Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 

They did debate baptism for the remission of sins and the purpose of baptism in general.

"But there are some of them [the Gnostics] who assert that it is unnecessary to bring persons to the water. Rather, they mix oil and water together, and they place this mixture on the heads of those who are to be initiated....This they maintain to be the redemption.....Other [heretics], however, reject all these practices, and maintain that the mystery of the unspeakable and invisible power should not to be performed by visible and corruptible creatures.

....These claim that the knowledge of the unspeakable Greatness is itself perfect redemption." Irenaeus 180 ad

"Now, the teaching is laid down that "without baptism, salvation is attainable by no one." This is based primarily on the ground of that declaration of the Lord, who says, "Unless one is born of water he has not life." However, when this is laid down, there immediately arise scrupulous (or rather, audacious) doubts on the part of some." Tertullian 198 ad

I only used the early church fathers writings to show that this is not a new fangled doctrine, but that it was taught very early on that remission of sins which is the same as forgiveness of sins happens at water baptism.

Dan was just sprouting off at the mouth, even though he knew what the ECF's taught on this subject.

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 

Forgiveness of sins is still available at repentance ... despite what the 6 of you think.

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 

It's more important what the Bible states. Remission happens at baptism....why tarriest thou, arise and be baptized and wash away your sins calling on the name of the Lord.

The crowd is not always right. :)

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 

I believe that full New Testament salvation contains repentance, water baptism, and Holy Ghost infilling. But I've always had this question.... I was filled with the Holy Ghost immediately after repentance. I spoke in tongues and wept for nearly 40 or more minutes. If my sins weren't remitted until water baptism (which happened later) .... how did God fill me with the Holy Ghost seeing that I was still, according to some, covered in sin? I've wrestled and wrestled with that. It's like I compare my EXPERIENCE to what people are teaching and it doesn't mesh. People are filled with the Holy Ghost before water baptism all the time. That in itself testifies to the fact that sins are forgiven and one is justified at Repentance. However, this doesn't mean that one shouldn't obey and be water baptized, it's only a practical example that experience doesn't match what is often taught.

What if I repented of sin, was filled with the Holy Ghost and was then killed crossing the street on the way to the creek to be water baptized? Many would say that I was lost because I wasn't baptized. Others would say that I was acting in obedience and therefore God would have mercy.

Just some questions that roll around in my crazy head.

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 

the blood is applied at baptism , just like the brazen altar , the scacrifice was slain at the altar and of course it bled. if the blood is applied sin is remitted.. the brazen laver however washed away the mess which represented bapt.u need both . but the blood is aplied at repentance no question about it.!

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 

I think it's fair to say that the blood is effectual through repentance, baptism, and Holy Ghost infilling.

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 

so the blood is applied at repentance and then the blood is removed at baptism?
does this mean the blood is "unapplied" at baptism?

I think you're putting too much emphasis on a type.

Were the priests immersed in the laver?
If they were not immersed in the laver, and if the laver depicts baptism, then baptism does not have to be by immersion.

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 

Just accept the fact that baptism does not "really" cleanse from sin. It's only a symbolic cleansing. Cornelius and his friends received the Holy Ghost Baptism before they were baptized in water. Peter had preached that "whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:43). Evidently those Gentiles believed and received remission/forgiveness of sins, and while they rejoiced in their new experience of salvation, they received the Holy Ghost Baptism and began to speak with tongues. All of this happened while Peter was preaching. Peter later commanded them to be baptized "in the name of the Lord" (Acts 10:48). When Peter later described what happened at the house of Cornelius, he said that God had granted the Gentiles "repentance unto life" (Acts 10:18). Then about 11 years later at the Jerusalem Council, Peter said that God had purified "their hearts by faith" (Acts 15:9). In other words, as those Gentiles heard the Word, they believed, were saved/born again and cleansed from sin and then received the Holy Ghost Baptism --all of this before water baptism.

Thousands of people have received the Holy Ghost Baptism before being baptized in water and some have never been baptized in water. It sounds to me that God is not as concerned about "proper" water baptism as we are.

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 

Very astute observation. Sprinkling/pouring the waters of purification are found throughout the Old Testament, immersion for Mikvah was a tradition that began under Ezra during the captivity, it's not a "biblical" practice at all.

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 

I don't think many consider gnostics as argument among "Christianity." When I said what I said I was referring to what many call orthodox teaching. In that there was no argument and even from reformed scholars they admit this.

