Is Grace Conferred Through Jesus Name Baptism?
 

Is grace conferred to repentant folks when they get baptized in Jesus Name?
Is grace conferred through the act of getting buried in Jesus Name?

If you are a sacramentalist .. yes.

Grace is "conferred" from the beginning of a believers life all the way to eternity.

Grace is favor. When one is baptized into the name of Jesus he gets the favor of being born of water as in Acts 3:5.

Grace is conferred whether anyone responds or not.

Grace is a byproduct of the providence of God.

All exist through the gift of grace.

Amen.

Now that is the truth.

Grace is extended through lots of means. One of them is the acceptance of baptism. Grace can be extended and rejected. Grace can be extended and accpted. Grace is a "gentleman".

Re: Is Grace Conferred Through Jesus Name Baptism?
 

Excellent!

You mean I don't have to earn it? lol

Re: Is Grace Conferred Through Jesus Name Baptism?
 

This question has been pounded on in other threads. Do you think anything YOU DO saves you? Were the apostles baptized? Did their baptisms "save" them by grace or were they earnestly desiring to please God in a "washing" of repentance? This question matters, because it applies to US!
We know all the definitions of grace...the fact is that we are too proud to admit that our demands for soteriol baptism fall short of grace. We have been taught its essentiality for years for the wrong reasons. There is not ONE thing we have done or will ever do, INCLUDING being baptized that will merit God's grace.
Can you say, "UNLIMITED FAVOR"?
It's a tough pill for some to swallow...kinda like a camel.

Re: Is Grace Conferred Through Jesus Name Baptism?
 

I'd say affirm more than confer.

The realities of baptism are mystical, intense, symbolized re-enactments of God's Story -- subsequently, where the baptizee is putting themselves into that Story, walking the dirt roads, suffering and coming to resurrection with Jesus. It's a demarcation of discipleship. It's a beautiful proclamation of confession. It's a glorious affirmation of God to his children.

Re: Is Grace Conferred Through Jesus Name Baptism?
 

Sure

For ye are saved by grace through faith, not of works lest any man should boast.

How do we have faith in Jesus?

Repent and be baptized, that we may receive his Spirit.

Its simple.. why complicate it?

Re: Is Grace Conferred Through Jesus Name Baptism?
 

It's my opinion that Grace leads the convicted sinner to repentance through the power of the Holy Ghost. It's God's grace that leads that repentant soul into a life of obedience, empowerment, and blessing.... beginning with water baptism and the infilling of the Holy Ghost... pressing on into deepening levels of Christian spirituality and consecration. It's by grace from start to finish.

But those who turn away, do so despite the Spirit of grace.

Re: Is Grace Conferred Through Jesus Name Baptism?
 

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:" Ephesians 2:8

God graciously saved us through faith. IOW, without the GOODNESS of God and His benevolence towards mankind, noone could have access to salvation. He made it easy for us. We could have been required to go through all the functions and rituals as did the Jews, but those requirements are GONE.
Any and all requirements for grace are met through the exercize of faith. The exercize of faith concerns the spirit of man and conscious belief in the invisible God of Abraham. On this side of the cross that belief is in the revealed Son of God, Jesus Christ and in His fulfilled purpose and mission on the earth to include the gift of eternal life through belief in Him.

This has been covered in another thread, but if grace begins at baptism, then how do you explain Cornelius' experience where God filled him with the Holy Ghost?
The word "grace" simply means the graciousness of God. Are we using a buzz word or a scriptural definition? Grace has nothing to do with us. Grace is ALL about the love, patience and graciousness an absolutely perfect holy God has shown towards an absolutely imperfect unholy creation.

"I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ" 1 Corinthians 1:4

It is ALL in him.

That said, IMO, we are baptized in obedience to His word and to identify with His death as God has granted us grace through our faith. This faith was activated prior to baptism, therefore, grace was conferred prior to baptism, at the moment of belief.

Ro..4:1
"What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

Ro..4:2
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
If Abraham was justified by baptism, then he can glory, but not before God.

Ro..4:3
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
We are accounted as righteous SOLELY because GOD is gracious towards us, through our belief in Jesus Christ.

Ro 4:4
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt."
Baptism is a work of debt, iow, a debt of gratitude, but not a "work" of grace, since fallen humanity is incapable of doing any work of graciousness. Only GOD is capable of granting us the right (graciousness) to appropriate salvation, and He does it through faith and faith alone.

IMO, baptism confers no more grace than does any christian act of obedience, but rather reflects the grace of God conferred to us by faith.

Re: Is Grace Conferred Through Jesus Name Baptism?
 

Paul's opinion of baptism is different. When we are baptized we are put into Christ's death. Much more than obedient faith. Its an action required for us to die out to sin. That is done through his death, which we are put into by baptism.

Grace is conferred even before belief. Grace through faith is how grace becomes saving from our sins we have committed.

Re: Is Grace Conferred Through Jesus Name Baptism?
 

It goes without saying that God's graciousness is conferred before belief/faith. He was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. He has always been - from Adam to now - a gracious God.

