How important is "church"?
 

On another thread asking what we will be doing New Years eve, I said we'll be at a funeral. A couple that my wife grew up with, taught Sunday school, and never had a bad thing to say, were going to church LAST Sunday when they crashed at an intersection. The weather was horrible, but cursed be ye all if CHURCH is canceled! They were on their way when they were hit by another car. She died within the hour and he was seriously hurt but well enough to go home after 5 days -in time to plan his wifes funeral.
This has just made me furious the more I think about it because the folks at this church do not seem to feel one SHRED of guilt. No doubt the service will be filled with "The Lord called her home!" platitudes and no "maybe we should have canceled service" regrets.
All the other stories and debates I have been engaged in over the years have come flooding back. On other board there was a young wife having marital problems with an unsaved husband: She complained that he was only home 8-9 days a month (he was a truck driver) and 4-5 of those days were always Sundays to which SHE was never home because of church. She was steadfast in her belief that her "church family" was more important than her real family.
I'm also thinking of other discussions where family life was always pushed aside for continues church services -hell or high water.

Is holding a church service ahead of family (or even God) idolatry? How many other things, when placed ahead of the cross or loving your neighbor, also idolatry? I will let personal contemplation answer that question.

Sorry brother for you pain and loss, wish I could give you some comfort....I have sat through two services when people were having seizures and they just kept right on with church like nothing was happening, another time a person looked to be having a heart attack, but church went right on....it does seem odd to me too...I don't know what to say other than I am sorry for your pain....I am not going to church right now....this is just one of the reasons...its a strange thing to me that people who profess prayer for everything didn't stop to pray for those in distress...

It's the peoples' choice to come or not to come STS
no one held a gun to their heads

this is were personal responsibility comes into play.
I hate it when people blame the church for everything.

I guess I agree here. If folks are pushovers then it would be church or something else that would run their lives... Amway puts pressure on you to come to meetings too.

Just Say NO!

Here is my feeling on this.

I typed out a long paragraph and it sounded so "I am going to do this my way" that I started over,

Here is my thoughts.

Dh and I choose to go to church because it lifts us up spiritually to be in the sanctuary with other Christians.It builds our faith to hear praise reposrts, it fills us with joy to hear songs from the choir and our special singers, And when messages are brought and interpreted the power of God is magnified in my heart. I am uplifted and spiritually fed when I hear God's annointed preacher bring a message from the pulpit.

I take g-baby to church and he goes to Sunday School,but not to childrens church. I take him with me when we have morning service. How is he going to learn how to behave if I do not have him with me?

My church does not demand this of me, I choose to gather with them.

My church cancelled services this past wed> due to Christmas on Tuesday, dh and I found a church that was having services and we went.

Today it is raining and believe it or not we have been have thunderstorms but unless it is pouring so bad we can not see, dh and I and baby will be going to church. If my church cancels we will go somewhere else. We love being in church.

Everyone is different, we all feel strongly about some things and less strongly about other things. I feel strongly about being in church and not just my home church, and not just pentacostal churches. I go to all types of churches for revivals and singings and special speakers and I have spoken at different churches.

I was not a mean athiest, but I would gravitate toward others that felt like me. Now I am a Christian and I find myself pulled to be in the company of those that worship and love and praise the same God that I do.

Sorry for being long winded.

Some of the most precious experiences of worship and prayer I've ever had with our family were in our living room. Often the depth of love and freedom felt is so great "church" as we know it feels like a shallow show that tries to cater to all through generalities. I'm more for house churching because the more and more I experience church the more and more I'm convinced we have errored. We don't "go to church". That defines church as a building. It's building worship and potentially idolatrous. We can put meeting in a building so far ahead of everything else our families suffer. First and foremost we have to understand that the "church" is a people and where two or more are gathered in the name of Jesus, there he is in the midst of them. I'll go as far as to say, it doesn't matter if you're in church three or four days out of the week. If you don't have a family time devoted to prayer and reading the Bible, you've missed the boat. It's not about going to church -- it's about being the church.

Thad, Once again I halt between two opinions:

1. We have been conditioned through the years [those of us raised in Apostolic churches/organizations] that church comes first. Many do this in the name of God but it is not God first, it is church first. This in not scriptural and church leadership are to be blamed.

