I have no doubt he wrote it, and it really doesn't matter because I am sure any "press releases" need to go out with his approval because HIS name is on the sign.

It is a much different church and environment now that Junior Haymon took over. I would agree with you when the elder was pastor.

They have never been UPC, although their relationship with the UPC has softened just a bit with the advent of Junior taking the pastorate.

While he is still conservative, he is not of the ilk to call the whole of the UPC a bunch of liberal compromisers.

If you read this statement and Gordon Poe's name was attached to it, would it still be a statement you would back up?

It is not the author that is neing criticied it is the content.

I have'nt read this whole thread, but, could you state your concern, who you are and some possible changes in an e-mail to them? they may just be open to rewording the notice...:santathumb

Dan,

He is NOT UPCI.

No, the Haymons are not UPC

And the elder Haymon is not know for his careful, indepth contemplation before acting...they should have taken a deep breath before they published this silly assessment of the tragic events in their area...

Look, I've been good over the past few weeks so I'm not going to sling any mud but, GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!! The latter is just as arrogant as the former. I know these people well. This very forum has come under his attack because of the truth that was being spread here. I'm sure he appreciates your loyalty but I don't trust the man and I will leave it at that.

They got out in 1968 Elder Haymon was one of the original members of the AMF he was the missionary director for several years however he has been independent since sometime in the 80's. Carp thank you for your rational reponse to this foollishness.

Were you AMF guys too liberal for him? LOL!!!!:jolly

EXACTLY what I thought., leave it to others to take a negative spin on it.
*sigh*

Truth???

:heeheehee


Truth????

:killinme:slaphappy:toofunny:killinme:slaphappy

Welcome to AFF

I find it very non surprising that dudes that don't even know that Bro. Haymon isn't UPC are ready to offer him to the wolves.

Sigh, anytime something controversial hits the waves, it acts like a lightening rod to ignoramuses and malcontents. Prime and Godly example of leadership, fellows. You guys are prime candidates for the first row to see Jesus writing in the sand.

:bored

She was not "un-churched" before meeting the folks from CAC, she was "un-baptized in Jesus' name."

And to correct Carp's statement, she didn't go on a fast "after" the incident, she had just completed the fast the morning of the incident. Minor point.

And the website does seem like a bit of grand standing to me. It reminds me of the year long debate at Wikipedia.org on the subject of NBA star David Robinson being a "famous member of the UPC." Some UPC guys wanted that to stand even though Robinson only briefly attended a former UPC church.

And as to whether or not the pastor in question is "boastful," I don't know. But you can ask his limo chauffeur.

The website speaks for itself, leave it that.

You will love this. He left the AMF because he elected advertize on television.
He did not get much if any results but that was his reason.

Jekyll....why don't you just call me by name in your post? First, I do not know anything about Colorado politics, other than I have a relative who pastors there. Haymon's obvious close relationship with the UPC (having UPCers in his pulpit and conferences regularly) made me think he was. I guess I could have looked in the manual to see if he was a member in good standing...but anyway, that is not the issue.

Listen, whether this was written by Haymon, Paula White, Kenneth Haney, Gordon Poe, Lee Stoneking, Sam Emory, Nate Wilson, Juanita Bynum, Steve Munsey, Larry Booker, Paul Mooney, Paul Morton, Anthony Mangun, etc.....I would say the same thing...not about the person, but about the article itself. Your opinion of the article and my opinion are at opposite ends, obviously. That is okay. But the implication that I am an ignoramus and malcontent and the first to throw a stone...you know nothing about me.

I think it is awesome that she has been baptized in Jesus, name.

:D

This is a moronic parting shot to demonstrate...what?

This makes you a liar my friend.

You know it is difficult to say. I am not a fan of Gordon Poe, everyone knows that.

That being said, I am not sure ANY self respecting minister would make an attempt to exploit this situation to their own benefit.

This shows that you don't even the guy, Carp. You want pictures? I had lunch with him at an inexpensive cafeteria near CAC. He and his wife arrived in a chauffeured limo, pulled up right to the front door and were escorted from the limo to the line inside of Furr's on South Monaco Street with all off the pomp and circumstance of a state dinner at the White House.

Heh. I guess we are both in agreement here! There are some important clues here as to why our churches don't grow.

Maybe It's Cause...
 

Possibly due to the fact that there's too many chaffeured driven limos in the church. I heard from a relative of his that he and his family live in a 3/4 of a million house.

I haven't priced his house, but more power to him. He was dealt with unfairly years and years ago before there even was a CO Dist. by some within "the mothership" and I thought he handled that with a lot of class. I'm just a little confused by those who preach modesty and then flaunt and parade their wealth.

Holiness people are to be modest. And then the "Hey! me too!" thing in the aftermath of the horrible tragedy that our community has suffered... like I said, there are reasons our churches are not growing.

If you want to take ownership of the direction of my post, go ahead. There were others that made posts in the same uninformed vein.

This cop-out of attacking the article not the author is quite rich. Use this same logic in Luke pointing out that Judas committed suicide. Your position would question the motivation of including such a gruesome event in the Bible without taking account of the author of the book. The written word is a reflection of the man as much if not more than his spoken word.

Also, your response makes it look like you made a knee-jerk reaction to information you don't check out. This has happened before and I hope you don't make a regular practice of posting like this. Just a little FYI.

Whether Haymon is UPC or not is not the point or issue of this thread.

And, as consistent as I have been on this thread...I don't care who wrote the article, my opinion is the same. If it was my own pastor who wrote the article/statement, I would be disagreeing with the wording as well. That is my opinion...an opinion that is obviously different from yours. I guess we take an agree to disagree on this issue.

