Re: Prove The Bible is the Word of God
 

If God wants 5% of the sick not to be healed, then He probably shouldn't have inspired James to say that they will all be healed. And again, maybe you can look those parents in the eye, who obviously did have tremendous faith, and tell them "God wanted your daughter to die".

Does anyone on this board have faith? Then maybe some prayers of faith can clear out 95% of the children's ward at some hospitals. And let's see 95% of the amputees in your towns can grow new legs and arms.

And talk about excuses and scapegoats! Goodness! When the Bible says something that isn't true, I don't have to look for excuses, anymore. I don't say "I wish I had a full understanding". I will never have to counsel a grieving mother and say something as "comforting" as "God's ways are higher than our ways" or "sorry, she was in the 5%" or "if you had prayed with faith, she would have had a 95% chance of recovering."

Back to your first comment:

That's true. And I think you know why: it's because deep inside, most know that it won't work, but they pray anyway. They are obligated to pray, and to speak as if they have faith, and to act as if they have faith, and the act as if they expect a miracle. It's expected. It's the way things are done. And when someone recovers, they are obligated to say it was God, even when they know deep inside that they probably would have recovered anyway (sometimes with help of medicine).

You say we don't understand God's word fully. But yes, we do understand some of it! Some of it is written very plainly. When we discover that that something isn't true, why would we have a duty to say this is one of those scriptures we can't understand? Or to add to it, to make it true?

Re: Prove The Bible is the Word of God
 

I always tell people this:

Jesus gave us the fairest method in which to know whether or not the Bible is true. Knowing that the Bible contains His teachings, I refer people to this scripture:

John 7:16-17 KJV Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. (17) If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

This means if someone will TRY WHAT HE SAID, they will experience something that will prove to them the Word of God is true. If they never TRY IT themselves, they can never know.

CS Lewis said it is like looking into a dark, unlit shack that has a crack in the roof allowing a beam of light to enter it. You can stand outside and try to describe that beam of light and never get the actual understanding as obtained by someone who is inside the shack and beneath the light beam.

It is impossible to say the bible is incorrect when the person claiming that accusation has never even TRIED IT.

We can only PROVE it by TRYING IT.

Romans 12:2 KJV And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Re: Prove The Bible is the Word of God
 

mfblume thats what Timmy is saying people try it all the time (ie praying )and nothing happens,that love one dies after they have prayed with THE strongest faith for them to live or the sick one is not healed...

Re: Prove The Bible is the Word of God
 

What people fail to realize is that the Word contains qualifications for healing, for example.

Matthew 21:21 KJV Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.

A grain of doubt will hinder the healing.

God gave me a real revelation of this one day while needing a miracle. I was in my first pastorate, and since the church was so small in congregation I had to come and live on unemployment insurance and seek work. The town was a small mining town that mined asbestos, and was shutting down due to asbestos bans.

I could get no work.

Shortly after I arrived a relative of mine, Lloyd Bustard, who is also a minister called me and asked how things were going. I said I was in a small church and not much people, and had to live on unemployment insurance from my previous jobs. It would soon run out, but I knew I was in the will of God and was loving it!

Months passed. My unemployment insurance expired, and I got my last check on a Friday. The congregation was still unable to support me, and I thought about my bills, my little children and my wife, and food for our table. I took to prayer.

I knew God wanted me there, but also knew others came in the same manner on small incomes from outside, and left when it expired. I knew God could do anything. So I prayed for a miracle.

While praying, God spoke to me the words I quoted above. If I would DOUBT NOTHING, I would see my miracle that I was praying for. Anyone can pray, but who will successfully DOUBT NOTHING after they pray?

Mark 11:23 KJV For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

We often ruin our prayers by DOUBTING just a little!

I had to doubt NOTHING.

So I fought unbelief and doubt that entire weekend. I was so stirred up by this, that I preached that Sunday night about FAITH FOR MIRACLES. I told them our situation, and church people looked at me knowing I could leave the church as other pastors did in the past. But I stood there and told them, "I do not know who God is going to do it, but I am declaring here tonight that I will soon be informing you from this very pulpit of how He did, because God showed me that if I doubt nothing, I will have my miracle. And I fight and defeated doubt all weekend since I prayed Friday."

You could have heard a pin drop, and would have seen eyes like saucers, wide open, in the congregation that night!

We had service and later that night I went to bed as usual.

The telephone rang at 4:40am that next morning. I answered it and it was my relative who called months before and asked how things were going.

