Apostolic Friends Forum - How old do you think the universe is?

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Re: How old do you think the universe is?

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Originally Posted by Jason B (Post 1485104)

Those verses simply dismiss your premise.

Again I say, how?

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The point of the verses is TIME. God didn't make the world look old.

That's what I am trying to say!

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He created it, by the Word of His power. He said and it was so. He commanded and it was done. Over and over God directly affirms creation ex nihilo in 6 days by divine fiat.

It was not created in six days though.

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Therefore...for someone to assert the earth "looks old" (as in millions/billions of years), is due to their own opinions, influenced by secular science, not the scripture, which is quite plain on relative age of the earth, and origins in general.

Did you think I said God made the earth to look old? My whole point was that He did not. You mixed me up with someone else.

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Often the argument is made that if the earth is in fact young (approx 6,000-10,000 years) that God is deceiving us by causing it to "look old". But really the opposite would seem true. If the earth were millions/billions of years old, would it not seem God is deceiving us by saying over and over it He created it in 6 days, by His Word, out of nothing?

And how can God be charged with deception (not by you here Mike, but thats a common talking point in this discussion), when He gives us specific information in His Word regarding His work of creation?

He didn't have to give us specifics, Gen 1:1 would have sufficiently established Him as creator, yet He choose to.

Again, you're mixing me up with someone else. My whole argument is that God DID NOT create the earth to look older than the actual date of creation.

Re: How old do you think the universe is?

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Originally Posted by mfblume (Post 1485348)

It was not created in six days though.

Exodus 20:17 says God made heavens, earth, sea, and everything therein, in six days.

The Greek word "made" is epoiesin, and is the same word in Genesis 1:1 where it says in the beginning God created (epoiesin) the heavens and the earth.

So it was made in six days according to the Bible.

Re: How old do you think the universe is?

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Originally Posted by mfblume (Post 1485347)

That's not what the idea of the old apparent earth means, though. To more correctly use your elements of analogy, we would have to say God created the trees with DNA that could aged thirty years, rather than no age in the cellular level whatsoever which I think was the case.

Whatever the true form of what carbon dating is trying to determine, a person would take those trees and find they did not have any signs of aging toward death a moment after they were created, as they would have to have if the aged look theory was correct.

There's a huge difference between something cellularly "aged" between the difference of a sapling or a full grown tree created in a moment by God.

I really can't speak to the cellular and molecular levels. I can see several angles of looking at it. I'm only considering observable appearance.

Re: How old do you think the universe is?

I thought this article was thought provoking,

Secrets from the World's Best-Preserved Nodosaur
by Brian Thomas, M.S.
https://www.icr.org/article/10011/

Re: How old do you think the universe is?

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Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 1485367)

I thought this article was thought provoking,

Secrets from the World's Best-Preserved Nodosaur
by Brian Thomas, M.S.
https://www.icr.org/article/10011/

good article!

Re: How old do you think the universe is?

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Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 1485366)

I really can't speak to the cellular and molecular levels. I can see several angles of looking at it. I'm only considering observable appearance.

The difference, though, between a mature tree in creation and the earth is that the tree grows and the earth does not. Something that grows as well as ages shows the aging through the growth. Something like a rock does not grow.

Re: How old do you think the universe is?

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Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1485353)

Exodus 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

???

Wrong reference I guess. What actual verse is your quote?

MADE and CREATE are two very different words.

Read what was "created" in Genesis 1 and what was "made".

I cannot find your verse reference to ascertain your point.

Re: How old do you think the universe is?

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Originally Posted by mfblume (Post 1485390)

But the earth does show erosion, sedimentation, carbon levels, etc. All can be used as indicators of time.

Re: How old do you think the universe is?

Here's an interesting question I've had...

In space we can spot stars going nova, galaxies colliding, stars dying, stars wobbling under the gravitational influence of a planetary body orbiting the star, etc.

But what we are observing is based on light from these objects. And many of these objects appear to be many thousands or millions of light years away. That means, the light we're observing is many thousands or millions of years old and has been traveling our way so that we can see what happened many thousands or millions of years ago.

Are these events that never happened?

Re: How old do you think the universe is?

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Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 1485397)

But the earth does show erosion, sedimentation, carbon levels, etc. All can be used as indicators of time.

But that is not growth of the earth itself. It's apples and oranges. Carbon levels are closest. But they took living creatures and carbon levels dated them thousands of years dead!