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-   -   What is the Gospel? (Chester & Vandersteit) (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=32566)

Maximilian 12-02-2010 03:55 PM
Re: What is the Gospel? (Chester & Vandersteit)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On (Post 996670)
Well, I'm sure there are others more capable of answering you than I am and I'm surprised you haven't had more involved on this interesting thread.

I think open discussion is imperative. It needs to be a give and take, IMO. If you have a group that it too large, then you need to divide that up to make room. People want and need to speak and ask questions. Just filtering a speaker is not going to do the trick. That doesn't mean that I don't think there are times that we need to sit down and listen. And I believe that the five-fold ministry is an integral part of discipleship too.

If people are progressing in a fruitful way in their personal life and are reaching out to others, that is when you know your discipling is working, IMO.

How do we know if we are disciples? Isn't that interesting how a new convert will come in and dash all of your hopes of feeling you have arrived? LOL! They have a way of keeping you humble and knowing that you DO NOT know everything. I can be in a leadership position fully aware that I have much more to learn. That makes me a disciple.
You said a lot of good stuff here but since I'm in a hurry, I only have a sec to comment on the bolded.

It seems, at least this part, indicates you feel discipleship is a transference of knowledge?

Pressing-On 12-02-2010 03:57 PM
Re: What is the Gospel? (Chester & Vandersteit)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximilian (Post 996673)
You said a lot of good stuff here but since I'm in a hurry, I only have a sec to comment on the bolded.

It seems, at least this part, indicates you feel discipleship is a transference of knowledge?
Yes, for the most part, remember what you posted?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximilian (Post 996181)
"Mathetes, when used in the context of following Jesus suggests that the learning is expressed in outward behaviour. The learning is not merely intellectual, yet begins with the intellect and then is demonstrated in a person’s life. .
I totally agree with this! :thumbsup

Maximilian 12-02-2010 04:07 PM
Re: What is the Gospel? (Chester & Vandersteit)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On (Post 996674)
Yes, for the most part, remember what you posted?



I totally agree with this! :thumbsup
At the risk of arguing with myself then :) ....

There's something to be said for the role of the Spirit in Discipleship, helping in that process of people shape their heart until it is fully conformed to the Gospel and the Cross.

Intellectual information seems to miss it. Jesus, the Great Rabbi, rarely just disseminated info. Even with his own disciples. He used parables... which maybe was his way of whetting the appetites of the heart to discover, pursue and become curious about the ways of the Kingdom. He could have easily just answered all their questions and gave them lectures. Instead, he asked them to follow him, walk with him, he shared life with them, broke bread with them, wept and prayed, rejoiced and celebrated with them, he used real life opportunities to show the Kingdom -- whether they missed it or were staring at it. His discipleship seemed less about intellect and more about community.

Just my thoughts off the top of my head.... pondering the subject today.

Maximilian 12-02-2010 04:10 PM
Re: What is the Gospel? (Chester & Vandersteit)
 
Maybe our thread title should be Discipleship? I figured the lack of responses were because it was a video link. Few of us watch those things when posted (unless they are 10-second clips). I don't blame anyone. So to get discussion on this, it's best to bullet-point thoughts almost.

Pressing-On 12-02-2010 04:14 PM
Re: What is the Gospel? (Chester & Vandersteit)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximilian (Post 996679)
At the risk of arguing with myself then :) ....

There's something to be said for the role of the Spirit in Discipleship, helping in that process of people shape their heart until it is fully conformed to the Gospel and the Cross.

Intellectual information seems to miss it. Jesus, the Great Rabbi, rarely just disseminated info. Even with his own disciples. He used parables... which maybe was his way of whetting the appetites of the heart to discover, pursue and become curious about the ways of the Kingdom. He could have easily just answered all their questions and gave them lectures. Instead, he asked them to follow him, walk with him, he shared life with them, broke bread with them, wept and prayed, rejoiced and celebrated with them, he used real life opportunities to show the Kingdom -- whether they missed it or were staring at it. His discipleship seemed less about intellect and more about community.

Just my thoughts off the top of my head.... pondering the subject today.
Good thoughts! I agree that the Spirit has a role in discipleship. After all, it wouldn't be called the "Spirit of Truth". And it probably picks up where intellectual information can seem to miss it.

So, there you go, we are an "apprentice" with Christ Jesus. :thumbsup LOL!