After I said hello, the first thing he told me was to sit up and say, "Thank-you, Jesus."

I did, and asked what was going on.

Meanwhile he knew nothing about what transpired that weekend and on that very church night.

He told me he had preached that last night in in Bro Wilson's church in California on the other side of the country from where I was located in Newfoundland, Canada. 4.5 hour time difference! Hence, he called at midnight his time when it was 4:30am my time. He said he preached in the morning and during the afternoon before the evening service, God spoke to him to give $1.000.00 to Bro Wilson's radio ministry. He made up his mind to do it, and went into the evening service. During his sermon, he referred to me being in a small two in a small church in Newfoundland, Canada. He said he spoke to me several months earlier and asked how I was. He related how I told him I was on unemployment insurance and knew it would run out soon, but I was happy as a lark since I knew I was in the will of God.

Then he told me he said these words during his sermon, "Speaking of the will of God, Pastor Wilson, God spoke to me to give $1,000.00 dollars to your radio ministry, and I'm going to do it."

He said Acts chapter 4 happened all over again. People started volunteering offerings and expensive watches and even second vehicles they owned but did not really need, in comparison to what Bro Wilson could get out of them to fund his radio ministry.

Then he said, "Mike, someone stood up and said he had $100.00 for you, my nephew, in Newfoundland. Then a second man stood up and said he had $300.00 for you. Then a third man stood up and said he would match your unemployment check dollar-for-dollar every week!!!!"

By that time I was bawling like a baby and said, "Lloyd, you do not know what happened this weekend. I got my last unemployment check Friday, and God spoke to me saying that if I did not doubt anything, but would fight away all doubts, I could pray for a miracle and He would give it. I fought doubt all weekend and was so stirred up about it that I preached about it. I told the people that, although I did not know how God would do it at this moment, they would hear me tell them over this very pulpit how God provided me with money miraculously. I had that much faith!"

He told me he never heard of that before in his life, and said I should thank God for the next hour!

I received $8,000.00 from that brother in Bro Wilson's church over the months.

A few months later a pastor had me come and preach in Perth Andover, New Brunswick, ...Bro Harry Lewis... after having seen our struggle and getting behind in light bills. He asked the congregation to help us renovate an apartment in our little church basement area, to save rent costs. They took up $4,142.00 for me that night. Bro Lewis said they had missionaries who came and never got that much of an offering in one night!

I received a letter from Kenneth Mendenhall in the mail out of the blue $1,000.00 in it.

Altogether over $13,000.00 from a prayer one Friday night, when I did not doubt anything.

So, when I say we must TRY what the bible says, I mean all of what the bible says about something. Healing? Pray, but DOUBT NOTHING afterwards. God never said WHEN he would heal, but he did say HE WOULD.

I suspect many people doubt somewhat and ruin their prayers.

I know that I know what I know, from such many experiences in life, and this was but one. Everyone needs their own encounters like that and experience this for themselves. I know God's word is true! I tried it.

God bless!

Re: Prove The Bible is the Word of God
 

Timmy I think many people believe they have faith, but their faith is in faith and not in God.

It appears you have experience a disappointing situation that God did not move as you wanted. I think we have all experienced that at some point. We also have to understand everyone has to die as some point. Most of us would prefer it to be after a long fruitful life.

I will give you one example of what a friend said God told him when He took this man's wife. He asked my friend would it not be better for the Lord to have taken her now while she was saved vs letting her live but have something in her life happen that would cause her to loose her soul?

God does know what is best. It is not a cliche. It is truth. The Word of God is true. I believe it! I don't understand everything, but I believe it.

I can also tell you from experience sometimes it is about timing. God waits to heal for varies reasons, but does eventually heal. But not every case is the same.

I know of some that can't seem to live for God unless they are in prison. God's upmost desire if for each of us to be saved.

I agree with Bro. Blume, I believe many folks have some doubt and not all faith when praying for situations.

Re: Prove The Bible is the Word of God
 

Then it was "best" for my brother to die. Thanks for doing what was "best", "God".

Re: Prove The Bible is the Word of God
 

Timmy I lost a brother also. And it hurt a lot, as we were only one year apart. Knowing what I know now, I do think God knew what was best. His wife was leading him down a path that would have destroyed him.

It doesn't make it any easier. But I know with all that is in me, God knows best. We don't always see it but we have to learn to trust Him that He can do no wrong.