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 

God considers faith righteouss but it does not mean the righteousness of Christ has been applied to you and seperates you from the body of sin. God looks at your faith and considers your heart "toward" him. As the only thing that can keep you and God apart is enmity of the heart. With your heart toward him God can move in your life. It has nothing to do with the record of sins but the enmity at first. Then God can fill you as you are not fighting him thus you are considered right at heart. Again, it does not have to do with remission of sins. That comes at baptism when you are united with Christ's atonement and righteousness.

God simply recognizes your "faith" as a "proper response" or "righteous deed"

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 

Peter in Acts 11:16-18 was recounting the gentile house of Cornelious to the Jews as to how God saved them also, in 18 it says " When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life."

notice vs 17...If therefore God gave them the same gift as he gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?"

The Gentiles believed and repented simultaneously and obeyed Peters commandment to be baptized where their sins were remitted. Faith, Blood, and Obedience is the three necessary elements to acomplish new birth thru co-death (believe/repent) co- burial (baptism) co-resurection (Holy ghost)

Your sins are forgiven at repentance but not remiited until baptism and the infilling of the Holy Ghost is for your spirit to be born of "SPIRIT" making your inherited fallen nature new, but your committed sins still must be washed in baptism! When Jesus forgave the adultress after calvary she still had to be "Born Again" and her Sins remitted in baptism.

The Holy Ghost simply revives the dead spiritual state that has been void of divine communion and life from the fall...sin still dwells in your flesh, and the sins of the flesh you committed need remission in water, the spiritual sin that brought you spiritual death was committed by Adam & Eve and That which is born of the Spirit (big S) is spirit (little s) your little s is what was born again! your sins of the flesh is what was washed by the waters of baptism where the laver of water/blood leads to Holy of Holies (born of Spirit) "and there are three that bear witness on earth; the Spirit, the water and the blood ,and these three agree as one. 1 John 5:8 "as one born again experience!

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 

There's a fundamental misunderstanding of the Greek in this argument. The term remission is:

859 // afesiv // aphesis // af'-es-is //

from 863 ; TDNT - 1:50
9,88; n f

AV - remission 9, forgiveness 6, deliverance 1, liberty 1; 17

1) release from bondage or imprisonment
2) forgiveness or pardon, of sins (letting them go as if they
had never been committed), remission of the penalty

It's the same word in Ephesians 1:7,

Ephesians 1:7
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

If you understand the Greek, the baptismal clause is passive, indicating that it is what is expected based upon the remission of sins, not necessarily to gain the remission of sins. In other words, one's sins are forgiven (remitted) upon repentance, however, they are commanded to be water baptized as an act of obedience. That would mean that if one is lost over baptism it is on the grounds of disobedience, not because their sins were never remitted.

From this point forward, I'll have to post on lighter subjects. I'm about half way through a glass of brandy. lol

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 

Twenty six pages, over 250 posts, and no consensus and little agreement. It looks like someone is holding on to a false doctrine.

Perhaps we should scrap the entire mess and start over from scratch - like going back to the O.T. to see the original bits and pieces God ordained: Joel 2:32 (Peter preach this message in Acts 2:21-22), Habakkuk 2:4 (Hebrews 10:38), Deuteronomy 10:16 (Romans 2:29) and Genesis 26:5 (Hebrews 11:8) as starting reference points. Salvation is not a N.T. concept! Check out the book of life as noted in Exodus 32:32, Luke 10:20 & Revelation 3:5. Of course, there are also the three men who never tasted/saw death, plus the two visitors who Peter wanted to build tabernacles for on a mountain when Jesus underwent a transformation.

Hint: Any doctrine concerning salvation must address and accommodate all of these scriptures/events - and that is just for starters.

Finally, the salvation doctrine,when completed, cannot contradict or violate any other scriptural doctrine.

May your studies be fruitful.

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 

You sir, are off to a great start!

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 

If my understanding is correct remission and forgiveness of sins are one in the same.
I believe in the greek the words mean the same.

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 

The same Greek word (aphesis) is some times translated forgiveness and some times translated remission.

