Spiritual Abuse Forum???
 

I just went to the Spiritual Abuse website that Lois Somebody oversees. Does anyone know anything about her or this site? I have never been on it before, and honestly, I don't understand what she's trying to accomplish. No matter how much it says that it's not bashing UPC, it seems that that's the agenda there.

I know and understand that there is major abuse in some situations, but there is major abuse in any organization or denomination. People are people, some good and some bad. If you choose to leave a group (like we did), I think you should just leave and not rehash all the things you think are evil about it. What is the point of "exposing" things ten years down the road? Sorry, but I just think this is wrong.

Like I've said many times, the UPC brought me to Jesus. If it were not for my heritage, I might not have the privilege of knowing Him. Were there things that were wrong? Sure! Do we do everything correctly now? NOOOOOOOOO! We are all still learning.

Just my thoughts for the day!

I actually have a great deal of respect for the site. Granted there seem to be a few whiners in the testimony section, there are still MORE which tell of some pretty bad "abuse".

I think Coonskinner knows the woman. He didn't seem to think to highly of her.

Sis. C...God bless your heart!! This is one of the many things that endears you so to those still onboard the Mothership...you respect where you came from.

As for Lois...I knew her through the old FCF (she was Sarge on the old board, and is signed up here I think).

Anyway, she read some of my posts and thinking I was a nice enough sort, she asked me to write an article for her site. My piece could be about anything I chose to write about and she would not edit.

She remained true to her word, and even wrote a nice note at the end of the article.

That being said, Lois has some issues with the org...some I know about and some I don't. But I think she opened the site and her forum for people to express their hurts...you could be right, but if there was or is an agenda, I am not aware of it.

I am not trying to speak for her or defend her, just to give you info that I know.

I haven't been there in ages and don't know what all is there now...

Well, I do remember "Sarge". I didn't know that was her.

I guess I still don't understand the point behind the whole thing though. Maybe I've just been gone for so long that I don't need to rehash it all.

Sherri, after having read your posts for quite a while now, I can truly say that you and your family are some of the ones I wish had stayed with us!

For the life of me, I can't see what good that forum does. It's actually rather offensive to those of us who have been in and loved the UPCI for all these years.

I'm gonna shoot Lois an email and tell her ya'll are over here running her down :happydance

Some thoughts:

1. There really is a great amount of diversity in the UPC and among Apostolics in general. However for the "outsider" the diversity isn't all that readily discerned. For the uninitiated it's hard to tell a good pastor from a "dictator" without a couple of years of contact. For this reason we do have a lot of people who come into and out of our churches with some very negative experiences.

As Sherri pointed out, this can be said of virtually any group as well.

2. Reading some of the "testimonies" on some of these abuse sites seems to show that the pastors who abused were also in trouble with the UPC. That point is seldom made. We usually get defensive and "lash out" at criticism (everybody does) and many times we miss an opportunity heal a wound until its "ten years down the road."

3. Wisdom is gained through experience. If you can gain some wisdom from someone else's experience then you're a little bit ahead of the game.

4. UPC churches in many areas operate an evangelism tactic of "bait and switch." They start with an "open door" policy where "everyone's welcome." "New converts" who don't practice the outward appearance standards (someone who looks like Sherri, for example) are allowed to participate in the church's activities, often with the hope that they "get it" through osmosis or something. Then when the church starts to look "charismatic," pressure is applied to the pastor who usually caves in and too many times goes too far or is too harsh in trying to get the folks "cleaned up."

This results in many of the "negative experiences" that you read about. This is also why UPC standards are "cultic" whereas Mennonite standards are just "old timey." We often try to pretend that we're something we're not.

People are genuinely shocked to find out that the friendly little church they had joined is really filled with people who are now inexplicitly angry at them because mama wore a pair of slacks down to the WalMart.

5. I suppose an example of this would be AFF in the last couple of weeks. We had to "weed out" some "compromisers" and now we post a lot about how those "compromisers" are "tearing down the UPC," and etc. Asking for a link to such "tearing down" is answered with sullen silence. More false accusations and puzzling comments like "see I told you that's how those kind of people are..." follow. It's the times honored mechanism of "shoring up the base." No one even tried to prove that these charges of "tearing down the UPC" are true or not. It's enough just to say it to rally likeminded people with a similar disregard for truth.

