Drunk Drivers
 

Night before last a drunk driver got in his truck, drove the wrong way on the interstate and killed 5 people, including 4 children here in Toledo. This family was from Maryland. It's all over the news here. Very sad.

This guy will without a doubt spend time in prison for this. I really feel like this is the right thing. But at the same time, there is a part of me that wants to say that he didn't do what he did maliciously. He has a terrible disease - alcoholism. Should he pay for his crime? Absolutely? But should he pay for it mixed in with hardened criminals? Is that serving any good purpose? I don't know.

What do you all think?

As someone who lost my Adopted Sister to a drunk driver the night after halloween and left behind a 2 year old little girl. I would say "Yes" they deserve the strictest punishment possible and if it is with hardened criminals I do not care! I still remember going to the hospital at my Mom's request (she was working and thought perhaps Mary would need family there to comfort her) As soon as I got there the police ushered me into a private room and told me she had died. The policeman had to excuse himself as he started to cry. It was the worst experience. I know I sound uncaring for the drunk, but when it touches your life directly it really does put a different slant on the whole drinking and driving thing. You know I don't care if someone want's to get drunk and blasted out of their "pea pickin" minds, just DON'T DRIVE!!!

My only brother was killed by a drunk driver.........who choose to drink and drive knowing the penalty...................yes to a stiff sentence.No slap on the wrist and don't do it again!!

I was hit three times by a drunk driver over the years.
The last time which gave me injuries which plague me to this day.

I don't believe it is a disease.

It is an issue of will power. Some just exercise that will power in the right way.

Plus, (I will be crucified for this) the penalties are not stiff enough.

In Norway, first offense is a five year ban on driving, second is 10 years, third
lifetime.

In Bulgaria they use to take them to the side of the road where 1 bullet did the trick to get drunk drivers off the road.
While I don't advocate killing people we are too lenient in North America.

All Drunk Drivers that hit me all got off on "Technicalities!"

I was hit by a drunk driver and have the aches and pains still everytime it gets cold and the weather changes.

He was not even penalized. I didn't die. Many people have life complications but they are not a death count so they get ignored.

I leave the justice of it in God's hands.

I understand what Margie is saying, but I also know they made a choice before they drank. I understand they lose their reasoning once drunk also.

I don't put them in the same catergory as a murder who went with intent to kill.

Margie your kind heart....you have compassion, but I think its in the wrong place....the person choose to drink and then climb into a 5000 pound weapon....those people he hit will never recover from what has happened. I think when people drink and drive they need to be locked up for a long time and then it should be mandatory that they NEVER drive again, and that they must take medication that will make them violently ill if they do drink for the rest of their lives....Sister thousands of people die every year, and are seriously injured to drunk driving...as to it being a desease.....they didn't catch it or come down with it the choose to drink....addicted or not...he killed innocent people...

PS...sorry I don't have a lot of compassion for drunk drivers.....really I don't

I believe that alcoholism is a sickness. i do not believe drinking and driving is a sickness.

Alcoholics can find a way to not drive.

Anyone who drinks and drives should be treated as a hardned criminal. First offense should be a felony with a minimum of a year in prison.... and I dont mean the local slammer, I mean the BIG HOUSE.

Second offense should be treated as attempted murder

third offense should be treated the way California treats all 3 strike offenders. life in prison.

I think that is too harsh. People do make mistakes. Some can never get over what they have done once they sober up and wouldn't touch another drink.

Some don't.

I know its harsh....sorry if it hurts, but what happens to those they hurt and kill, I think that is even harsher....

Yes it is. But I know the scripture says to judge according to how you want to be judged. I want MERCY.

Dear Sister...I pray that I am shown mercy also, but I don't live in a way that can kill others...it's one thing for someone to have a car accident but to do so under the infulence of drugs or alcohol....I have heard tooo many stories of there being repeat offenders...over and over and over....I think there are few families that have not been touched by this. Perhaps it is showing mercy for the victims to lock these people up, not to mention the lives that will be saved and not damaged....crippled, burned, broken, widowed, orphaned, bankrupted, homeless, ............the list goes on and on the effects of drugs/alcohol on lives.

My uncle was killed by a drunk driver... he chose to get in with him, so I don't hold the man completely responsible for his death. My uncle should never have drove with him.

That said, Alcoholism is not a disease. It's an addiction, a powerful one, but it's not a disease. The Bible never says, be not sick with cancer.. but it does say be not drunken with wine...

Mercy is Mercy... but if you're going to give pardon to the one who kills someone while driving drunk (a crime) than you'll just have to be "merciful" for the other crimes as well, because they are in sin and don't have the power of God to deliver them from it. No... we have a legal system to protect us and our children. We have to abide by it or it's completely useless to even have and it then becomes a free for all society. Unsafe for us all.