I guess we need to agree on the difference between "conferring" and "appropriating" AND what your definition of the "grace" of God is.

We both quote Paul to justify our positions. What's your definition of GRACE?

If the grace I assume we are talking about is the grace of GOD, it pertains to His (uh oh!) nature/attribute of being gracious. Further, it has to do with a holy, perfect, gracious GOD that should by all rights destroy us but instead graciously allows us come to Him on the basis of faith.
Nothing you ever did including being baptized is a righteous enough work to appropriate His grace.
Think about it.

So what you are saying is that by your actions, (DOING something/baptism)you have "grace" conferred? IOW God owes it to you because of something YOU did?

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;" Titus 3:5
I will agree that baptism is a work of righteousness!

Note Paul says:
1. He saved us
2. He regenerated us
3. He renewed us

No matter your explanation of those points, it is clear that nothing will appropriate saving grace from the Lord Jesus except faith in Him and faith alone.

"...That no flesh should glory in his presence.

But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord."
1 Corinthians 1:29-31

Regenerative baptists always use their baptism as proof of salvation. Their legalism is no different from the Jews checking out Timothy making sure he qualified to enter the Temple. My point is that baptism is a work of righteousness, but nothing more.
You are not saved by what you do or have done, otherwise you'd be in a position to crow about it.
Grace is pictured best when seen through time on Calvary, with Jesus' broken body and blood given as the sacrifice for every man.
Now, THAT is grace conferred!
Luther I believe called it, "The Great Exchange".

It ain't what you did. It's what HE did that confers grace, through faith.

Re: Is Grace Conferred Through Jesus Name Baptism?
 

Good stuff SD too bad it does not sink in to some :thumbsup

Re: Is Grace Conferred Through Jesus Name Baptism?
 

Honestly I believe you are missing the entire teaching of Paul on baptism. Your belief that baptism is a work causes the aboved view, which is flawed in light of scripture.

Belief is something you DO by the way. Its not just a thought, you have to make the decision to believe in Jesus.

I don't see how me getting wet, puts me into Christ. It is the work of God that does that but Jesus does it THROUGH baptism. I can't change it, verses that say we are saved by grace through faith does not override that baptism places you into Christ's death. You should study what Martin Luther believed about baptism. Unless there are contradicting studies of his views, he beleived baptism was necessary and grace was conferred in that rite.

I don't see how anyone can crow about, Hey I got baptized and now I'm born again. Its nothing they do that did that, God did it through that rite..

The phrase by the washing of regeneration indicates what takes place in baptism.

Acts 22:16 continues this with what Ananias told Paul

He did not say wash away your sins by calling on the name of the Lord and then be baptized. It was included with his charge to him to be baptized.

Re: Is Grace Conferred Through Jesus Name Baptism?
 

I am glad it doesn't sink in, its not true doctrine in light of scripture. Faith is not something we have without DOING anything. If that was the case, man I would have been a believer before I actually made the choice to believe (which is something I HAD to DO)

Re: Is Grace Conferred Through Jesus Name Baptism?
 

I believe the sun will rise tomorrow, that the light will come on when I flip the light switch, that a hot stove will burn me, or if the gas guage on my truck reads empty that I'll be walking soon if I don't get a fill up. Whether I get out of bed at sunrise, turn on the light, decline to touch a hot stove or get gas in my vehicle only shows that I can RESPOND (a verb) to the cognitive function of belief. Baptism is a response to faith in Jesus Christ and all HE entails. You make the decades old mistake of putting some mystical quality to water baptism that doesn't exist.
It ain't holy water and it can't save you, confer more grace to you, or regenerate you. Of course you believe it, and if by doing it somehow satisfies your soterialogical points, more power to you.
The old black hymn "I know it was the blood" is totally right on!
"And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood," Revelation 1:5
"And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" Revelation 7:14

In an earlier post you said something about understanding Paul's opinion. It really sounds to me like you are quoting talking points. JMO

"For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified." 1 Corinthians 2:2
There's nothing about baptism here.

"For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
1 Corinthians 1:17
Paul makes a distinction-if you'll read the context-between baptism and the preached gospel. Paul CLEARLY explains in verse 18 that gospel he preached:

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God." 1 Corinthians 1:18
I respect your right to disagree, even though I think you are clearly wrong in YOUR opinion. It's ok, it's not too late to relearn (think Apollos and Aquila and Priscillla)! :bliss

You are equating faith/belief in the finished work of Jesus Christ as: faith + works = grace.

Just so you know, I'll say again for the record. I am "oneness", I preach repentance and baptism in Jesus' name. I preach living for God and the gospel of the kingdom of Jesus Christ. I hold the same apostolic positions as many of our forebears; there are MANY apostolics that hold the position I have presented here.
I'll add again that the differences between us and the ones leading to the merger of the PAJC and PCI aren't so many that we can't join arm and arm and battle for Jesus together.
I asked on another thread about Apostolic Unity and this discussion has only illustrated why there is such a lack of it.

Re: Is Grace Conferred Through Jesus Name Baptism?
 

