If i'm OLD then so are you.

:killinme :killinme :killinme

Schism wouldn't really be any bigger than it already is. People associate with who they want to associate with and don't with who they don't. It's already in place, the membership is all that would drop.

Wow. I was born in 1981! Your only one year older than I am.

you appear to have already "left" the UPC...without physically doing so....

Might as well leave anyway, your problems with them are only going to fester and cause a problem elsewhere, even if the resolution fails.

But I would like to know how you explain the tv vs. internet debate?

You have total, free access to television shows on the internet, and even on cell phones - but we do not preach against them.

How do those anti TV, justify use of the internet for church websites, but not television?

Way younger was an overstatement! LOL!

I'm a healthy, youthful looking 38, thankyouberymuch!!!!


:roseglasses

Sorry, I didn´t answer and this is fast as company just arrived from north Brazil. However I did not want to make it look like I was ignoring you.

I really am from the generation where few people ever had a television and we never felt it the best thing...but in all my long posts on any given subject you will never find me sending anyone to hell. I always contend the heart is the real thing that needs to be changed.

It has been our choice not to have one just like a lot of things are governed by choice. For us it was the right thing to do. I have many friends that have televisions it is between them and what they feel are their values.

I agree the internet is far more evil than a television but I happen to use it and need it. I really don´t see a need for a TV. Our people have been taught to spend prime time with their families and we teach it best for the mother to stay home if possible. We are family people in this world of so much divorce.

Our children are all grown and several have come to us and thanked us for not having one in the house when they were growing up. We are blessed that our children love the Lord.

I have never been one to make long lists of rules I just live what I believe and believe what I live and besides that I am a woman...so my opinions are just my personal opinions.

It seems 95% of our church people have followed the same principle...Judge not...live what you believe...

I know some tough pulpit people but the message they themselves cannot live...I had rather let all know I am just human and when they see a weakness or a fault they will pray for me not call me a hypocrite.

I do not encourage no one to do anything that they cannot live. I always tell my kids and church people when they look at me in the coffin I want them to be able to say, I was a christian.
To be a christian is to be Christ-like.
I hope we can all be like Him even when we differ.

I don´t care for people who think they are above others in some spiritual mindset that they have God´s only revelation. We are all just clay earthen vessels with most time lots of scars and cracks and broken...

It is the jewel within us that must shine...we are protecting that treasure in earthen vessels...

Let's not forget that one can get TV programming on the internet and on the cell phone too!

Mizpeh, thanks for the comments. I have already made my mind up that if the RES passes then I will leave. We have a circle of fellowship set up already so we won't be out there as a lone ranger. There will be life after the UPC. Besides that, the UPC is not the church. It is possible to be apart of the body of Christ without being in the UPC.

I would at least hope that most people would see a difference between going to school online and watching TV. I can't think of anybody that has a TV that "just" watches educational videos. You may be the first but I just don't believe this is the case with everybody. There are discussions on here about R Rated movies, PG-13 movies, TV shows called wifeswap, and people that have south park avatars. How can you expect people to stop at just educational? We preach against TV period. As far as YouTube goes, I don't watch it. I don't watch preaching videos either. I try to stay consistant in what I believe. Others may not but I happen to agree with Larry Booker's view of the internet as a library. I pull from it only what I want and NOTHING more. I know there is evil at my fingertips but I have set up a safety net to keep me from those things. It's obvious that the TV watchers have no intention at just watching educational given some of the movie topics found on AFF.

Didn't want this post to go unnoticed.

I was just listening to a tape of Brother Booker today and oh how I love and respect Brother Pixler...a prince...(I can say that I am old enough to be his mother and she is my friend)

Most kids who are 16 and younger see you as old, yes. Sorry to bust your bubble! LOL!

Yer just a little puker too!

You're all a bunch of whipper snappers.

I describe it like this:

I'm in the UPC but not of the UPC

I have a special love in my heart for God´s people. I weep when I see the church so divided. It seems we could be kinder about some things...especially to each other. It would be impossible for us to all agree but we can love and respect and if we go seperate ways we can do it in peace...sometimes the people we wish to kill are the very ones that help us in bad times...

