Re: It's Your Fault People Are Homosexual
 

I think you have to take scripture in context, and also look at multiple scriptures for answers, later in Romans it says that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God Ro 3:23, but we can all be freely forgiven and justified. In Romans 1 Paul is building the case that we are ALL sinners.

Re: It's Your Fault People Are Homosexual
 

First, God will not give up on you. You can walk away from God. You can deny God. You can blaspheme God. But God will never give up on you. He will never walk away. He will never discard you.

Second, let's read through this scripture.

It begins "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against ALL ungodliness and unrighteousness of men ..."

"Because that, knowing God, they glorified Him not as God ... [they] changed the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things."

"Wherefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts unto uncleanness ..."

I don't believe verse 24 applies to all, but only those who refuse to acknowledge God, who have lifted themselves above God and who do not regard God as the incorruptible God of salvation, but have turned to idolatry, worshipping or putting their faith and salvation in corruptible things.

You understand that God will never force anyone to worship Him. He's a jealous God, but He will not force anyone against their will. This is why the verse is written, "God gave them up." It's not because God doesn't love them. It's not because He's finished with them and they have no hope of salvation. Instead, it is them who have rejected Him. And being the loving God He is, He will not force them against their will.

I believe one must actively reject God for God to give them up to "the lusts of their hearts." And btw, "the lusts of their hearts" is more than sexual sins, IMO.

So to answer your question: "How are some people supposed to not be hopeless when reading this scripture?" As long as you are repentant and keep trying to live holy before God, He will never give you up.

Re: It's Your Fault People Are Homosexual
 

Romans also goes on to say we are More Than Conquerors

Romans 8

28And we know that in all things God works for the
good of those who love him, who have been called
according to his purpose. 29For those God foreknew he
also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his
Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
30And those he predestined, he also called; those
he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also
glorified.
31What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God
is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare
his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not
also, along with him, graciously give us all things?
33Who will bring any charge against those whom God
has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34Who is he that
condemns? Christ Jesus, who died—more than that,
who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is
also interceding for us. 35Who shall separate us from
the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution
or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36As it
is written:
“For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”
37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors
through him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that
neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither
the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither
height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation,
will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in
Christ Jesus our Lord.

Re: It's Your Fault People Are Homosexual
 

Do you really think that is what he is doing? I will testify that not once, never, ever, ever have I heard a preacher preach a sermon or a teacher teach a lesson where Romans 1 is referenced with your logic used.

Not saying you are wrong, but saying that people do not usually use the verses you have mentioned in Romans 1 for the purpose you have stated.

Re: It's Your Fault People Are Homosexual
 

Let's look at what is actually stated: God gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts (desires) of their own hearts to dishonour their own bodies between themselves (v. 24); also that God gave them up to vile (atimia, dishonorable or shameful) affections (pathoi, feelings that move the mind and will) to work that which is unseemly (technically the female genitalia, used in the wider sense of nakedness or that which should not be seen, literally and etymologically that which is not appropriate, "un-schematic", lacking the proper scheme of things); and also that God gave them over to a reprobate (rejected, not approved, as metals or coinage that does not pass a proof-test) mind (intellect, a way of thinking and judging, what would be called a paradigm nowadays) to do inconvenient things (things that aren't fitting or proper).

Also, WHO is spoken of here? Those who know the truth of God but apostasize into idolatry - v. 21, 22, 23, 25, and 28.

So, the message is that people who knew better got stupid and became idolaters, and as a result God allowed them to go full retard into practicing every imaginable evil, especially sexual perversion but also every other kind of sin (v. 29-32). And not only to practice such things, but to be pleased with those who practice such things (v. 32).

Verse 32 says they know the judgment of God (that pesky OT commands, statutes, and judgments again) of capital punishment against such crimes, yet unlike in Romans 7 where the hapless sinner has conviction for sin, the Romans 1 reprobates like it, love it, and want some more of it, and have no conscience or conviction left. They do not resist, they have been given up by God to the control of their own desires, their choices are dictated entirely by the flesh and they don't even miss the twinges of guilt or shame that have disappeared from their consciousness.

And, unless the grace of God intervenes by the power of the Spirit anointed Gospel they won't ever feel conviction, much less repent, much less find any deliverance.

That such CAN be saved out of their mess is clear from 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 and Ephesians 4:17-32, which teaches that the Gentiles were "past feeling" and given themselves over to practice licentiousness and uncleanness "with greediness", yet some had been saved and become Christians. Therefore, there is no "hopeless case" except the one who stubbornly rejects the wooing of the Spirit through the Word. As long as they reject the Gospel they cannot be saved.

When God abandons efforts to save someone they themselves will never care or be concerned about it. So as long as someone can at least find themselves in Romans 7, there is certainly hope. The publican, pleading for the mercy of God, found it. It's those who aren't looking for mercy, who don't think they need it, those are the ones who can't get it, as long as they remain stubborn.

On a final note, it should be pointed out that the Bible doesn't classify people by whatever lusts they are tempted with, but by what choices they make and the actions they take. Romans 1 does not speak about the person tempted with various things but who nevertheless denies the flesh and seeks rescue from God. It is speaking of those who don't care, and aren't concerned about the judgment of God, and who are gonna do what they want anyway.

Re: It's Your Fault People Are Homosexual
 

What if when Paul wrote this, the reasons for homosexuality were that God gave people up to their lusts but now there may be genetic reasons like estrogens in the environment? Food for thought.

Re: It's Your Fault People Are Homosexual
 

It appears there is a pattern in 1:18-32 -- a tumble downhill once a person rejects God.

They reject God and refuse to accept His salvation.

He gives them up to their lusts.

They exchange the truth of God for a lie (more rejection of God) and begin practicing idolatry.

"For this cause" God gives them up (again?) to vile passions

And continuing ... "even after they refused to have God in their knowledge" (again, more rejection of God) "God gave them up to a reprobate mind."

There is a way to see hope in these verses: all of the "God gave them up" are preceded by people actively rejecting God. As long as you've got a fight left in you; as long as you don't reject God, He will never give up on you.

Re: It's Your Fault People Are Homosexual
 

Estrogens and pseudoestrogens (leaching out from plastic, for example) certainly have a role to play in effeminizing people, but really there is no sin that can be blamed on genetics, biology, or natural causes in the environment.

People make choices. There are no "born homosexuals" anymore than there are "born adulterers" or "born fornicators", except insofar as everyone is born with a drive for self-seeking and satisfaction, which will given time manifest as sin. It shows up in some people one way, in others another way.

The grace of God is able to meet all our needs, unless we try to blame anyone or anything but ourselves for our sins.

Re: It's Your Fault People Are Homosexual
 

Yes, I agree that people make choices. I was more referring to the biology of feeling gay or having to fight the gay impulse.

Re: It's Your Fault People Are Homosexual
 

Does the, "God gave them up" in Romans 1 speak of a permanent, unchanging, eternal disposal of an individual who has persisted in their sins?

Never mind, Esaias has hit on this above.