Apostolic Friends Forum - It's Tiger Week!!!

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Re: It's Tiger Week!!!

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Originally Posted by Ferd (Post 898186)

Just gonna treat Tiger like I did 3 years ago. dont need to bag on him. dont need to applaud him for his "return".

Imma Phil fan. this win was HUGE considering all his wife and he are going thru.

I was very happy to see Phil win! Just awesome.

Me too. There's a saying, "may the best man win." Thankfully that happened this time.

Re: It's Tiger Week!!!

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Originally Posted by n david (Post 898076)

Regarding language ...

Golf used to be referred to as the Gentleman's game. It's not like baseball, football or basketball. Obviously times have changed and younger, more vulgar players have emerged - like Woods and Singh and because of that unfortunately golf has changed.

Jim Nance ripped Woods for his outbursts, saying that if he were to say what mics captured Woods saying, he or any other broadcaster would be reprimanded.

I said Woods presser and "apology" was made up and scripted. It neither looked, nor felt real. Nothing about it seemed genuine. Well, we know now that the part about his controlling the outbursts was less than genuine; it will only be a matter of time before he's likely caught again having an affair with some other blonde bimbo.

Too bad golf isn't the game it was made to be back in the day.

Bolded: Golf is still referred to as "The Gentleman's Game." But the label is, and always has been, a silly mantra that is more fantasy than reality. Read up on Walter Hagen, one of the all-time greats who dominated world golf for over 20 years beginning in 1914. He had every bit the lifestyle pattern that Tiger has had, if not worse. Vijay Singh was banned for life from the Asian Tour for changing the scores on his scorecard. Pat Perez has broken 3-woods on sprinkler heads, Woody Austin broke a putter over his own head, Steve Pate frequently his his golf bag harder than he hits the golf ball. This list is endless.

And if you say, "Well, that's now", consider Tommy "Lightning" Bolt's legendary temper of the 1050's, and even the ultimate golf gentleman, Bobby Jones, who was once threatened with life banishment from British golf because of his temper. Once in a tournament, Jones tore up his scorecard in anger and refused to keep his score after hitting a bad shot.

The notion that the game of golf suddenly turns men into gentleman is, and always has been, fiction. The label of "The Gentleman's Game" has come more from each person being responsible for their own rulings, than anything else. And as a scratch golfer who's been playing 28 years, I can tell you that, BY FAR, I see more cheating in golf than any other sport. The handicap system is a complete joke because of "sandbaggers". I can't tell you how many times I've seen guys post scores ten strokes, or more, higher than their actual score in order to drive up their handicap, giving them an advantage in handicapped tournaments.

Nance is correct...if he used Tiger's language on the air, he'd be fired. But if Tiger played golf like Nance, he couldn't play on the PGA Tour (Nance played in college and was teammates with Fred Couples, so he's decent). So it's a completely different standard and a completely invalid comparison, in my opinion.

Tiger said he was going to "tone down" his emotions. I watch, at least, 60% of the golf Tiger plays, and in my opinion, he was certainly toned down. There were times when he clearly was refraining. That being said, I wish he wouldn't have made the promise. He's intense, I have no problem with it, and I personally don't really want him to tone it down. Correction....I can't stand it when he says, "Jesus Christ" but then again, I can't stand it when some of you on the forum say, "Geez", or "sheesh".

You think it will only be a matter time before there's another woman? I certainly can't say there isn't a chance, but I also can't say there's no chance that YOU won't sin, either. But I'd like to give Tiger a chance, myself, so I'll have the I Corinthians love that "believes all things, hopes all things, and endures all things".

Re: It's Tiger Week!!!

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Originally Posted by ManOfWord (Post 898091)

If you have such a negative view of our social past in this country, then all I can say is that you see what you want to see to justify your choices. If you can't see the moral decay in the past few decades then you are blind, indeed. Of course there was immorality taking place....but not to the degree that it is now! Not even close!

••:lolI'm not sure if you're telling another one of those bad political jokes or if you're serious!! If you're serious, your blindfold is firmly attached. Do you REALLY hold up Thomas Jefferson, JFK, J. Edgar Hoover, Roosevelt and his women, the Confederacy, slavery, segregation, on and on and on.....as some sort of finely tuned moral machine? You can't be serious!!! The stories that are among us currently are the same as they've always been. Humanity has been prone to disorder since the fall of Adam & Eve. Do you have any facts or data to support your hypothesis that humanity is worse off than it once was? For thousands of years, people have always believed that things were much worse than they once were. You can find these statements recorded throughout history. Socrates, in 400 B.C, wrote a scathing review of the children of his present culture and how awful they were compared to when he was a child. It's an old song you're singing, just a different verse.

From my viewpoint, all I can say is that it appears that discipline and self-control, which are biblical hallmarks of the Christian life (not perfection) are not high on your priority list.

••Well, maybe it appears that way to you but if you'd ever want to try the eating regimen I've embraced, I'd like to see if you could handle it. Self-control in our eating habits certainly IS biblical, while use of slang is NOT.

That's your prerogative. I am certainly not a legalist, but nothing ever comes from a lack of discipline and self-control. Is it difficult? Absolutely! Do we fall along the way? Certainly! Yet in all of that, Jesus still told the woman caught in adultery to go and sin no more. In other words, exercise self-discipline to do what is right and don't excuse sin with "humanity."