Drunk drivers should spend time in jail and pay large fines, along with losing their licences for a time and having to go to rehabilitation.

Drunk drivers who kill should spend years in jail... in a program, worked with to rehabilitate.. but in jail no less.

yes I agree

What makes you think so?

Leonard Little (NFL Rams player) killed a lady while he was drunk driving and walked scott-free. Happens all of the time.

How many lives have been destroyed by adultry? Children living in poverty, kids turning to crime. It is a sin that affects more than the two people committing the sin. Should they go to jail also?

Sis I feel like you have personal link to this topic, and while I have compassion for you and rejoice if someone you know has cleaned up and been delivered, but no matter what there is a price to pay...

In places where adultery is against the law it can be a criminal offense, but morally none of this stuff is good, having a long list of sins does not diminish the first topic brought up here...the world has a lot of problems and will until the Lord locks up the devil, in the mean time we have to do our best as single individuals to make it better for others. Being personally responsible in how we live our lives and do our best to help those that are not saved...it's all in Gods hands and it must grieve Him so to see such pain in the world...

Right now he is being held on a million and a half dollar bond. I honestly believe that if he walked free after this, all of Northwest Ohio would be LIVID. I do believe he's going to be in prison for a long time.

I agree with all of you. I DO think he needs to pay for this horrible crime. I think what he did was a terrible, terrible thing.

My only concern is that there is a small part of me that keeps thinking that he should be punished severely, but that making hardened criminals his roommates for the next 40 years is not going to do society alot of good either. Do you understand where I am coming from?

I really am torn about this. I HATE what this man did to this family. I HATE that he made the terrible choices that he made that brought this up to this point. I also understand that he has an eternal soul. I truly believe that God weeps as much for his soul and his choices as he does for me when I make a choice to sin against Him. It would be much easier if I could just make myself hate this MAN. But I can't. God doesn't. He hates his sin. He hates his choices. But He paid the price for his redemption if the man would just turn to Him.

Please don't think that I am minimizing any of the pain that you all have experienced because of drunk drivers. I sincerely am not. Maybe that's why I hate alcoholism as much as I do.

Thank you - all of you -for your input. It has given me much to think about.

Driving Drunk is a crime... it's a punishable crime to protect the innocent.
If we could punish men and woman for adultery etc, that'd be wonderful, but we can't... the law doesn't cover that. It does however cover drunken driving, and murder both.

We have to look at this with common sense too... Because it isn't a crime (adultery) doesn't make it right... but because we don't punish everything as a society, we don't throw out our laws. A lawless society would be a scary one.

I don't think there is anyone who has driven drunk and killed who spent 40 years in prison. The man who killed my uncle spent very little time behind bars.
Many are paroled.

I may be in the minority but I have a problem believing that alcoholism is a disease. One chooses to to drink and most everyone knows all the problems associated with alcohol. One does not choose to have cancer and other diseases. My ex husband is an alcoholic. He was a very nice person until he would take the first drink then he morphed into Satan's brother! He chooses to drink knowing the consequences. I would never ride with him while he was drinking and prayed that there would be no accident. It is nearly impossible to take the car keys away from someone drinking.

I think most of the posts did say the same about it not being a disease....so I think your part of the majority...I think its social liberals that want to make every weakness a disease....

Sister Truth Seeker:
I love this little quote. May I adopt it as well? God Bless.

Sister Martha.....OH yes please do.....I am more than happy and joyful to share!!!!

This is part of the article in the Toledo Blade. I realize that because he could get 40 years, it doesn't mean he necessarily will. But I think most people are hoping he gets the book thrown at him. Honestly, I tend to agree with them. I want to be forgiving, but on the other hand, maybe it's ok to not forgive until he's asked for it???

"Article published Thursday, January 3, 2008
I-280 TRAGEDY
Dad who survived wrong-way crash inspects van, seeks closure
Driver in deadly wreck has bond set at $1.25M, could face maximum 40 years in prison

By LAREN WEBER
BLADE STAFF WRITER


One of the first things Danny Griffin did yesterday after he was released from the hospital was to visit what remains of the van he was driving Sunday night when his wife and four of his children were killed.

Inside was one of Sydney Griffin's dolls, some purses his other daughters liked to play with, a teddy bear, and a few photos.

Mr. Griffin, who broke down at one point, said he was seeking closure.

"They're hurting really bad," said Toledo police Sgt. Richard Murphy, who was with Mr. Griffin and his family yesterday at the North Toledo impound lot where the van was taken after the deadly crash.

