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-   -   The Altar Call: Does the means justify the end? (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=30805)

Maximilian 07-14-2010 05:13 PM
Re: The Altar Call: Does the means justify the end
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsMcD (Post 940183)
We have only visited twice, so I couldn't say what they do on a regular basis. I was just making a point that I liked how the pastor made speaking in tongues easy instead of all the screaming in someone's face kinda thing.
I agree, sounds like a positive experience for you.

So, did he coach them at all? Did people around them pray in tongues? Did he pray in tongues?

Maximilian 07-14-2010 05:27 PM
Re: The Altar Call: Does the means justify the end
 
I'm not a fan of the Sinner's Prayer myself. Seems rather dangerous to give assurance to those who don't believe, or it places salvation on the prayer they repeat than Jesus. In reality, if it’s in His will to do so, God quickens an individual (regeneration) and gives them the ability to repent and believe (saving faith) totally independent of that person’s ability to “get the words right” (or for that matter, to say any words out loud or privately at all).

It seems wrong to put direct pressure on the will. The will should always be approached primarily through the mind, the intellect, and then through the affections. The action of the will should be determined by those influences. In the end it may produce a condition in which what has determined the response of the man who ‘comes forward’ is not so much the truth itself as, perhaps, the personality of the evangelist, or some vague general fear, or some other kind of influence....

MrsMcD 07-14-2010 05:48 PM
Re: The Altar Call: Does the means justify the end
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximilian (Post 940187)
I agree, sounds like a positive experience for you.

So, did he coach them at all? Did people around them pray in tongues? Did he pray in tongues?
He told them it was going to sound weird and gibberish but not to worry about what they sounded like. No, the people around them were not praying in tongues. The pastor was speaking in tongues some from the pulpit.

I was impressed because all I have seen is a bunch of people surround someone screaming in both ears; some speaking in tongues, etc.

I was raised UPC in a pastor's home.

MrsMcD 07-14-2010 05:55 PM
Re: The Altar Call: Does the means justify the end
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximilian (Post 940192)
I'm not a fan of the Sinner's Prayer myself. Seems rather dangerous to give assurance to those who don't believe, or it places salvation on the prayer they repeat than Jesus. In reality, if it’s in His will to do so, God quickens an individual (regeneration) and gives them the ability to repent and believe (saving faith) totally independent of that person’s ability to “get the words right” (or for that matter, to say any words out loud or privately at all).

It seems wrong to put direct pressure on the will. The will should always be approached primarily through the mind, the intellect, and then through the affections. The action of the will should be determined by those influences. In the end it may produce a condition in which what has determined the response of the man who ‘comes forward’ is not so much the truth itself as, perhaps, the personality of the evangelist, or some vague general fear, or some other kind of influence....
The church I mentioned is the only Baptist church I have ever visited so I don't have much experience with Baptist but I had always heard that all you have to do is repeat the sinners prayer and shake a pastor's hand. No such thing has ever taken place in this church. There is no repeating after me kinda stuff. I like that this church focuses on repentance. When altar is called, it's about getting your life right with God, repenting of your sins, and making changes in your life. I like this because I think sometimes we focus so much on speaking in tongues that other things go lacking.

I don't know. I just like a lot things God has shown me in the last five years. I have tried to get out of my little box thinking.

MrsMcD 07-14-2010 05:57 PM
Re: The Altar Call: Does the means justify the end
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximilian (Post 940186)
They don't believe in Spirit baptism? Really?

Finding fewer and fewer churches that deny Spirit Baptism, so I'm a little surprised. But if they are a predominant Baptist congregation, that would make sense. They are likely cessationists.

I'm not sure believing happens at a "come forward" pitch anyway, or that it is THE place that it should happen. I think baptism is the more appropriate venue for one to publicly make their decision for Christ public.