I have TV in my home and yes, I watch a lot of educational programming, as well as informational stuff. I also watch Survivor, now that it's back on.....LOL!

:killinme :killinme:killinme :killinme
That's HILARIOUS!

I have never been in...but have precious friends that belong. Cards and cliques seem to divide many times instead of uniting.

Pray for me dear ones...Off to cook supper...

then you should leave the UPC...


it's not healthy for you to just continue to fester and find fault.

it's ok to say you dont see eye to eye any longer...

and I dont sense much chance in reconciliation or healing...

so before it makes you bitter, maybe you should consider aligning yourself with a group that better matches your vision.

My Pastor is very good friends with the Bookers. Bro Booker is on the Elder board for our church. He's also very close to Jonathan Alvear, i'm assuming that you are related to him? My Pastor's sister goes to his church.

I have every intention of doing this when it's clear that there is no changing course for the UPC. Until then i'll stay, but that may change after Fri.

If its a stance you want...

How about the stance against video? When video first came out, the UPC took a stance against. That later changed. Since you are still here, apparently that change didn't bother you.

Furthermore, it is actually video capability that caused many to see the various ministry opportunities and/or enhancements opening up due to video.

It is also video capability and the allowance of such that caused many pastors, including one of my former pastors, to become concerned that things were beginning to slide down a slippery slope and there would be no stopping it.

And what about some of these "other" stances?

Like "worldly amusements" for example. The UPC took a stance against such long long ago. In writing, it has not changed. In reality, it has changed.

Same goes for professional sports which included not only sports on the adult level but organized sports in grade school - school teams. First little league was deemed as OK. Some even said it was good for kids to be involved and that they obtained valuable life experiences from it. Then it moved on to Jr. High and then to High School. Whats next? College? The NFL, NBA, etc.?

While I understand your personal issue in regards to TV and thats your choice, I have to ask, why pick on that one issue? What about these other things? Are you only UltraCon in regards to TV?

He's too young to remember a time when videos didn't exist......LOL!

Don't forget that golfing is ok.

And such a petty issue too, considering the problems with the internet that have permeated even the ministry today.

Yes you can be in the church and not be UPC...my question then is, can't you be in the church and still BE UPC? Why leave? No resolution requires you to have a TV, watch TV or advertise ON TV. Since the UPC is NOT the church, then how can a resolution passing affect you or your local congregation? Aren't we stronger as a whole than we are divided into still smaller groups? There are so many souls to win all over the world and so many missions to support financially. Do you think you will win more souls after leaving?

Do you think there are other great things about the UPC other than your disapproval of allowing TV for advertisements and reaching the lost? Why throw the baby out with the bath water over that?

BTW the argument about TV and educational stuff is about as good a one saying that it's unlikely OPs only use the internet for education and not for other things....like watching worldly videos or listening to music or looking at pictures they should not. In fact you can do everything you can do with a TV now on the Internet and it will just grow even more inclusive.

What we need is a church whose members are wise and discerning about those things. Educate this church HOW to resist temptation and things that hinder their walk rather than dictate contradictory decrees that just makes us look dumb....TV evil, Internet not. We are in the world every day, but not of the world. At any time in our day of life we can succumb to the world and the things of the world without a TV in our living rooms.

The problem with most people and TV is not the TV itself but that they never truly learned to walk hand in hand with Jesus and allowed to be led themselves by the word and His Spirit

You say "How can you expect people to just stop at education"....do they just stop at education on the internet? Can you just stop at education? What about print and radio? Do we just stop at education on radio or magazines?

Excellent points.

Speaking of the Youth Congress what is this all about?