The Adrian, Mich., man accused of crashing a pickup nearly head-on into the Griffins' van while driving the wrong way on I-280 was arraigned yesterday in Toledo Municipal Court on five counts of aggravated vehicular homicide.

According to court records, Michael Gagnon had a blood-alcohol level of 0.254 percent — more than three times the 0.08 percent legal limit for driving in Ohio — at the time of the accident.

The 24-year-old said little in court yesterday. Judge Michael Goulding set his bond at $1.25 million. Several of Mr. Gagnon's relatives, including his parents, filled the first two rows of the courtroom; two females cried as they left yesterday. Mr. Gagnon's family declined to comment after the hearing.

Killed in the collision were Bethany Griffin, 36, Jordan Griffin, 10, Lacie Burkman, 7, Haley Burkman, 10, and Vadie Griffin, 8 weeks old. Beau Burkman was injured in the crash and released from St. Vincent Mercy Medical Center Monday; Sydney remained there in serious condition last night.

The Griffins were on their way home to Maryland after visiting relatives in Michigan when the crash occurred about 11 p.m. Sunday.

Lucas County Prosecutor Julia Bates said she met with Mr. Griffin after the arraignment to discuss the case, but she declined to divulge details. Rick Sanders, an attorney speaking on behalf of the Gagnons, said they are understandably upset and are praying for the Griffin family.

"They're pretty distraught," he said. "[Mr. Gagnon] was distraught as well, probably over his own situation and the situation of all the people that suffered."

If convicted, Mr. Gagnon could be sentenced to a maximum of 40 years in prison."

That poor man. I know if I were standing in his shoes I'd be wanting that guy to get the full 40 years.

But really, the man who hit them is 24, and he's hopefully very broken up over what he's done. What he needs is to face the music, take whatever punishment is given without complaint and allow himself to be rehabilitated...
If someone who kills someone drinking, ever picks up a bottle again they should be put behind bars forever. I've always had a hard time forgiving seventy times seven. I don't know how our Lord is so kind to us. What I've found though, he forgives us, but he doesn't always remove the consequences of our sin. Like the one who commits adultery and loses his wife and children... God may forgive and restore him but he may not get his family back.

If he's normal, he'll never quite get over what he's done. And that will be punishment for him long after he's done his time.

Seldom is there a winner in these horrible things.

If it ws my family member who had killed these 5 people, I would have been falling all over myself trying to convey how awful I felt about what they had done and how very sorry I was.

It's sad that we have not heard that from the man who did it, nor from any of his family.

I have to admit that that fact disturbs me terribly. :(

I think I'm with Ferd on this one, it is a disease, but across the board it is complex. There are those who have a genetic predisposition toward alcoholism. This is when you could say it's a disease.

However, every human being is effected by alcohol in a negative fashion. Seeking those negative effects is a sin. Getting behind the wheel of a car having 3 times the legal limit is criminal.

I almost lost my wife and children to a drunk several years ago. The drunk spent less time in jail than my wife spent in the hospital. If I had beaten my own family and caused those kinds of injuries I would deservedly get at least a decade behind bars. This guy staggers down the road and assaults my family and didn't even get a slap on the wrist.

A word of advice: if you are the victim of a drunk who has no insurance- sue your own insurance company. That whole affair cost us $1000's of dollars. All of the medical was paid okay- but we lost money on the settlement on the car and really had to scrape to get money to buy a new one. I mistakenly thought I would take the "high road" and not sue for damages. Dumb move.

The justice system in Canada is pretty crazy as well.

I pray none of us on the forum ever have need to use your advice.

I still don't agree that drunkeness is a disease.

"Drunkeness" is a sin. "Alcoholism" is a disease.

Maybe it is quibbling to some extent. But we can marshall state and federal resources to combat a "disease," whereas fighting sin we'd be on our own. Given the prevalence of alcoholism, we could use all the help we can get.

I'm not sold, but either way, the bottom line for me would be they don't get off from doing their time because of the disease theory.

You're right... I'm glad there are programs to help combat this.

My only personal link is being nearly killed by a drunk driver.

That is close enough.........I have been in two car accidents where the other driver was drunk....and was hit by a car at age 7 by a man that ran a red light...he also was drinking...

I have not read any other posts but this one, since the topic starts here with a question I will answer it IMHO before I get some nfluence from others, who no doubt also have valid opinions.

I do NOT see alcoholism as a DISEASE; that is such a misnomer., one "catches" a disease, or its passed from one person to another., alcoholism is self-inflicted torture, IMHO having been one., self-destructive behavior at its best. (or worse)

No one held a gun to my head., people decide to intake something into their bodies that is not only hazardous to general health, but MIND, and even soul., a drunk is not sane, per se, is not of sound mind YET
before he/she took a drink they were., each person changes into something different due to whatever chemicals are ingested into their body., therefore each PERSON is responsible for whatever acts are committed as a result.
PERIOD.