Inviting people to pray and talking with them is a wonderful thing though.
It's a big church and there are a lot of tongue talkers in the church but as far as speaking in tongues, the pastor has said why does he need something, Jesus didn't need.

jfrog 07-14-2010 06:03 PM
Re: The Altar Call: Does the means justify the end
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximilian (Post 939965)
StuffApostolicsLike posted a new humorous topic on the altar call which took a tangent point into scare tactics being used at the altar appeal. One poster said this:

****If emotionalism works to get some people to lower their defenses and have honest conversations with God in the altar/pew/car/wherever, then I suppose it isn't in my place or anyone else's to criticize it too heavily---that is, until it becomes institutionalized as the only means by which one can have an experience and, further, that that experience, and not the overall orientation toward God, is sought after as an ends. Then there is a problem.*****

This sums up perfectly how I feel.

Whatever works. Compel them. Scare them. Love them. Woo them. Shame them. Guilt them. Whatever it takes. Hell is real. Jesus is God. He is worthy of our utter and complete surrender. Period. Jesus knows how to twist our arms and speak our language. Its His specialty to (seemingly) hurt and skeer us into obedience. :) Ask Jonah, David, Peter and Paul.


Interesting discussion thus far.
http://stuffapostolicslike.blogspot.....html#comments
One thing to consider is that alter calls using scare tactics may be similiar to building a house upon the sand ;)

Praxeas 07-14-2010 06:53 PM
Re: The Altar Call: Does the means justify the end
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximilian (Post 939965)
StuffApostolicsLike posted a new humorous topic on the altar call which took a tangent point into scare tactics being used at the altar appeal. One poster said this:

****If emotionalism works to get some people to lower their defenses and have honest conversations with God in the altar/pew/car/wherever, then I suppose it isn't in my place or anyone else's to criticize it too heavily---that is, until it becomes institutionalized as the only means by which one can have an experience and, further, that that experience, and not the overall orientation toward God, is sought after as an ends. Then there is a problem.*****

This sums up perfectly how I feel.

Whatever works. Compel them. Scare them. Love them. Woo them. Shame them. Guilt them. Whatever it takes. Hell is real. Jesus is God. He is worthy of our utter and complete surrender. Period. Jesus knows how to twist our arms and speak our language. Its His specialty to (seemingly) hurt and skeer us into obedience. :) Ask Jonah, David, Peter and Paul.


Interesting discussion thus far.
http://stuffapostolicslike.blogspot.....html#comments
The quote didn't say whatever works....it said what it did about emotionalism.

seekerman 07-14-2010 07:45 PM
Re: The Altar Call: Does the means justify the end
 
Altar calls are nothing more than religious traditions of men. As is true so many times, folks don't look to the Teacher for examples of 'altar calls'.....

Mat 9:9 And as Jesus passed forth from thence, he saw a man, named Matthew, sitting at the receipt of custom: and he saith unto him, Follow me. And he arose, and followed him.

No, can't be that simple can it? I've found that tradions of men usually outweigh the teachings of the Teacher.

tv1a 07-14-2010 09:06 PM
Re: The Altar Call: Does the means justify the end
 
From my studies, the origins of altar calls are about 150 years old. Around the turn of the 20th century evangelist used the altar calls to count how many "salvations" occured.

It appears in the Book of Acts, the method was preach and preach and preach until something asked or something supernatural happened. Acts 2, men asked Peter and the others what they needed to do, Peter stopped preaching after an outpouring of the Spirit at Cornelius's house. Paul preached on Mars Hill until someone said, I want to know more.

Just a thought. I'm not sold on the altar call method completely.

Hoovie 07-14-2010 09:59 PM
Re: The Altar Call: Does the means justify the end
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsMcD (Post 940181)
I see what you are saying. We also attend a Baptist church sometime. It's the church that makes the Christian movies. "Facing the Giants" "FireProof" and a new one coming out "Courageous" and they do altar call by asking people to come down front to repent and give their life to God. Of course, they don't believe in the Holy Ghost but they believe people need to come down front to make a commitment to Christ. I wish they believed in Speaking in Tongues but I respect the commitment that people make by going down front.
:ursofunny:ursofunny:ursofunny:ursofunny

It's ok sister, this is a common misconception of those who are raised Pentecostal. :)


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