You know what I think about when I think of "apprentice"? That story about Johnny Tremain. LOL! He was an apprentice in a silvershop and dreamed of having his own shop one day. Someone taught him, but he knew he would have to, someday, go out on his own and use that teaching.

Pressing-On 12-02-2010 04:17 PM
Re: What is the Gospel? (Chester & Vandersteit)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximilian (Post 996681)
Maybe our thread title should be Discipleship? I figured the lack of responses were because it was a video link. Few of us watch those things when posted (unless they are 10-second clips). I don't blame anyone. So to get discussion on this, it's best to bullet-point thoughts almost.
Contact Admin. They will change the title for you.

Maximilian 12-02-2010 04:23 PM
Re: What is the Gospel? (Chester & Vandersteit)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On (Post 996686)
Good thoughts! I agree that the Spirit has a role in discipleship. After all, it wouldn't be called the "Spirit of Truth". And it probably picks up where intellectual information can seem to miss it.

So, there you go, we are an "apprentice" with Christ Jesus. :thumbsup LOL!

You know what I think about when I think of "apprentice"? That story about Johnny Tremain. LOL! He was an apprentice in a silvershop and dreamed of having his own shop one day. Someone taught him, but he knew he would have to, someday, go out on his own and use that teaching.
What do you think of Jesus' model for discipleship? With regard to transferring knowledge?

Definitely believe being a disciple means being an apprentice of Jesus. When we are "making disciples" (Mt 28:19) we essentially have apprentice-type relationships. But instead of a tutorial on the Kingdom, we have a great task of helping, with the guidance of the Spirit, to turn people's hearts toward the Gospel. I believe discipleship begins with unbelievers... at least in the sense of the fact they are curious, then told to "come and see"... it's a process and continues to be a process. The goal of disciple making is that they make disciples too. Not a task for clergy, elders, etc.. a mission of the entire church.

Pressing-On 12-02-2010 04:31 PM
Re: What is the Gospel? (Chester & Vandersteit)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximilian (Post 996690)
What do you think of Jesus' model for discipleship? With regard to transferring knowledge?
Trying to make them think? That's a good teacher. :thumbsup

Quote:
Definitely believe being a disciple means being an apprentice of Jesus. When we are "making disciples" (Mt 28:19) we essentially have apprentice-type relationships. But instead of a tutorial on the Kingdom, we have a great task of helping, with the guidance of the Spirit, to turn people's hearts toward the Gospel. I believe discipleship begins with unbelievers... at least in the sense of the fact they are curious, then told to "come and see"... it's a process and continues to be a process. The goal of disciple making is that they make disciples too. Not a task for clergy, elders, etc.. a mission of the entire church.
Can't say much else than this! Good post! I agree, it is the mission of the entire church. If we don't trust others in our midst to disciple, then we need to look at ourselves as teachers and see how we have failed.

Of course, that doesn't mean we won't have some who want to turn the ship in their direction, i.e., Diotrephes, who wanted to have the preeminence. (3 John 1:9)

There are going to be some people like that in our midst. His preeminence example would also be a discipleship teaching/learning moment for others.

Maximilian 12-02-2010 04:33 PM
Re: What is the Gospel? (Chester & Vandersteit)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On (Post 996692)
Trying to make them think? That's a good teacher. :thumbsup



Can't say much else than this! Good post! I agree, it is the mission of the entire church. If we don't trust others in our midst to disciple, then we need to look at ourselves as teachers and see how we have failed.

Of course, that doesn't mean we won't have some who want to turn the ship in their direction, i.e., Diotrephes, who wanted to have the preeminence. (3 John 1:9)

There are going to be some people like that in our midst. His preeminence example would also be a discipleship teaching/learning moment for others.
This is where the role of the elders helps congregations... the elders and Mt 18 principle. There are ways a healthy community can prevent false teaching from happening. Staying in community and mutually submitted is one of those. That said, things can still happen and go wrong, and we trust in the Spirit to help us through what are sometimes very difficult issues.

Enjoying the discussion...

Pressing-On 12-02-2010 04:38 PM
Re: What is the Gospel? (Chester & Vandersteit)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximilian (Post 996693)
This is where the role of the elders helps congregations... the elders and Mt 18 principle. There are ways a healthy community can prevent false teaching from happening. Staying in community and mutually submitted is one of those. That said, things can still happen and go wrong, and we trust in the Spirit to help us through what are sometimes very difficult issues.

Enjoying the discussion...
I agree!!! :thumbsup


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