• In all fairness, Pastor does what he thinks is best for the church and has a bias because his life is the church; whereas our families and jobs are our lives, and church itself, a third or fourth on the list.
• For all the prior conditioning I find it ironic that at the times I think should be the most 'spiritual' like the birth fo Christ and the New Year we can rarely find a church open, and those that are are eating and drinking and not doing spiritual things.

2. Personal Accountability does come into play here; and many people are ostracisized for their standing in their own conviction when it is against a scheduled service or a church activity. Those who live by their own convictions are often not accepted as 'submissive' to church leadership and denied accessability to church leadership's response in counseling , hospital visitation, and conducting of weddings and funerals.

• When did Pastor's get too busy to go pray for people who are having surgery, in the hospital, or at home on their deathbed?
• Who do Pastor's think they are who say they will not counsel those who do not pay their tithes? Are they not making themselves HIRELINGS after all?

So, I do think personal accountability is essential, but I also think that the Bible bears out that leadership are accountable for what they do or don't do, teach or don't teach.

Charles Stanley had an excellent sermon this morning: one thing he said that stood out in my mind. He said, "Jesus takes full responsibility for the consequences of our obedience, and we must take full responsibility for our disobedience." [He was talking about obedience to God and not man, BTW].

Blessings, Rhoni

Randy Wayne,

I too am sorry for your loss, and today things would be taught different in regard to women who have unsaved husbands, but this was not the case years ago.

She died being as true to God and obedient as she could be and God will honor her for this. I also believe that God knows and also plans when our time on earth is finished.

Give your hurt to God and let him comfort you.

Blessings, Rhoni

I have seen churches cancel service and yet those same people go out anyway to eat or to someone's house for fellowship.

Also, I understand what RW is saying..............you are made to feel like you're backslidden if you don't make an effort to get out and go to church. I really hate to see elderly folks feel so bad because they can't get out to church when the weather is too bad for them to be driving in.

I believe God has given us "good sense" to know what's best for us in these situations.

What are you talking about???

sorry but I am confused by both of your statements...maybe you didn't understand what I was saying.....Thad you are a split personality perhaps...you were the support of my thread perviously about my church...now I am church bashing....no don't think so...

Great post....

AMEN.....

People always come before church services here.

I've let my kids spend the night with friends vs going to church (friends moving out of state the next day). I've let my daughter go out with a friend vs go to a church event. I'll skip church if a person needs me to be there with them. Life happens, things come up, I can think of quite a few reasons I'd not end up at church. That said, I'm in church every service (so far) cuz I think it's important. I just think people are more important.

Weather is another factor. I live way too close to my church to be skipping due to the sort of weather we get around here though. lol I don't fault anyone who does. We used to drive 30 minutes to church when I was a kid, country roads. We were in more than one accident due to weather. That's stupid, IMO.

Sorry for your loss brother.
While you ask good questions, I don't think it is about putting Church above family per se as it is about putting family & other things above Church.

It isn't about "I will be at Church weather there is a force 10 blizzaard outside.
If conditions are not safe, it is up to the person to decide if it is safe.
I have kept a child & have stayed home myself when I have been sick.

These are all matters we need to decide if it safe or not or we are able to go.

I have seen parents go to their childs recital at school on a bible study night.
The rest of the year they are as faithful as can be & if truth were known give more than their share.

In all I think there is going to be days when a Saint of God will make an honest mistake with tragic consequences.

Unfortunately life happens to all of us.

Yes it is....ya know church is where people are....we can have church with two or even one...its about spending time with God, at times I miss not going to church, but I can have my time with God anytime of day or night, any day of the week....fellowship is good....but the most important is our relatinship with God.

It is good to have fellowship with Brothers & Sisters, nevertheless wherever two or three are gathered....

that is correct sir....I know one day I will find a new fellowship, but in the mean time I know God and He knows me.

Great post! And great thoughts from everyone else!

This whole issue has really burned me my whole life -equating true Christianity with the all-important church service and how often you go. I see the extremes as being nothing less than idolatry, which is putting the church service, and the desire to be "seen" there whenever the doors are open (all to be a good "witness" don't ya know!) as the real "religion" in many peoples lives.

Very sorry for your loss. This is a tragic situation.

I must say however, having pastored I can give my take on this subject.

Scripture does tell us to 'forsake not the assembling of yourselves together..', in dealing with that it is important that people understand the importance of being in church. I was raised and believe as well as preach that you should be in church if you are at all able (not sick unto death or dead, working, etc.). Now, God does give us common since to know when we are to stay off of the roads and such. But, it has been stated that many who have had church canceled, find somewhere else to go even if the service was canceled for weather reasons.