Apostolic Idol

Once again, the Pentecostal Music Association offered 15 talented people/groups the opportunity to win $1,000 and win a recording contract (thanks to Zion Recording and Daywind Records). The winners were:

Group: Exodus (1st); Fallen Chains (2nd); Total Praise (3rd)

Male: Mark Crowder; Bryce Allard; Ryan Johns

Female: Don’t shoot us, but the winner in this category garnered so much applause we couldn’t hear the name! (Someone send it to us!); Ashley Webster; Kristen Sharp

I found this on ninety and nine http://www.ninetyandnine.com/Archive...0813/cover.htm

The UPC DID indeed have a stance against Video and changed over it. They allowed the use of Video. BTW what difference does it make? I never understood that. This is an organization of churches that believe in Acts 2:38 and Oneness and living a Holy Life...why do you have to join a church that forces on everyone an issue like no TV? Why does the organization HAVE to force that on ALL members in order to be a part of the organization at all? Can't you decide for yourself not to watch TV or use it to reach out? Or can't you decide for yourself to preach against TV to your local congregation without an organization telling you to?

If you leave what does that do? How does staying or leaving affect you personally or your congregation because an organization decides to make advertisement on TV NOT an organizational sin? The resolution does NOT force you to accept TV nor your congregation nor anyone elses...Isn't it then really about control? If an organization is no longer forcing everyone else to be against TV (even though in their concious they are NOT really against TV) then I will take my toys and go?

We can have an official resolution till hell freezes over and it will NOT make everyone believe like you do...or is that it? Is the plan that as long as we try to force them to believe like us the they will want to leave and the org will belong to us hardliners? Why can't we all just unify over Faith, being against Sin, Acts 2:38 and Oneness and spend more time reaching the lost than fighting each other?

Thanks :roseglasses

[QUOTE=HeavenlyOne;250277]
Don't forget that golfing is ok.
[QUOTE]

I've never hit a golfball. In fact i've never held a golf club.

Why does it matter to you rather I leave or not. I have no hard feelings against the UPC. I got the Holy Ghost in a UPC church my most memorable times with God have been in a UPC church. I simply disagree with where I think the org is going and for that reason I will align myself with other men and churches of the same principles that I believe and that we preach. I don't think that the RES will affect me at all. Our members don't watch TV so they'll never see the ads. I don't think we'll be any weaker becuse of us leaving. We pray a lot of people through so I don't think that's going to change. We support missions through the IAm system and not through Faith Promise so we'll continue to do that. I ask, why then should I stay and support the org?

Ya'll are such younguns!!!! LOL!!!

If it bothers you why even attempt to discuss it in a PUBLIC forum. This IS, after all, a public forum and your leaving or staying has become a public topic. So sue me for being opinionated and blunt, but I have made my opinion on this issue known...take it for what it is worth, if you decide to take it at all seeing as how you have said you already made up your mind :hypercoffee

My points and questions are still there. You are not addressing them. So you disagree....remember it's just an organization. It's purpose was NOT meant to force us how to think. It was there to unify us in a common theology and to reach the world.

You know the TV thing at one time was NOT part of the org? It was added, just as other issues were added or removed. Video was removed.

The direction of the ORG does not affect YOUR personal direction nor your churches. Only decrees that FORCE you to think or act a certain way, contrary to your own personal views, affect you. So I still don't see why anyone has to leave when no resolution being presented forces you to change in any way.

I can understand people who want to use TV leaving because they ARE being forced to think or act or NOT act a certain way by decree against their own opinion and judgement to NOT use TV to reach out to the lost.

That is my point....why leave if it does not affect you or your church? Why can't we ALL unify to work together to reach the lost instead of quibbling over things that don't even affect us?

WOW I FEEL SO OLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:sos

Let me get this straight....you would not submit yourself to the elected leader of our org????

:sos:sos:sos:sos

You need to leave ...you already think like an independent UC....no submission to anything.

I believe Fallen Chains is a local group here in Wisconsin.

And with a bun in the oven too!! LOL!

Jonathan is my nephew and just preached our conference in south Brazil and preached for us here in the northeast. We will visit him sometime in November the Lord willing.

I pity you! :D You poor soul, you need to get out to a golf course and give it a try! :)

Not for one minute would I submit to the leader of an org!

I'm more submissive than you think. I have a Pastor that I submit to.

BTW the leader of an org is not meant to be someone we submit to. We look to him for leadership to unify the collective group. But it takes more than a leader. It takes active participation and tolerance and sometimes even compromises from both sides. Each side has to remember the organization is an alliance, not a church to issue decrees...in fact who wants a church to issue decrees? Might as well go back to Rome for papal edicts