Apostolic Friends Forum - **Herald Begins Apostolic Identity Campaign **

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Re: **Herald Begins Apostolic Identity Campaign **

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgcraig (Post 700836)

We just did it for Ed so he could see there's no difference - Apostolic - Pentecostal - you end up at the same place!!!!! :ursofunny

:ursofunny:ursofunny:ursofunny

Re: **Herald Begins Apostolic Identity Campaign **

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh (Post 700800)

I've never associated the Apostolic with the clothesline holiness standards. :foottap

Yeah, I know. I'm not pickin' a fight. I just am wondering what he means when he says "apostolic identity' and stuff like that. What does that mean? Are we left to wonder or guess or read what we want into it depending on our pov? The RCC considers themselves 'apostolic'. And so to the Methodists and the Episcopalians. So what does this person mean then?

Re: **Herald Begins Apostolic Identity Campaign **

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin (Post 700808)

Like who?

Name me a large Oneness org with that moniker, please.

Pentecostal Assemblies of the World
United Pentecostal Church

Large oneness org?
Now it has to be a 'large' organization?

Their "largeness" is not the issue... and it wasnt the issue when you first made your remarks regarding this.

You purported that we just came up with that label Apostolic recently "to show how holy we are" ... and that "Apostolic= looks".

However, for example, there are 135+ organizations of varying sizes that are members of the Apostolic World Chrirstian Fellowship. To them, apostolic= doctrine.

And they didnt call themselves "apostolic" because of external appearance. As far as external apprearance/dress standards etc... the AWCF members cover a wide spectrum.

Re: **Herald Begins Apostolic Identity Campaign **

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgcraig (Post 700826)

Didn't want Edward to go out and purchase the domain name! :ursofunny

I think Edward would buy www.StopCallingUsApostolic-friendsforum.com :D

Re: **Herald Begins Apostolic Identity Campaign **

For what it is worth, and lest anyone misunderstand, this was not some new "campaign." From my recollection, the PH does one issue per year devoted to Education.

Re: **Herald Begins Apostolic Identity Campaign **

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRFrance (Post 700843)

But we're not talking about all those other guys, we're talking about an author who published in the official organ of the UPCI. So you have to wonder what they mean by what they say.

Isn't external appearance a well developed system of doctrines that are mentioned in the AOF of the UPCI? Are we cheery picking doctrines here or is it all inclusive?

My personal experience has been that "Apostolic" includes holiness standards and the term "apostolic identity" is often code for holiness standards.

Is that what this author is saying here?

Re: **Herald Begins Apostolic Identity Campaign **

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innocuous (Post 700860)

.........
My personal experience has been that "Apostolic" includes holiness standards and the term "apostolic identity" is often code for holiness standards.

This is my experience also!

Re: Herald: Begins Apostolic Identity Campaign

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWSS1976 (Post 700724)

DA where do you get all this info from?

That is the Editorial in the January 20098 Pentecostal Herald.
The Pentecostal Herald is the official publication of the UPC.

Re: **Herald Begins Apostolic Identity Campaign **

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innocuous (Post 700860)

But we're not talking about all those other guys, we're talking about an author who published in the official organ of the UPCI. So you have to wonder what they mean by what they say.

Isn't external appearance a well developed system of doctrines that are mentioned in the AOF of the UPCI? Are we cheery picking doctrines here or is it all inclusive?

My personal experience has been that "Apostolic" includes holiness standards and the term "apostolic identity" is often code for holiness standards.

Is that what this author is saying here?

I dont have any need to wonder what he means. He speaks pretty plainly.

We dont need to try to read anything into what he says.

Lets just look at what he says. He makes repeated references to education, and teaching. Says nothing about "holiness standards". Lets just take at face value what he plainly says such as:

Quote:

As important as it is to heed Campbell’s warning and advice, it pales in comparison to the tragedy of even one generation failing to teach apostolic truth to the next generation. Someone wisely said, “Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction.” While we know that the church Jesus built will never become extinct, we must not make the mistake of thinking that the body of apostolic truth found in the New Testament “runs on auto-pilot.” Jesus built His church but He placed the responsibility of perpetuating apostolic truth squarely and firmly in the hands of His apostles and by extension to all His followers.

Anthony Braswell says, “A true ‘Christ in Eeducation’ experience places the emphasis on our Creator and His Ccreation in the educational process and combines that with a distinct Christian environment, modeling what is taught. This education can take place inat the local church, a Christian school, a home school, or a godly home.”

Steve Ryerson, in his article “Home School Discipleship,” says, “Home educators are showing that the home can be a great place to use the God-given potential of the family to train young people to follow the leading of the Spirit in bringing the gospel to this world.”

Ron Wofford says, “The Bible college experience is all about atmosphere. It is the creation of a place where understanding of God, self, fellowman, and worldview can all be accomplished. Bible college creates an environment that allows one to dig deep into the rich resources of the Word of God and to experience spiritual happenings in an atmosphere that is conducive to growth in those areas. This type of education accomplishes so much more than just a classroom experience that imparts head knowledge only. It challenges the student to get beyond the mere facts of who God is and to explore the whys, the ways, and the wonders of God.”

The youth of the apostolic movement must not lose their apostolic identity because we failed to teach them the truths that have defined God’s people since the Day of Pentecost.

To paraphrase Campbell: Our survival as an apostolic movement depends on each new crop of apostolics understanding and assimilating our commitment to the Apostles’ doctrine.

Besides, The Herald has run many articles before that deal with standards before. If standards was the topic here, they could, &would, just say it plainly. They wouldnt have any need to use "code language" and tuck it into an article like this.

Keep in mind the article is from an issue of The Herald devoted to the topic of Education, and deals with education of different levels... home schooling, Sunday School, Bible College, etc. To some, "apostolic" might include standards. But I think one really has to be force that meaning into the text here to come up with the idea that the author is talking about "holiness standards" in this article.

Re: **Herald Begins Apostolic Identity Campaign **

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRFrance (Post 700867)

I dont have any need to wonder what he means. He speaks pretty plainly.

We dont need to try to read anything into what he says.

Lets just look at what he says. He makes repeated references to education, and teaching. Says nothing about "holiness standards". Lets just take at face value what he plainly says such as:

Besides, The Herald has run many articles before that deal with standards before. If standards was the topic here, they could, &would, just say it plainly. They wouldnt have any need to use "code language" and tuck it into an article like this.

Keep in mind the article is from an issue of The Herald devoted to the topic of Education, and deals with education of different levels... home schooling, Sunday School, Bible College, etc. To some, "apostolic" might include standards. But I think one really has to be force that meaning into the text here to come up with the idea that the author is talking about "holiness standards" in this article.

On the first statement above, if I take it face value then I'm left confused because he doesn't define what is being taught in terms of what is 'apostolic'.

As for your second statement, I doubt that only 'some' would include standards as being inclusive in 'apostolic' teaching and it's not forcing anything to assume or at least wonder about what they mean.

For most holiness oriented OP's the standards are inseperable from the other distinctive doctrines. They go together in their minds just as much as cheese goes with a cheeseburger. If you don't have cheese, then you don't have a cheeseburger. In the minds of most holiness folks if you don't have standards then you aren't apostolic. "The Truth" is another code word for this.

Since holiness is a part of the AOF of the UPCI and this appears in the official organ of the UPCI and I know the context swirling around the UPCI in regards to re-affirming "holiness" that's going on currently then I can only assume that this author is including holiness standards in his view of 'apostolic teachings'.

It sounds to me like this guy is saying that we need to affirm standards teachings (in addition to other doctrines) at all levels of education. To interpret it otherwise seems like a dodge and a stretch to me.