and spirit. I believe that Jesus, in bringing up the water issue, was answering the question of going back to the womb to be born again when Jesus told him he 'must be born again.' Jesus answered him, saying that a man must be born of water AND spirit--water being the first birth, and spirit being 'born again'.

That's my take on it anyway. I feel that baptism is a spiritual issue, not a water one. We are baptised into the spirit of God, otherwise we are just getting wet. It has spiritual symbolisms.

As for the answer to your question? I agree.

Nowhere.