••I suggested a lack of self-control? When did I do that? Do you REALLY think my decision to unconditionally love, accept, and embrace Tiger is an excuse for his sin?

I also find it liberating, joyful and energetic to know that I don't have to be dominated by unrighteousness and habits that used to rule me. I can be more than a conqueror, but it is not easy. Winning never is...and if you want to win, you have to pay the price.

••Are you speaking paying the price for the overcoming of sin? If so, I would disagree with you. I pay no price. Jesus paid the price and his sacrifice allows me to live free from the burdens of habitual sins.

That is also the way it is when it comes to family. If you can do one, you can do the other! Salvation is free, but a Christlike character costs everything. And no one achieves that with someone telling them that they're OK where they are. We are to strive and that takes discipline! I am secure in my salvation and my works don't secure that. However, my works/striving/discipline etc, (only with God's help) develop my character.

••I'm glad for your works/striving/discipline. But Galatians 5:16 offers another strategy, which is, when you walk in the Holy Spirit, you will not fulfill the desires of the flesh.

I also find it energizing when I encourage/coach someone to reach for their best in Jesus Christ. We can all do better and we need people around us to encourage us to do so and who believe in us. I always encourage them in their victories and there are always victories to encourage.

••We agree.

I would not expect ANYONE in the church I pastor to think it acceptable for me to use profanity even once. Self-control is a worthy goal and one that is not an option when it comes to Christianity!

••Well, your "profanities" are another man's "Descriptive words". Mark Driscoll frequently uses words in his sermons that would curl your ears up. But that's him and his personality. I don't think your standard for others on this is biblical and I don't think you should use it as a label for others. You're free to your own personal convictions. That being said, I don't talk like that and I would never say those things in the presence of people I pastor.

I'm sure none of Tiger's coaches ever told him that it was OK to always be 10 over! That's not what we strive for. :D

And I'm sure that none of the people that are presently directing Tiger through his recovery are recommending he be "Ten-over" in life. But he has said it's a long recovery road and that he has a long way to go. I believe in Tiger.

Re: It's Tiger Week!!!

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Originally Posted by Ferd (Post 898186)

Phil said, "Considering what life has been like the last year for our family, it's great for us to share some joy." I can relate to that. I rooted for Tiger, but when it became obvious he couldn't win, I cheered for Mickelson! I'm a Phil-fan too!

Re: It's Tiger Week!!!

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Originally Posted by n david (Post 898195)

Me too. There's a saying, "may the best man win." Thankfully that happened this time.

As far as you know!:lol But how do you feel about the millions and millions Mickelson has lost gambling?:D

Re: It's Tiger Week!!!

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Originally Posted by notofworks (Post 898215)

Even with your "Gal. 5:16" strategy, you still have to make conscious decisions based upon what you know to be right from God's moral code, the Bible.

That is my entire point. Certainly we must walk in the Spirit, but walking in the Spirit is not an auto-pilot for our lives. We must daily make decisions and that is simply Christian discipline. I make decisions on the words I choose to communicate (I use the same words with or without church folks) with, jokes to laugh at, advances from women, my taxes etc. It is saying "no" to the flesh and "yes" to the Spirit. Without God's help, none of us can do that. It is more than self-discipline alone, but without self-discipline we stay the stinking sinner that we were before redemption. I don't think I stink as much as I used to! At least I shouldn't! LOL

Re: It's Tiger Week!!!

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Originally Posted by notofworks (Post 898219)

As far as you know!:lol But how do you feel about the millions and millions Mickelson has lost gambling?:D

He's a fool! :D

Re: It's Tiger Week!!!

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Originally Posted by ManOfWord (Post 898320)

And at last, we're basically on the same wave-length, but maybe a difference in terminologies.

As far as the "Decision" goes, absolutely!! But I don't believe there's any power in the daily decision. Our power comes from the Holy Spirit! Following the daily decision, things can actually become much worse if we don't "Walk in the Spirit." No, I'd agree that the Spirit is not an auto-pilot, but pretty dern close...as long as we remember to activate the "auto-pilot" everyday. The recovering power of the Holy Spirit certainly isn't a "One time for life" strategy.

Here's what I've witnessed repeatedly...someone decides to stop drinking and all hell breaks loose. Their lives become consumed with not drinking and the alcohol actually becomes a bigger issue in their lives than when they were drinking. Same things with diets.

Too often, those who are attempting behavioral modification work much too hard running FROM something than running TO something. When we spend all our time pursuing the Spirit rather than defeating our bad habits, our poor behaviors die of boredom.

I don't ever call it "Self-discipline". I prefer the Galatians 5 term, "Self-control" which is a fruit....a result of...the Holy Spirit.

If you ever get brave, I'd love for you to check out the book, "Living Buddha, Living Christ." You'd be surprised, impressed, and empowered.

Re: It's Tiger Week!!!

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Originally Posted by ManOfWord (Post 898324)

He's a fool! :D

Of all the temptations I've ever faced, gambling away large sums of my money wouldn't be one of them! I put four quarters in a slot machine once and that dollar last 5 minutes or so. It's didn't do much for me!:lol

Re: It's Tiger Week!!!

When I have attended conventions at Casinos, I could turn down the whiskey, the women, and was not even tempted by the gambling... the Fri night seafood buffet nailed me every time though!!