Again, if you ask for help in seeing that way no answers are forth coming. But if you don't just shut up and play along, then you are suspect.

I've split this post/essay into two parts...

6. Sherri, is this why you bring up Lois Gibson's very well known site now? Are you trying to garner comments like Barb's to deflect from the fact that you have failed to "get with the program?"

Lois has been out there for years and is consistently among the top Google searches for "United Pentecostal Church." Further, "Sarge" has been a main stay since the old FCF days. She doesn't proselytize and I've never seen her ever be antagonistic. But she has never made a secret about who she is and where her web site is.

Many other posters to AFF, NFCF and FCF have had links to her website in their sig lines. Recently Steve Epley complained that AFF was beginning to sound like "Lois' site" because of the "easy believism" and other inaccurate characterizations. This was followed with similar comments on other threads.

Let's not play the "get along just to get along" game with eeach other. We should really be trying to lift one another closer to God. From my negative experiences in the UPC and among Apostolics in general I have observed that the various peer pressure tactics combined with the "code of silence on complaints" and the "angry shunning" actually remove Apostolics from the presence of God.

If you've been around Pentecost for at least a decade outside of the core regions, you have seen how what I have described has destroyed entire congregations as well as countless individual lives.

Finally, I remember a recent comment by an AFF poster when he described the state/district of Kansas as being "small" and "not contributing a whole lot of money to headquarters..." I had to laugh. This man actually played along with a very aggressive program led by a late KS D.S. that was designed to keep the Kansas District small and to keep they contributions to "headquarters" very small.

You really have to laugh at such duplicity- except it's not real duplicity: the man actually believes what he says and can't figure out why trying to keep a "clean district" has resulted in the virtual demise of that district. Just can't figure out why revival has largely passed them by.
Just like the rest of the UPC can't figure out what it will take to bring "real revival." They know what it takes. It's just that they will resist revival until their daying day.

Do you also wish that the UPC had dropped the policies that caused folks like this to leave?

I obviously don't speak for Sherri, or Brother Cupples. In fact, I'm probably making Sherri mad by pushing this. But Sarah, how sincere are you in what you say?

What in the world is this supposed to mean?

When a person asks a question, it means they desire more information about the subject of the question.

All human languages contain statements that can be offered in the form of a question.

Or do you intend to play "the game" with me? Is that why you asked what my question meant? Are you also, "agenda driven?"

I honestly don't know either, girl, and am frankly hurting too much physically right now to dig into it...but it's okay. Pela has always showed me the utmost respect, and I am sure he feels the same for Sherri.

I can sincerely say that I wish they had not left.

I can sincerely say that I wish 'things' had not happened that caused them to leave.

And I can sincerely say that though they are not numbered with the UPCI, they are still a part of 'us'.

No, Coonskinner does not know me personally- only via contact through these boards. We both have a mutual respect for one another and he's even called me "sister."

This is quite true. And her article has remained along with her email so people could give her feedback.

Hello there, Barb!

I'm sorry to hear about your pain, Sister Barb. I'll be praying for you in a few minutes.

I don't know Sherri, but I do respect her's and her husband's ministry highly. They do some incredible things and don't take a pile of other people's money to do it. "Love & Truth" Ministries is awesome.

The UPC is also "awesome" in my book; except in the areas that generate the "negative testimonies" and the "spiritual abuse." We need to talk about these things among ourselves more so that "outsiders" won't have to do the talking for us. jmho...

I am not "agenda driven". I'm just trying to figure out what you mean by Sherri "failing to get with the program". If you mean that just because she's not UPC, that's she not "with the program"...then you've got serious problems!

DIDN"T I TELL YOU I WAS ABOUT TO TELL HER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:happydance

I hope that my last post gives you some idea of my respect for the Cupples.

I was trying to be ironic with the "failing to get with the program..." remark. In fact, I think we need to work a little harder to catch up with Sherri.

Hello, Sarge...

UPCI has it's issues just like any individual, family, or community. But I want to say...I have enjoyed her Bible Quizzing, Bible Colleges, Home missions, and Pastorates. I appreciate my heritage but it took me a decade to forgive her for the hurts, abandonment, and rejection. I have forgiven, but not forgotten.

The best way to get over something is to write it out or talk it out with a close friend or a counselor. If you write it down - burn it and forgive as you burn it. If you talk about it...put it in you hand and raise it up to God and give it to him.

To talk about it keeps the wounds open and the infection growing.

Blessings, Rhoni

Agreed!

Thank you for clarifying yourself.

It's interesting how much my site has come up on these boards. :)

It's Lois Gibson. There's an information page on my background on the spiritual abuse web site for anyone who wants to know a little more. I don't have a lot of time to respond as I have been very busy. Someone alerted me to this thread (nope, not Thad!), so I felt I'd respond a little.

Sherri, the site does not bash the UPC as you put it. The main purpose of the site is to bring attention to the subject of spiritual abuse in any Bible based church. The secondary focus is on the UPC simply because that is the group I came out of where I experienced such. If I had been in an AOG or Baptist church, the secondary focus would have been on them.

To be quite frank, AFF postings have 'bashed' the UPC way more than my site ever has. You won't find all the latest negative media reports revolving around the UPC there.

To my knowledge, I have the only site that gives ample space for UPC/Apostolic views to be presented. There are a great many links to apostolic sites from mine. In addition, I allow UPC and other apostolic members to write articles directly on the site.

In addition, I also add information that I sure don't have to, such as pages from an old UPC Manual listing the districts, churches and ministers involved. More will be added in this area as time permits.

I would agree that there is abuse in any group, but I can't agree with 'major' abuse being in them all.

Sherri, you could always have written me privately through the email address given in many places on my site and asked me these things. I don't rehash what I went through on the site, though I do speak of things when the occasion arises on the support group.

The site wasn't created ten years down the road. I left in late 1993 and I created the site in mid 1997, not quite four years later. That happened after I had attended a conference on unhealthy groups of all types. It was there I saw how widespread the problem of spiritual abuse was and started a small site as an AOL homepage. It grew little by little over time to what it is today. It's still there because the problems have not gone away.

LOL- sorry, but I didn't get any email from you!

Sarge,

Are the folks who have been abused able to get over it or do they rehash it and build up bitterness by talking about it over and over? I can understand how venting will help and talking to others who have experienced the same makes one feel less isolated but in the long run does it help? I think it is sad when some folks get stuck in that rut and never move on.

Here's some excellent advice given by Rhoni on the subject. http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...7&postcount=16

I have to say, when I read Rev's comment, I thought, "I've never gotten that even once from CS." I don't know you (hardly at all), but I don't believe I've ever seen CS dislike someone simply because they have a strong point of view.

Good question, mizpeh. On the support group board we do allow venting, but we also expect people to get past that point as they heal. In other words, we do not baby people there and we have a limit to how much venting we allow. A great many do move past whatever hurt they encountered. So, in the long run, it helps a great deal to have a safe place to share, along with encouragement to move past the hurts, forgive others, and move forward in their walks with God.

For those who may be looking into registering at the support group board, we screen people pretty well. Registering does not allow you access to the board. You have to respond to a questionnaire first before membership will be considered. And we have restrictions for current members due to past problems where people only wanted access to tell people how wrong they were, were lost, and so forth. So you'll be disappointed if you try to peak at the board as it's not going to happen. The only thing you can read there is our new blog section.

In the field of conflict resolution there is the principle of "Acknowledgement." If an aggrieved party doesn't feel that the other side even understands that they have hurt someone, then the whole process will be long and drawn out- if it ever gets resolved.

The way most insitutions deal with their wounded is to say that the wounded either had it coming all along, or that while "mistakes were made" but that nobody really got hurt. This is often the real cause of resentment and bitterness, and not the original wound.

Add to this the fact that we really have no means of holding our pastors accountable, coupled with the fact that the wounded are "supposed" to keep silent: I think you can see how some things can really fester for years.

We need to shed the "infallibility and invulnerability" doctrine that we hold up for our pastors. The first people to benefit would be those selfsame pastors. We do allow enough "weasel room" on this that most Apostolics can say, "But my pastor isn't infallible..." But just challenge this same person with a purely academic challenge to his/her pastor's last sermon and see what response you get.