And you have the right to be wrong that nothing happens in Baptism. My Bible tells me different and so does the entire history of the church up until the Protestant reformation where that doctrine of baptism is only the answer to faith originated. I understand you are oneness and I agree we can have unity but the bible cannot amen you saying nothing happens in baptism and neither would peter or Paul.

The verses you quote does not override Paul's teaching of Baptism in Romans 6 and Galatians 3. The context of that verse in Corinthians was unity, but that had division based ON WHO baptized them. Paul never taught baptism was not required to put one into Christ's death.

I fail to see how baptism is a work. please elaborate

You are right, I can relearn and I have over and over again. I'm not your typical apostolic who has accepted every doctrine in the UPCI. on the contrary I've questioned every doctrine and found the HG confirming the truth that what they teach concerning baptism is right and true. We must be born of the water and of the Spirit. We must be baptized to fulfill the example of christ and to go into his death.

Everyone on this forum, be ware of the doctrine that nothing happens in baptism. Its false.

The mistake many apostolics are making is saying the blood is applied at baptism. Thats nonsense in light of scripture. The blood is applied at repentance and a soul is justified before God at repentence. However in order to DIE to your sin, you must be buried with Jesus.



about Paul

"For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified." 1 Corinthians 2:2
There's nothing about baptism here.

"For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
1 Corinthians 1:17
Paul makes a distinction-if you'll read the context-between baptism and the preached gospel. Paul CLEARLY explains in verse 18 that gospel he preached:

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God." 1 Corinthians 1:18

Already comented on why Paul said these things.. please read the chapter but notice the bold. The people he is talking to are already baptized and already saved. Therefore he is not telling us to go around telling those who are lost, once you believe you are going to heaven!

Re: Is Grace Conferred Through Jesus Name Baptism?
 

The Apostle Peter said that baptism is not a literal washing away of filth/sin but is the response of a good conscience toward God.

Because we are saved, our sins have been washed away, and our conscience is clear with God we submit to the ritual of baptism as a public display of what has happened within and as a declaration that the old person is dead, so we are burying him, are now risen to walk in new life.

A couple of alternate readings to 1 Peter 3:21 are:

"in baptism we show that we have been saved from death and doom by the resurrection of Christ"
and
"Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you through the resurrection"

P.S. not every time the word "baptism" is found in the Bible does it have to the ritual of water baptism.

Re: Is Grace Conferred Through Jesus Name Baptism?
 

because we are saved.. What are we saved from? Sin? Hell? Again your definition of being saved is too broad. Salvation is a process, the bible teaches this.

Here are some verses on baptism

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

.Romans 6:3
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?


1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

All of the above verses point to the same thing aside from 1 Cor. 12:13 where it distinguishes the baptism of water and the baptism of the Spirit.

Baptism is how we are put into Christ's death. Repentance is how we are forgiven and Christ's blood is applied to us.

Re: Is Grace Conferred Through Jesus Name Baptism?
 

Romans 6, "even so we also should walk in newness of life"
Galatians 3, entire chapter is a refutation of works.
You asked me to elaborate on baptism, something I'd done for a few days now, but you don't get it.
As far as your comment,
"Everyone on this forum, be ware of the doctrine that nothing happens in baptism. Its false." Are you the pope or something? You must have some SERIOUS credentials.
Any student of the Bible understands the Jewish writing method of synthetic parallelisms, where the thought presented in a statement is reinforced or clarified by the second. Some great examples can be found in Psalms and the Song. Another example is found in John chapter 3. I do NOT follow the water/spirit born again theory presented by A.D. Urshan in that water baptism represents some kind of spiritual cleansing and is absolutely necessary for forgiveness of sins. If Urshan understood parallelisms he obviously did not think it applied to John 3.
What doth the scripture say?

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. John 3:5
Ok, what does Jesus mean by water? He explains it completely in the verse following:
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6
His comparison to the word water is clarified with the word flesh and makes a clear distinction between one birth and the other. One is born once, water/flesh, and then one is born again not of water, but of the spirit. Consider how Jesus further explained the mystery of being born again to a well-meaning but spiritually blind Nicodemus,
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. John 3:8
There is no mention of water in this statement. If water baptism was indeed part of the second birth Jesus would have said, "so is everyone that is born of the water and the Spirit". He didn't need to, because he had already made clear to Nicodemus what he meant in saying, "that which is born of the flesh is flesh." :hanky

If you don't understand parallelisms then I'd suggest some time studying what they are.

I could agree to disagree agreeably but right now you aren't capable of responding in kind. Your responses to someone disagreeing always fall along the lines that you know the truth and anyone not believing like YOU is wrong. A better spirit would help. :ranting

Re: Is Grace Conferred Through Jesus Name Baptism?
 

I don't want to sound harsh and apologize if it comes across that way.

Re: Is Grace Conferred Through Jesus Name Baptism?
 

Just wanted to add to your great comentary, the rest of Jesus coversation with Nicodemus, which by the way everyone seems to forget is part of the same converstion.
Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

context, context what everyone seems to want to forget in todays study of the word. We need to get back to simple expository study instead of this subject study that is so popular today.