The Mind of Christ
 

Did Jesus have to live by faith?

We know He, as a child, grew in "grace and wisdom" and knew the scriptures by the age of 12.

He knew who He was. Plenty of times He said, "I am He"; "I am the bread come down from heaven."

He understood His mission to die on the cross.

He told His disciples if He spoke to them of spiritual things, how would they understand? So He had otherworldly knowledge.

He said, "before Abraham was, I Am."

Did Christ learn this from the scriptures by faith or did He have intimate knowledge from His preexistence?

As a human being, aside from His deity, HE HAD TO LIVE BY FAITH. :) And he learned it, just as he learned obedience.

Hebrews 5:8 KJV Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

If He had to "learn", then He was not omniscient. He didn't know the day or the hour of His return.

Did He have knowledge from His preexistence?

His humanity was not omniscient. Just His deity.

That is basically what I said in my latest post. His flesh is his humanity.

This thread is why we accept His Deity by faith .... Trinnies and OPs .... need not fuss ... you'll never have all figured out.

What was the connection between the two? For example, when He said that even the Son of Man did not know the time of His Own return, could the diety side sort of "flash" the thought, "September 16, 2012!" (or whatever!) And then the humanity side would say, "Oh, now I know..."

I know that sounds trite, but from a mechanistic standpoint - how was He both God and man without the "God" part spilling out all the time onto the "man" part?

I've often wondered this. He limited Himself in many ways as a man. Did those limitations finally reach a breaking point on the cross when He cried out "Why hast Thou forsaken Me?"

God is all-powerful and can do things men cannot do. He can manifest in flesh with human nature and not allow his own human nature know certain things. Like Dan said, we can only take it by faith when we think of His Deity. And there is a certain logic of faith. This logic of faith demands we accept that God can limit His fleshly incarnation from knowing certain things.

The way I see it, anyway.

so let's take it a step further...

His human mind didn't know all things, yet His spirit was omniscient.

Yet He could say that He had seen Abraham, thus had knowledge of His preexistence.

Since He didn't know the hour of His return, He must have lived by faith that all things would eventually be fulfilled. I think His lack of knowledge proves He had to live by faith, even though He displayed more knowledge than a normal human.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm answering my own question, I'm literally gaining understanding as I type...

I think you hit the nail on the head, DM!

I believe He did not have intimate knowledge of his preexistence if that means he had memories and immediate realization of being transcendent and immanent at the same time. Jesus had to live by faith like we do.

I think you question and observations are good questions just like your question about the Logos. :)

I believe Jesus always functioned as a human just like we have to. :)

Jesus said He had seen Abraham. That is intimate knowledge of His preexistence.

Do you think walking on water is living by human limitations? I do agree He had to live by faith, the question is in what? God? He is God.

It seems certain things were revealed to the Son in his earthly life about his pre existence.

How did he come to know he was YHWH?

Does this show us how he came to know?

8: But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9: Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10: And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
11: They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
12: And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail. Heb. 1:8-12

I believe everything Jesus did supernaturally is what we can do through faith in the God using the gifts, etc.

John 14:12 KJV Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

COOL! Someone else does this too? :igotit by experiencing it we KNOW that GOD is directly providing this feedback, teaching straight from Him to US thru the keyboard letters, wow! How close can we get to His own HANDS? :swoon
AMAZING GRACE!:clap: