Christianity Without the Cross, By Thomas A. Fudge
 

I have followed the discussions of this book for thousands of posts over several forums and have never seen anybody point out any substantial inaccuracy in the book.

The title and tone are offensive to many people.

If you are interested in the history of the oneness movement, then you will not be disappointed.

Am I right in asuming that alot of what is in the book has to do with the last split in the UPC ???
I am always interested in church history.[

Yes, there is a focus on the AS resolution, but the major focus is the merger of 1945.

Stick with THE BOOK and you will find water baptism with the name being spoken JESUS! Over you for salvation.
Holy Ghost infilling with the initial signs of speaking in tongues, and outer and inner separation from carnal ungodliness.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

www.IfAmericansKnew.com

Please don't take offense, just be careful what you call history.

You have to keep in mind that these men that Fudge wrote about were Trinitarians who came into information that was always there. It wasn't a New Light, because the light was always on. These men saw water baptism in the name of Jesus only, and then they studied the Godhead and found out that God in three persons was a doctrine that had evolved through the ages and that it was incorrect. As these men came together to study the word there were some who were on learning curves and others who had found what they were looking for and moved no further.

Some didn't want to leave fellowships and others wanted to return and justified those notions.

I applaud your study of history, but please make sure you study out all the information you can get your hands on. :)

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

www.IfAmericansKnew.com

As you first start to read the book you will see that Fudge is trying to be fair and studious, but you will notice as you read further that his attitude changes. This change comes when Brother Hall at Hazelwood refuses to allow Fudge to use the archives. You can pick up Fudge's offence as you continue to examine his perception on what he is reporting on in his book.

This book should is only a start in a search that opens up how people go forward with new information they find, and others want to go backward with new information they find.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

www.IfAmericansKnew.com

Blame could go both ways since Hall is one of the architects of the revisionist upci history. Hall has to protect his legacy.

I think the book is a must for every Pentecostal preacher it is a biased book but what book isn't biased. He has an agenda it is very clear. So read it with that in mind. I have bought better than 25 of them and given them away to preacher friends. Remember history is only as acurate as the historian writing it. But he does give part of the merger history than is overlooked by many.

Timlan is an expert on the book as well as the church history. He would be a good resource.

I bought a copy and I've read it a few times and it was worth every dollar. You might want to look on ebay half.com. Sometimes they have used books for alot cheaper than retail. Plus you can sell some books you don't want and use that money to buy new ones. It is a pretty cool set up.

I'd give you mine but I have highlighted it and well quite frankly I like it too much! :)

Let us know what you think of it. It has lots of documented interviews. I think hundreds.

I have read it and have communicated with Thomas Fudge and his father.

My father was a friend of his dad.

My father preached at their church in New Brunswick Canada many times in the 1960's and 70's.

My dad passed away at 43 in 1978.

I was a member of a UPCI church my entire life.

I am now 43 and attend as of 2007 a non UPCI Pentecostal Oneness church.

I could not believe what I read in book.

How could so much of our history be left behind.

It gave me a fresh view of my history...

It is a great book..

N Eckstadt

Why don't you look at the why he was kept from the archieves?

Thomas Fudge quoted men in the book who were living and were part of the merger.

Many of which lived to see the book published, they did not refute the quotes attributed to them in the book.

I even can support as John Eckstadt's son that comments attributed to my dad are accurate.... Pages 283 and 292.

First I think you should read the book without looking for an attitude from the author....

N Eckstadt

My uncle some resources to the book and is quoted a few times. He was mentored by Bro. Fred Foster and a few others in Texas and has been licensed in the UPC for nearly 40 years now. While he was a bit put off by the books negative slant, fundamentally Fudge wrote a masterpiece on our movement. He flat out buries any one who would say he lies by his meticulous footnoting.

I think its a great book, and if anyone has a issue with it they should write a rebuttal of equal scholarly work with the same level of documentation of resources and interviews. If the best arguement other people can come up with is that its impolite to destroy someone's edited version of history by actually using the people who lived it, then maybe they need to go back into the archives of the Historical Society in Hazelwood and examine if what we are today is different that what the UPCI was the day it merged.