Re: Prove The Bible is the Word of God
 

This is getting off the subject at hand but anyways. God is sovereign, he rules over every affair of man. Yet he is a gentleman he gives the power of choice. Sin is and was a choice that brings/brought death spiritually and eventually physically. Only faith in God and his word brings life and peace. God wants to heal our position with him spiritually so that the physical death will have no power or effect. He also wants to heal our condition here on earth this however takes a process of refining in most cases but a miracle in others.

Act 14:8 And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked:
Act 14:9 The same heard Paul speak: who steadfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed,

How many times did Jesus pass by the gate of the Temple while this lame man was sick and didn't heal him. It was saved for the confirmation of the apostles and the church for the glory of God. Not when we want it but when God does.

Act 3:2 And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple;
Act 3:6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.

What about John the baptist or James who lost their heads for their faith. God did not heal them from those fates.

Act 12:1 Now about that time Herod the king stretched forth his hands to vex certain of the church.
Act 12:2 And he killed James the brother of John with the sword.
Act 12:3 And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of unleavened bread.)

Mat 11:2 Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples,
Mat 11:3 And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?

Jesus instructed Johns disciples that they should tell John of all the works that were being done. Meanwhile John was in prison praying a prayer of faith. God is God regardless of our circumstances. We then find out John is killed. It didn't go as John thought but the plan of God was still going forward.

Mat 14:1 At that time Herod the tetrarch heard of the fame of Jesus,
Mat 14:2 And said unto his servants, This is John the Baptist; he is risen from the dead; and therefore mighty works do show forth themselves in him.
Mat 14:3 For Herod had laid hold on John, and bound him, and put him in prison for Herodias' sake, his brother Philip's wife.
Mat 14:6 But when Herod's birthday was kept, the daughter of Herodias danced before them, and pleased Herod.
Mat 14:7 Whereupon he promised with an oath to give her whatsoever she would ask.
Mat 14:8 And she, being before instructed of her mother, said, Give me here John Baptist's head in a charger.
Mat 14:9 And the king was sorry: nevertheless for the oath's sake, and them which sat with him at meat, he commanded it to be given her.
Mat 14:10 And he sent, and beheaded John in the prison.
Mat 14:11 And his head was brought in a charger, and given to the damsel: and she brought it to her mother.

Lastly, When dealing with the sick the Word says that the prayer of faith shall save the sick. That is Gods ultimate goal. Faith in him will put you at peace that whether we live or die we are the Lords, this is our position with him. Then the Lord will raise them up, deal with their condition, for what good does it do if he heals us and we are still headed straight for hell. Sickness many times will lead to self examination and making sure we are in right standing with God, for it is not always his will to heal us physically. It is his will to heal us spiritually for if we have committed any sins they shall be forgiven us. Sickness is always a by product from the result of sin. We are all destined once to die then comes the judgment. It is the second death that we have to make sure has no power over us.

Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Be blessed
Pastor DT Salaz

Re: Prove The Bible is the Word of God
 

I think whether the Bible is actually true is very relevant to the subject. If it's not true, it's not God's word. (IMO.) (And yes, I know, most everyone here believes it absolutely is true, and can always find a way to make everything it says true. ;))

But technically, you're right. The subject is proving that it is God's word. If it's not possible to do that (as some here, maybe most, would agree), I can think of two possible reasons for this:

1. God didn't want it to be possible to prove.

2. It isn't His word.

If you can think of another reason, let's hear it. Otherwise, I guess you guys would vote #1. ;)

Re: Prove The Bible is the Word of God
 

Usually theology starts out with the premise of proving the existence of God. This is many times for the Atheist or the Agnostic for if there is no God then why would we believe in a Word of God. If we cannot prove one portion is the Wrod of God we then might as well discount the whole.

This is called systematic theology. Once the overwhelming evidence for God is Proven then we go to the infallibility of the Word of God.

When we turn to this method of proving the veracity of Gods word various forms are used to prove this.

Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

God is a reasonable God and we anso can use reason to verify our faith. Our faith is founded on substance and evidence.

Number one reason we believe it is is because it claims to be the Word of God.

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Jesus expressed that the Word of God was scriptures and gave veracity that the Old Testament was the Word of God.

Joh 5:39 Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Many don't want to believe that it is no matter how much evidence is provided because then they will have to agree that there is a God and if he made the rules then he can bring judgment for disobedience.

More later

Pastor DT Salaz