I will say that if something happens in a service (someon gets sick, heart attack, etc.) The church should stop and pray, but then as much as possible try to proceed. (Have an usher help the person out, call 911, etc.) But, there are other folks in that service that may need something from God. What if that is their last chance to recieve something. While we need to be balanced and understanding, we also need to have church!

Another good post, Bless you!!

Well, I enjoy it.

So true, but many find it so convenient to blame someone/something [church attendance] else for lack of discernment as to priorities., not saying that church is NOT a priority but sometimes its ok to HAVE TO miss.

Feb. will make 3 years since I started going to church. I seldom miss services not because of the church or membership ar how it would look but because of me. I do have worship time at home alone and with dh and simple prayer time with grandbaby.

I have never missed church because family was here, they know I go to church, if they come at that time they have to go with me.

Once our car would not start-I called someone to come and get us.

Psalm 122
A song of ascents. Of David.
1 I rejoiced with those who said to me,
"Let us go to the house of the LORD."

It is important to me, I get renewed and refreshed. And I rejoice when it is time for me to go to the House of the Lord.

It is still raining here, my church has canceled services because of the deaths in our church and visitation time tonight. But I will be in church somewhere. Just something I enjoy doing.

I used to go to bars every chance I got now I go to church every chance I get. God is good.

I am also sorry for your loss, it is such a horrible time of year for this to happen.

We used to live in the Northeast where it was very bad weather quite often. When I still lived at home, every time it snowed, even just a little bit, we had a lady who would call and want to know if church was cancelled. My Dad's response was ususally, unless it was really bad, we will be there if anyone else comes we will have church. Her next response would always be, if you were me would you go? My Dad was always very careful what he said because he did not want to live with it on his mind if she crashed and he had told her to come. One day he got so frustrated with her and repeating the same scenario over and over again, he said, Sister, if I were you I would do what you would do. At times like this he would always leave it to the individual as to whether they ought to get out or not. He knew that there were single Moms with kids and the elderly who do not get around easily. So, when it snowed we had church with whoever came, and God blessed the efforts of those who did. But we had one elderly lady who told my Dad that when she was not in church she had church at home. She judged the time and when she figured we were singing she would be singing. When she figured preaching was going on she was reading her Bible. Oh, for more saints like her! The problem is that many of the people who want church to be can celled have no plan to have church on their own. Some do, but many do not. Like another poster said, they go out to eat, or whatever they want to do.

Amen Sis....your father was wise....there are times for some people that its just nearly impossible, and then there are those who will use any excuse to skip out...when we were in church we were there when ever the doors were open, it was very rare for us to not attend. I am not sorry for the time we put in there, it is in my heart that things could have been different, but life has a way of taking us in directions we never planned, God has a way of surprising us.

My pastor has always told us to use our own judgment in terms of the weather. He rarely cancels service but understands if we choose to stay home due to icy roads.

That is exactly my practice.

If it is particularly bad I have called elderly saints and told them NOT to try and come.

I don't want them breaking a hip on an icy step.

I do teach that it is important to be in church, however, and when people start looking for reasons to skip out, it is generally a bad sign for their spiritual condition.

This is so wonderful to hear...and such a blessing to those that have a difficult time....you show a care and concern for the people....Bless you...

Thank you for posting this. I am thinking about the feelings and shame I would go through if I needed to stay away from a church service. This was not "Self" imposed, We were taught that unless you had two broken leggs you were not to miss church. Of course this was said in jest, but they really did mean it. My pastor preached that you could miss the service that could determine your salvation!! He impressed upon us that Church was of the highest importance, above a sick child, above fatigue, above close relatives that you only see once in a few years...it is sad. My moms unsaved daughter and her husband would come into town from out of state once a year, for a weekend, and my parents both went to church on Sunday, both services.

In all things we need balance....putting people before church is NOT putting people before God...it is doing God's work when we fellowship and minister to others...

Well, we went to the funeral this past Monday morning. An insane amount of people showed up! She was a school teacher, so there were all her co-workers as well as dozens of students and their parents. All told, it was a "good" funeral.

And I did not sense of shred of guilt from any of the regular church members over having not canceled service that morning due to the weather.....