Killing others just because one decides to "party" a little too "hardy" is still manslaughter, innocent lives are taken before their time, countless people will suffer, from someones CHOICE, that tragedy mentioined is just horrific I feel for them and will pray for these folks.

YES a person committing a crime of murder, manslaughter, whatever should pay max penalties that the laws of the land, state, gov't decide are just recompense.
I also feel that it would be a good thing to provide some kind of rehabilitative services, get the drunk or druggie SOBER., personally I see JESUS as the only ONE whom can really set someone free (indeed)., I know that even in jail/prison a person can seek and find GOD., [in fact an alkie or druggie is already a prisoner of a substance, existing in a selfimposed prison]

To give ones life to JESUS is the best decision a person can ever make, that may to some degree mitigate some of the damage inflicted on innocents., and also help the person IN jail find some degree of peace/comfort, forgiveness etc., cause seriously the guilt on that person once they realize what they did, is UNIMAGINABLY harsh, painful.

Indeed some alcoholics are so far gone, they NEVER ever change, never feel remorse, my cousins wife is one example., she was DWI sooo many times and once even flipped her car, hurt herself seriously, (broken hip, other bones, etc) but still returned to drinking and kept on driving drunk! Isn't that just - I don't know - SICK? In a way a person like that is almost incapable of ever becoming free from that only JESUS can do it for them., but pride often gets in the way, fear too.

My cousin eventually got divorced from her ( he did stick with her for a very long time ) but he too is an alcoholic and just will NOT quit, he does not want to, I've tried, many have tried, he refuses to even listen., i told him MY story that if I could do it he can too, I gave him my ph# to call me, he never did., he is also seriously diabetic!
Dead man walking.
My GOD! to me, that is twice as bad., 'because there IS a remedy, but the person will NOT take it., they would rather STAY like that!? He insists that that is his personal right.

I know that when I was an alkie, I always wanted to in my heart/soul quit, but couldn't., [you'd have to be there to know, its like demonic possession of sorts]., and I know more than I ever thought I ever would., about that particular topic.

BUT moreover I KNOW TRUTH! I know that miracles still happen I am one., He was watching over me all along, and did not let me do something so horrific [in all the times I was DWI, I never went to jail either] as has happened to others He spared me and others, a guilt that would probably have done me in., THAT's how much He loves me! ;)

"HE WHOM THE LORD SETS FREE IS FREE INDEED", praise GOD!

Alcoholism is an addiction.

Driving drunk is a choice.

I have never been an acoholic, but have been around it growing up, friends who were drunks, and I have worked in a treatment program in my old church, but what I saw, what I have lived is drinking is a weakness of the spirit, and there are those who say they don't want to be healed, but I think fear drives them....facing life without the shield of a drunken stupor it too much to face.

Yes, fear is a strong but powerful motivator ., when its all one has known for so very long, it is part of a 'normal' life. Truth be told most people have some sort of "crutch" (or shields) to lean upon in dire situations, most alcoholics started drinking 'socially' and later grew to using it to deal with just about ANY situation, good OR bad. Society deems it necessary to "fit in".

It becomes a HABIT that spins outta control, taking the bearer hostage, and it is quite scary to be so entrapped within such a desperate cycle that renders the prisoner incapable of helping self.
.
And we know NOW that a person need "not have a spirit of fear but of love and a sound mind"., [para] which is possibly ONLY via the blood of JESUS!
Hallelujah! the ONLY WAY.
HE steps in, slays :boxing those demons, setting the captives FREE!

So please tell us... if it were up to you, what punishment would you impose on someone who drives drunk and kills multiple innocent people?

Read the tread...........very long prison sentences.....

In southern Illinois, a man drove the wrong way on the interstate and hit a car so hard that it burst into flames, killing two pregnant women and three children and another adult inside as their family in another vehicle watched and listened to their screams.

The man who hit them was severely injured and spent several months in a rehab hospital. He faced charges that were dropped because the claim was that his brain was so badly damaged that he is now incompetent to stand trial and has no memory of the accident of even of that day.

So today, he walks (albeit with a cane) in complete freedom, and there are those who know him that claim he fakes his mental incompetence to the court so he won't go to prison.

It's pathetic, and I have no sympathy for people who choose to act stupid, even once. I work with a nurse who is in jail for her 5th DUI. She has yet to be in an accident, but I have to wonder, why does she only have 5 months to serve when it's her 5th offense?????