Re: Chris reed joins the ministry elite
 

Brother? Do you consider yourself a ruler? Or a servant?

Do you belong to your church? Or does your church belong to you?

Do you charge (or take) money for your preaching?

What does this passage mean to you?

36] And he said unto them, What would ye that I should do for you?
[37] They said unto him, Grant unto us that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory.
[38] But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?
[39] And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized:
[40] But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared.
[41] And when the ten heard it, they began to be much displeased with James and John.
[42] But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them.
[43] But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister:
[44] And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all.
[45] For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

We take turns teaching and being taught. What’s the need for preachers? To announce the plan of salvation to a lost world. It’s certainly NOT for you to lead my wife. That would be an absolute perversion of scripture. And if I am a real man, I will explain (ie teach) you when you are getting out of bounds. I know plenty of preachers who believe otherwise, but I am always available to instruct them in the error of their ways. With patience and kindness and scripture. Because they have believed a false doctrine that the apostles did not teach.

Now, do you have any scripture that would say otherwise?

Re: Chris reed joins the ministry elite
 

Is that what I said? No? Then maybe this conversation isn't going in the direction it should.

Is that what I said? No? Then maybe this conversation isn't going in the direction it could.

Or would.

Shoulda, woulda, coulda, right?

Re: Chris reed joins the ministry elite
 

I'm not sure how you are going to take this, but...

Matthew 7:21-23 KJV
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. [22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? [23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

A few remarks:

1. The word "iniquity" is literally "lawlessness", it describes not those who are practicing what people generally think of as the most egregious immoral acts, but those who practice lawbreaking, ie disobedience to God's commands. As He pointed out it is failure to "do the will of My Father which is in heaven".

2. People who have lots of supernatural experiences and are used to prophesy, cast out demons, and do many "wonderful works" in the name of Jesus will still split hell wide open because they aren't doing the will of God, but instead are lawbreakers (practice lawlessness).

3. When people give examples of how they are following Jesus, and how they are expressing leadership in the church, they often point to the supernatural evidences which Jesus dismissed, rather than the evidence which He pointed to as being actual evidence.

Why is that?

Friend, being a leader does not mean being a boss over the chain gang. Ranger motto: Follow me! Rangers lead the way! etc. In other words, being a leader, in the church, should be by example. I'm not saying you don't do that, I am just wondering why you have taken this particular tact in the regatta of our discussion.

Re: Chris reed joins the ministry elite
 

I mentioned that Chris was supposed to take a church in Liberal Kansas. That's not correct. Chris preached there once. Back in 2007 or 08, when Chris still was an Apostolic Pentecostal. Looking over Chris' timeline is one really sad story.

Re: Chris reed joins the ministry elite
 

It hits close to home. I learned about Chris through Bro Blume on this website. I sent Chris a friend request on Facebook. Chris' church was in the CACI and he visited True Vine Covenant Apostolics. I learned that I knew a lot of Apostolic people that were going there. People who I've known for many years. So, I started dialoguing with them. And eventually joined True Vine.

When I messaged my Elder about Chris he was heart broken and said all we can do is pray. I said we need to warn people about the danger of false prophets and getting involved with ministries that aren't Apostolic. Chris needs to be a cautionary tale. But it's hard to understand how you can be so wrong about someone and how people can go so wrong.

Re: Chris reed joins the ministry elite
 

It happens, we want to believe in people. That they are genuine, that they have our best interests in mind. There are people who do, sweet loving people. Men, and women who are sincere and want to be a blessing to the Body Of Christ. This is where the Chris Reeds of the world come to feed. This is where they come to be ecclesiastical vampires among the sheep fold. Jesus is continually calling us away from these butchers. I'll say it again. When a man cheats on his wife, he doesn't just cheat on her. He cheats on his children. When a pastor cheats on his wife, he spits in the face of Jesus Christ. He desecrates his church family, as well as his wife and children. Never be sorry for giving your trust, your care, your Christlikeness to others. It's all on them if they betray that love that was freely given to them. Chris is the criminal here. Not the saints who loved him. He should've been thinking about everyone when he was sending those texts, or being with the woman in his car. My lands, he didn't even have Holy Ghost conviction. Not even a plain old "right living" Don conscience.

