Trinity: False Doctrine of Blind Leaders.
 

The terms "Trinity" and "persons" as related to the Godhead, while not found in the Scriptures, are words in harmony with Scripture, whereby we may convey to others our immediate understanding of the doctrine of Christ respecting the Being of God, as distinguished from "gods many and lords many." We therefore may speak with propriety of the Lord our God who is One Lord, as a trinity or as one Being of three persons, and still be absolutely scriptural.


Distinction and Relationship in the Godhead
Christ taught a distinction of Persons in the Godhead which He expressed in specific terms of relationship, as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, but that this distinction and relationship, as to its mode is inscrutable and incomprehensible, because unexplained.


Unity of the One Being of Father, Son and Holy Spirit
Accordingly, therefore, there is that in the Father which constitutes him the Father and not the Son; there is that in the Son which constitutes Him the Son and not the Father; and there is that in the Holy Spirit which constitutes Him the Holy Spirit and not either the Father or the Son. Wherefore the Father is the Begetter, the Son is the Begotten, and the Holy Spirit is the one proceeding from the Father and the Son. Therefore, because these three persons in the Godhead are in a state of unity, there is but one Lord God Almighty and His name one.

Identity and Cooperation in the Godhead
The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are never identical as to Person; nor confused as to relation; nor divided in respect to the Godhead; nor opposed as to cooperation. The Son is in the Father and the Father is in the Son as to relationship. The Son is with the Father and the Father is with the Son, as to fellowship. The Father is not from the Son, but the Son is from the Father, as to authority. The Holy Spirit is from the Father and the Son proceeding, as to nature, relationship, cooperation and authority. Hence, neither Person in the Godhead either exists or works separately or independently of the others.


The only thing right in these false statements concerning the Godhead is "while not found in the Scriptures".

The trinity doctrine is propagated by roman catholicism, taught by popes, priest and the illegitimate daughters of rome.

Mark 12:29

29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:KJV

The question that is been circulating around here for some is:Are Trinitarians saved if we are justified by faith?

Where did you get your Trinitarian Godhead statement. It sounds orthodox but a little old -fashioned.

http://www.ag.org/top/beliefs/Statem...sft_full.cfm#2

The AOG has also stated that "if the Trinitarian postion ever becomes untenable for some reason, that rather than move to the 'tritheistic" end of the spectrum, they would move toward the "oneness" position.

I can't locate the publication that the quote comes from, but I know that I am very close to the exact wording.

"IF the trinitarian position ever becomes untenable".

What a hoot!

Trinitarians have ZERO Scriptural base now, how much worse could it get.

Oh yeah, statements like this are supposed to be good news.

"Pray, boys, they're looking our way".

Yeah.......Right.

It wasn't my intent to imply that they are "looking our way" at all. I was only pointing out what I remembered from a publication I read.

I agree that their position in untenable, biblically now. The Bible is never a problem to Trinitarians. Tradition and a handed-down view point is.

Are you saying that their position will some day be biblically tenable?

And far as "the Bible is never a problem to trinitarians".

You're right.

They just ignore the Bible and preach/teach/believe the roman catholic heresy.

True.

The Holy Ghost never taught anyone a Trintarian doctrine, but I believe some of them ,will have the true of The oneness of God revealed to them.

The Assembly of gods is looking our way -- to see who snickered.

:killinme

You are sooooooooooooo funny!


:bliss

I would say that I agree with OP, but apparently it is only time before I slam Acts 2:38. :rolleyes:

I, for one, would hope that you return to the Old Paths before you do that.

Old Paths I think you need a history lesson - the trinitarian doctrine was espoused a LONG time before the RCC - I think you're one who has no clue - perhaps you believed all that was printed in the endearing publication of the Oneness of GOD - you should really do some better research

I think the name of this forum should be changed to something a little more offensive and direct...maybe something like..."All Trinitarians are Lost!"

