Apostolic Friends Forum - New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentance

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SDG	09-05-2008 08:34 AM

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Rutledge (Post 582851)

When it is coupled with Baptism, in the Name of the One that died for you.

1st Peter 3:21 and John 3:3-5. What is your take on thiese scriptures?

Then your answer is no.

HeavenlyOne

09-05-2008 08:34 AM

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Rutledge (Post 582898)

Ye must be born again. How is one born of the water and Spirit?

WE differ big time. Because being born again of the water is Baptism.

Got scripture?

You don't have scripture for the above. Being born of water is not a birth we can do again. If you think Jesus was saying so, then you also believe there are two baptisms, which also goes against scripture that says there is one.

I believe in being baptised, but I don't believe I was born again at baptism. In fact, I've never heard of that belief until coming here.

Born again at baptism? Hmmm...

Michael Phelps

09-05-2008 08:35 AM

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne (Post 582920)

Those would be 2-steppers!

HeavenlyOne

09-05-2008 08:40 AM

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps (Post 582917)

So, if sins are forgiven at repentance, but not remitted until baptism, then God really doesn't forgive at repentance, the way I see it. To forgive, but to leave them there as a mark against you, is not true forgiveness.

Strong's says that remission is the pardon of sins as if they were never committed. It's different than forgiveness, but I have to admit, I don't fully understand.

If baptism is the pardon, why aren't we baptized more often? God continues to forgive when we ask, and He forgives, but are they automatically remitted after we are baptized the first time?

SDG	09-05-2008 08:43 AM

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne (Post 582924)

Strong's says that remission is the pardon of sins as if they were never committed. It's different than forgiveness, but I have to admit, I don't fully understand.

If baptism is the pardon, why aren't we baptized more often? God continues to forgive when we ask, and He forgives, but are they automatically remitted after we are baptized the first time?

The writers of the Scriptures dictate the meaning ... not translators ...

they used one word for both forgivenes and remission ... aphesis.

There is no separation. You will not see this in the NIV, ESV, NASB or even in the Spanish RVA

It is for this reason that Bernard, and maybe even, Mizpeh ... have to include repentance + baptism = aphesis/forgiveness/remission ...

to remain true to the Word.

Cindy

09-05-2008 08:45 AM

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan

The Holy Ghost does not inhabit an unclean heart (full of sin), therefore it stands to reason that sins are forgiven at repentance.
Baptism does not wash away our sins. Only the blood of Jesus Christ can do that.
But we must have the blood, water, and Spirit applied to live an overcoming life in this world.

SDG	09-05-2008 08:46 AM

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan

Quote:

Originally Posted by cneasttx (Post 582930)

The Holy Ghost does not inhabit an unclean heart (full of sin), therefore it stands to reason that sins are forgiven at repentance.
Baptism does not wash away our sins. Only the blood of Jesus Christ can do that.
But we must have the blood, water, and Spirit applied to live an overcoming life in this world.

Ah ... yes .... the Cornelius dilemma ... nor what is quickened to life still be dead. (Acts 10, Romans 8)

mizpeh

09-05-2008 08:48 AM

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhoni (Post 582836)

Daniel,

Don't be so hard on "M". Truth is many of our Apostolic friends do not know the scriptures or how to defend their belief system.

*hugs*
Rhoni

Rhoni, don't assume I don't know what I'm talking about or was indoctrinated into this belief. I searched it out after I was taught it and I believe it is what the Bible teaches. Dan can be as hard as he wants, I'm not afraid to be labeled. But thank you for your compassionate words.

SDG	09-05-2008 08:49 AM

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh (Post 582935)

Rhoni, don't assume I don't know what I'm talking about or was indoctrinated into this belief. I searched it out after I was taught it and I believe it is what the Bible teaches. Dan can be as hard as he wants, I'm not afraid to be labeled. But thank you for your compassionate words.

I think you don't know what you're talking about on this one either. Would love to hear your exegesis on this extreme view.

mizpeh

09-05-2008 08:50 AM

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 582933)

Ah ... yes .... the Cornelius dilemma ... nor what is quickened to life still be dead. (Acts 10, Romans 8)

Ah, yes, the knife cuts both ways.

According to this theory, the Holy Ghost cannot dwell in an unclean vessel, therefore every time someone sins the HG has to leave, then we repent, and the HG comes back in and so on and so forth. :snapout

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