Re: Chris reed joins the ministry elite
 

I was looking at CRs Facebook page on which he posted this on 4/5/22

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/ujX...ibextid=oFDknk

Adultery, scandals, divorce and an explosive ministry, the world has never recovered from...

“They drove me away from the Church Because I was divorced.”
-Kathryn Kuhlman

In one occasion, Kathryn Kuhlman was preaching in a church and someone informed the pastor that she was divorced which led the pastor walking up to the front and grabbing the microphone from her and apologizing to the crowd for having a “false prophet” preaching, she was escorted by the ushers out of the church and ran off town. She wept!

On a rare occasion where Kathryn would address her past she made this comment about her peers during her crisis. “... You know sometimes it’s a thousand times easier to die physically than to keep on living. You see, the Lord forgives, but people don’t.

They’ll drive it in, and they’ll drive it in, and they’ll drive it in, and they’ll drive it in. And they’ll pierce your heart, and they’ll pierce it clear through.

Kathryn Kuhlman died! This was her popular phrase, she would go on to say, it was the price she paid for the glory.

Kathryn remembers vividly the days she died to and carried God's glory.
"It’s much easier to die than to live, death to the flesh and the opinions of this world, that very day at the end of that dead-end street is when I died at four, on a saturday afternoon.
Today, I feel it was part of God’s perfect will for my life.”

For Kathryn Kuhlman, her greatest anointing began to manifest from 49-59 years.
In those days, she walked past people and they collapsed to the floor because of the heavy presence of the Holy Spirit she carried. Healings and strange miracles never before recorded accompanied her ministry till death.
Even through Kathryn Kuhlman was out of public ministry for almost 8 years, when she hit the platform again, the glory of the latter house surpassed the former.
Suddenly all the churches that attacked her because of her divorce, opened their arms wide like they weren’t the ones that almost drove her into suicide.
The anointing was always there. All it needed was activation and constant use. God’s grace is irreversible. He does not change His mind about what He gives, He’s not two-faced. Your perspective or mindset about Him may change, but He does not.
So many have may have left ministry because of one thing or the other, you may have stopped pastoring, holding meetings or whatever form of ministry because of pressures, financial, marital or personal issues, but know that God uses these pressures to bring out His best in us.
Apostle Paul says: we are pressed on every side but not crushed, cast down but not destroyed. The promise always comes after the process.
From Kathryn’s example, we have learned that no one is far too gone, no one is out of God’s use, and instead of driving the word of God against people that are under pressure, let’s help them heal. Let’s get them back on track. Handle that brother or sister with care. God does not just want some individual spiritual giants, He wants to build His body! God is not just interested in your denomination, He wants to build His Church!

HER LAST MEETING..
As everyone left the auditorium, Kathryn walked quietly to the end of the stage. She raised her head and slowly scanned the balcony, as if she was gazing at every seat. It seemed like an eternity. Then, Kathryn dropped her gaze to the second balcony, following every row and every seat with her eyes. Then, she looked at the ground floor, studying every seat.
We can only imagine what was going through Kathryn's mind, the memories, the victories, the healings, the laughter, and the tears. Was it possible that Kathryn knew she would never return to the platform? Was it possible that, at that moment, she said good-bye to her earthly ministry?
In just a little over three weeks from that date, Kathryn passed on into glory in the Hillcrest Medical Center of Tulsa, Oklahoma, after open-heart surgery.

Re: Chris reed joins the ministry elite
 

What’s a leader? What’s a minister? Jesus told us, he said you’ll be a servant!

First off, I don’t pastor, preach to married women, that’s the job of their husband. We’ve already had that conversation.

Second, does the church belong to me? If you’re asking about the building, well I would have to say, Yes. Because we hold services in my home. If you’re asking about the body, then I belong to the church. We do services very untraditional here, couple weeks ago, I shut the services down and we went out and ministered to several people that were out because of sickness or they had to work (farming season). My family and I gave food to some, my wife went and prayed for a lady that was sick, we drove 20 minutes anyway to bring a drink to someone that was working.

The way you have viewed and been hurt by traditional church and leadership has hindered your views on others. And you view mostly preachers as others who may be in error.

Re: Chris reed joins the ministry elite
 

Are you an island all to your lonesome?

Re: Chris reed joins the ministry elite
 

Are you serious by this? I’m not trying to misconstrue your remarks, I’m trying to understand. You really believe what this response?