And what exactly is my opinion of this article?? At this point, the vehicle of discussion is misfiring on two cylinders so whatever I say about the article will be for naught. You already think you have me pegged, which is ANOTHER uneducated guess. Quit while you're not so far behind the 8 ball.

Just a little humor.........
 

[QUOTE=pelathais;32644.................

I had lunch with him at an inexpensive cafeteria near CAC. [U]He and his wife arrived in a chauffeured limo, pulled up right to the front door and were escorted from the limo[/U] to the line inside of Furr's on South Monaco Street with all off the pomp and circumstance of a state dinner at the White House.



The limo caught my attention...........

A man in my hometown purchased a limo, (just because he could) and he has the limo driver on staff.

The owner does not ride around in the limo, he actually offers "rides" to folks.

So.....you may be out shopping at the local WalMart, and a long white limo pulls up, and out comes an elderly man in bib overalls.

Usually the elderly make use of this "gift", such as rides to the pharmacy, or to the doc's office.




Sorry off of the "Haymon " topic , but the limo did it for me. :santathumb

Jekyll! You are the master!
:bow:bow:bow:bow

I think you're wrong; but you do it so well. Congrats!

No, right on topic, IMHO. And you do add some fodder to the trough. But this was one of those "You had to be there" moments.

Again, the web site under discussion does say so much about why the Apostolic movement isn't growing. I believe that our message could be a great benefit to a lot of people (not just eternal benefit, either) and that there are millions of people who would readily accept the Apostle's doctrine. However, we've got so much baggage that we're carrying around that all anybody sees when they look at us is the baggage.

The tenor and direction of your comment was that Brother Haymon regularly travels in a chaufferred limo. This is untrue. It is also untrue that he has "a driver".

Did you investigate as to who owned the car? Who the driver was?

Could it be that a man in his church owns or works for a service and decided to give a day of service to his pastor and the pastor's wife?

What is the implication of your comment? That it is wrong for a man to ride in a limo? What relation does it have to this thread? What is your indictment?

...and some believe all this will be helped if TV is brought into the mix.

:killinme

Carp again thanks. I know Elder Haymon not well he was going out of the AMF when I was going in. We have differences but I think he is a gentleman.

It seems that Bro Epley knows a lot about Elder Haymon and he only spoke good of him. I attended CAC in the late 70's when I lived in Denver. They were AMF at the time. I still talk with some people who are in the church. Bro Haymon did leave the AMF when he decided to advertise on TV rather than cause controversy. The home he lives is a dream home, but was bought during the 70's and I'm sure the value has appreciated greatly over the past 25 years. He is much loved by the church congregation and they seem to dote on him. God has really blessed him. I read his book "From my Veranda".. Very interesting and really gives an insight to Elder Haymon. I have never heard anything but "good" about him. Their services are streamed live on Sundays & Wednesdays, and Bro. Betts from NC has been in revival there for a couple of months.

Just read the website. If you don't see it the way I do, then you and I probably look at many things differently. If you feel a need to defend something that I (and many others!) perceive to be as gratuitous as that, then you've probably got the same problem and will never see past the beam that is in your eye.

I didn't wish to make a long running debate out of the subject of this thread. That's why I ended my first post with a "leave it at that." The longer you defend this in such a shrill manner, the more attention you will draw to the problem and a greater number will be embarrassed by that web site.

Our churches are not growing. The reason is the atmosphere and the culture that is entrenched in our churches. The first step to addressing that is being able to speak openly about the issue. The next step will be when we have the courage to change. Then we will see the revival that God has in store for us.

Or more probably, then our great-grandchildren will see the revival that we could have had.

Elder Haymon's book was very good. He is a gentleman and again I have not been around him our circle of fellowship has been different but he has maintained a good name.

Then you've missed meeting one of the nicest and warmest people I've ever met. As I said in an earlier post, I saw him go through what I felt to be an injustice many years ago and he handled the whole thing with class.

Give me a break, first you allow me lattitude to think differently then because I challenge you, you say I have a beam in my eye...and that simply we can accept your word as the last word? I would say you sound like someone else around here but I am not about tossing about insults, and I believe YOU are the one who sees things differently and beyond the pale of reason.

The fact of the matter is that you cannot stand behind your comments with any integrity or intelect. You jumped to a conclusion, several conclusions actually, and none of them were even close to the mark.

I admitted the comments on the website were written in such a manner that could be considered boastful, then I added context to the discussion by saying the person who either wrote it or endorsed it IS a man of God and of the highest integrity. You said what...that Brother Haymon is NOT these things?

What on earth do the remainder of your comments have to do with this discussion?

Brother Epley, I completely agree. While I don't think I have ever been close enough to shake Elder Haymon's hand in the 20 years I have known these folks, I DO know Brother Haymon Jr.

I will also say that I do not agree with him on many different issues and topics, and I am sure he would disagree with me adamantly as well. This does not take away from the fact that I give him honor and respect as being a tremendous pastor, a man of integrity, and a man with his heart in the right place.

I will give you the last word on this, but first: you have a quote above that is incorrectly ascribed to Jekyll - just a clarification. I'm sure Jekyll would prefer to speak for himself and not have my words put into his mouth.

Also, I never once EVER questioned D.H.'s integrity nor did I even mention that, other than the statement I made about him showing a lot of class during what must have been a tough time.

People are complex. You can't just pin a label on someone and say that because he's "friendly and warm" (like I said of D.H.) and that because he "showed a lot of class" on a particular occassion (like I also said) that he is forever free from being criticized. I said the website seemed presumptuous and gratuitous. It reminded me of an experience that I had with the same guy. Another poster mentioned a similar experience.

You, and others offfered compliments. I say "Amen!" to those compliments. I don't hate the guy because of a couple of funny little gaffs. He's a good man. You may have the last word and I will leave it at that. I wish you well.