the Urim and the Thummim
 

Exd 28:30 And thou shalt put in the breastplate of judgment the Urim and the Thummim; and they shall be upon Aaron's heart, when he goeth in before the LORD: and Aaron shall bear the judgment of the children of Israel upon his heart before the LORD continually.

Can anyone shed some light on the Urim and the Thummim? I have only heard one preacher (William Branham) explain what this was, but, he said "an angel" revealed this to him. Not doubting the brother...but... well, I don't put alot of stock in things revealed by "angels"...

Unless the "angel" is your wife. :)

Sorry... I will let someone other than myself tackle the question....

Urmmm.... when yer thummim through and pick out scripture to yer own likin...

That ain't right.

It is my understanding that there were two identically shaped and sized stones, one white and the other black, which the high priest kept in his breastplate. When he needed an answer from YHWH he would reach in and pull out one stone. If the stone was white, the answer was "yes" and if the stone was black, the answer was "no."

I can't remember when or from whom I heard this teaching. It was a long time ago.

It might not be right, but that thar is funny, I don't care who ya are!

That doesn't seem right, although the words do sound like a mineral of some kind.

Thats kinda sorta waht Brother Branham taught. He said "the angel" revealed to him that these stones would "light" up to indicate whether a prophecy was true or not. Or something to that effect.

If you do a search for JewishEncyclopedia.com you can find out more about them.

Thanks, Bro. I ain't the brightest light bulb in the house. Never knew the JE.com existed.

I used to have a tape by Brother Larry T Smith which was a study he did years ago on the Urim and Thummin.

It has been a long time since I heard it (10-12 years... maybe 15) and I can no longer remember the points that he made but I do remember it being a very enjoyable and enlightening study.

His various forms of contact are located on this page.

Even though it has been that long ago I feel sure he would still have it available. It was one of his mainstay studies for quite a while.

http://www.rightlydividingtheword.com/contact.htm

Taking that with cneasttx's link to the Jewish Encyclopedia is an excellent path to take on this subject.

One interesting note from the NT: Paul describes his persecution of the Christians to King Agrippa in Acts 26. In Acts 26:10, Paul says:

"Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against them."

In the Greek New Testament, the underlined portion is: κατήνεγκα ψῆφον. Though, I don't like the font this defaults to, the word I wanted to draw your attention to is psephon or psēphos. This means a small pepple or stone that has been worn smoth by handling.

A lot of commentators have speculated from this verse that Paul was a voting member of the Sanheidren. As you've no doubt read by now, the Sanheidren often voted by having each member toss either a white or a black pebble into a basket. When the votes were tabulated, the will of the council was executed.

Paul is saying that whenever a Christian came up for such a vote in judgment, his "voice" or "pebble" was always against the Christians. It's not necessary for him to have been an actual Sanhedrein council member to use this language, however. From Acts 9:1-2 we can see that he did have direct access to the High Priest.

Another thought is that Paul was employing a play on words. For as the council could vote to condemn a man to stoning by tossing their "stones" into a basket (and thus avoid getting blood on their own hands), Paul may be referring to the stoning of Stephen where he played a direct part in the "casting of the stones" that killed Stephen (Acts 6 and Acts 7).

This is just one example of how an Old Testament practice was carried over by tradition into the New Testament. In this case, the High Priest's stones for determining "the will of God" became instruments for the voting of the ruling council in the Second Temple period.

You are very welcome and um I ain't a Bro. I am a Sis.....:heeheehee
Also on the page I read there is Hebrew and English phrases and some I guess symbols so it was a little confusing.

The Urim and Thummin (fire and light) was on the breastplate of the Ephod having twelve stones (set in gold) represented by both color and brilliance of each of the twelve tribes of Israel. It was also known as the Breastplate of Judgment. The Aaronic Priesthood were trained in the purpose and use of the U and T by which means they understood how to consult the Lord who would reply by the lights on the Ephod. It covered the heart of the Priest. This is very significant according to the representation of the heart of the Priest. The translucent miracle light and fire operated according to the spiritual condition of the people at any given time and that of the Priest.

I saw some pictures of that and it looked beautiful. But from what I understand they put the Urim and Thummim under the breastplate. Maybe I misunderstood the writing as it was a mixture of Hebrew and English.

Beggin' yo pardon, Maam. Didn't see the "Texas Granny" in the wee fine print. But thank ya kindly for the info.

My studies indicate that it was a black and a white stone.

I was not aware of the JE.com either and will look forward to searching through it as time allows.

There is limited info regarding the U&T, but I've always been of the opinion that U&T was the crude foreshadow of the gifts of the Spirit, specifically the word of knowledge.

I looked in my “Nelson’s New Illustrated Dictionary”, and this is what it said about the Urim and Thummim (YOU rim, THUME em)…

Urim and Thummim—gems or stones carried by the high priest and used by him to determine God’s will in certain matters. Many scholars believe these gems were lots that were cast, much as dice are thrown, to aid the high priest in making important decisions.
The Urim and Thummim were either on, by, or in the high priest’s breastplate. For this reason the breastplate is often called the breastplate of judgment, or decision. In the instructions for making the breastplate, the linen was to be doubled to form a square (Ex. 28:16). If the top edge was not stitched together, the breastplate would be an envelope, or pouch. Many scholars believe the Urim and Thummim were kept in this pouch and were stones or gems with engraved symbols that signified yes or no or true-false. By these the high priest reached a decision, according to this theory.
The Jewish historian Josephus (about A.D. 37-100), a contemporary of the apostle John, believed that the Urim and Thummim had to do with the flashing of the precious stones in the breastplate. Later Jewish writers believed that the letters in the names of the twelve tribes of Israel engraved on the stones stood out or flashed in succession to spell out God’s answer. This theory does imply that the Urim and Thummim could produce answers to questions that called for more than a mere yes or no reply. Another theory is that by staring at the Urim and Thummim the high priest went into a state of ecstasy or trance during which God spoke to him.
The student or Bible teacher should bear in mind that all of the theories are pure guesswork. No one knows the exact nature of the Urim and Thummim or precisely how they were used.
There are few allusions to the Urim and Thummim in the Bible. They are first mentioned in the description of the breastplate of judgment (Ex. 28;30; Lev. 8;8). When Joshua succeeded Moses, he was to have answers from the Urim through Eleazar the priest (Num. 27:21). They are next mentioned in Moses’ dying blessing upon Levi (Deut. 33:8). There are places in the Bible where Urim and Thummim may be implied but are not named (Josh.7:14-18; Sam. 14:37-45; 2Sam. 21:1).
Saul sought direction from the witch of Endor when he could receive no answer from the Lord, “either by dreams or by Urim or by the prophets” (1Sam. 28:6). Another interesting reference to the Urim and Thummim occurred during the period after the return of the Jewish people from their years in captivity by the Babylonians. The Persian governor of Jerusalem denied the people permission to observe some of the ancient Jewish food laws unt8il “a priest could consult with the Urim and Thummim” (Ezra 2:63).