In fact, if you put "church" before people, you may very well be putting "church" before God!

I agree....did Jesus not show those that questioned him...Jesus was rebellious to the standard of the day....isn't that ironic?!?

I am sorry for the loss you and the church, and the loved ones of this lady have experienced. It's a mess on our emotions when someone dies unexpectedly and on their way to church no less.

Our pastor is the type who rarely cancels church... A couple of Sunday nights ago we had our Christmas concert scheduled and the weather didn't co-operate. We had a snowstorm but the service wasn't cancelled. About 150 showed up I was told.. my husband went (we live five minutes from the church) but I kept our children home.

I don't like it when people are guilted into anything... so if a Pastor guilts people into thinking missing a service because of poor weather conditions makes them less than consecrated than I have issue with that.

However, Pastors also have to keep their sheep from straying.. and admonishing them to be faithful to service is part of that. But everything is of course, to be done with wisdom and common sense.

I know a person can be killed on clear roads as well as snowy ones... that's the sad reality. And people are killed on their way to work during storms as well.

Life really sucks sometimes... But, I believe the Saints of God are in his hands... he knows the way we take.

I know you're hurting right now, and I know your angry... I know I would be too. The ones left behind are the ones who feel the pain and anger.
But your sister in the Lord... I would almost lay money on this... she probably was glad when they said unto her.. "let us go into the house of the Lord"... and the amazing thing is, she did go to the house of the Lord. And she's waiting for her husband, and you, and all the rest of us to join her.

Guard your heart... God doesn't make mistakes. You can't count on people but you can trust in him.

Well...

I've not been to traditional church in around 4 years -- wait, it has been six years now (wow - life has went by) although I have visited a few occasionally but i don't consider that going because i wasn't a member just trying to find somewhere -- during that time, I should say, I have had a group of people to whom i have been submitted, yada, yada, yada.

That said, I visited a church about 3 weeks ago that I REALLY like. Their vision for outreach is similar to mine. The pastor's idea of "doing" church is very, very similar to mine. Their idea of Christianity is very similar to mine.

So, guess what? I, the anti-church guy, met with the pastor today over lunch and had a great time just getting to know one another. I foresee he and I having many such lunches and that I, the anti-church guy, will become the churchgoer - and becoming that is that which I have feared.

RandyWayne:

I am truly sorry for this tragic loss, but I can't for the life of me understand why you feel such bitterness about church services as a result. Pardon me, but you need to review your logic here. There is none.

Having a scheduled church service, going to that scheduled church service and the particular weather prevalent at the time...you put those all together, then dramatically shake your fist in the air at those who would feel an obligation to attend the scheduled church services??? Sorry, I just don't get it. This is grabbing at straws to assign blame.

I really don't mean to be so strident in my response, but to blame someone's death on the fact that a service was not cancelled due to adverse weather, ergo, there is an inherent evil in feeling an obligation to attend service??!!?

Tragic events occur. Death is a fact of life no matter how much I would like it not to be. By sin death entered the world. Now, we are to believe that by feeling obligation or responsibility to attend a church services during adverse weather conditions, somehow the church or its leadership is responsible for the loss???!!!??

Throughout my lifetime, tragedies have struck very close to me. But I give thanks to the Lord Jesus and to His wonderful grace, that I have not yielded to a bitter spirit that would attack the very Power that can give me peace and comfort or those who are best prepared to minister to my hurting heart and mine.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death. I will fear no evil: for thou are with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

In my life, the Church is not the problem; the problem is a life without the Church. This is NOT a radical statement...it is a statement of truth and faith.

The "bitterness" I feel comes from the spirit of idolatry that many have toward the "church service". The spirit that has many by the throat that the church service is so all important that life and limb will be risked all for the sake of "the service!". I DO realize that life and limb are risked everyday in countries where the government and uncontrolled mobs disprove of anything Christian, but thankfully we don't live in such a country yet.
HERE, it is all about attending service so as to be more "saved" than the person who doesn't. Here in America, the church service itself is the reason for going all too often, not God.

"Tragic Events" DO occur but why do we need to increase their likelihood of happening? To have a church service in a blizzard then declare that it was "Gods Will" when tragedy happens is being a bit naive and foolish.

It is not just this particular tragedy that has me steamed. It is a laundry list of people putting far more important matters behind the "church service", all for the express purpose of "feeling more saved" and being able to boast about never having missed a service.