Here is how APHESIS is used in the KJV New Testament:

Mt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the REMISSION of sins.
Mr 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the REMISSION of sins.
Mr 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never FORGIVENESS, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
Lu 1:77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the
REMISSION of their sins,
Lu 3:3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the
baptism of repentance for the REMISSION of sins;
Lu 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the
brokenhearted, to preach DELIVERANCE to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to SET AT LIBERTY them that are bruised,
Lu 24:47 And that repentance and REMISSION of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Ac 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the REMISSION of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Ac 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Ac 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive REMISSION of sins.
Ac 13:38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that
through this man is preached unto you the FORGIVENESS of sins:
Ac 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive
FORGIVENESS of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the FORGIVENESS of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the
FORGIVENESS of sins:
Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no REMISSION.
Heb 10:18 Now where REMISSION of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 

This is not true! See my point above to you. A person that has faith(which is based on context) is considered "toward" God. A person can have there sins not remmitted in the sense of history and God still move on them etc... THe only time God cannot move in your life is if you refuse him or your heart is at enmity or against him. Having initial faith(context) and then repentance does not mean they have been united with Christ and HIS atonement for remission of sins and the destruction of the body of sin. Jesus is clear on the order regarding repentance and sacrifice.

Mat 5:23 So if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you,
Mat 5:24 leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.

One must come to God with a proper heart BEFORE one can offer sacrifice. When we are baptized we offer ourselves WITH Christ to be united with Him in his sacrifice. Thus you offer "your gift" which is your life in faith in baptism to be united in with Him in His death/blood/sacrifice.

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 

You are correct Luke 447...untill we apply the blood, there is no remission. When one recieves the Holy Ghost before or after baptism, this signifies that our repentance is genuine and we are sealed with the baptism of the Holy Ghost {repentance to life" Acts 11:18} ie to life when co-buriel is achieved and blood remitts sins in the watery grave!

Like the Father of the "prodigal son" who was waiting with a heart of love and forgivness, at repentance, he recieves us. Then he robes us in "the best robe" A type of "blood washed"..and puts the ring (seaL of redemption HG the family ring was used as the stamp of authority to purchase and represent the Fathers House) and then he put sandals on his feet for he was to enter the house where the fatted calf was slain for the "feast" ( a type of the wedding feast. Repented..Robed...and Sealed(HG) And he could have put the ring on first as long as all was acomplished before entering the fathers House!

Repentance brought him before the Father...the robe and ring represented baptism and Spirit infilling. The Robe coverd the filth of his lost condition, just as the "flood destroyed and covered the sin "wherby eight souls were saved by water". 1 Peter 3:20

Even the law of the harvest makes this so plain!...why do folks struggle so much with 'plain truth?

Except the corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, life will not come forth!"

FALL (repent) INTO GROUND ( burial) LIFE COME FORTH (ressurection) The Cross is so simple it always confounds the wise with all their grammer passive this and active verb that....it is what it is!

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 

Well, if you haven't finished that other half of the brandy, and haven't nodded off, what you just said sounds like what Bro. Goss, Bro. Greer, and others taught --that we should be baptized for (because of) the remission/forgiveness of sins, not in order to obtain remission/forgiveness of sins.

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 

While I am the biggest proponent of 2 Tim 2:15 Do not lose sight that Greek
language rules and it's 'constructions' are nowhere mentioned in the bible as
"Ordained of God"...Jesus said "the Words I speak are Spirit and Life" not reinterpreted by and through prepositions,verbs, adjectives and other man-made devices that try to disect and slant for personal agendas. God confounded the languages at Babel to remind man who thought to reach heaven with their ingenuity and craft, No matter how you try to make "your mortar" the Word still says, "And be baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins" 1Peter 3:20-21 Eight souls were saved by water"... "whereby Baptism doth also saves us,"

The waters of the flood destroyed sinful man on the earth, the earth was burried for 150 days Gen 8:3 Gods math showing 3x50 means 3=divine completness and 50=Jubillee/resurection. Eight souls were saved by the 'water' remitting the sin! They were now seperated from the sinful world that reaped the wages of sin...death! When the dove returned with the olive branch, this signified being born of Spirit! They were *(in type) born of water and Spirit! And after Noah worshiped by burnt offering, God made the Noahic Covenent. Our worship and sacrafice is accepted only after our repentance, baptism and Holy Ghost infilling is the "3x50 Spirit,water and blood" witness on earth" that Agree as One" 1John 5:8 We can not enter into the New Covenant unless "for the remission of sins" is done in Jesus Name, by "water!" Not passive or active towers of "Babel."

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 

WHich has NO support in the Greek at all!

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 

To be baptized because you sins were already forgiven doesn't make sense. Peter would have been telling those who believed and were convicted to 1) repent and then be baptized because your sins were forgiven at repentence.....why not say repent for (in order to) the forgiveness of sins and then be baptized (insert whatever reason you believe baptism accomplishes or is symbollic of).

