Re: Do we serve a "gotchya!" God?
 

I do not argue that tongues were not a "sign" that God had added some to the church Bro. Luke.

In Acts 10 it waas a sign to the UNbelieving Jews. They would not believe that God would or could save anyone but them. Hence God gave THEM a sign that he had indeed moved intot he lives of these uncircumcised Gentiles.


Same situation in Acts 8. vs 14 ..when the apostles heard that Samaritans ( another hated Gentile cross culture) had believed they were again astonished. they could not believe that God could save such a people.

They sent Peter and John to check out this unbelievable rumor.

Again God used this sign that those at the upper room had witnessed.

These events seem in line with Paul's teaching about tongues in 1 Corinthians 14

Paul wrote that "tongues are a sign NOT to believers but to unbelievers"

In fact in the only letters that address tongues, in the letters written to the churchs, Paul does not state or even hint that tongues were to be expected as initial evidence that someone had recieved God's spirit. Not once!!

Re: Do we serve a "gotchya!" God?
 

I've seen that happen.

Re: Do we serve a "gotchya!" God?
 

That is not what directly happened in Acts 8 though. Philip taught and all believed and where baptized. How did they know that they had not received the HS? They expected something!! The model clearly shows expectation outside of simple belief one received the HS. Which Pauls question clearly points to in Acts 19. That they should know they received it. (which is outside the Jew to Gentile line of Acts 8 and 10) Paul asks. Did you receive the HS when you believed? Not just accept by faith that they had but know by evidence. He expected a normal response of actually knowing, not blind faith. Otherwise he could not have asked the question if he simply expected them to only have by blind faith acknowledgment. Thus what does he do he asks a question and explains the issue. Then baptizes them. THEN he does not stop BUT LAYS HIS HANDS. HE was still expecting SOMETHING ELSE thus again shows he did not expect reception by blind faith. Also they where more SURPRISED that the HS had not fallen not that he did, which somehow they had to know(tongues) per sending for PEter and John.

No they sent John and Peter because they "knew" they had not received the HS because he had not FALLEN. Notive they expected action not just reception by blind faith. Again if blind faith is expected that one has initially received the HS. Then how would they know they had not. Expectation tells all! Also notice simply believed and baptized are put into the equation yet they still knew they had not.

As he does he still does.

Paul is talking about a different function that is used as a "gift" in the church not about initial evidence. The two are totaly different per my comments below.


Doesn't have to as he is dealing with other issues not issues that people had already been a witness to when they received the HS. Also initial evidence and tongues in the life of the believer are to different things. As Paul's directions would make little sense in Acts. Also tongues in Acts are initiated by God. The tongues in which Pauls talks about are of edification in which one USES a gift God has bestowed in which one initiates by stirring up the gift. The to aspects are totaly different.

Re: Do we serve a "gotchya!" God?
 

Fallen upon ..go and learn what that means.

As for your comments that Pal was not addressing tongues as HG eveidence but rather as a gift...WHERE does he clearly state that??

At this point Luke there are about 4000 posts on a thread that is called no room for one steppers that covers all these points ad nauseum.

Check it out

Peace out.

Re: Do we serve a "gotchya!" God?
 

Quite simple the whole point of much of 1 Corinthians is to the church and also about the gifts and administration of the Spirit in the local assembly. It's not about salvation or receiving the HS. His discussion is about those outsiders that come in the church and hear such and discusses the function by saints in gifts while in the assembly along with prophecy.

Re: Do we serve a "gotchya!" God?
 

You're painting with a broad brush here. It DOES happen, by a few that are over-zealous. But that doesn't give us license to "mock" and make fun of those (like my husband and myself) who really try to be conscientious (sp?) about how we pray for people. MOST ministers are, but yet we are fenced in with those that are misled.

People need to be careful when making observations about the things of God, lest they come across in a "mocking" manner. Our cynicisim (sp) comes across way louder than the observation we are making. 95% of the ministers that pray for people are sincere, I will admit those that aren't, give the "real" ones a bad name, and it bothers me to see sincere people mocked.

YES, we have seen ministers that have over done it, but don't paint us all they same way.

Bless ya.

Re: Do we serve a "gotchya!" God?
 

Every child that is born into this world, WILL give a "certain sound". If necessary, the
one attending the birth may give it a swift "whack" on the behind, but if the child is
alive, there will be a "SOUND"!! If the baby does not make a sound, friend, you have a
dead baby on your hands! It may have been stillborn, or it may have died during the
process of being born. Argue all you want to, but God gave a "sign". And the "sign" is
to the unbeliever. The "sign" convinces the unbeliever. Including the one who is be-
coming a "believer". The one being born again! We are ALL unbelievers until we receive.
Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.
Seed (Word of God) sown, conception

The "gifts" given to the believer, (as in Corinthians) is just another operation of the
same Spirit. You won't have the "gifts" until you first have the Giver!

Not to offend.

Blessings,

Falla39

Re: Do we serve a "gotchya!" God?
 

I agree that there will be a sign..... And I can think of only ONE sign that the bible specifically says we will be known by.

Re: Do we serve a "gotchya!" God?
 

Haven't you ever heard the song?

Our God is a gotcha God
He reigns from heaven above
With wisdom, power and a glove
Our God is a gotcha God

:)

Re: Do we serve a "gotchya!" God?
 

Bro. Randy,

Newborn babes do not have fruit! It takes time for a "tree" to become
fruit bearing.

Blessings!:friend

Falla39