I liked this post...

Neck

I think it was just a great piece of work bringing these voices together for our history...

Neck

So true because these voices are all but passed away now, correct?
Seems like he did a great job in securing the history of the merger almong other things.

Otherwise the truth no doubt would have been covered up in my opinion.

It's a great read. Everyone, even "ultra-cons" point out the important contributions it makes to OP history.

One flaw that I found was that the writer didn't appear to pick up on the nuances of S.G. Norris' teachings when Brother Norris was discussed. But that's probably a small detail.

Fudge basically gives a voice to the PCI men who came into the merger with an asumption that there would be unity and mutual respect. He then chronicles the growth of the "Water & Spirit" movement.

The title of the book, "Christianity Without the Cross" refers to the absence of any mention of the cross and atonement in the UPCI Fundamental Doctrine and Articles of Faith. Several UPC leaders are quoted as saying things like, "I didn't know that..."

Interesting read, good historical information.

The title is a vile slander, however, and the author in a not so subtle way chooses and relates anecdotes designed to paint Apostolics as uneducated, overly emotional bumpkins.

Obviously the work of a bitter apostate, but I do appreciate the recording of some history that some are unaware of.

:drama

I guess I might have been wrong. Is the cross and atonement discussed in the Articles of Faith and the Fundamental Doctrine? I just looked again and didn't see "the Cross" mentioned.

If that is the case, and we don't have "the Cross" then we are indeed "without the Cross..."

right!

I won't mind reading this book myself,but due to limited funds I'm not buying too many books at the moment.

Yes you are correct. There are many of the men interviewed in the book from the time of the 1946 merger who have since passed away.

The Pentecostal faith in general is all verbal and non written stories.

We need more men to authenticate and write about their ministries to perserve what the Lord has done...

The book is available as a pdf file.

How do you get the pdf for the book?

That is an excellent point. Since Paul said, I don't want to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ and him Crucified.

Add up the sermons at every General conference that have the word 'Revival" in the title or the theme.

Add up the sermons at General conference on "Standards of holiness".

Add up the Sermons at General conference on the "Crucifixion"

The revivial and the standards out number them by plenty.

Because their theme is what makes us different?

We have "The message" Acts 2:38.

We are set aside in the favor of GOD, "Standards".

Yet they have never reached any sunstained level of "Revival".

Why because they have missed the real message "The Cross of Calvary".

Without the Cross you have nothing to put the power in Acts 2:38.

To them that believe it is the power of God.....

You want revival in your churches.

Throw out the Affirmation statement on standards etc.

Have every united pentecostal minister, pastor, evangelist, missionary, board member, Gen Sup, Sunday school teacher, worship and praise leader.

Preach, teach, write, sing, proclaim the Blood of Calvary.

Week after week after week.

You get what you preach.

Preach the cross and the sinners will find the doors, the pews, the alter, the Baptismal tank, the experience of the Holy Spirit with speaking in tongues, and overcomming life style, tithing, love, longsuffering, kindness, respect, fruitfulness, annointing, miracles, signs, wonders, deliverance, and eternal life.

Keep preaching you are the relevant movement and we will "have" revival in 2008.

You will preach the same message in 2009.

Preach the cross and the rest of God follows....

A copy of the book is available at the following link:

http://respiracreative.com/fudgebook.pdf

Password:
queen4day

I think you can read it or download it.

Couldn't say it any better than this!!!

The book is a good read! It has an incredible compilation of interviews from Oneness pioneers. Revisionists only revise to protect THEIR fabricated version of history. Thomas Fudge is a voice for those who have been, and in many circles continue to be "villainized."

Pela,

I didn't get my doctrine from the manual.

The men of God who preached to me preached Calvary, the blood, the atonement, justification, sanctification, etc.

I have no clue why the AoF read like they do...I haven't even opened a manual in years.

I spend my time and get my sermon material from the Bible.

Coonperson,

You and your wife have been on my mind a lot lately!

thanks Sam...I downloaded it..