Really, it just doesn't make sense to say Repent and be baptized everyone of you for (because you have) the forgiveness of your sins. You are making the assumption that sins are remitted either at faith or repentance. And then one has to wonder why be baptized, what profit is there in water baptism and why wasn't that point made clear? If the reason for repentance was to remit sins then why didn't Peter tell them why they were being baptized. Sorry saying they were baptized because their sins had already been forgiven doesn't work.

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 

IT also doesn't make sense of Peter to say twice in 1 Peter 3 that water saves! Then oooohhh he didn't really mean it! LOL! The only time people can get confused is when they take "one" witness out of context and that is Paul. Even then he cleary teaches baptism is essential in uniting with Christ.

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 

That's been tossed back and forth on this forum for a long time.

The Greek word "for" in Acts 2:38 is "eis."
Just as the English word "for" can have more than one meaning, so can the Greek word "eis."

In English we could say that a man was wanted "for" ("because of," not "in order to obtain") bank robbery and then give instructions to see the local sheriff "for" ("in order to obtain," not "because of") the reward.

We've had a plethora of Greek scholars and experts quoted before and some say "eis" in Acts 2:38 means "because of" and some say it means "in order to obtain." So nothing is solved by appealing to the "experts."

The Greek original is ambiguous like the English translation.

Let's not repeat that saga again. Apostolics just don't all agree on that one. All we can do is accept one another and respect one another.

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 

You know as I do if you have paid any attention at all to the argument that it does not mean that in the Greek.

That is not true in the greek. English usage and greek usage are not equivalents.

No Lexicon will back that up and even the greatest scholar to some Robertson even says it really has little support and is more a theological interpretation not a grammatical one.

sorry but to much evidence outside of Acts 2:38 shows baptism is the time and place of washing away of sin. This it not a one time argument!

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 

In Acts 2:38 (KJV), Peter said, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR (Greek eis) the remission of sins." According to one source, eis is translated in this way in the King James Version:

Into – 571 times

To -- 282 times

Unto -- 208 times

In -- 131 times

For -- 91 times

On -- 57 times

Toward -- 32 times

That -- 30 times

Against -- 25 times

Upon -- 25 times

At -- 20 times

Among -- 16 times

Concerning -- 5 times

“because of” – 0 times

Also if "eis" means "because of" it would also include repentance in the phrase. Thus repent and be baptize because of remission of sins. Thus forgiveness of sins is before Repentance and baptism. Which makes the whole thing make little sense.

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 

I agree with everything you said up to the bolded portion! Baptism is "for", or "into" remission of sins... I agree wholly with that statement. But scripture is clear that remission of sins down not occur at the moment of water baptism. What is necessary for remission of sins to be fully experienced is the complete New Birth, of water AND Spirit. Saying that "baptism is for remission of sins" is a lot different than saying "remission of sins occurs at the moment of water baptism". Scripture is clear on the former statement, but the latter statement is a theological development. ;)

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 

Aquilla, I understand the dilemma you are trying to reconcile in your mind. I personally believe that it takes the full new birth, repentance, water, and Spirit (whichever order they occur), in order to attain full remission of sins. Having said that, according to 1 Pet 3:21 regarding baptism, it's "not the washing away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good consceince toward God"... Remission of sins does not mean that the filthiness of the flesh is wiped out, nor does repentence or even the infilling of the Holy Ghost... baptism is the "pledge", the "answer", or as Talmadge French suggests, the "begging for" a good conscience - to have the conscience cleared of the fear of judgement of sin, or to have the eternal record wiped clean.

Therefore receiving the Holy Ghost before baptism does not mean one is clean of the "filth of the flesh", any more than being baptized does. The filth of the flesh is going to be extant in us until glorification. It's merely the grace of God that allows us to have these conversion experiences, and begin a new life in Christ. So it doesn't matter what order conversion takes place, whether Spirit first, or water first, etc... those experiences lead us into a place where the blood continually washes away our sins, past, present, and future. The entire conversion process is necessary, repentance, water, and Spirit, in order to enter into that position in Christ.

Having said that, allow me to attempt to answer your question about a believer who repents, is filled with the Spirit, and dies on the way to the "baptismal". Here is how I see it: 1.) God CAN keep that person alive until they are baptized. I have full confidence of that. Thus we have to acknowledge divine providence here, and trust in that. 2.) Consider Abraham, he was commanded to offer Isaac, but God stayed Abraham's hand. It was God who stopped the process. Yet Abraham was still accounted for righteous. Therefore if an individual is in the process of completing the New Birth as you suggest, but God through divine providence, takes the person out of this life before they are able to be baptized, God's hand in that must be recognized, and their intents acknowledged. God is the righteous judge, and he knows the internal state of the indivual. If God stopped it, or allowed it to be stopped, as Scripture says "I'll have mercy upon who I'll have mercy".... God can very well have mercy on that person, in the same way he can righteously judge them. At that point it's in the hands of God!

