Originally Posted by n david (Post 1327017)

We've debated this previously, and I still disagree. You say God is love because there are verses which state this. Yet you say His essence isn't holy even though there are as many which state He is holy.

I don't believe either Love or Holy is His essence, I believe they are His attributes. Love is an attribute, not His essence, just as His omnipotence, omniscience, justice and other things are attributes.

Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 1327057)

Again, saying that "God is holy" isn't the same as saying "God is holiness". Saying that God "is" something is to define His essence. Essence is defined as, "The identifying nature of a thing: the quality or nature of something that identifies it or makes it what it is". When one says that, "God is love", one is saying that "love" is the identifying nature of God; the very quality or nature of God that makes God, God.

Now? Is the God who is love "holy". Yes! He is holy in that He is separate, distinct, and unmatched in all categories. He is creator, omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent. But what makes Him "holy", in the truest sense of the word, is that He "is" love. Being the creator who is love itself, it stands to reason that He loves His creation. Therefore, anything that damages, distorts, or destroys His creation from it's original design and purpose is repugnant and detestable. Why does God "hate" sin? Why is sin so repugnant to God? Because it damages, distorts, and destroys the object of His love and affection... His creation. Therefore, His "holiness" isn't an arbitrary disliking of sin. It isn't like one finding broccoli detestable because it tastes bad to them. Nor like someone finding snot detestable because it grosses them out. God's "holiness" is rooted and grounded in the reality that He is love and sin destroys the object of His love, mankind.

For example, why do parents hate the idea of their children doing heroin? Because it destroys the very children that they love. However, God's love runs deeper than our love. For man, love is merely an attribute. For God, it is the very essence of who and what He is. Therefore there can be no overlooking sin. The sin issue has to be addressed to His satisfaction. Love is the ultimate sacrifice of self. This means that God's desire is only perfectly expressed in sacrifice. To reveal His being love itself... He sacrificed... Himself for man.

Therefore defining God as being love, as it relates to His very essence, defines His holiness on moral terms. To say that God is "holy" as it relates to His essence begs the question, "Why is God holy?" It's an incomplete concept. Thus holiness is therefore an attribute of a God who is love. Where many get twisted up is when they view divine love as being an attribute of a God who is holiness. God isn't holiness... God is love. That's what makes Him Holy.

Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 1327057)

Again, saying that "God is holy" isn't the same as saying "God is holiness". Saying that God "is" something is to define His essence. Essence is defined as, "The identifying nature of a thing: the quality or nature of something that identifies it or makes it what it is". When one says that, "God is love", one is saying that "love" is the identifying nature of God; the very quality or nature of God that makes God, God.

Now? Is the God who is love "holy"??? Yes! He is holy in that He is separate, distinct, and unmatched in all categories. He is creator, omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent. But what makes Him "holy", in the truest sense of the word, is that He "is" love. Being the creator who is love itself, it stands to reason that He loves His creation. Therefore, anything that damages, distorts, or destroys His creation from it's original design and purpose is repugnant and detestable. Why does God "hate" sin? Why is sin so repugnant to God? Because it damages, distorts, and destroys the object of His love and affection... His creation. Therefore, His "holiness" isn't an arbitrary disliking of sin. It isn't like one finding broccoli detestable because it tastes bad to them. Nor like someone finding snot detestable because it grosses them out. God's "holiness" is rooted and grounded in the reality that He is love and sin destroys the object of His love, mankind.

For example, why do parents hate the idea of their children doing heroin? Because it destroys the very children that they love. However, God's love runs deeper than our love. For man, love is merely an attribute. For God, it is the very essence of who and what He is. Therefore there can be no overlooking sin. The sin issue has to be addressed to His satisfaction. Love is the ultimate sacrifice of self. This means that God's desire is only perfectly expressed in sacrifice. To reveal His being love itself... He sacrificed... Himself for man.

Therefore defining God as being love, as it relates to His very essence, defines His holiness on moral terms. To say that God is "holy" as it relates to His essence begs the question, "Why is God holy?" It's an incomplete concept. Thus holiness is therefore an attribute of a God who is love. Where many get twisted up is when they view divine love as being an attribute of a God who is holiness. God isn't holiness... God is love. That's what makes Him Holy.

Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 1327077)

Our legalistic rules and standards define those in good standing within so many of our fellowships. This means that any imperfection must be covered up, hidden, or ignored for fear of losing fellowship. Tie in salaries and positions of power... and the need to deceive others to profess our alleged moral righteousness while hiding any sin and imperfection is raised to an all time high.

This is why spiritual immaturity abounds. No one can be real.

I remember a sermon by Jeff Arnold. In the sermon he told a story about his daughter. If memory serves me correctly, she cheated on a test in school and was caught. The teacher called her mother and told her all about it. Then her mother called Bro. Arnold and told him. He left the office and came home so he could be present when his daughter walked in the door. When she entered the house, she didn't bounce into his lap, shower him with kisses and tell him about her day as she often did... she dashed upstairs without even looking at him. He could hear her burst into tears and sobbing in her room. He walked upstairs and entered her room and asked her what was wrong. She was silent and refused to tell him at first. But then he said, "Is it about you cheating on your test?" She began sobbing all the more. Now she knew he knew about her failure to do right. Then he said, "Why didn't you come to me and tell me all about it when you came in the door?" Through her tears and sobbing she said, "Because I was afraid that you wouldn't love me any more..."

And this is why we hide our imperfections. Deep down inside... we're afraid that if anyone knew how screwed up and carnal we truly can be... the people we love... the pastors we love... the family we love... the God we love... will not love us any more.

Originally Posted by Luke (Post 1327081)

Doctrine/truth is not based upon emotion. Because God is holy when we sin we separate our self from Him.

Please answer the question why does the spelling of Holy have to a certain way for it to be His nature but love can be spelled simply love and still be His nature when the wording is exactly the same in the passages.

Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 1327087)

Luke... I'm trying to help convey the thought. Hmmm...

I'm to assume that you are holy... am I right Luke? So, I can say, "Luke is holy."

However, I cannot say, "Luke is Holiness".

Originally Posted by Luke (Post 1327090)

Where does the Bible say that God is lovingness?

Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 1327091)

The Bible not only states that God is "loving"... but it goes further and also states that "God is love".