That should encite a little more passion dontcha think? :D

I don't believe they are because lots and lots of people are labled Trinitarian by us, and yet I don't know one single individual who possesses another man's heart, mind, soul, and intellect.

I can only guess what you think and what you believe based on my understanding of how you explain things.

Old Paths,
do you teach (or is it your understanding) that God's spirit occupies multiple and concurrent manifestations?

Never said the trinity doctrine started with the roman catholics, just perpetuated by them and other false churches.

And here I was trying to be nice. :D

If a duck was called a chicken would it really be a chicken?

Folks that are "labeled trinitarians" and don't believe trinity doctrine IMHO are not trinitarians.

Define manifestation, puleeeze.

doh! ...geez :killinme

Take for example all these wonderful people from mainstream religion being baptized in Jesus name and speaking in tongues all over the place...

Certainly you aren't presumptous to think they all receive an instant revelation of your version of oneness, and therfore have yet another step until they are really saved, or until they come to an understanding enough to dispute the Trinity.

Seeing baptism in Jesus name does not automatically absolve a belief in the Trinity.

Hey Carp, First tell me where "all these wonderful people from mainstream religion being baptized in Jesus name and speaking in tongues all over the place..." is happening???


Then why don't you try and explain "YOUR version of Oneness".

Yes are Trinitarians are really Oneness and have no problem with baptizing in Jesus Name however no one told them that when they were writing their articles of faith they don't seem to know it???? When Charisma wrote their famous piece about the 'bridge building' the ONLY guy in the article that has any guts at all was an AG official that clearly stated their would be NO reconciliation until the Oneness folks renounced their heresy. They are nothing but 'three-God paptists'.:highfive

Ah Come on build the bridge. And when the tri-theists get halfway across, say I now baptize you in the name of Jesus Christ, and blow the bridge. They end up baptized we all go to heaven. MAYBE!!

In an earlier inquiry to 'Old Paths' I asked if he teaches (or has an understanding) that God exists in multiple concurrent manifestations.

to which Old Paths replied
Sorry, I though manifestation had a common usage around these parts...:dunno

My understanding of a manifestation is a state of being "rendered apparent". A manifestation is a means for something that is generally concealed to be made known, expressed or revealed. Note: If your understanding is something quite different, please share it.

So Old Paths, do you teach that the Spirit of God is manifested as the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost, AND do you teach (or have understanding) that these manifestations exist concurrently --at the same time?

A manifestation could be like the wind-fire-tongues at Pentecost NONE of which are persons!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What I have found about most of us OP’s is we know very little about our own doctrine and a whole lot less about the Trinitarian doctrine – This ignorance leads to such statements like 'three-God paptists' and “their mother the Roman Catholic Church” These statements are what make the Trinitarians look at OP’s and think they are a joke, and dismiss them as “heretics” and “cults” and “crazy people” and well who can blame them.

Just a note – here are a couple of creeds, and a doctrinal statement from the AOG’s someone mentioned – I see a vehement theme of “One GOD” – In this manner your assessment is seriously flawed, and without merit

- We believe in one God – Nicene Creed
- There are not three Gods, but one God. – Anthanasian Creed
- The one true God has revealed Himself as the eternally self-existent "I AM," the Creator of heaven and earth and the Redeemer of mankind. AG Fundamentals of Truth


As is your understanding of words like:
Manifestations
Aspects
Persons

What is this hatred you guys have for the trinitarians? Did they enslave your parents or run over your dog or something? I think if your are going to make such claims of atrocities you should learn more about them – if not I’d shut that spicket off for awhile

Sir the term persons is found in the AG's articles of faith. Our hatred is for their doctrine not their persons. And for your info yes the paptist according to one source was guilty of killing millions. Luther & Calvin had Oneness men killed. Wind blowing is a manifestation is it a person???????? Tongues of fire are a manifestation is it a person??? If so the Holy Ghost itself has three persons without the Father & Son may Hinn is correct.:highfive

So true... I think most OP leaders are not used to much in depth conversation on these subjects. Most are used to one line answers being sufficient as an answer to most questions.

