Apostolic Friends Forum - 25 Year Anniversary

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Re: 25 Year Anniversary

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On (Post 1450054)

I have met several very nice and polite atheists. They don't wish to get into other's personal business. That's a Bible directive whether they realize that or not.

I've met nice and polite atheists as well. Nice and polite doesn't mean you have the gifts of the spirit.

Re: 25 Year Anniversary

Quote:

Originally Posted by n david (Post 1450056)

I've met nice and polite atheists as well. Nice and polite doesn't mean you have the gifts of the spirit.

I've even met nice and polite people on AF......well nevermind.

Re: 25 Year Anniversary

Quote:

Originally Posted by allstate1 (Post 1450059)

I've even met nice and polite people on AF......well nevermind.

:toofunny

Re: 25 Year Anniversary

Quote:

Originally Posted by n david (Post 1450037)

Sorry, but it's impossible for an atheist to exemplify the Fruit of the Spirit in their lives. Not the real fruit, anyways.

Read my post again I said "fruit" not "fruit of the Spirit". My dog shows love, but yet he doesn't have the Holy Ghost. My point is that atheists can live a disciplined and principled life where they show good works. That doesn't mean they have the Holy Ghost.

Re: 25 Year Anniversary

Quote:

Originally Posted by n david (Post 1450056)

I've met nice and polite atheists as well. Nice and polite doesn't mean you have the gifts of the spirit.

gifts??? I thought we are talking about fruit.

gifts- gk charisma- spiritual endowment

fruit- gk karpos - means fruit

Re: 25 Year Anniversary

Quote:

Originally Posted by houston (Post 1449855)

I think she is of the camp that believes that you receive the Spirit at faith, and receive the baptism/tongues as a 2nd blessing. She can clarify.

Absolutely! But we do preach that the evidence of the Holy Ghost baptism IS speaking with tongues. It's the only consistent sign in the NT.

Re: 25 Year Anniversary

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On (Post 1449838)

Interesting as that is also my testimony.

Now, I know this all sounds like an argument on this forum, but I can assure you that I am not arguing with you here. I have simply been curious for you to explain your view.

You say that you can't be 1/3 or 2/3 saved, which I guess would be an awkward stance to take as well. However, the two scriptures I cited - say that these two acts save you - Mark 16:16 (which you presented at the outset) and Romans 10:10. Both say these two acts save you - repentance and baptism.

So, the question - if you do one and not the other, are you or can you be saved?

The Apostle Paul is contrasting the "law" with the "spirit" in Romans 8. You mentioned about using scare tactics. You might say that about about Paul when he tells his audience that if they do not have the Spirit of Christ, they are not a part of the Kingdom of God. His audience of those who may not have the Spirit, are finding out they must have it, and those that already are filled are finding out that they must continue in the faith or they will be lost.

This is Acts 2:38 - all of it - what some have decided to coin as 3-steps. I believe it is unfortunate terminology. Having a measure of the Spirit (which you espouse) is never mentioned in the Bible, although having a measure of faith is.

I have no doubt if you believe your former prostitute and atheist will receive the Holy Ghost, they will.

But, I must ask, If in 5 or 10 years, you find someone who is not filled, will you teach Paul's message in Romans 8:9? Will you explain what Paul explained, that you MUST have the Spirit of Christ or you are none of His?

I believe they HAVE the Spirit of Christ. They just have not been baptized (immersed) in the Holy Spirit yet. There is a difference.

Re: 25 Year Anniversary

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherri (Post 1450231)

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I believe they HAVE the Spirit of Christ. They just have not been baptized (immersed) in the Holy Spirit yet. There is a difference.

So....there's two Spirits?

Re: 25 Year Anniversary

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherri (Post 1450231)

[/B]

I believe they HAVE the Spirit of Christ. They just have not been baptized (immersed) in the Holy Spirit yet. There is a difference.

Okay, thanks for the explanation. Another question. We were discussing Mark 16:16 and Romans 10:10.

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." Mark 16:16

"For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." Romans 10:10

When do you believe a person has the spirit - at baptism or at repentance or just upon believing?

Re: 25 Year Anniversary

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On (Post 1450294)

I believe a person leaves the Kingdom of Satan and enters the Kingdom of the Lord at repentance and confession. The word "repentance" just means a change of mind or change of direction. They were walking one way and now they are walking the other. At that point, I believe that Jesus (spirit of the Lord) lives in him/her - I have seen radical life change at this stage that could only come about by the Spirit of the Lord. There is a subsequent baptism of the Holy Spirit that is evidenced by speaking in tongues.
If you think that a true conversion can happen without the Spirit of the Lord living in them, that's where we would disagree. What do you think happens to a person when they repent?
I do believe that after repentance, a truly converted person will obey and follow in baptism, but I don't think the baptism is what saves them. It's just a part of the process they need to follow. I think they will also go on to the baptism of the Holy Spirit, but again I think they were saved when they left Satan's kingdom.