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 

If you guys are going to interpret Acts 2:38 so literally in order to believe that Baptism is for remission of sin then why not believe that communion is also needed in order to obtain remission of sins?

Now we have folks saying that we have to repent, be baptized, and then receive the Holy Ghost in order to OBTAIN remission. Looks to me like more and more is being added to obtain remission.

It was Jesus Christ who paid for our remission of sins on the Cross and my remission was obtained at that time.

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 

In the Roman Catholic Church (which also teaches "born of water" means "water baptism" and also teaches that baptism washes away sin), what you have spoken of is called "baptism of desire" or "baptism by desire" (not sure of the exact words). The idea is that the person would have been baptized if possible but since he couldn't, God gives him credit for being baptized.

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 

Exactly, just like God gave credit to Abraham for offering Isaac, even though God, through the angel, stopped the offering!

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 

God knows our motives and intentions even better than we do (1 Sam 16:7)

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 

Why are you comparing two totally different experiences? Baptism is for (Gk. eis, into) remission of sins.... communion is done in memorial of Christs sacrifice. Does non sequitor apply here? lol....

No man can enter in unless he is born again, of the water and Spirit.... if a persaon has "remission", but has not been born again, what good is their "remission"? I simply contend that the full conversion of water and Spirit is where remission is experienced. Repentance, and Baptism most directly affect remission of sins in a believers life, but full conversion is necessary to have salvation/remission of sins... this is established in several references.

Consider:

John 3:5
Except a man be born of water, and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (pretty self explainatory, water and spirit)

1 Cor 6:11
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus (water baptism), and by the Spirit of our God (Spirit baptism).

Heb 10:22
22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience (Spirit), and our bodies washed with pure water (water).

Titus 3:5
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration (water), and renewing of the Holy Ghost (Spirit);

The price was paid on calvary, but you don't participate in the benefits of what was obtained at calvary until you have been converted and are "in Christ"... "for as many of you as have been baptized unto Christ, have put on Christ"... Gal 3:27

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 

God is the only one who knows our motives and intentions... ;) Our hearts are deceitful and wicked... who can know them but God alone?

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 

BTW Gentlemen, I am a "three-stepper"... I think that's pretty self explainatory!!! ;)

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 

Ok someone break down for me what a one stepper,two stepper,three stepper or 4steppers believe

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 

One stepper - salvation occurs at repentence (i.e. one step)


Three stepper - salvation is a function of full conversion through repentence, water baptism, and Spirit baptism (i.e. three steps)


two stepper - those who enjoy country dancing (TIC) :)

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 

So how would you classify the phillipian jailer in Acts?

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
 

An argument from abstentia does not substantiate a doctrinal position. We cannot determine doctrine from what is not said in scripture, only from what is clearly stated. Scripture is replete, the pattern of New Birth into the kingdom is 1.) repentance, 2.) water baptism, and 3.) Spirit baptism. I would suggest that the Phillipian jailer's full experience emulates what is declared throughout scripture, although it was not specifically recorded as such in Acts 16. But consider the internal evidence of the fullness of the Phillipain Jailer's experience here:

Acts 16:30-34
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? (REPENTANCE)
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord (THE APOSTLES DOCTRINE), and to all that were in his house.
33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized (WATER BAPTISM), he and all his, straightway.
34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house. (SPIRIT BAPTISM IS SOMEWHERE IN THIS MAN'S EXPERIENCE)

Scripture does not specifically identify Spirit baptism as it is referenced in other passages... but there is clearly repentance, water baptism, and a genuine God experience, thus "rejoicing and believing with all his house". The abscence of identification of Spirit baptism does not nullify the replete references in scripture as to the necessity of this experience. We can only assert that if this man and his house ended up saved, he too experienced Spirit baptism, either immdiately, or at some point in his life.

We know that Paul preached Spirit baptism, because that is exactly what he wanted to know from the Ephesian disciples in Acts 19 "have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed"... that was part of Paul's message... and we assert that is the same message he preached to the jailer's house. Paul's message was consistent "but though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel, than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed" Gal 1:8