Amen, and Amen!

My question was then where are the Nathan's and the Samuel's. I have not heard of them or seen them. It sounds like for the man of God cover his sin.

For the saint send out the spies and report back.

Surely you know this to be true.

You can only say Amen when you have gone to someone one on one in the past.

I have...

Kenneth Ley was CEO of Enron. Which went bust after he and his CFO covered up and hid that the company had major financial problems.

That is what you are suggesting.

You business is the ministry.

So cover up the sin.

Protect the family at any cost.

This is not hte Sopranos this is the Kingdom Of GOD...

Really? You get to qualify my agreement? Funny. :coffee2

You have missed the point by about 1,000 miles.

I am not speaking of covering sin.

The Samuels and Nathans are around.

If you haven't heard them, maybe you haven't been in the right places.

Agreement if you can solidify it with the fact you have stood up before...

Understood.

I was trying to find out your point of view.

I have been in more wrong places in church than right. That was my point....

Spme have such an outword issue or issues.

Even a Donkey could discern the problem

I'm not in any political position to stand up to anyone who matters. If you have connections, then more power to you. But I do live by what I believe and preach (I don't actually preach...you understand), and I speak it when its appropriate.

I really don't appreciate the implication that I wouldn't or don't or haven't ever experienced standing up for what I believe. It's unnecessary, really, pointing to a certain arrogance on your part. Quite frankly, I'm offended. I wouldn't even consider giving you a laundry list of what could certainly be called paltry experiences with such matters, especially compared to some here. Not only is it none of your business, but quite frankly I think you are making yourself look bad with your pointlessly pointed question, so I have no need to defend myself with offering specifics.

That would be like telling me that I have no right to speak my mind about political issues unless I've "stood up" to a high-ranking politician. No, I "stand up" by voting in local and national elections, and speaking what I believe at any opportunity.

I "stand up" for good church government by attending and supporting a church whose pastor is good and kind and fair and a true servant. I encourage others to attend, or attend similar churches with similar leadership. I (and my husband) teach our children that leadership is about serving God and others, and in that way I stand up for godly leadership.

Once, a long time back, my husband stood up for me, when I was too intimidated by an overbearing and abusive authority to stand up for myself, and he did so with grace and dignity and respect (for the man who had caused the offense), and still managed to whisk me away to a better place without ever compromising his own integrity, and I learned a valuable lesson--that it's okay to "stand up", and that you can and should stand up without lowering yourself to another, entirely different, level. The level that I've seen some on these forums stoop to in order to point out all the disgraces they see everywhere they look, because they look with a critical eye. They ought to instead, be looking with an eye that is tinted, not blinded, with brotherly love.