Apostolic Friends Forum - New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentance

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Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltaguitar (Post 583175)

Have you ever met anyone who repented of their sins that didn't want the Holy Spirit or Water Baptism. These are easy works to follow. I mean, why not pick some hard ones like loving your brother as yourself.

We're talking about initial salvation, being born again. One repents of sin and is justified in God's eyes and can then receive the Holy Ghost, then their spiritual regeneration begins. They then obey and are baptized taking his name upon them, being adopted into the family of God and being identified with Christ's own burial. Then they live a life of holiness, a process of continued sanctification.

Loving one's neighbor is part of the life long experience of sanctifying ourselves, our hearts, and our minds, maintaining a proper horizontal relationship with our brothers and sisters.

It's the work of the blood throughout.

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltaguitar (Post 583175)

Have you ever met anyone who repented of their sins that didn't want the Holy Spirit or Water Baptism. These are easy works to follow. I mean, why not pick some hard ones like loving your brother as yourself.

Yes, a good friend of mine that I once worked with named Dave. He repented of his sins but didn't want the Holy Ghost because he was taught that speaking in tongues was of the devil. He also didn't want Jesus name baptism because he believed his previous baptism at his grand daddy's baptist church was just as valid.

The man was bound by false doctrine and couldn't break free....though in Bible study after Bible study he'd agree that the Bible said what it said.

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 583177)

Bro. David K. Bernard wrote about how Justification, Regeneration, Adoption, and Sanctification all work together for the salvation of the individual in his book, The New Birth. I believe it's chapter 13.

Bernard tries to link Oneness Pentecostalism doctrine with mainstream Christianity in certain places in this book. He almost makes it sound convincing.
When I first read the book I was like YEE HAW Bernard has it right but then I got over into other chapters and he basically went back on everything.

That is why this is dangerous because he tries to make himself sound like be believes in justification by faith but his definition of faith means Repentance, Baptism, and Holy Spirit Baptism, and living a holy life. It is just another way that they say one thing that SOUNDS like mainstream Christianity yet means something completely different.

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 583179)

Wow, so I guess Grace can't cover ignorance. To bad your friend was just too dumb to get saved. :snapout

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan

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Originally Posted by deltaguitar (Post 583180)

Bro... you're justa nitpickin'. lol

If Oneness Pentecostalism isn't linked with historic Christianity....tell me....what Bible do you use? Was it translated by historic Christians? What about songs and music sung in church? Was much of it written by historic Christians? C'mon bro...the truth is the truth...but it's be a journey to get out from under much of the false doctrine of the Catholic Church.

I don't believe that Oneness Pentecostalism is a different religion than mainstream Christianity. I see mainstream Christianity as a Christianity bound by unbiblical traditions and misconceptions. I see Oneness Pentecostalism as being a Revival of Apostolic Christianity. We are the Revival that many reformers prayed for, worked for, and even gave their lives in the hopes of seeing.

We have a rich heritage going all the way back through Christian history through the dark ages all the way back to the Apostolic church of the Bible.

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan

The UPCI's Articles of Faith are in direct contradiction to the belief of Bernard, the chief apologist for the org over the years ... Ironically enough:

Article on Repentance reads:

Quote:

Pardon and forgiveness of sins is obtained by genuine repentance, a confessing and forsaking of sins. We are justified by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (Romans 5:1). John the Baptist preached repentance, Jesus proclaimed it, and the Apostles emphasized it to both Jews and Gentiles. (Acts 2:38, 11:18, 17:30).

The word "repentance" comes from several Greek words which mean, change of views and purpose, change of heart, change of mind, change of life, to transform, etc.
Jesus said, -except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish" (Luke 13:3).
Luke 24:47 says, "And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem."

Again, Bernard disagrees with his own AOF, stating:

Quote:

Repentance and water baptism together complete the full work of forgiveness. At baptism God washes away sin by removing the eternal record and penalty of sin. (See Chapter 6 - Water Baptism.)

Some like to say that God forgives sin at repentance arid remits sin at water baptism. This is a fairly good description based on the English wording in the KJV. However, the original text does not support a clear-cut distinction, for these two words, forgive and remit, come from only one Greek word, aphesis. (See Chapter 6 - Water Baptism.) Theologically speaking, then, forgiveness and remission are equivalent terms, and forgiveness (or remission) comes with the combination of repentance and water baptism. We should not separate the two experiences.
For purposes of study only, perhaps we can make the following distinction: at repentance, God destroys sin's present dominion in a person's life, and He removes the barrier preventing a personal relationship with Him. At water baptism, God removes the legal record of sin and erases the penalty for that sin, namely death. God deals with the present consequences of sin at repentance and with the future consequences of sin at water baptism. Both are necessary for forgiveness. Thus Peter said, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins" (Acts 2:38). (The New International Version is more emphatic: "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven.")

What do you think, Chester .... on your own AOF?

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltaguitar (Post 583183)

Wow, so I guess Grace can't cover ignorance. To bad your friend was just too dumb to get saved. :snapout

My friend was smarter than you. Please dont' insult a man I prayed and fasted to help who isn't here to defend himself.

The man saw the truth in black and white in the King James Bible. But he couldn't let go and embrace it completely because he was raised in a Baptist home. He had been taught things that were wrong and just couldn't get beyond the things he was taught.

Jeesh....have a little mercy on a misguided soul will ya.

Like the rich young ruler who couldn't give all...he walked away and didn't obey the fulness of truth.

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltaguitar (Post 583143)

Sorry, this was James not Peter. James is addressing those who don't have saving faith. He mentions that just believing in God isn't the same as true faith. True faith means you put everything you have into Gods saving grace. True faith is more than just mental assent. It is a life changing experience that means dying to the old man and taking up OUR cross and following Christ.

You are adding to the scripture. Where does it say that you have to be baptized and speak in tongues to be justified. It isn't in there. You are equating the works that follow faith with baptism. You could add communion, washing feet, prophesying, healing, circumcision or any other step that believers took after conversion as a work that had to be done in order to be justified and this just doesn't line up with scripture.

My friend,Truly believing is having true faith,no differance.Where did I add to the scripture ? I never said anything about speaking in tongues.The scripture is very clear,we are justified by works also not just by faith.Obey is to have works,he gives the Holy Ghost to them that obey.You can't have the Holy Ghost unless you obey repenting and being baptized.I could not add other things a person must do to receive the Holy Ghost,it only says to repent and be baptized and you shall receive the Holy Ghost.Repent and being baptized is the only two works you must do.Now after you are justified by obeying the work of repenting and being baptized and are filled with the Holy Ghost,then you will have other works of faith.

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 583186)

The UPCI's Articles of Faith are in direct contradiction to the belief of Bernard, the chief apologist for the org over the years ... Ironically enough:

Article on Repentance reads:

Again, Bernard disagrees with his own AOF, stating:

Daniel...I dont' see where Bernard is contradicting himself. You're reading a lot into what he's saying that he's not saying.

Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 583191)

Daniel...I dont' see where Bernard is contradicting himself. You're reading a lot into what he's saying that he's not saying.

He's not contradicting himself, Aquila ... He's contradicting an article of faith in his own organization.