Officially, our pastors and preachers are not infallible nor invulnerable. But in practice, that's exactly what we make them out to be. And this will always lead to spiritual abuse.

FWIW: Rhoni seems to offer an approach where she took responsibility for her own mental health, so to speak. I don't know the circumstances, but she was genuinely hurt. How much better would her healing path have been if there were people around at the start would could say, "You know Rhoni, that must have really hurt..." But we don't tend to say things like that. Instead we say things like, "Were you behind on your tithes when that happened... you know God won't bless you if you're behind on your tithes..."

I became a member of Lois site when I was first leaving the UPC. I appreciate the support and the manner in which Lois admins the board. If you are given membership access you are going to be able to share your fears your hurts etc. FOR THE PURPOSE OF HEALING!! It is not a place where you bash the UPC at all!!

I was a member for perhaps a year or so and then as I became adjusted to the outside world I didn't feel the need to go back there. It was until recently that I contacted Lois and asked for my membership to be returned. I have alot of family still in the UPC and I am still affected in a negative way by there judgmental spirits.

If is crazy to think that just because you have not had a negative experience in the UPC to play it down as if you should just: GET OVER IT!...my word, is that how your minister to those who have been physically or sexually abused? Some wounds take time to heal. If you don't have the finances to pay for a shrink then you do what you can....I am glad for her site.

Lois and the other admin have a genuine ministering spirit to help you stay on track with your relationship with God. They encourage those that show up to continue in there relationship with God. How is that a bad or negative thing? I am dissapointed in Sherri putting this on the forum without talking with Lois herself. I believe she is hard towards those who have genuinly been hurt by the UPC....

You know the more I think this thru the more peaved I am....What manner has Lois always acted on these forums? She is always above board in her spirit....

Hello, MissB. I have enjoyed many of your posts when I have had time to read in the past.

CS isn't a fan of my site, but we have had some private contact and I'd even asked him to write an article for the site. Unfortunately he did not.

I wouldn't classify those folks as compromisors.

They went way past compromise, and went straight to caving in.:drama

There is a huge difference, in my estimation, between differences of opinion on "standards" and differences in basic doctrine. Especially when those of us who hold to Acts 2:38 as the only proper response to the Gospel were being castigated on a minute by minute basis by your merry band of brothers.

Pel, I have the feeling that anything I say on this subject is not going to come out right or I will offend someone. Thanks for your response.

Here is a Quote from coonskinner:

Hanging around here isn't going to help you much, although you have received some good advice on this thread.

Spiritualabuse.org is even worse.

:drama

And if I wanted to take the time, I could give you another quote that accurately portrays what he thinks of me, not the site. I'm sure you could find it if you wanted. :)

His opinion of the site and opinion of the site owner aren't necessarily one and the same, Rev.

Like I said, my friend... Like I said.

He said other things, but I will let him make up his own mind if he wants to have anything to say on this thread or not.

Sister when you get down to the nitty gritty every religious organization and political movement can be blamed for spiritual abuse. Or some sort of abuse. Anyway Lois gives enough information on her sight for anyone without a crying towel wrapped in agenda to make up their own mind.

UPCI has some wonderful splendid people in it, and in the rest of the Apostolic movement we have some dynamite people who are the best on earth.

If someone is really looking for truth the Lord knows how to steer them to a direction where they will be able to make a choice between the Holy and the profane.

I just heard an advertisement for not Religion dot com forum. I bring this site up because this is the fad right now to be anti-spiritual, anti-religious, and just plain old atheist. I speak with a lot of young people who are anti-Christians, anti-religion, these young people are looking for debate and argument but they really do want their questions answered.

The Spiritual Abuse Crew may at times run right along side the atheist's forums and what it tends to do is make our jobs more interesting.

It just makes preachers and teachers dig in and study and strengthen their arguments. This is not a bad thing but a good thing. Sharpen the sword to razor sharpness.

Anyway let the dogs bark and the trucks roll on!

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

WOW this a news flash to me. I have read much of the spiritualabuse.com site.

I have posted with and respected Sarge's post in the past. She has always impressed me as a level headed, fair, kind type of poster.

I have wished she would post more here.

Until just now I had no idea that Sarge was one and the same as Lois.

Drop in more often Lois. ;-)