It comes from a "'cause I said so" mentality that doesn't require real answers to real questions.

I wish that we would see more substantive answers to the questions that are posed these days and less attitude mixed in with it.

An open & honest discussion without being dealt the feeling that you are stupid, rebellious or out of order for having the audacity to ask the question would be very nice.

Wise one have at it splain away no one is stopping you.:tease My chair is soft and I will read what you have to say. AND judge it.:highfive

Steve,
As I wait for Old Paths to get back, could you answer my inquiry concerning your teaching involving manifestations of God. Do you teach (or understand it to be) that God is manifesting his Spirit within multiple titles/offices at the same time, that is, concurrently?

In case you are not sure what I mean by offices, I am speaking of attributes/titles that use the words FAther, Son, or Holy Ghost.

The argument of persons is not the contention here - the argument is you have no idea why they use that term, and what it means to them

You use men like Hinn - which you know good and well is not an accepted figure by trinitarian theologans - but both trinnnies and oneness people both watch him at times- his follwing is emotional leaches who enjoy that sort of thing -

Your sources if oneness in nature in particular if it is David Bernard are probably not credible - in regards to Calvin - I concede the point - Calvin may well have been an accomplice to murder of Miguel Servutes, and for his belief in modalism - Forget not that trinitarianism dates back to very early christianity and in no way can be attributed to the RCC - so to contend trinitarians killed people is ridiculous - thats like saying all christians have affairs because Jimmy Swaggart did - or all oneness folks believe in the divine flesh doctrine because some oneness preacher does

My contention with your style of posting is - your propoganda against a doctrine you know very little about - your study of which is much less than knee deep and clearly biased -

I agree there is room for error there - but you can find much err on the oneness side as well - you rant on and on about their three gods - when they clearly state THEY DONT BELIEVE THAT!

So then who is lying Eply! You or them?

At Pentecost there were multiple manifestions on the HG at one time and NEITHER was a person! These were manifestations of the HG who according to the Trinitarian concept is the 3rd person. Thus if a manifestation is a person the Holy Ghost is three persons without Father or Son.

your clearly showing you know nothing about thier doctrine - in which case you have little room to criticize it

Steve,
I was directly asking concerning the offices to which we apply the words FATHER, SON and HOLY GHOST involving God.

Do you teach that God is concurrently --simultaneously---continuing to operate in the manifestation as the office of the SON while ---at the same time--- continuing to operate in the office of the Holy Ghost?

Sorry if I have not been clear enough concerning the aspect I am trying to explore.

actually "little room" is an understatement - you have no room

Sir the RCC killed heretics for denying the Trinity throughout their history it is you who is confused. And as short as I am 'kneedeep" is enough to drown your false doctrine. I am clearly biased for truth and against the paptist doctrine of the Trinity.

A question for you which will be simple since you are so wise.
If a man has 3 sheep all are sheep because they possess sheep nature is the man a ONE sheep man or 3 sheep man???????
Since ONE to you when applied to God can mean 3 distinct beings would your wife accept that concept in your marriage. Where you have 3 separate and distinct women but one wife???????????????

If you have 3 separate distinct persons which are equal in power-knowledge-existance then sir you have 3 GODS whether you acknowledge it or not.

Jesus is the lamb-altar-door-high priest-God at the same time. He is Father-Son-Holy Ghost. He is the judge-advocate-ransom. BUT NEVER 3 separate and distinct persons.

I was plain in my words, and you have replied with something I can not read as an answer. I am sorry for my lack of ability to either frame the question or receive your reply.

I will take from your reply [quoted above] that you DO TEACH that God is CONCURRENTLY:

Manifesting himself as the SON
while
Manifesting himself as the FATHER
while
Manifesting himself as the HOLY GHOST.

If I am incorrect that this is what you would teach, sorry, its the best I could do with your replies.